Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, September 20, 2006

S.I. Verducci: A-Rod Agonistes

A-Rod…in blankety blank verse.

Before Giambi went to Torre, he had scolded Rodriguez after a 13-5 win in Boston on Aug. 19. Irked that Rodriguez left four runners on base in the first three innings against a shaky Josh Beckett, Giambi thought A-Rod needed to be challenged. “We’re all rooting for you and we’re behind you 100 percent,” Giambi recalls telling Rodriguez, “but you’ve got to get the big hit.”

“What do you mean?” was Rodriguez’s response, according to Giambi. “I’ve had five hits in Boston.”

“You f———call those hits?” Giambi said. “You had two f———dinkers to rightfield and a ball that bounced over the third baseman! Look at how many pitches you missed!

Repoz Posted: September 20, 2006 at 01:38 AM | 239 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: yankees

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 2 of 3 pages  < 1 2 3 > 
   101. Danny Posted: September 20, 2006 at 02:49 PM (#2182931)
Was Verducci supposed to leave those things out, once they were said to him? That would have been grossly irresponsible.

The question is whether he left quotes out, anonymous or not, that would have balanced some of the criticisms. We don't know whether this happened.
   102. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: September 20, 2006 at 02:51 PM (#2182933)
He's been kicking ass in a month when the pennat race is over. A-Rod sucked when it mattered this year.

Shut up. My point is, if it was a mechanical flaw, he seems to be working his way out of it nicely. BTW, did the Games in May not matter? Look at Giambi's month to month OPS while you're at it.
   103. BDC Posted: September 20, 2006 at 02:53 PM (#2182935)
The biggest problem with AROD this year has been his defense; he has been so Knoblauchian out there that it's impossible to overlook. If he had managed to drive in 116 runs without drawing attention to himself at third base, we would just hear the usual low level of "sure he hit 57 home runs, but not in pinstripes when it matters" nonsense. Everybody strikes out, after all, but not everybody visibly fails at playing catch and keeping track of where the baseball is.
   104. Sam M. Posted: September 20, 2006 at 02:55 PM (#2182939)
The question is whether he left quotes out, anonymous or not, that would have balanced some of the criticisms. We don't know whether this happened.

I will guarantee you that if he did, someone (soon) will come forward and rip him for that, and then (if it's accurate, and not just someone trying to play CYA) fine -- he'll deserve that particular criticism. In the meantime, to jump on Verducci for including what was said? Let's just kill the messenger, shall we?

As for Giambi, like it or not, this article shows quite clearly that Torre regards him as an important indicator of the pulse of his clubhouse. It was when Giambi expressed exasperation with A-Rod that Torre realized/believed his approach wasn't working, and he changed things. That tells you something important about the internal workings of that team, totally apart from the whole A-Rod thing.
   105. JC in DC Posted: September 20, 2006 at 02:55 PM (#2182941)
I too thought the article was good, I too think it's nonsense to call Giambi a jerk, I too think this is fascinating human interest stuff, and I too think that A-Rod is a fragile, and difficult, teammate, and it doesn't surprise me that he hurts teams (in some ways) despite his excellent numbers.

Danny's point in 87 is laughably inane.
   106. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: September 20, 2006 at 02:55 PM (#2182942)
Maybe Mo feels somewhat responsible for A-Rod's demonization. After all, if Mo gets three outs in Game 4 of the 2004 ALCS, A-Rod is a superclutch hero of the playoffs, having helped carry the Yankees through not one, but TWO rounds. The Yankees never choke. The Red Sox never win the World Series. A-Rod goes out and wins the MVP in 2005, and by that point his mediocre performance in the ALDS is just a drop in the bucket of his achievements.
   107. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: September 20, 2006 at 02:59 PM (#2182946)
I too thought the article was good, I too think it's nonsense to call Giambi a jerk, I too think this is fascinating human interest stuff, and I too think that A-Rod is a fragile, and difficult, teammate, and it doesn't surprise me that he hurts teams (in some ways) despite his excellent numbers.

Danny's point in 87 is laughably inane.


How ironic.
   108. Danny Posted: September 20, 2006 at 03:00 PM (#2182947)
I find it shocking that anyone thinks Giambi is a beacon of clutchness and integrity.

Giambi is pretty much the definition of clutch, and I'd be interested to see his WPA numbers in 2000-2001 compared to Ortiz's from the last couple years. Tangotiger recognized Giambi as the clutchiest clutcher in baseball in his clutch study.

Giambi's career:
Bases empty: .270/.383/.500
Runners on: .316/.445/.587
RunnersISP: .305/.446/.586

He was the Yanks second best hitter (Posada) in the ALCS against the Red Sox and in the WS against the Marlins (Bernie) in 2003. He was great against the Angels in the ALDS twice, and against the Yanks once. I agree with the integrity stuff, I guess.
   109. Sam M. Posted: September 20, 2006 at 03:01 PM (#2182948)
After all, if Mo gets three outs in Game 4 of the 2004 ALCS, A-Rod is a superclutch hero of the playoffs, having helped carry the Yankees through not one, but TWO rounds. The Yankees never choke. The Red Sox never win the World Series. A-Rod goes out and wins the MVP in 2005, and by that point his mediocre performance in the ALDS is just a drop in the bucket of his achievements.

You know what's sad about that? Even if all of that happens, A-Rod's fate really wouldn't have been all that different than it has been, unless you add in one more element: the Yankees also win the 2004 World Series. Without a RING to validate him in a lot of eyes, everything else is just not enough.

One ring to rule them all . . . .
   110. Danny Posted: September 20, 2006 at 03:02 PM (#2182950)
Danny's point in 87 is laughably inane.
How so?
   111. Boots Day Posted: September 20, 2006 at 03:18 PM (#2182966)
Clearly he's still having a very good season relative to the other 3b around baseball.

Rodriguez: .286/.385/.517
Third baseman A: .338/.429/.572
Third baseman B: .308/.391/.529
Third baseman C: .291/.352/.554
Third baseman D: .302/.374/.531
Third baseman E: .328/.402/.559

There are plenty of third basemen who are just as good as A-Rod, if not better. Somehow, when the Yankees traded for him, I doubt they were saying, "Yay! We got someone who can measure up with Garrett Atkins [who is Third Baseman E up there]!"
   112. schuey Posted: September 20, 2006 at 03:18 PM (#2182967)
ARod comes out of this even more frail and disjointed then I thought he was. He knows all these stats about a slump 4 years ago but can't recall a conversation with Giambi a month ago. He refuses to call a slump a slump. A Rod could come up big when the real Yankee season starts in October. But right now I have lot more confidence in Jeter, Matsui and Damon than Mr $252 million.

Derek Jeter: the greatest player ever. The greatest man since Jesus.
   113. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: September 20, 2006 at 03:28 PM (#2182973)
Rodriguez: .286/.385/.517
Third baseman A: .338/.429/.572
Third baseman B: .308/.391/.529
Third baseman C: .291/.352/.554
Third baseman D: .302/.374/.531
Third baseman E: .328/.402/.559

There are plenty of third basemen who are just as good as A-Rod, if not better. Somehow, when the Yankees traded for him, I doubt they were saying, "Yay! We got someone who can measure up with Garrett Atkins [who is Third Baseman E up there]!"


I don't see how any of that undermines my point.
   114. DCA Posted: September 20, 2006 at 03:33 PM (#2182975)
Danny's point in 87 is laughably inane.

How so?


I wouldn't call it inane, but the Yankees were only 14-12 that month, and struggling to even be .500 for much of the month. Slumping while not winning as much as expected is different that just slumping if winning is all that really matters.
   115. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 20, 2006 at 03:34 PM (#2182976)
Derek Jeter: the greatest player ever. The greatest man since Jesus.

I like him very much , but he no help with curve ball.
   116. Francoeur Sans Gages (AlouGoodbye) Posted: September 20, 2006 at 03:35 PM (#2182977)
A: Miggy Cabrera
B: David Wright?
C: Aramis Ramirez
D: Rolen
E: Garret Atkins
   117. DCA Posted: September 20, 2006 at 03:35 PM (#2182979)
There are plenty of third basemen who are just as good as A-Rod, if not better. Somehow, when the Yankees traded for him, I doubt they were saying, "Yay! We got someone who can measure up with Garrett Atkins [who is Third Baseman E up there]!"

If it is accepted that Garrett Aktins is a 960 OPS hitter, then I would say something a lot more enthusiastic than "Yay! We got someone who can measure up with Garrett Atkins!" if my team went out and got one.
   118. Danny Posted: September 20, 2006 at 03:42 PM (#2182985)
I wouldn't call it inane, but the Yankees were only 14-12 that month, and struggling to even be .500 for much of the month. Slumping while not winning as much as expected is different that just slumping if winning is all that really matters.

But A-Rod was singled out because of his numbers. And an 87 win pace for a month is far from disastrous.

It's just a silly argument because "winning is all that matters" is a team concept much more than an individual one. A-Rod "only caring about his numbers" wouldn't have been an issue if his numbers were still great.
   119. Kyle S Posted: September 20, 2006 at 03:43 PM (#2182987)
Chipper is missing from that list as well. Although he has missed a lot of time this year, he's still sitting at .318/.401/.574
   120. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 20, 2006 at 03:44 PM (#2182990)
Rodriguez: .286/.385/.517
Third baseman A: .338/.429/.572
Third baseman B: .308/.391/.529
Third baseman C: .291/.352/.554
Third baseman D: .302/.374/.531
Third baseman E: .328/.402/.559

There are plenty of third basemen who are just as good as A-Rod, if not better.

It should be remembered that this is a bad Alex Rodriguez season, and in his "bad" season, he's one of the best third basemen around, and clearly the best third baseman in the American League.
   121. Randy Jones Posted: September 20, 2006 at 03:48 PM (#2182991)
There are plenty of third basemen who are <s>just as good as</s> having a better season than A-Rod.

fixed.
   122. Deacon Blues Posted: September 20, 2006 at 03:57 PM (#2183002)
Shut up. My point is, if it was a mechanical flaw, he seems to be working his way out of it nicely. BTW, did the Games in May not matter? Look at Giambi's month to month OPS while you're at it.


Of course the games in May matter, and I'm not disputing that A-Rod is the most talented player on the Yankees and the best when he's right. I'm not saying Giambi is a pardigm of integrity and class. But to completely dismiss what Giambi said because he "took steroids" and it's negative toward A-Rod (who now that Bonds is down, is everyone's favorite person to support simply b/c the NY press skewers him) is silly. Giambi is very well-liked and respected by his teammates and opponents and he has every right to say something to A-Rod or Torre (in private, i'm not agreeing with his going public). In any work environment, if someone is not performing their best, and then acts like nothing is wrong, doesn't take the necessary steps to fix it, and simply points out that they're still doing better than person Y, that is a horseshit move. In any work place, that person would be fileted. And rightfully so. That's exactly what's happened here. A-Rod had an awful year, was letting his teammates down, and his response was to point out he was still doing better than others, stubbornly not do anything to fix it, and act like nothing was wrong. THAT is a problem. Is it worse than steroids? I don't think so, but that's really not the point is it?
   123. rico vanian Posted: September 20, 2006 at 03:57 PM (#2183004)
can we get back to the issue at hand?
which is...


Jeter getting no props for his MVP year.
   124. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: September 20, 2006 at 04:00 PM (#2183008)
It should be remembered that this is a bad Alex Rodriguez season, and in his "bad" season, he's one of the best third basemen around, and clearly the best third baseman in the American League.

Right. He's not one of the top 3-4 3B in baseball this year, no question. But he's still very good (top quarter), and that's in a terrible year.
   125. Deacon Blues Posted: September 20, 2006 at 04:05 PM (#2183013)
I think it's important to note the distinction that nowhere do the other yankees get on rodriguez for "poor stats" they are on him for his attitude toward his struggles, a seeming inability to acknowledge that he's struggling at all.
   126. Hexx Posted: September 20, 2006 at 04:06 PM (#2183014)
stubbornly not do anything to fix it

WTF???? Even this hatchet job of an article acknowledges that A-rod "works too hard", taking "45 minutes of batting practice after the game that day" Fine, Mattingly says that A-rod isn't listening, but isn't A-rod offered some benefit of the doubt that he can work his own way out of it? And, it's not like he's the first person in history who looks good in practice, but loses his mechanics in game situations. The difference is, A-rod's character is skewered because of it. Giambi's bat is slow and his swing is way too long right now, I guess he's "letting the team down"
   127. BTF's left-wing cheering section (formerly_dp) Posted: September 20, 2006 at 04:07 PM (#2183015)
We are in a golden age of 3B- we haven't seen what Marte can do, Gordon is still in the minors, Zimmerman is just coming on, and there are guys who may have to be moved off of the position b/c of the talent in line ahead of them (Ian Stewart, Gordon?). And Glaus, Blalock and Crede are still fairly young. Far cry from a few years ago when 3B were hitting like 2B.
   128. Deacon Blues Posted: September 20, 2006 at 04:11 PM (#2183019)
Hexx,

maybe I stressed that point too much and read too much into what Mattingly had said. That is fair. But what on earth do Giambi's struggles have to do with whether or not A-Rod was ticking people off with the way he was dealing with his struggles?
   129. Hexx Posted: September 20, 2006 at 04:17 PM (#2183022)
I guess I was pointing out a double standard that exists with A-rod, one that other posters have also pointed out, of course. I have no idea how Giambi is handling this slump so I have no reason to criticize. Of course, if Giambi didn't go spouting off, I wouldn't have known how A-rod handles it (or at least, his teammates perception of it)

If someone is working hard to fix it, but tried too hard to be diplomatic and nice, and that's annoying his teammates, then that's his teammates' issue.
   130. Joey B. is counting the days to Trea Turner Posted: September 20, 2006 at 04:18 PM (#2183026)
I gotta say I really like ARod. I can't imagine that I would act any differently if I were in his situation. (Or at least I hope I wouldn't.) To confront this stuff would be to acknowledge it. My guess is he is quite an intelligent guy and simply (and correctly) considers himself far above all the Mikeandmaddoggery (to say nothing of the Millarlike Giambi.) Why his reticence is taken as sanctimoniousness is beyond me.

Being booed by fans and and talk radio hosts and callers is one thing entirely. But being called out by your own teammates, for attribution in some cases, is indicative of a serious problem that goes far beyond not getting a couple more "clutch hits". It's silly to deny it.

And Jason Giambi, for all of his faults and transgressions, is one of the most well-liked players in the game by his peers. Alex Rodriguez, well, not quite so much.
   131. base ball chick Posted: September 20, 2006 at 04:28 PM (#2183038)
what is going on with arod sound a whole lot like what happened to morgan ensberg this year. the slump, swinging, all that

except that his teammates don't rip him to the national media and the national media don't know the astros even exist.

but i am positive that phil wants mo offm the team and he gonna go to the pads or dodgers and win the mvp and THEN he gonna get slammed here by the local writers for dogging it or something

- there something serious bullstuff about byttching that a guy dont wanna "talk" bout his slump even though he trying like heck to do everything he can to work out of it.

not that i luuuuvvvvv arod but i am tired of he got too much arrogance or is it not enough arrogance or something.

me if i was the rod and giambi say something to me i say - fu*k off you roid shooting CHEATER you never done nothing here.

interesting that a known roid user is so "liked" - here and i thought guys were supposed to despise roid users
   132. Deacon Blues Posted: September 20, 2006 at 04:44 PM (#2183053)
Hexx,

You raise some good points. I have no idea how Giambi has handled his struggles. For all I know, he handled them as badly as ARod did, but we have no evidence to that effect. There is clearly substantial evidence that A-Rod's teammates were not happy with the way that he handled his. That's really the central issue of the story. As outsiders, it's tough for us to really know what is going on in clubhouses etc. What we do know is that guys who are generally very well regarded in the game, Jeter, Giambi, Damon etc have their issues with A-Rod. Maybe that means something, maybe it doesn't. But it's not fair to ignore it because we at Primer love A-Rod and like to rip on the others (namely Jeter).
   133. BFFB Posted: September 20, 2006 at 04:56 PM (#2183064)
Of course it's possible that Alex Rodriguez knows himself better than Jason Gimbai and as a result might know that going all "Paul O'Niell" on himself would not be of any positive benefite. His personality may just not be capable of it.

My own take would be that he fully well realised he was struggling and that he was "hurting" the team, which was why he was working so hard.

His "in denial" comments are likely just Rodriguez being defensive. Gee I wander why that might be.

If his team mates can't handle the way he was dealing with his own issues then it is their problem not his.

And Giamabi doesn't really come off as an ass. I looked like he was genuinely trying to help but because he couldn't understand Rodriguez so took it as him not caring or being in denial.
   134. Gotham Dave Posted: September 20, 2006 at 04:58 PM (#2183068)
Alex has been quoted as saying Midtown is his favorite neighborhood in NYC. I didn't think that's possible.

Midtown is where all the classy strip clubs are.
   135. BFFB Posted: September 20, 2006 at 04:59 PM (#2183071)
Further point.

If it's me I probably tell Giamni to go #### himself.
   136. Traderdave Posted: September 20, 2006 at 05:00 PM (#2183074)
WTF is wrong with a guy knowing his stats?

At any given moment, I know my P&L, carry etc, ballpark if not exact. I'd expect ANY professional to know where they stand, whether it's a truck driver knowing his milage and tonnage, or retailer knowing his inventory, etc.
   137. Deacon Blues Posted: September 20, 2006 at 05:01 PM (#2183076)
That's exactly what A-Rod would NEVER do. Tell one of the most popular players to go #### himself.

I'm not saying he should, just that I can't imagine it happening.
   138. Dr Love Posted: September 20, 2006 at 05:02 PM (#2183077)
me if i was the rod and giambi say something to me i say - fu*k off you roid shooting CHEATER you never done nothing here.

For a guy who's already got enough damning anonymous quotes about him, this is probably the worst thing he could say to Giambi. Say what you want about how effective it was, but Giambi saw that the coddling route wasn't working, so he went for the tough love route. Whether it worked or it was the best way to go about it, he's doing more about helping his teammate than some other players. Telling people who want to help you to #### off is a great plan.
   139. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: September 20, 2006 at 05:05 PM (#2183080)
For a guy who's already got enough damning anonymous quotes about him, this is probably the worst thing he could say to Giambi. Say what you want about how effective it was, but Giambi saw that the coddling route wasn't working, so he went for the tough love route. Whether it worked or it was the best way to go about it, he's doing more about helping his teammate than some other players. Telling people who want to help you to #### off is a great plan.

I think her point is that ARod did not lash out at Giambi, despite the fact that it's got to be incredibly tempting.
   140. Dr Love Posted: September 20, 2006 at 05:08 PM (#2183084)
I think her point is that ARod did not lash out at Giambi, despite the fact that it's got to be incredibly tempting.

She clearly said "if i was the rod."
   141. Captain Supporter Posted: September 20, 2006 at 05:12 PM (#2183087)
If his team mates can't handle the way he was dealing with his own issues then it is their problem not his.


It is their problem if their objective is to win games and he is getting in the way of that (and he was - Primates love to point to his OPS as if that stat is the be and end all of winning baseball - Its obviously important, but the A-Rod supporters out here conveniently ignore the horrible close and late performance, the strikeouts, the doubleplays, the poor fielding, and the utterly ridiculous stat where he was last in the American League at plating runners from third base with less than two outs). One of the nice things about rooting for this Yankee team is that it is very clear that they want to win, not just pad their stats and make money. The only thing I fault Giambi for was speaking to a reporter.

24 Yankees have problems with A-rod and it somehow is their fault, not his. In the real world, if I can't get along with all of my coworkers its my fault, not theirs. In any case, they don't have to like him to win ball games. Thurman Munson and Reggie Jackson did not even speak to one another in 1978. How did that work out?
   142. Sam M. Posted: September 20, 2006 at 05:13 PM (#2183088)
me if i was the rod and giambi say something to me i say - fu*k off you roid shooting CHEATER you never done nothing here.

For a guy who's already got enough damning anonymous quotes about him, this is probably the worst thing he could say to Giambi.


No, I suspect Giambi might well have thought, "GREAT! Get mad! Finally -- take it out on me, take it out on the bat rack, take it out on the buffet. Whatever. Just get angry, and quit pretending you're not pissed. Now, take it out on the frigging baseball."
   143. Jorge Luis Bourjos (Walewander) Posted: September 20, 2006 at 05:19 PM (#2183096)
"Alex is too concerned with wanting people to like him. Derek knows he can control only things within the area code DJ."

Say what you will, Barry, I think Reggie is spot-on here. Look at the WBC fiasco. Alex is a people pleaser, and maybe that makes him press a bit. And Reggie's Lance Parrish story is hilarious.

And FWIW, maybe his teammates respect Giambi *because* he's rebuilt his career after making some mistakes that he was pilloried for, and caused serious health problems? (See Tim Raines for another example).
   144. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 20, 2006 at 05:20 PM (#2183098)
You know what's sad about that? Even if all of that happens, A-Rod's fate really wouldn't have been all that different than it has been, unless you add in one more element: the Yankees also win the 2004 World Series. Without a RING to validate him in a lot of eyes, everything else is just not enough.
I disagree. A lot of Yankee fans like to amke this point - that you're only a True Yankee if you win a ring, but it doesn't match up with their actions.

Do Yankee fans treat Mike Mussina, Gary Sheffield or Jason Giambi like this? They love those guys - not like Jeter or Paulie, sure, but they love 'em. And it can hardly be personality, since along never having won a ring in NY, the latter two are confessed cheaters. And no one likes Gary Sheffield.

No, the difference is precisely the 2004 ALCS. Yankee fans, speaking generally, are ok enough with losing in the playoffs, but they have no way to deal with losing to the REd Sox. So they've placed all the blame on A-Rod. If hte Yankees won in 2004 and lost the world series, this A-Rod stuff would be far less of a big deal than it is now.
   145. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: September 20, 2006 at 05:22 PM (#2183101)
She clearly said "if i was the rod."

So?
   146. Dr Love Posted: September 20, 2006 at 05:30 PM (#2183108)
No, I suspect Giambi might well have thought, "GREAT! Get mad! Finally -- take it out on me, take it out on the bat rack, take it out on the buffet. Whatever. Just get angry, and quit pretending you're not pissed. Now, take it out on the frigging baseball."

That's probably true. In Giambi's case.

So?

What? You assumed she meant he showed restraint, but that's not what she meant at all, in fact she meant just about the opposite. I don't know what you mean by "so?"
   147. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: September 20, 2006 at 05:34 PM (#2183112)
She said that's what she would do in that situation, in contrast to what ARod actually did.

Hopefully bc is still here and can clarify.
   148. Dr Love Posted: September 20, 2006 at 05:37 PM (#2183115)
She said that's what she would do in that situation, in contrast to what ARod actually did.

Yeah, no ####. That's what I said.
   149. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: September 20, 2006 at 05:41 PM (#2183120)
This is a strange argument. I'm still confused by this:

I think her point is that ARod did not lash out at Giambi, despite the fact that it's got to be incredibly tempting.

She clearly said "if i was the rod."


What does your response have to do with my original comment?
   150. Dr Love Posted: September 20, 2006 at 05:44 PM (#2183127)
What does your response have to do with my original comment?

Because you're talking about what ARod didn't do, and she's talking about what she would do. Two separate things.
   151. bunyon Posted: September 20, 2006 at 05:54 PM (#2183138)
You know what's sad about that? Even if all of that happens, A-Rod's fate really wouldn't have been all that different than it has been, unless you add in one more element: the Yankees also win the 2004 World Series. Without a RING to validate him in a lot of eyes, everything else is just not enough.

I disagree. A lot of Yankee fans like to amke this point - that you're only a True Yankee if you win a ring, but it doesn't match up with their actions.

Do Yankee fans treat Mike Mussina, Gary Sheffield or Jason Giambi like this? They love those guys - not like Jeter or Paulie, sure, but they love 'em. And it can hardly be personality, since along never having won a ring in NY, the latter two are confessed cheaters. And no one likes Gary Sheffield.

No, the difference is precisely the 2004 ALCS. Yankee fans, speaking generally, are ok enough with losing in the playoffs, but they have no way to deal with losing to the REd Sox. So they've placed all the blame on A-Rod. If hte Yankees won in 2004 and lost the world series, this A-Rod stuff would be far less of a big deal than it is now.


Yeah, it's too bad for A-Rod that Giambi, Sheffield, and Mussina had nothing to do with the 2004 Yankees.

Look, it is clear A-Rod is pressing. It's clear he's had a down year and a slump. He may be an #######. He may be a lousy teammate. I have no idea and neither does anyone here. None of that means he isn't trying or that he doesn't want to win. This entire myth that all he cares about are his numbers and has been carefully constructed and the fact is that the Yanks and their fans are taking the words of two confessed cheaters as more valuable than his. He isn't a particularly charming guy, but I have no idea where the venom comes from. It is clear that Giambi has sway in the clubhouse and I thought the article is really good. Whether that means Giambi should have sway with my opinion is an entirely different matter. It sounds to me like ARod knows he's not going well and is trying to work out of it. It also sounds like he isn't a macho tough guy, which is a mortal sin around these parts. Far worse, clearly, than being a cheater, a moron, a jerk or a tanker.

I find it really, really interesting that two of the famed and founding member of the "Union" have in this thread sided with Jason Giambi against A-Rod. I guess winning really is all that matters.
   152. bunyon Posted: September 20, 2006 at 05:59 PM (#2183147)
Before anyone says anything, it does sound like he isn't a great teammate, seeing as how not many teammates rise to his defense. Certainly the opinion of one's teammates informs about whether or not one is a good teammate or not.
   153. rico vanian Posted: September 20, 2006 at 06:06 PM (#2183155)
I don't care who you are, extremes are just part of the game. I was awful [in Anaheim], but Jeter was 0 for 32 [in 2004], Mo blew three games in one week [last year].... Everybody goes through it."



I am sure that Jeter will appreciate the citation.
   154. HowardMegdal Posted: September 20, 2006 at 06:12 PM (#2183161)
"Sinatra wouldn't have stood for Rodriguez. He would have sent Steve Lawrence to beat him up."

Sinatra always beat up his enemies personally.

I have to say- I find A-Rod irritating and unduly narcissistic, Yankee fans who criticize him ludicrous, and the whole situation quite entertaining. I really wonder how a bad 2006 postseason will leave him- it kind of feels like his last chance to change perceptions before the cement dries.
   155. Boots Day Posted: September 20, 2006 at 06:18 PM (#2183171)
Right. He's not one of the top 3-4 3B in baseball this year, no question. But he's still very good (top quarter), and that's in a terrible year.

Rodriguez's numbers are pretty much exactly where they ended up two years ago. I'm not so sure that this year is terrible as much as last year was over his head a bit. Alex is 31 now, and it could be that the kinds of numbers he's putting up this year are what we can expect from him for the time being.
   156. Sam M. Posted: September 20, 2006 at 06:19 PM (#2183172)
I am sure that Jeter will appreciate the citation.

I thought that exact same thing, when I got to that part of the article: that quote is going to tick Jeter off.

Do Yankee fans treat Mike Mussina, Gary Sheffield or Jason Giambi like this? They love those guys - not like Jeter or Paulie, sure, but they love 'em.

Not really. Having A-Rod as a target has taken considerable heat off those other guys, but at various times they have all taken heat of the same basic type that has plagued A-Rod: not being "true" Yankees, not being worth their millions, not being worthy of his predecessor at the position. And to this day, I don't think any of them could accurately be described as a "beloved" Yankee. I stick to my guns: had the Yankees won the 2004 ALCS, but lost the WS, and everything else been exactly the same, A-Rod would still be ringless, and A-Rod would still be a lightning rod for criticism
   157. base ball chick Posted: September 20, 2006 at 06:22 PM (#2183175)
i am sorry i was not clear

if i personally was in arods shoes i would not deal with it real too good if someone making things worse for me when i was already trying to fix the problem. since he is a guy who always know all his stats he KNOW he is sucking and i guess he feel all defensive and is trying to stay positive. maybe if he say out loud - i'm in a slump - it make it even worse for him self. if he say to his own self - well i DID hit the ball 5 times maybe it help him do bettern if he say - it is not good enuf you hitting like brad ausmus and fielding like giambi and you Kd 20 times or something like that. some people get worse not better when other people try to "help" them

in person if i was arod i would just look at the floor and be quiet until giambi finally give up and go away because that is how i personally am (things different when you can write something not say something).

but arod he is not the kind of guy who is the getting mad kind of guy because he can't stop wanting everyone to like him. not that it is working because it looks like his own teammates do NOT like him (they sure didn't in texas) and rat him out to the media. for WHATEVER reason. and i would guess having giambi tell this stuff to the media making things worse with arod not better.

he must be some **** i mean barry lamar had jeff kent not 23 guys. and plenty of guys stick up for barry but no one to stick up for arod? whoa

me i think that the "purse slap" thing and the purple lipstick or whatever it is - and the fact that arod he come off as a slimy adman with a phony line or something is what hurt him a lot with fans, media. i think whoever say bout if he went all barry lamar 2002 in the playoffs and the yankees win, he STILL gonna be no pauly/brosius/reggie and the FIRST time he Ks with risp he gonna get slammed as much as right now

(what was he supposed to wear for a "job interview" - pajamas? tighty whities? jeans and a tshirt")
   158. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: September 20, 2006 at 06:27 PM (#2183179)
Don't blame the reporter for the quotes.

If Verducci was using those anonymous quotes to show how stupid some of A-Rod's teammates were, mission accomplished, I suppose. But he did so in an article that was shapeless, a tossed salad of innuendo and facts and opinions, so it's pretty hard to tell what he was trying to do with what he had at his disposal. That's how Larry King or Jackie Harvey turn out a column, but it's not good journalism; it's merely a stab at chimerical objectivity. It's stuff like this that makes me long for the return of Bob Greene, and that's when I know I've gone off the deep end.

I'm not saying there weren't nuggets of interest; he did have unusual access, and that made for some good voyeurism the like of which we rarely get, as someone already pointed out.

But overall, thumbs down, and I'll save you a seat in the balcony. 8-)
   159. CFiJ Posted: September 20, 2006 at 06:35 PM (#2183188)
At this point, I don't think A-Rod would be liked even if he led the Yanks to the championship. I would expect his contributions to be minimized and marginalized.

The article, I thought, was a combination of the best of behind-the-scenes, human interest sports reporting and the worst of armchair psychoanalysis rife with the Fundamental Attribution Error. Judging a man's character by his practice swings? Please. Reggie, STFU.
   160. Basha Posted: September 20, 2006 at 06:39 PM (#2183193)
Am I the only one starting to get a Michael Jackson vibe from A-Rod?

Not the fascination with kids part, but the vacant fake personal reality part. Maybe they are both showing the effects of having been feted as superstars at an early age.

That said, there are tons of examples of others who adjusted just fine, and obviously, the degrees of wacko-ness are not remotely the same.

Nonetheless, I wonder what Alex sees when he looks at the man in the mirror....
   161. Basha Posted: September 20, 2006 at 06:39 PM (#2183194)
Am I the only one starting to get a Michael Jackson vibe from A-Rod?

Not the fascination with kids part, but the vacant fake personal reality part. Maybe they are both showing the effects of having been feted as superstars at an early age.

That said, there are tons of examples of others who adjusted just fine, and obviously, the degrees of wacko-ness are not remotely the same.

Nonetheless, I wonder what Alex sees when he looks at the man in the mirror....
   162. bunyon Posted: September 20, 2006 at 06:40 PM (#2183195)
The article, I thought, was a combination of the best of behind-the-scenes, human interest sports reporting and the worst of armchair psychoanalysis rife with the Fundamental Attribution Error. Judging a man's character by his practice swings? Please. Reggie, STFU.

Yes, but we know that Reggie judges character superficially. It isn't important how hard A-Rod tries, or how hard he works. It is how he looks as he works that matters. He could slump all year so long as he looked good.
   163. HowardMegdal Posted: September 20, 2006 at 06:40 PM (#2183197)
"I would expect his contributions to be minimized and marginalized."

Quite possible. I suspect it would take something like Reggie's 1977 WS Game 6, something that couldn't be spun. Look, if he wins game 7 with a home run, no one can plausibly credit it to Jeter...
   164. base ball chick Posted: September 20, 2006 at 06:47 PM (#2183205)
HowardMegdal Posted: September 20, 2006 at 02:40 PM (#2183197)

"I would expect his contributions to be minimized and marginalized."

Quite possible. I suspect it would take something like Reggie's 1977 WS Game 6, something that couldn't be spun. Look, if he wins game 7 with a home run, no one can plausibly credit it to Jeter...


- no BUT the media can still make it all about how jeters jeteriness and veteran presence and captainness is what pulled the team together and look at how jeter set up arod's hr by his clutch single and how he caught that popup or something

stuff like that
   165. The Polish Sausage Racer Posted: September 20, 2006 at 06:57 PM (#2183213)
Said another teammate, "I think he ought to get his eyes checked. I'm not kidding. I don't think he's seeing the ball."

No one has commented on this. Maybe his eyes are going, and he's afraid he'll get a Kirby Puckett diagnosis. Not impossible, and it would explain his swings being consistently characterized in teh article as guesswork.

Money quote of teh article:

When people write [bad things] about me, I don't know if it's [because] I'm good-looking, I'm biracial, I make the most money, I play on the most popular team...."

Yes, because except for the money those are exactly the reasons that everyone despises The Jeter.

In any event, it's entertaining to see that these guys all hate each others guts, and are more than willing to throw each other under the bus, just like in an ordinary job.
   166. Kyle S Posted: September 20, 2006 at 06:59 PM (#2183217)
i feel bad to an extent for a-rod, but at the same time, no one made him sign that contract. he had to know that he will be the focus of intense scrutiny when he signed it. moreover, he didn't have to come to NY; he had to know he'd face even MORE scrutiny there.

what would the world be like if A-Rod had gone to boston as he originally was going to? i wonder...
   167. Lest we forget Posted: September 20, 2006 at 07:13 PM (#2183228)
RJ: "Derek knows he can control only things within the area code DJ."

BLB: "Jeter is the leadership and heart and soul who guides the Yankees, but can only be concerned with area code DJ."

Not a favorable interpretation.
   168. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 20, 2006 at 07:16 PM (#2183230)
Verducci was just on the radio, and the question was posed to him, asking how much it says about the relationship between Jeter and Rodriguez. He sayd, "A <u>lot</u>." Verducci noted that when Knoblauch was struggling, Jeter spoke up. When Giambi was going through his post-roid, sickness period and not hitting a lick, Jeter came out and publicly supported him, saying that the team was 100% behind Giambi.

But with A-Rod, Jeter dodged the question completely, which makes it reasonable to think that Jeter, if not the rest of the team, was NOT 100% behind ARod, for whatever reason.
   169. ian Posted: September 20, 2006 at 07:35 PM (#2183251)
Again, you have no idea if any of this is true. You are just parroting jackass reporters who need a story and were writing that it was up to Jeter to help him. In any case, how exactly can Jeter help Alex out? By telling the fans to lay off him? That would just make Alex look weak. By telling the media to lay off him? That would just fuel more idiotic stories. Alex Rodriquez is supposed to be one of the greatest players in the history of the game. Why should he need that kind of help? You can see from the story that Mariano knew he needed support. But he did not speak up publically either. Why? Because to do so is a nonsensical idea dreamed up by idiot reporters.

No idea if what is true? That Jeter could have publically supported A-Rod and chose not to? Well, I think I know that's true.

He publically did it for Giambi, according to the article.

When the fans and media were all over A-Rod every single day Jeter could have tried to help and chose not to, and not because he sat down and thought long and hard about what would happen if he made a positive statement. That reeks of BS. He didn't comment publically because he's Jeter, selfish a-hole. It doesn't matter to me much if the rest of the team is similarly self-focused. They're not renowned for being team players, or if they are they're extremely media-shy (Rivera, Matsui).

Giambi referenced a tension between A-Rod and Jeter. A-Rod admitted to it. So when Jeter has publically supported teammates in the past, and choses not to do it for the one guy we know he dislikes, I come to the conclusion that it's the dislike outweighting what would otherwise be best for the team. "Oh I can't comment on that, it's not my job" <i>unless it's someone other than A-Rod, then that's fair game.
   170. rico vanian Posted: September 20, 2006 at 07:36 PM (#2183253)
Jeter is having an MVP year to spite A-Rod.
   171. ian Posted: September 20, 2006 at 07:40 PM (#2183261)
They're not renowned for being team players, or if they are they're extremely media-shy (Rivera, Matsui).

Er, to clear this up, I don't mean they're all known for being selfish. Just that the Scott Proctors, Robinson Canos, and Gary Sheffields aren't talked about as "best teammate in the game" and The Captain etc.
   172. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: September 20, 2006 at 08:01 PM (#2183286)
<blockquote> I guess I was pointing out a double standard that exists with A-rod, one that other posters have also pointed out, of course. I have no idea how Giambi is handling this slump so I have no reason to criticize. </blockquote

It's not a double standard: Giambi has been playing through injuries, it's not his approach to the game that's suffering.
   173. Daryn Posted: September 20, 2006 at 08:04 PM (#2183291)
Maybe they are both showing the effects of having been feted as superstars at an early age.

That word is spelled "fellated".
   174. Шĥy Posted: September 20, 2006 at 08:14 PM (#2183303)
I think a huge issue with people not liking Arod is because he is so feminine. It's not a coincidence that the author of this article compared him to a high school girl. The whole image that has been created from his slap, appearing weak in the fight against Varitek, waxing his eyebrows, having blond tipped hair, and having purple lips wasn't really there, or at least not noticed, until he came to New York. People don't expect that type of guy to be a good athlete.
   175. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: September 20, 2006 at 08:23 PM (#2183308)
appearing weak in the fight against Varitek,


I don't understand this at all. A man wearing a mask, chest protector, shin guards, etc. picked a fight against him and was grabbing his balls during the fight. The only people that think A-Rod looked weak in this fight are the ones that use everything possible to put him down.
   176. CrosbyBird Posted: September 20, 2006 at 08:34 PM (#2183318)
what would the world be like if A-Rod had gone to boston as he originally was going to?

What would it have been like if he signed with the Mets in 2001? The Mets were coming off a WS appearance and Ordonez's 2001 was mind-numbingly awful: .247/.299/.346. Maybe they still don't make the playoffs (although they are likely good enough to be buyers in July), but I would imagine that he'd have been very successful as a Met.

when Jeter has publically supported teammates in the past, and choses not to do it for the one guy we know he dislikes, I come to the conclusion that it's the dislike outweighting what would otherwise be best for the team.

I don't know why you'd expect Jeter to be so team-oriented. What is he, some kind of captain or something?

Does anyone honestly think Jeter doesn't realize his relative silence through A-Rod's struggles is damning?
   177. base ball chick Posted: September 20, 2006 at 08:41 PM (#2183324)
Daryn Posted: September 20, 2006 at 04:04 PM (#2183291)

Maybe they are both showing the effects of having been feted as superstars at an early age.

That word is spelled "fellated".


yep. you, um, nailed it
hehhehheh



roger clemens ROOLZ
in case yall didn't know it
   178. Captain Supporter Posted: September 20, 2006 at 08:49 PM (#2183330)
</blockquote>I don't know why you'd expect Jeter to be so team-oriented. What is he, some kind of captain or something?<blockquote>

Its amazing that Primates can try to turn every negative trait A-rod has into Jeter's problem. Jeter is quite obviously greatly respected by the vast majority, if not all, of his teammates; A-rod is just as obviously respected by few, if any (although Sheffield has tried to support him in the past). The problem is not a Jeter problem its a Rodriquez problem). Teammates do not have to all be best friends to win. The great 1970 Oakland A's teams had vicious behind the scenes feuds. Captain Thurman and Reggie intensely disliked one another. No one said that Captain Thurman was not team oriented because he did not get along with Reggie. If Derek made some hypocritical statements about how everybody should support Alex, then all the Jeter hating primates would be all over him for being hypocritical.

Jeter did support Giambi, but that was very different. Giambi had a tumor, was testifying before a grand jury, and was looking at a possible indictment. Alex could not throw the ball to second base because of a supposed injury (which also seemed to falre up in close and late situations, although it seems to have healed nicely now that the pressure is off). Does anyone beside me see a difference in the two cases?
   179. base ball chick Posted: September 20, 2006 at 08:54 PM (#2183333)
. CrosbyBird Posted: September 20, 2006 at 04:34 PM (#2183318)

Does anyone honestly think Jeter doesn't realize his relative silence through A-Rod's struggles is damning?

of COURSE. its called "getting even"

by saying/doing nothing, jeter has done the best job i ever seen of getting even and i gotta take my cap off to him. because it is hard to say something to get the other person without making your own self look bad too (towers/mirabelli)
   180. Sam M. Posted: September 20, 2006 at 08:59 PM (#2183334)
Does anyone beside me see a difference in the two cases?

I see the difference, but the difference is BS if you believe that the reason for speaking up is because it's for the good of the team and because you're supposed to be all about winning. The thing that is supposed to be so great about Jeter is that he puts winning above all else: his own stats, his body, his ego, money. Here, one would have thought he'd put it above his own feelings about A-Rod and realize that the booing and the press were making a bad situation worse, and that a few words from him would/could make it a lot better, at least for a little while. The fans in the stands -- a lot of them, at least -- take their cue from Jeter, and when they see him say nothing, and they read his body language, it speaks volumes: it says, "Keep it coming, boys, keep it coming." Don't kid yourself.

Do you think that helps the Yankees win? Forget whether it's really Jeter's problem in the first place. It's A-Rod's, sure. But if A-Rod's struggles are hurting the Yankees, that is supposed to be Jeter's concern. Why wasn't it???
   181. WalkOffIBB Posted: September 20, 2006 at 08:59 PM (#2183335)
Jeter did support Giambi, but that was very different. Giambi had a tumor, was testifying before a grand jury, and was looking at a possible indictment. Alex could not throw the ball to second base because of a supposed injury (which also seemed to falre up in close and late situations, although it seems to have healed nicely now that the pressure is off). Does anyone beside me see a difference in the two cases?

Jeter also publically supported Chuck when he had the yips at second.
   182. Mike Emeigh Posted: September 20, 2006 at 09:05 PM (#2183341)
The problem is not a Jeter problem its a Rodriquez problem.


It's a Yankee problem, and everybody involved here has handled it badly - including A-Rod AND Jeter (and Giambi, and Torre too). Just because the Mustache Gang and the Bronx Zoo has some problems like this one doesn't mean that the way this situation has been handled is the right way to do it.

-- MWE
   183. flack Posted: September 20, 2006 at 09:05 PM (#2183342)
Basha --
Re the Michael Jackson vibe: I have noticed A-Rod only wears a glove on one hand in the field. Hmmmm.
   184. Ginger Nut Posted: September 20, 2006 at 09:14 PM (#2183350)
A-Rod hiding behind "I've got 116 RBIs" is total crap.

***

You do realize that post #61 here is satire, right?



I love this. Someone call WFAN immediately to report that A-Rod went on an internet message board and bragged that he has 116 RBIs.
   185. WalkOffIBB Posted: September 20, 2006 at 09:17 PM (#2183352)
Publically

Good lord, where the hell did that come from. Obviously, I meant publicly.
   186. Deacon Blues Posted: September 20, 2006 at 09:21 PM (#2183354)
this whole thread is hysterical to read. Everyone has become so wrapped up in their A-Rod defense and Jeter attack that they've completely lost perspective. If this same article came up about Jeter, you all would have his head. Unfortunately, several quotes by RESPECTED people in baseball seem to indicate that A-Rod is less than a perfect teammate. But because that is so at odds with everyone's preconceived notions that A-Rod is unfairly maligned and Jeter unrightly sainted, we choose to try and swing this around. People are now jumping on Giambi b/c "he's a cheater" (amazing how tolerant people were of Bonds just two years ago) and therefore has no credibility on any subject for the rest of his life. Clearly Joe Torre (who everyone respects) listens to what Giambi says. And he's forgotten more about how major league clubhouses than any of us sitting at our computers have ever known. People seem to respect Jeter (whom I actually have never liked all that much) and don't really respect A-Rod (or at least how he handles himself). Both of these facts seem quite probable at this point. Deal with it and stop turning the issue around.
   187. Deacon Blues Posted: September 20, 2006 at 09:23 PM (#2183360)
<b></b>
I love this. Someone call WFAN immediately to report that A-Rod went on an internet message board and bragged that he has 116 RBIs.


I was actually referring to the part of the article where he says if I finish with 125 rbi's then god's been good to me. The main point of the comment was that A-Rod appears to have hidden behind his superior statistics to deflect blame.
   188. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: September 20, 2006 at 09:38 PM (#2183376)
I'd just like to say that I find Captain Supporter to be an absolutely execrable poster.
   189. Captain Supporter Posted: September 20, 2006 at 09:38 PM (#2183377)
I don't know why you'd expect Jeter to be so team-oriented. What is he, some kind of captain or something?

I'm not surprised a Red Sox fan thinks the Yankees have handled it badly. But I don't think they have. The problem is that Alex is a very fragile individual with some personality problems. Remember he had similar problems with his teammates and a much worse problem with his manager when he was in Texas. Alex is either going to work out here in New York or he is not. Its up to him. His teammates and manager can help to a point, but a player whom the Primates tout as one of the greatest players of all time has to be able to handle stress and situations. If I was Yankee ownership, I'd solve the problem quite simply: I'd trade him.
   190. The Original SJ Posted: September 20, 2006 at 09:39 PM (#2183380)
I would not trade places with A-Rod for all the money in his wallet.
   191. . Posted: September 20, 2006 at 09:39 PM (#2183381)
I like how he called himself "bi-racial" when both his parents are Dominican and he's American.
   192. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: September 20, 2006 at 09:42 PM (#2183382)
Ugh, why did I say that. I meant I think Captain Supporter's posts are execrable. I'm sure he's a dandy guy through and through. Anyway, sorry CS, but I don't agree with you and never will. Still, that was a douche thing of me to post.
   193. Captain Supporter Posted: September 20, 2006 at 09:45 PM (#2183385)
I'd just like to say that I find Captain Supporter to be an absolutely execrable poster.


I'm not surprised. A-rod is a pretty boy for the Sabermetric crowd, and you find it hard to react to someone who understands that winning baseball involves more than just adding a slugging percenatge to an on-base percentage. It becomes a particular problem for someone like you when it becomes apparent that the people who play with him everyday agree with me.
   194. Captain Supporter Posted: September 20, 2006 at 09:47 PM (#2183388)
Apology appreciated and accepted WJ. Consider post 194 deleted
   195. Johnny Tuttle Posted: September 20, 2006 at 09:52 PM (#2183393)
Anyone else get the feeling Jeter still remembers the days when A-Rod, and not he, was considered the best shortstop in the universe?


I may not be the brightest light in the chandelier, but I do remember today.
   196. Johnny Tuttle Posted: September 20, 2006 at 09:55 PM (#2183397)
61 was brilliant.
   197. base ball chick Posted: September 20, 2006 at 09:56 PM (#2183398)
captain supporter

i personally am not saying whatever bad about the rod is jeter's fault.

jeff kent played here 2 years and he was rude and abusive to everybody below him in the pecking order. but you never heard the players call him out in the press - (i know roger did in person...) when the reporters say something - like lance berkman, he say, oh thats just jeff. even though jeff RUDE and abusive to him too

it sez something to me that jeter would defend a CHEATING steroid user. BUT that he would not defend a struggling teammate. and what it sez is that jeter personally got something against arod - he could perfectly well say - hey, the guy is struggling right now - i went 1 fer 60 (or whatever it was) a couple years ago, i worked out of it, rod will too - something like that

it also tells me what ML ballplayers REALLY think of roid users IF giambi really is "respected"

so me, it really make me wonder what the BALLPLAYERS think of barry lamar
   198. yb125 Posted: September 20, 2006 at 09:57 PM (#2183399)
and the press were making a bad situation worse, and that a few words from him would/could make it a lot better, at least for a little while. The fans in the stands -- a lot of them, at least -- take their cue from Jeter, and when they see him say nothing, and they read his body language, it speaks volumes: it says, "Keep it coming, boys, keep it coming." Don't kid yourself.


Well this is were I would completely disagree. Jeter telling anyone to lay off A-rod, who is already perceived as weak and fragile just makes Jeter look magnanimous and A-rod look likes he has to hide behind Jeter's cape. If was A-rod I'd be begging Jeter not to run in to "save" me.
Maybe Jeter doesn't because he has negative feelings toward him (which I've yet to see evidence of sure they don't have sleep overs anymore but that often stops when one gets married.) but I don't think that's the obvious conclusion.
   199. Johnny Tuttle Posted: September 20, 2006 at 10:01 PM (#2183403)
Jeter had ample chance to help A-Rod out [which would help the team. He's all about winning right?] and chose not to do so -- he's helped players out publically in the past -- but he chose not to do so here because of a personal rift over not-so-terrible comments made about a half dozen years ago.

Yeah, I thought Jetes was all about the team?


No one's character is so sterling.

The way he reacted to Huckaby was little better. The guy made an incredible play to cleanly get Jeter out, catching the ball on the fly and applying the tag like a 2nd baseman and wide receiver in hockey goalie gear, and he goes to apologize (for whatever) after teh game, and Captain Famous blows him off.

Jeter is a good player for sure, and I'm sure he's good to be around if you're deferential to him. But he's no one I admire.
   200. bunyon Posted: September 20, 2006 at 10:04 PM (#2183406)
<i>it also tells me what ML ballplayers REALLY think of roid users IF giambi really is "respected",/i>

Yup.
Page 2 of 3 pages  < 1 2 3 > 

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
aleskel
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT - NBA Bubble Thread
(2 - 8:18am, Aug 07)
Last: Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant

NewsblogFacts refute claims Cardinals got COVID-19 at casino
(17 - 7:54am, Aug 07)
Last: Never Give an Inge (Dave)

NewsblogEmpty Stadium Sports Will Be Really Weird
(8769 - 7:20am, Aug 07)
Last: Never Give an Inge (Dave)

NewsblogThere's no cure for OMNICHATTER! for August 6, 2020
(26 - 5:16am, Aug 07)
Last: Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama

NewsblogCarter Stewart ditched the MLB draft to pitch in Japan. Then came the coronavirus
(8 - 9:52pm, Aug 06)
Last: asinwreck

NewsblogAn Olympic speedskater now plays for Miami
(11 - 6:04pm, Aug 06)
Last: Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc

NewsblogThe Lost Career of Luke Easter
(10 - 5:25pm, Aug 06)
Last: baudib

NewsblogThe oldest league you never knew about
(2 - 4:50pm, Aug 06)
Last: The Mighty Quintana

NewsblogOT Soccer Thread - Spring 2020
(621 - 4:37pm, Aug 06)
Last: Mefisto

NewsblogOT – NBA Revival Thread 2020
(813 - 4:04pm, Aug 06)
Last: always extremely 57i66135, but never enough

Gonfalon Cubs60 Second Season Preview
(39 - 12:05pm, Aug 06)
Last: Moses Taylor, glorified meat shield

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1929 Results
(2 - 10:18am, Aug 06)
Last: DL from MN

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1929 Discussion
(10 - 10:11am, Aug 06)
Last: DL from MN

Sox TherapyWhat Have We Learned
(7 - 10:00am, Aug 06)
Last: Answer Guy.

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1929 Ballot
(10 - 9:41am, Aug 06)
Last: DL from MN

Page rendered in 0.7578 seconds
48 querie(s) executed