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Tuesday, November 16, 2021

SF’s Kapler, Rays’ Cash named top managers

The Rays’ Kevin Cash was named the American League winner and the Giants’ Gabe Kapler the National League winner of the 2021 Manager of the Year Award by the Baseball Writers’ Association of America in results revealed Tuesday night on MLB Network.

Cash beat out finalists Dusty Baker (Astros) and Scott Servais (Mariners), while Kapler held off Craig Counsell (Brewers) and former Cardinals skipper Mike Shildt.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 16, 2021 at 07:34 PM | 10 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: gabe kapler, kevin cash

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   1. Cooper Nielson Posted: November 16, 2021 at 08:16 PM (#6053213)
National League results
Gabe Kapler, SF: 28 (first-place votes), 1 (second) -- 143 points
Craig Counsell, MIL: 1 (1st), 22 (2nd), 4 (3rd) -- 75
Mike Shildt, STL: 1 (1st), 3 (2nd), 11 (3rd) -- 25
Brian Snitker, ATL: 4 (2nd), 9 (3rd) -- 21
Dave Roberts, LAD: 6 (3rd) --


This is a silly and generally meaningless award, but it seems like they should include the postseason. Kapler's fine at the top, but Shildt was fired and Snitker won a World Series. I dunno... which guy had a better year?
   2. Greg Pope Posted: November 16, 2021 at 08:51 PM (#6053219)
which guy had a better year?

Manager of the year is more or less "Which team exceeded our preseason expectations the most?".
   3. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: November 16, 2021 at 09:15 PM (#6053227)
I assume MotY is like other awards and all votes have to be in before the post-season starts. Kapler is a reasonable choice. I think the Cash vote is a bit dismissive to how good Tampa Bay is. That is a really good team which isn’t a dismissal of Cash at all but I don’t think they particularly overachieved.

For me I’d have voted for Servais and I think a guy who really deserves a lot of credit is Hinch. After a pretty rough start they were over .500 after April and I don’t think the Tigers are that talented. Of course Hinch has the same problem getting votes that Cora presumably had.
   4. The Honorable Ardo Posted: November 16, 2021 at 11:13 PM (#6053252)
It's not a particularly meaningful award. As already stated, Snitker would rank ahead of Kapler after the postseason. And the AL's best two managers this year were pretty clearly Cora and Hinch, who weren't going to get chosen.
   5. SoSH U at work Posted: November 16, 2021 at 11:31 PM (#6053256)
Manager of the year is more or less "Which team exceeded our preseason expectations the most?".


Based on preseason projections, that would be the Mariners, followed by the Rays in the AL.

The Giants were runaway leaders in the NL, and likely turned in the most overachieving performance of the 21st century (they were projected to finish below .500)

And, with some exceptions (like when a mid-season hire turns things around, such as Trader Jack in Miami or Tracy in Colorado), basing the award on the team that best exceed projections seems perfectly reasonable.

   6. Tom Nawrocki Posted: November 17, 2021 at 12:20 AM (#6053259)
I thought the postseason was a crapshoot.
   7. Jay Seaver Posted: November 17, 2021 at 10:19 AM (#6053274)
with some exceptions (like when a mid-season hire turns things around, such as Trader Jack in Miami or Tracy in Colorado), basing the award on the team that best exceed projections seems perfectly reasonable.


That kind of makes the award not "which manager is the best", but "where was I most wrong in my initial assessment?" Like, if you initially projected the Dodgers to finish high in part because you think Roberts is a good manager and you dinged the Giants because you didn't think Kapler was, the end result doesn't mean Kapler outperformed Roberts, just that the initial assessment was wrong.
   8. SoSH U at work Posted: November 17, 2021 at 10:45 AM (#6053277)
That kind of makes the award not "which manager is the best", but "where was I most wrong in my initial assessment?"


Hardly. There are multiple projection systems designed for this very thing, which we refer to all the time. It shouldn't be about what the voter thought would happen, but the general consensus.

Before the season, Fangraphs pegged the Giants at 75 wins. BPro did the same. They won 32 more games than that. Did you expect that? Did anyone see anything remotely like that happening?
   9. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 17, 2021 at 11:01 AM (#6053280)
Heard this on a radio show the other day, but why is there no "Most Improved Player" in baseball like there is in the NBA? There's Comeback Player of the Year, and it seems like they've added a bunch of new awards. But I think big jumps in performance should be rewarded.

Also, quit dragging it out and announcing this on weekdays in November. Make this a big awards show like the NHL does.
   10. A triple short of the cycle Posted: November 17, 2021 at 02:44 PM (#6053314)
Pretty amazing turnaround by Kapler.
Will be interesting to see how the Giants do next year. Hard to project, yes? I can see them back to under 500.

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