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Monday, January 13, 2020

Slate: “You Guys Are Scaring Me”

A re-examination of the allegations of rape against three Mets during 1992 spring training. Not an easy read, but worth it.

The alleged gang rape at spring training was an enormous scandal. The police in Port St. Lucie said they’d fielded 200 calls from reporters in the 24 hours after Gooden’s name had been linked to the case. The New York tabloids covered it exhaustively, as did sports-talk radio and shock-jock morning shows. The New York Times alone ran two dozen pieces on the investigation.

After four weeks of leering coverage, a Florida prosecutor announced that Dwight Gooden, Vince Coleman, and Daryl Boston would not be charged with any crimes. The odds of getting a conviction, he said, would be too low to warrant moving forward. “There are going to be people even eight, nine years from now, who are going to be bringing this up,” Gooden told the New York Daily News right after he’d been cleared. He was wrong. Two days later, Gooden took the mound in the Mets’ home opener: He pitched well, but lost. “NOT GOODENOUGH,” read the headline in the Daily News, with the story explaining that it was “his first appearance at Shea [Stadium] since rotator cuff surgery.” The rape inquiry wasn’t mentioned at all.

AndrewJ Posted: January 13, 2020 at 10:53 AM | 52 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: 1992, allegations, crime, mets, rape, spring training

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   1. "RMc", the superbatsman Posted: January 13, 2020 at 12:09 PM (#5915100)
It's an absurdly small point to make on such a grim story, but I noticed the author's parents didn't allow him to stay up late enough to watch the end of Game 6 of the 1986 World Series. He was 11 years old then.

Now, shouldn't eleven be old enough for a baseball fan to be allowed to stay up to watch the World Series? I remember being 11 a decade earlier, in 1976, watching all of the classic Celtics-Suns NBA finals game that went to triple overtime. (I even remember the announcers saying something about how the late the game was going, and hoping the kids could stay up late enough to see all of it.) Of course, that was a long time ago; hell, it's tough for adults to stay up late enough to World Series games these days, let alone kids. I know of there was a pre-teen in my house who loved baseball, s/he could stay up as late as they wanted to watch the World Series. (Playoff games would be iffy; regular season games, probably not, unless someone's throwing a no-hitter or something.)

Carry on.

   2. SoSH U at work Posted: January 13, 2020 at 12:42 PM (#5915107)
Now, shouldn't eleven be old enough for a baseball fan to be allowed to stay up to watch the World Series?


Particularly when Game 6 is on a Saturday.

   3. PreservedFish Posted: January 13, 2020 at 12:46 PM (#5915109)
I let my 7 year old stay up until midnight on NYE.
   4. Itchy Row Posted: January 13, 2020 at 12:54 PM (#5915114)
I fell asleep before the end of Game 7 of the 1987 World Series, when I was 12, and my dad made fun of me for that for the rest of his life.
   5. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: January 13, 2020 at 12:58 PM (#5915118)
Now, shouldn't eleven be old enough for a baseball fan to be allowed to stay up to watch the World Series?

Particularly when Game 6 is on a Saturday.


It goes without saying that his parents should have him taken away from them, but perhaps they had an early Black Mass the next day.
   6. JAHV Posted: January 13, 2020 at 01:19 PM (#5915124)
I let my kids (the youngest would have been 7, but he's also the biggest baseball fan of the brood) stay up until 11 pm or whatever it was on the West Coast to watch game 7 of the Cubs-Indians Series a couple years ago. It's the World Series. One of my earliest (and best) baseball memories is staying up to watch Kirk Gibson's homerun in '88. I won't deny my kids that possibility.
   7. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 13, 2020 at 01:24 PM (#5915129)
I was 7 years old in 1986. My parents made me go to sleep but videotaped the end of the game so I could watch it in the morning. (It's possible that I just saw replays on the news; but I do remember seeing the Buckner play the next morning.)
   8. . Posted: January 13, 2020 at 01:27 PM (#5915130)
I remember being 11 a decade earlier, in 1976, watching all of the classic Celtics-Suns NBA finals game that went to triple overtime. (I even remember the announcers saying something about how the late the game was going, and hoping the kids could stay up late enough to see all of it.)


Same here, but 12. Game started at around 9:15 in Boston, and the fans were very liquored up, which accounts for the fan's assault of Richie Powers, one of the refs, I think in one of the overtimes. We were actually on a practice run for a big family vacation that involved a lot of camping (*), so my parents and my younger sister were all in a tent in some campground maybe 45 minutes from home, dry-running. They were sound asleep; I was watching the black and white probably on some kind of generator. When Gar Heard hit the famous shot to send it to triple overtime, probably around midnight, I let out a loud "YEAH!!!!," waking all of them up. Probably not my finest hour, but certainly a classic moment in my sports fan history. I stayed up for almost all the big NBA games from about 1974-79, often times taking a short nap and then getting up for an 11:30 start. Good times, and there's no doubt they made me an NBA fan for life.

(*) Which both my dad and I are not so great at or predisposed to, so a lot of father-son discord in the summer of Unc Sam's bicentennial. We wound up all getting sick of camping and going to San Francisco a couple days earlier than planned. After a bunch of cowtowns and campgrounds, a decent hotel in SF and the SF Chronicle on a cold, rainy afternoon delineating the exploits of Von Joshua and Willie Montanez became pretty much the definition of civilization.
   9. Traderdave Posted: January 13, 2020 at 01:37 PM (#5915133)
A rainy afternoon in SF in summer?

   10. . Posted: January 13, 2020 at 01:43 PM (#5915135)
American sports in the 1970s, New York Times, June 5, 1976:

BOSTON, June 4—Surviving three overtimes, thousands of rioting fans and two endings, the Boston Celtics defeated the Phoenix Suns, 128‐126 tonight. The victory was marred, however, by an attack by a Boston Garden fan on one of the referees, Richie Powers. The nearly miraculous, emotion‐packed victory gave the Celtics a three‐game‐to‐two lead in the four‐of‐seven National Basketball Association championship.

With two seconds remaining in the second five‐minute overtime and Phoenix leading by a point, John Havlicek of Boston sent a running jump shot through the hoop. Thinking their team had rescued victory from.certain defeat, the fans poured onto the court, both to celebrate their hero and to bereate the referees for what they considered earlier injustices.

With hundreds of exuberant and beer‐drinking fans pummeling players, themselves and the officials, it wasn't long before fights began. Powers was grabbed by a fan and had to force his way free. A number of Suns players, towering above the crowd, had to push and shove their way to the sidelines.

While the police dragged Powers's assailant away, the referee held up two fingers to indicate that the game wasn't over. He was hardly noticed as the fighting and the celebrating continued on the court.

After 10 minutes, the fans were finally moved to the perimeter while Phoenix plotted its last shot. Coach John MacLeod had called an illegal time‐out, knowing he had no more left but he risked a technical foul just to be able to throw the ball in at midcourt, which the rules would not allow otherwise.

Jo Jo White sank the foul to put Boston ahead by 2, but Gar Heard of Phoenix threw in a long jumper at the buzzer to tie the score at 112412 and send the game into a third overtime.

Again the fans, now surrounding the court like overgrown hedges, began getting ugly with the Phoenix players and several times the police had to break up near altercations. Fans in the upper balconies were throwing cups, waste paper and rubber balls among the debris, slowing the game to a walk.

Unlike the regulation contest, which had ended sensationally at 95‐95, and the first overtime, which also tied, 101‐101, with a late basket, the third overtime saw the Celtics run up a 6‐point lead with 36 seconds to go.

With the fans still running on the court and trying to touch the players on the bench, the Suns nearly came back again, scoring two baskets with 12 seconds left. But White dribbled the time away to sew up the triumph, and the sellout crowd of 15,320 was finally allowed to exhale.

“That was the most exiting, draining and most dangerous game I've ever been associated with,” said a subdued but still angry MacLeod. “Something's wrong when you can't even coach in a huddle without fans fighting with your players the whole time. I'm surprised nobody was seriously hurt.”(**)


(**) Coaches, players, etc. would often express this sentiment -- oh, what a miracle no one was seriously hurt, oh the humanity, oh I must clutch my pearls now .... but no one was ever seriously hurt.
   11. Blastin Posted: January 13, 2020 at 02:04 PM (#5915138)
You all successfully made this about the bedtimes! Wow!



This is all extremely gross and sad. I was too young to know that what I had heard of as Gooden and Strawberry's "bad boy" issues were far more severe than addiction. Cone does.... not... come off well here at all either. Just.... yikes.
   12. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 13, 2020 at 02:06 PM (#5915141)

(**) Coaches, players, etc. would often express this sentiment -- oh, what a miracle no one was seriously hurt, oh the humanity .... but no one was ever seriously hurt.

I guess it depends what you mean by "seriously" and what sports you're looking at. Wikipedia has a pretty comprehensive list of these type of incidents (as well as some that don't really fit the bill, like fans brawling with other fans).

I feel like the Monica Seles attack was kind of the turning point. Different from many of the other situations but it resulted in heightened security in many sports, IIRC.

The fans are probably at more risk of serious injury in these situations than the players, and the teams/players are at risk of resulting legal action (that Wikipedia list gives several examples of players doing time after responding to fan provocation), which is enough reason for the teams to have heightened security.
   13. SoSH U at work Posted: January 13, 2020 at 02:08 PM (#5915145)
This is all extremely gross and sad.


I read this last night. I'd say it was exactly that.

Cone does.... not... come off well here at all either.


Nor does that New York Post reporter Peyser.
   14. Blastin Posted: January 13, 2020 at 02:11 PM (#5915147)
Agreed.

Also, the kicker at the end, we find out she has passed way early in the story, and then turns out it was suicide. You can't draw a straight line but....
   15. . Posted: January 13, 2020 at 02:14 PM (#5915150)
I guess it depends what you mean by "seriously" and what sports you're looking at. Wikipedia has a pretty comprehensive list of these type of incidents (as well as some that don't really fit the bill, like fans brawling with other fans).

I feel like the Monica Seles attack was kind of the turning point. Different from many of the other situations but it resulted in heightened security in many sports, IIRC.


I'm looking at American sports and the mob scenes that used to happen in all of them -- as described in the Times story I posted -- and now really only happen in college basketball and football.

I mean, yeah, if a guy brings a knife into an arena with the specific intent to use it on one particular person, that can and did lead to serious injury, but that's an entirely different deal than what I'm talking about. Monica Seles wasn't injured in a 1976 Boston Garden like mob; she was targeted by one lone wolf actor.
   16. PreservedFish Posted: January 13, 2020 at 02:16 PM (#5915152)
I'd rather talk about bedtimes than rape.
   17. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 13, 2020 at 02:17 PM (#5915157)

Still reading the article but the state attorney who ultimately declined to press charges is now leading Florida's investigation into the plea deal with Jeffrey Epstein.
   18. gef, talking mongoose & vexatious litigant Posted: January 13, 2020 at 02:22 PM (#5915166)
(It's possible that I just saw replays on the news; but I do remember seeing the Buckner play the next morning.)


I didn't see it till the Ken Burns series nearly a decade later. I was 27 years old & so had no issue with being awake, but was so nervous at the prospect of finally experiencing a Red Sox championship that I walked away from the TV in our den during that inning & instead listened on the radio in the adjoining master bedroom.

*sigh*
   19. . Posted: January 13, 2020 at 02:32 PM (#5915182)
I'd rather talk about bedtimes than rape.


This is a political story and OTP has been terminated. The underpinning is kind of the typical and reductionist and boring and highly political, "Woke people in 2020 look back at American history, deem it insufficiently woke, be woke with me or I will denounce you." Some of the commentary is lurching in that direction, too. OTP has been terminated.
   20. DCA Posted: January 13, 2020 at 02:39 PM (#5915188)
The underpinning is kind of the typical and reductionist and boring and highly political, "Woke people in 2020 look back at American history, deem it insufficiently woke, be woke with me or I will denounce you."

I don't see any of that here, actually.
   21. Harmon "Thread Killer" Microbrew Posted: January 13, 2020 at 02:43 PM (#5915197)
This is a political story . . .


How so? Republicans will support the Mets and only a Liberal could suggest that justice was denied here?

I honestly don't understand your comment.
   22. . Posted: January 13, 2020 at 02:47 PM (#5915203)
I don't see any of that here, actually.


I'm sure you don't.
   23. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 13, 2020 at 02:53 PM (#5915207)
This is a political story and OTP has been terminated.

OTP has been terminated but this isn't "OT", even if it were "P".
   24. . Posted: January 13, 2020 at 03:01 PM (#5915213)
OTP has been terminated but this isn't "OT", even if it were "P".


A story in a political website about 28-year-old events? What's "OT" about it? It's all "P," and nothing but "P," in the exact vein I described in 19. The snarky, "The rape inquiry wasn’t mentioned at all" is exactly what I described in 19 -- "people were insufficiently woke in 1992, they were all rapey, let's all denounce them."(*) That's political to the core, and not remotely on topic. Daryl Boston and Doc Gooden and Vince Coleman are as irrelevant to baseball in 2020 as Pie Traynor or Ossie Schrecongost. Nor was the story posted so we could discuss baseball -- obviously.

(*) Apparently while at the same time entirely unaware that athletes in 2019-20 are *routinely* caught up in sexual assault allegations while outlets like ESPN don't say a word about it.
These things are swept under the rug by the mythmakers *more* today than in 1992. The story is clueless and absurd even on its own political terms.
   25. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 13, 2020 at 03:07 PM (#5915221)

What's "OT" about it?

Nothing -- which is exactly the point.

If you feel strongly about it, there are places you can take it up with the site admins. But the conversation seems perfectly civil and there has actually been discussion about baseball, despite your attempts to derail it.
   26. . Posted: January 13, 2020 at 03:11 PM (#5915225)
there has actually been discussion about baseball, despite your attempts to derail it.


There hasn't been a single baseball mention of the 1992 Mets or any of the three "protagonists." I haven't "derailed" anything; all I've done is point out the obvious political overtones of the story.

But the conversation seems perfectly civil


It's superficially civil. If anyone said anything political that wasn't within the woke "consensus," it would cease to be. It's kind of started ceasing already. This is what always happens with these efforts to sneak politics into the boards; indeed, that's why the sneaking is done.
   27. PreservedFish Posted: January 13, 2020 at 03:20 PM (#5915239)
Only thing worse than OT:P is SBB's special brand of meta-OT:P.

So, about bedtimes...
   28. "RMc", the superbatsman Posted: January 13, 2020 at 03:24 PM (#5915241)
Daryl Boston and Doc Gooden and Vince Coleman are as irrelevant to baseball in 2020 as Pie Traynor or Ossie Schrecongost [sic].


Those first three people are still alive, the other two not so much.

If anyone said anything political that wasn't within the woke "consensus," it would cease to be.


Nobody points out Primer's left-leaning tendencies quicker than I do, but it's not like they ban people for not being Democrats. Hell, I'm still here!

You all successfully made this about the bedtimes! Wow!


I honestly wasn't trying to do that; I assumed everybody would roll their eyes and return the topic to the rape-ity rape rape. But, yeah, bedtimes are a lot easier to discuss.
   29. Ziggy is done with Dominican discotheques Posted: January 13, 2020 at 03:25 PM (#5915243)
Guys, may I direct you to the best post of the thread:

26. . Posted: January 13, 2020 at 03:11 PM (#5915225)
[ Ignored Comment ]


And yeah, baseball games end too late, and 11 year olds should totally be allowed to stay up to watch the World Series.
   30. "RMc", the superbatsman Posted: January 13, 2020 at 03:28 PM (#5915244)
Re 12: My favourite entry:

June 7 (1902) – At the end of a Victorian Football League match between Carlton and Fitzroy at Princess Park, a group of drunk Carlton fans jostled and kicked field umpire Henry "Ivo" Crapp.


Y'know, ump, if you've got that for a last name, using a nickname is not gonna help. (Unless it's "Buncha".)
   31. Itchy Row Posted: January 13, 2020 at 03:30 PM (#5915245)
Daryl Boston is first base coach for the White Sox, so he's still as relevant as a first base coach can be.
   32. DFA Posted: January 13, 2020 at 03:30 PM (#5915246)
I wonder how many sex crimes units are as awful as that? I mean, the detective from the Florida law enforcement office, wow? She made the bed so she must not have been raped? WTF is that? People react to trauma differently. Embarrassing doesn't even begin to describe it. I don't know if she was telling the truth back then or not, but I certainly cannot believe how she reacted immediately afterward can indicate either way.
   33. . Posted: January 13, 2020 at 03:34 PM (#5915250)
I assumed everybody would roll their eyes and return the topic to the rape-ity rape rape.


What rape? I missed the part where they were convicted of any crime; indeed, I thought the outcome of the investigation was that they weren't charged with any crime at all. People 28 years later who've seen none of the evidence, spoken with none of the witnesses, now know better than the people that did the investigation and the people who talked about it on the radio and in the newspapers at length?

OK, then. LOL.

All of which again points out the inherently political objective of the story and the discussion. That's why the story was written; that's why the story was posted.
   34. . Posted: January 13, 2020 at 03:39 PM (#5915255)
I wonder how many sex crimes units are as awful as that? I mean, the detective from the Florida law enforcement office, wow? She made the bed so she must not have been raped? WTF is that? People react to trauma differently. Embarrassing doesn't even begin to describe it. I don't know if she was telling the truth back then or not, but I certainly cannot believe how she reacted immediately afterward can indicate either way.


There's no reason whatever to trust 2020 Slate, of all outlets, to give an honest and objective account of the history of this incident. None. It's amazing, in an ironic way, that the culture of 2020 thinks it has some special insight and ability to reassess the cultures of, say, 1992, when is probably the least objective and rational culture and least capable of doing so that we've seen in decades.

Politics? What politics?!?!?!?!?
   35. Blastin Posted: January 13, 2020 at 03:42 PM (#5915260)
I suppose, if there is a karmic punishment, Gooden's gradual and continual dissolution is more than nothing.
   36. Zonk didn't order a hit on an ambassador Posted: January 13, 2020 at 03:51 PM (#5915270)
I suppose, if there is a karmic punishment, Gooden's gradual and continual dissolution is more than nothing.


The tarp knew that Vince Coleman guy was bad news!
   37. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 13, 2020 at 03:57 PM (#5915280)
Without getting into the question of whether the players were guilty, articles like this are helpful in providing a reminder as to what the investigations and media coverage of these allegations used to be like; they are a helpful answer to the question of "why didn't she report it when it happened"?

There's no reason whatever to trust 2020 Slate, of all outlets, to give an honest and objective account of the history of this incident.

The Slate piece provides numerous quotes, links and details -- feel free to dispute or defend any of the specific descriptions of how the police investigated the alleged crime, or how the press covered it.

Otherwise, nobody's forcing you to be here, and nobody is interested in your vague objections or overtly political posts.
   38. Baldrick Posted: January 13, 2020 at 04:04 PM (#5915288)
For the love of god, people, please stop responding to the troll. This thread is depressing enough just for its basic content.
   39. Blastin Posted: January 13, 2020 at 04:09 PM (#5915291)
[ Ignored Comment ]



Indeed!
   40. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: January 13, 2020 at 04:09 PM (#5915292)
the ignore function is your friend
   41. Harmon "Thread Killer" Microbrew Posted: January 13, 2020 at 04:09 PM (#5915293)
This thread is depressing enough just for its basic content.


Here's a positive:

Those were some great-looking architectural-style diagrams the victim made . . . of the alleged . . . crime . . scene.

On second thought, you're right. This article was a total bummer.
   42. Zonk didn't order a hit on an ambassador Posted: January 13, 2020 at 04:11 PM (#5915294)
Without getting into the question of whether the players were guilty, articles like this are helpful in providing a reminder as to what the investigations and media coverage of these allegations used to be like; they are a helpful answer to the question of "why didn't she report it when it happened"?


Actually, refreshing myself on the wayward Coleman... The following year was when he got suspended for tossing firecrackers into a crowd, sending two kids (including a 2 yo) to the hospital. He also got charged - but pleaded down to what amounted to 200 hours of community service.

I had forgotten that Coleman had a very.... checkered career... from a behavioral perspective... and it continued on for another half dozen years (with additional incidents, though neither rising to the level of these two alleged felonies).

   43. . Posted: January 13, 2020 at 04:21 PM (#5915295)
Without getting into the question of whether the players were guilty, articles like this are helpful in providing a reminder as to what the investigations and media coverage of these allegations used to be like; they are a helpful answer to the question of "why didn't she report it when it happened"?


The investigations and press coverage are still this way, other than, as I noted, outlets like ESPN burying the details of what players are being investigated for or charged with. Her not reporting it when it happened -- actually she did, she just didn't name names right away -- was a small if not non-existent factor in why charges weren't brought, which is clear from reading the story. How exactly do you think these cases are investigated today? The cops and prosecutors talk to witnesses, evaluate forensic evidence, and do their best to figure out what happened and if they conclude that a crime was committed, whether they can prove it to a jury. That's what they did in 1992 and that's what they do in 2020. Here, for what appear to be very solid reasons, they decided not to go forward. That makes the three men non-rapists, no matter how many times people want to defame them. Nor did she avail herself of the lower standard of proof that obtains in civil cases, notwithstanding that they were men of means who could have paid most or all of a verdict had she been able to win one.

I try my best not to defame people as being guilty of serious crimes with which they weren't even charged. It's a bad thing to do. It's really weird to have a post about three men never charged with any crime and then have a bunch of people come on to a public forum and call them rapists and/or insinuate that they are rapists. I have no idea why someone would do that. I will note my objection to that as I see fit and the objection is entirely appropriate.

The Slate piece provides numerous quotes, links and details -- feel free to dispute or defend any of the specific descriptions of how the police investigated the alleged crime, or how the press covered it.


I skim-read the story. Most of it is historical drivel -- not surprising. Seems like a typical investigation and press coverage. She didn't even say who her alleged assailants were for a year. There's nothing newsworthy there. If the claim is that the police in deep South Florida ca. 1992 bent things in favor of three black guys who allegedly raped a white woman, the absurdity of that speaks for itself.

Otherwise, nobody's forcing you to be here, and nobody is interested in your vague objections or overtly political posts.


Right, like I said from the very first, the story is inherently political and was posted for political purposes. People just can't resist, I guess, particularly since their earlier temper tantrums drove away everyone who might contradict their nonsense and got the actual OTP shut down. Pretty low stuff, actually.

   44. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 13, 2020 at 05:26 PM (#5915338)
We had an interesting discussion about Coleman in the context of another thread recently.

Bringing this back to the 1992 Mets, that was probably the team that broke my interest in baseball for a while. I was young and excited about all these stars (or in some cases, "stars") the Mets were bringing in. Eddie Murray! Bobby Bonilla! Willie Randolph! Brett Saberhagen! Vince Coleman! In addition to the homegrown guys they still had. I remember trying to assemble a book of rookie cards of every player on that Mets team.

But Cone was my favorite player; had been for a few years, I think because his first name was also David and he wasn't one of the superstars like Darryl or Doc, who were more popular amongst my friends. I remember watching his 19-K game on t.v. with my grandfather, both of us glued to our seats. I do remember reading about the bullpen accusations at the time, but not the other allegations mentioned in this article.

But after 1992-1993 was such a debacle and the Mets became a laughingstock, it was another 4 years before I closely followed the team, or baseball, again. I remember playing fantasy baseball with my friends, but it was hard to really care about the outcome of the games.
   45. "RMc", the superbatsman Posted: January 13, 2020 at 06:02 PM (#5915352)
Coleman had 40 base-running runs from 1985-87 (a record for a three-year period), and +8 for avoiding DPs and +7 in the field. Unfortunately, it was all perfect cancelled out by his -40 bat and -15 position adjustment, making him a perfectly average (if exciting) player those three years. (After that, the deluge.)

There's no reason whatever to trust 2020 Slate, of all outlets, to give an honest and objective account of the history of this incident.

90% of Slate ain't worth the pixels it's printed on, but I thought this was a good article. A tough read, yes, but worthy of one's time.
   46. Tin Angel Posted: January 13, 2020 at 06:13 PM (#5915358)
But Cone was my favorite player


After '89, as a 12 year old I was convinced Gregg Jefferies was going to be an all time great so he instantly became my favorite. Always liked HoJo a lot too.
   47. base ball chick Posted: January 13, 2020 at 10:29 PM (#5915465)
i think this can be filed under -

if any female of any age is not a known Saint and she had casual sex with anyone ever or didn't dress like phillis schaffly at all times, then she had it coming because you can't rape a trollop. if you screw one guy ever you'll happily screw anybody

any person who gets raped MUST act exactly perfectly in a specified stereotyped manner or they are lying.

- also, baseball players are trollops. they just don't get raped for it
   48. . Posted: January 14, 2020 at 07:07 AM (#5915503)
I doubt the case would have been brought if these were the only men she'd ever had sex with in her life. There's nothing in the story indicating that her "promiscuity" had anything to do with the decision not to prosecute. We really should focus more on the actual facts of these cases and the reality/difficulty of winning verdicts in trials, and less on porting and imposing our one-size-fits-all intuitive/political templates to every single one of these situations.

any person who gets raped MUST act exactly perfectly in a specified stereotyped manner or they are lying.


It's not that they're lying; it's that the actions are entirely consistent with consensual sex -- for example, the admitted kisses goodnight (*) -- which gives the prosecution a massive uphill battle right off the bat. That's a very hard one to explain away to a jury. Yeah, it could be trauma-based, it could be smoothing the path to an easier exit, there could be an alternative explanation -- but good luck trying to convince a jury of laypeople off the street of that, when the applicable standard is beyond a reasonable doubt.

(*) Which aren't even just consistent with consensual sex, but a typical and almost inherent constituent part. Nor was there the chance here to be able to explain it away by the woman needing to maintain good relations for business purposes, as might be possible if it was a situation of co-workers or boss-subordinate or two people in the same line of business.
   49. PreservedFish Posted: January 14, 2020 at 08:14 AM (#5915509)
After '89, as a 12 year old I was convinced Gregg Jefferies was going to be an all time great so he instantly became my favorite. Always liked HoJo a lot too.


I was 8, and my dad told me he'd be an all time great. Jefferies was my favorite player of all time.
   50. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 14, 2020 at 09:53 AM (#5915535)
Like I said, the article is a helpful time capsule/synthesis reminding us of how these type of situations were regarded and treated not that long ago. I'm not saying the players were definitely guilty, but there are certainly reasons to believe the police did not rigorously investigate the case:

Scott Bartal, the Port St. Lucie police officer who supervised the investigation, also didn’t believe that Powell was telling the truth. “There were things that just didn’t line up,” he told me. The fact that she’d made the bed and kissed the players goodnight didn’t fit with his idea of how someone would respond to having suffered through a traumatizing event.

...

He also told me he thought it was suspicious that both [Bowman and Powell] claimed to have been raped on the same night.

In Bartal’s view, the most damning detail of all concerned the conversation that Powell reported having had with Boston a few days after the alleged rape—their “mum’s the word” exchange. “That sealed it,” he told me—he didn’t believe that someone who’d been assaulted would say anything like that to her attacker. When Powell mentioned that phrase during her final five-hour interview with the police, Bartal perked up. “The victim knew that I knew that it wasn’t really as she had reported it,” he told me. Bartal also said he believed Powell had picked up Gooden at Banana Max—that she’d made “goo-goo eyes” at him—to punish David Cone for not spending time with her that night. “She figured that if she’d go with Dwight Gooden, David Cone would get jealous.”

The transcript of that final police interview ends with Bartal telling Powell: “To be perfectly frank with you [Cindy], I’ve got a lot of problems with your story.” He turns off the tape recorder shortly thereafter at Powell’s request, and the transcript ends.


The police never talked to the players.
   51. . Posted: January 14, 2020 at 02:08 PM (#5915682)
Is your position that police should be dragging citizens off the street and interrogating them about crimes they don't believe happened or don't believe can be proven?

Police don't do that today, either, for what hopefully are obvious reasons.
   52. . Posted: January 14, 2020 at 04:58 PM (#5915752)
As the Slate piece notes, the Times covered the investigation at length:

The three New York Mets players who were accused of raping a woman here last year will not face criminal charges, a state prosecutor said today, because the case lacks corroborating evidence and comes down "to the word of a victim against that of three individuals."

Bruce H. Colton, the state attorney of the 19th Judicial Circuit of Florida, said the case against the players, Dwight Gooden, Daryl Boston and Vince Coleman, was not strong enough to bring before a jury with much likelihood of success.

Officials in Colton's office called the case "vulnerable" after a monthlong investigation by the police.

"After painstaking analysis and receiving input from the victim and the Port St. Lucie Police Department, we have concluded that our duty in this case is to decline prosecution," said David C. Morgan, assistant state attorney in charge of the St. Lucie County office.

He said the decision was "not easy," but that it would have been hard to prove that any sexual relations the woman may have had with the players was not consensual.

After learning of the prosecutors' decision, the three players offered muted statements of relief, but suggested there was little that could undo the damage the case had had on their reputations.

"We've all been hurt, especially me," said Mr. Gooden after the Mets played the Cardinals today in St. Louis. "I'm happy it's over. But I was confident throughout." [ Page B16. ]

Mr. Colton said the woman was informed of his decision on Tuesday. Her lawyer, Bernard Dempsey of Orlando, called her "deeply disappointed" and said she understood that the state had "a difficult task."

"On the other hand, my client is comfortable in the knowledge that she told the authorities the absolute truth," Mr. Dempsey said. He said that he and the woman would discuss "what other relief is available to her," a suggestion, possibly, that she was considering a civil suit.

In announcing the results of the case, Mr. Colton said his office had reviewed 450 pages of documents for six days.

Among the case's shortcomings, Mr. Colton said, were "the fact that she did not report this right away, the fact that there was no corroboration, the fact that these were people who were at least acquainted with each other." He also noted that there was no medical examination of the woman directly after the night in question.

Investigators said the only piece of physical evidence in the case was a semen-stained dress that was neither torn nor ripped. Tests showed a high likelihood that the semen came from Gooden. No physical evidence appeared to link Mr. Coleman or Mr. Boston to the woman, investigators said today.

The woman, who is 31 and lives in Manhattan, told the police that she met Mr. Gooden, Mr. Boston and Mr. Coleman by chance in a popular nightclub in nearby Jupiter, Fla. on March 29, 1991.

The woman was a seasonal resident in the area, police said. It was after giving Mr. Gooden a ride to his rented house in Port St. Lucie that she said she was pushed into a bedroom by Mr. Gooden and raped by him and by Mr. Boston and Mr. Coleman, who were already in the house when she and Mr. Gooden arrived.

At one point, the woman told police, one of the players offered her an autographed picture of himself in some apparent compensation for sex.

The woman told police that after she had been raped repeatedly in the early morning hours of March 30, 1991, she showered and made the bed before leaving the Gooden house.

Back in New York, four days passed before she said she realized what had happened, said Mr. Colton. It was then, he said, that she first contacted the Port St. Lucie police, although she did not leave her name or identify the players. Almost a year would pass before she formally filed a complaint of rape on March 3. Hard to Explain, Says Colton

"I can't explain that she did not realize that she was a victim," Mr. Colton said during a 30-minute news conference held in his office in Fort Pierce. He said it was not unusual for sexual-assault victims to have the realization of the assault "dawn" on them slowly.

Officials of the Port St. Lucie Police Department and Mr. Colton and members of his staff dodged the question of whether they thought a crime had actually been committed.

Police records indicate that the police gave the woman a computer voice-stress test to help them determine whether she was being truthful in her rape allegations.

Mr. Morgan and Mr. Colton said the test, which is not admissible in court, did show some "deceptions" in testimony to investigators. They cautioned that neither her stress test nor the polygraph-test results that the players voluntarily submitted to police played a major role in reaching a decision in the case. File Is Released

The 450-page file in the case was made public today under Florida law. The files reveal that police interviewed more than two-dozen witnesses, including Met pitcher David Cone and former Met pitcher Ron Darling.

Both the woman and Mr. Cone told police they had dated each other last spring. The woman, in a handwritten statement she gave to police, said she had gone to the Mets' spring training complex not long after the incident to see Mr. Cone pitch. She said that during the game both Mr. Coleman and Mr. Boston waved to her and that she reluctantly waved back.

Mr. Cone told police that he later learned from Mr. Darling that the woman was charging that she had been raped. Mr. Cone said that he never spoke to his three teammates about her allegations.


I don't really see a lot that's dated there. The investigation was reported on at length. The prosecutor's office publicly explained their reasoning and released the entire investigative file to the public. They interviewed two-dozen witnesses. The head prosecutor explicitly gave credence to the idea that it wasn't unusual for the victim to have what really happened dawn on them slowly. The victim's (alleged) name wasn't released and still hasn't been to this day.

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