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Tuesday, December 13, 2022

Shohei Ohtani and MLB take hit over FTX ties - Los Angeles Times

I find it difficult to blame MLB because of their association with FTX. A lot of people were taken in by the filmflam.

Manfred was asked whether that lack of regulation should give the league any pause in engaging with cryptocurrency entities.

“Obviously, the FTX development was a little jarring,” he said. “We have been really careful in moving forward in this space. We’ve been really religious about staying away from coins themselves, as opposed to more company-based sponsorships. We think that was prudent, particularly given the way things unfolded.

“We will, I think, proceed in caution in the future.”

That would indeed be prudent, lest the drive for sponsorship revenue overtake the diligence in exploring every allegedly revolutionary outfit dangling millions before baseball’s owners. As of Thursday, Ohtani’s reputation had been dinged, and the MLB website still included FTX among the league’s 38 official sponsors.

jimfurtado Posted: December 13, 2022 at 10:29 AM | 34 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mlb

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   1. Transmission Posted: December 13, 2022 at 11:31 AM (#6109335)
A lot of people were taken in, sure, but also a lot of other people weren't. It's worth it for MLB, Ohtani's people, and everyone else taken in to think about where they went wrong when others got it right. Clearly Manfred hadn't "been really careful."


Looking at the current MLB list of sponsors, they've delisted FTX. If we're draft-picking the next corporate sponsor to cause MLB a headache, I think Roman is a breakout sleeper candidate.
   2. reech Posted: December 13, 2022 at 11:50 AM (#6109336)
Jeepers...I hope the Hall Of Fame "moral police" voters don't hold this against Ohtani when he's up for election!
Thoughts and prayers!
   3. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: December 13, 2022 at 11:51 AM (#6109337)

Does any of this really cause a headache for MLB or Ohtani, other than the legal costs?

MLB has never been particularly careful or diligent in terms of who they associate with, other than (historically) gambling interests. I find it amusing that the article mentions Enron but doesn't note that Enron had also sponsored an MLB stadium.
   4. KronicFatigue Posted: December 13, 2022 at 12:15 PM (#6109339)
There's an infinite number of ways to invest and an equally infinite number of potential advertisors. It seems absolutely wild that people are willing to dip their toes (or jump fully in) in such a risky situation.

Even if I believed in crypto (i most definitely DO NOT), I'd still choose making a little less money with the "next best" investment. Crypto wants to name my stadium? Um, what's the "next best" offer? Let's just go with that.
   5. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 13, 2022 at 12:36 PM (#6109341)
Even if I believed in crypto (i most definitely DO NOT), I'd still choose making a little less money with the "next best" investment. Crypto wants to name my stadium? Um, what's the "next best" offer? Let's just go with that.

If they pay up front in real cash, who cares if your sponsor goes bust? You can sell the remaining term to the 2nd best offer.
   6. Lassus Posted: December 13, 2022 at 12:57 PM (#6109347)
“Obviously, the FTX development was a little jarring,”

No, it wasn't.
   7. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: December 13, 2022 at 01:13 PM (#6109349)
MLB has never been particularly careful or diligent in terms of who they associate with, other than (historically) gambling interests.


It isn't a gamble when you have virtually no chance of winning.
   8. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: December 13, 2022 at 01:21 PM (#6109350)
If they pay up front in real cash, who cares if your sponsor goes bust? You can sell the remaining term to the 2nd best offer.


Well there is a PR hit but I'm with you. If you are selling naming rights, take the money and run. The company goes bust? Find someone else.
   9. Walt Davis Posted: December 13, 2022 at 01:39 PM (#6109354)
what's the "next best" offer?

Land Shark Stadium says hello. :-)

We’ve been really religious about staying away from coins themselves, as opposed to more company-based sponsorships.

I read this as "we weren't going to take the rubes' money directly." Yet gambling parlors in the stadium are OK. And "Candy is Major League Baseball's official NFT ecosystem."

(How the game has changed ... I'm pretty sure Candy used to be one of Grace's slumpbusters.)
   10. McCoy Posted: December 13, 2022 at 01:58 PM (#6109356)
Re4. The issue is that Crypto wasn't really playing with real money or at least with money they were legally allowed to play with. So the sky was the limit.

The Miami Heat deal seems to be generous for the team.
   11. vortex of dissipation Posted: December 13, 2022 at 03:41 PM (#6109388)
From the class action lawsuit document linked in the article:

26. Defendant Shohei Ohtani, a professional baseball pitcher, designated hitter and outfielder for the Los Angeles Angels of the MLB and a brand ambassador for FTX, is a citizen and resident of the State of California.


As far as I know, Ohtani is a Japanese citizen - he's certainly playing for Japan in the WBC. If he has become a US citizen, as this seems to imply, I somehow missed it...

   12. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: December 13, 2022 at 03:55 PM (#6109394)
I was walking down the main street at lunchtime in a bustling downtown yesterday, when a guy with a camera crew stopped and asked if I'd answer a few questions as part of a documentary they were doing. I was skeptical, and when I asked what the documentary was about, they said it was about where cryptocurrency was in the public's mind after all the ups and downs of the last few years, etc, etc.

I told them I was probably not their person, in that I know very little about it, and have nothing intelligent to add. They insisted I would be a really good person to ask, given that I was well-dressed, obviously coming out of a business lunch, etc.

So I said this: "I have never seen a topic in public and economic policy where I've actually tried to read numerous articles, and listened to many interviews and podcasts about it, and always feel more confused at the end of the piece than I was at the beginning."

He was like, "Would you be interested in learning more about crypto?"

I said, "I have zero interest in investing more time in the topic. I'm going to use my time to make sure I understand how best to earn, spend, and invest in regular currency. Good luck on your documentary."

I doubt any of these athletes and other celebrities knew jack #### about cryptocurrency. I don't think they did anything remotely criminal here...but I do think you should know something about the product before you promote it. This strikes me as a little bit more like if Ohtani had been a big promoter of pets.com or something back in the 1990s.


   13. The Duke Posted: December 13, 2022 at 04:10 PM (#6109400)
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2022-the-crypto-story/?leadSource=uverify wall

I don't know if this link works but there is a writer at Bloomberg who did a great crypto 101. It will take several sittings to get through it all but well worth the read. No revelations but it helps you understand how the whole ecosystem works and is especially helpful in understanding the "mining " of Bitcoin and the logic of the FTXs of the world.

I won't spoil it but........it's a fraud. You all knew that
   14. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: December 13, 2022 at 05:25 PM (#6109419)
I'd still choose making a little less money with the "next best" investment.

MLB's sudden love affair with Big Gambling would seem to indicate there are no remaining dollars that are too risky or dirty or scandalous for the league to sell itself out to.
   15. Walt Davis Posted: December 13, 2022 at 06:11 PM (#6109425)
Or, essentially equivalently, there's insufficient interest from others. Those of us who live outside the US have seen this public link between sports and gambling for a long time now. Sports betting, pay TV, alcohol, fast food and whatever the "cultural" equivalent of greenwashing is are the source of probably 99% of sports sponsorship (whether directly to the team or via TV advertising). And "we" are no longer willing to watch ads or pay exorbitant cable fees so they are increasingly challenged to find other revenue sources. What are the "morally clean" untapped revenue sources?
   16. a brief article regarding 57i66135 Posted: December 13, 2022 at 06:50 PM (#6109430)
Well there is a PR hit but I'm with you. If you are selling naming rights, take the money and run. The company goes bust? Find someone else.

this statement is brought to you by enron field.
   17. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: December 13, 2022 at 07:00 PM (#6109431)
16 - Heh, I almost mentioned Enron in my original post.
   18. The Duke Posted: December 13, 2022 at 09:28 PM (#6109439)
Enron was doing a lot of interesting things. They had real businesses everywhere unlike crypto which, by and large, has no connection to the real world. I was trading derivatives during Enrons hey day and they were the market maker for an entire industry of energy derivatives. That market never returned post Enron which made the whole energy industry more risky. They were run by a bunch of crooks but had a lot of innovative stuff going on.

Crypto doesn't really have a recent analogue. Madoff was small potatoes compared to crypto. Maybe the tulip craze in Holland. It's amazing to me that no one, even today, can simply explain what this trillion dollar industry does.
   19. Adam Starblind Posted: December 13, 2022 at 09:55 PM (#6109442)
That, or provide a set of audited consolidated financial statements for their company.
   20. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: December 14, 2022 at 02:26 AM (#6109451)

I work in finance and have read books/listened to podcasts on crypto. It has always seemed to me like an overly complicated (while technically interesting to this former computer science/math student) solution to something that wasn’t really a problem. I can understand why some people don’t like the centralized and heavily regulated financial system but we are now seeing that regulation and centralized control has some benefits. In the end, crypto hasn’t solved the problems it aimed to and it has introduced plenty of others that make it unusable as a currency IMO.

As to what it actually does, we’ll it’s basically been a closed system for speculators and certain criminals, with little connection to the broader economy. As I have noted before, the total value of all cryptocurrency has gone up 250% and down 75% multiple times in the past year with almost no wider impact. If it all goes away tomorrow few people will notice.
   21. Rally Posted: December 14, 2022 at 08:34 AM (#6109457)
This strikes me as a little bit more like if Ohtani had been a big promoter of pets.com or something back in the 1990s.


One of my favorites from the Grand Theft Auto commercials.

Little bundles of love, in a box, directly to your door.
   22. The Duke Posted: December 14, 2022 at 08:44 AM (#6109460)
The legacy of crypto will be the creation of digital national currencies. There's a massive desire by greedy, rapacious govts to have complete control and visibility into, what are now, cash transactions. It's the last part of life that the govt doesn't completely control. It's still far away because the security required makes the mass usage very difficult to attain.
   23. Lassus Posted: December 14, 2022 at 09:52 AM (#6109465)
Crypto doesn't really have a recent analogue. Madoff was small potatoes compared to crypto. Maybe the tulip craze in Holland. It's amazing to me that no one, even today, can simply explain what this trillion dollar industry does.

Have any of you crypto-curious, crypto-bewildered folks watched LINE GOES UP? It's pretty amazing. Yes, it's two hours and twenty minutes, and yes it has a position, but it really helps. I mean, not that I understand it now, but... it does help.

Line Goes up - the Problem with NFTs
   24. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: December 14, 2022 at 10:26 AM (#6109472)
Generally speaking, if you have an idea for a new product or service, and you cannot explain clearly and concisely what it is, and why it delivers value, then it probably is not going to work out.

This is true for even the most technically-complicated innovations. On some level, most new innovations do one of a few things:

1) Make something cheaper
2) Make something smaller/lighter
3) Make something faster/more convenient/simpler

Successful innovations give you back some of your time or money, or improve the enjoyment you get from your time or money.

Can somebody explain to me, like I am a child, how cryptocurrency legitimately does this?
   25. . . . . . . Posted: December 14, 2022 at 10:47 AM (#6109474)
If they pay up front in real cash, who cares if your sponsor goes bust? You can sell the remaining term to the 2nd best offer.


fwiw, this is incorrect. if your sponsor goes bust and paid upfront, you may be stuck with the name for a while or have to give value back to the sponsor. As the City of Miami is currently learning.
   26. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: December 14, 2022 at 12:22 PM (#6109494)
Can somebody explain to me, like I am a child, how cryptocurrency legitimately does this?

Well, there are real problems that crypto theoretically aims to solve. It can enable near-instantaneous transfer of funds, even across borders. Anyone who's had to wait several days (or longer) for a check or an ACH to clear, or had to pay significant foreign exchange fees to make a cross-border payment, should appreciate that.

Central banks can print money and devalue fiat currencies (as we've seen during periods of high inflation). Theoretically, again, a cryptocurrency can be decentralized and have rules built in to prevent that kind of unilateral increase in monetary supply.

That being said, there are other reasons why crypto in its current form isn't a particularly good solution to these issues. Decentralization has not prevented massive valuation swings in cryptocurrencies. Who cares if I'm saving a bit in FX fees, for example, if the currency itself can go down 5% or more in a day?
   27. Ron J Posted: December 14, 2022 at 01:43 PM (#6109506)
#23 Let me second that. Been a fan of his stuff for years.
   28. The Duke Posted: December 14, 2022 at 05:01 PM (#6109546)
24. It's not designed to settle any problem. The concept that we will create a limited amount of currency and not inflate it politically already exists, more or less, with gold. Because it can't grow (other than the smallest amounts mined each year) it will become scarce and become valued for its scarcity, not its usefulness as a means to enable transactions.

It is not cheap - Mining bitcoins is a massive cost to the world and an environmental disaster

It is not faster than using cash or credit cards. This is the issue Venmo, Apple Pay and PayPal and Zelle all have - it's really easy to use cash and credit cards. How do you convince people to switch - what's the catch ? People stopped using checks because they were time consuming and complex. Cash/credit cards? Not so much.

It may have a niche roll in replacing western union as a cross border tool replacing banks but unlikely to me. The very worst feature of Bitcoin is that it acts as a bearer bond. You cant ask anyone to stop a transaction like you can with a credit card or check or wren direct debit or wire transfer. When you hit "send" the money is gone forever. This is why it's useful to criminals.

   29. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: December 14, 2022 at 05:41 PM (#6109552)
It is not faster than using cash or credit cards.

It can be a lot faster than using either one, except when you're using cash for a small, in-person transaction.

The very worst feature of Bitcoin is that it acts as a bearer bond. You cant ask anyone to stop a transaction like you can with a credit card or check or wren direct debit or wire transfer. When you hit "send" the money is gone forever. This is why it's useful to criminals.

Yes, exactly. It's faster. But it's not very user friendly. And that speed comes with additional risks, as you noted.

That being said, checks and credit cards have a risk of theft/fraud as well. But there is a whole industry that has evolved around preventing it.

PS please stop making me defend crypto :)
   30. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: December 14, 2022 at 05:41 PM (#6109553)
MLB IN FTX NOT OK, MR PRESIDENT
   31. a brief article regarding 57i66135 Posted: December 15, 2022 at 10:54 AM (#6109602)
here's a fun paragraph:

In the weeks since the bankruptcy filings of FTX, the associated hedge fund Alameda Research, and other entities, Bitcoin maxis of various stripes have tried to tilt the narrative in their favor. “FTX Pain Is Bitcoin’s Gain,” wrote early cryptocurrency investor Vincent Ventures. Personal-finance personality Robert Kiyosaki said on his podcast that he “remain[s] bullish on Bitcoin” because “it’s not bitcoin that’s the problem—it’s FTX.” High-profile tech investor Cathie Wood, who’s been losing money on her shares in publicly traded crypto companies, told CNBC that Bitcoin will continue to rise in value and even “benefit” from the FTX debacle. The CEO and founder of the company Swan Bitcoin thinks all the trouble in the crypto space this year will actually be good for Bitcoin, since it’ll clear out some of the competition. Bitcoin Magazine ran an opinion piece just days after the FTX-Alameda bankruptcy, touting its namesake currency as a means to “put the most distance between your assets and the fraud.” Even NBC News published such an op-ed, authored by a University of Mississippi economics associate professor: “Crypto has become a space dominated by get-rich-quick-schemes. Whatever this crypto industry is, most Bitcoin and Bitcoiners want no part of it.” The head of the Texas Blockchain Council gave a talk referring to the FTX fiasco as a “debt supercycle” that could be ended only by turning to Bitcoin principles. And the financial broadcaster Max Keiser tweeted that there was an explicit contrast between “the criminal enterprises of FTX” and the “thriving” of El Salvador, thanks to the Latin American nation’s use of Bitcoin as legal tender as opposed to other “scam” coins. (Some might disagree with that characterization of the Salvadoran Bitcoin experiment!)

   32. a brief article regarding 57i66135 Posted: December 15, 2022 at 11:15 AM (#6109604)
oh, and here's some fun logic for you:

Steven Lubka, a business commentator who works for Swan Bitcoin (which, as he made clear to me, “does not touch crypto”), identified a turning point in 2018’s crypto crash, which was fueled in large part through an ICO bubble. “I got into Bitcoin after losing money on ICOs,” he said. “That’s how Bitcoiners oftentimes get made: They were burned by crypto, like in 2018.”

and this:
“If you’re gonna be skeptical of Bitcoin, be skeptical because of what Bitcoin is—not because of what crypto did,” Lubka told me. “I don’t want people to see FTX and say, ‘Bitcoin is no good.’ ”
   33. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: December 15, 2022 at 03:15 PM (#6109637)
If they pay up front in real cash, who cares if your sponsor goes bust? You can sell the remaining term to the 2nd best offer.

I doubt they're paying it all up front.
   34. Zach Posted: December 15, 2022 at 07:34 PM (#6109658)
Line Goes up - the Problem with NFTs

While on vacation in Times Square last summer, I saw about six separate NFTs being advertised in heavy rotation on the giant video billboards.

Never has it been so easy to call the top of a bubble.

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