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Baseball Primer Newsblog — The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand Friday, July 22, 2011Souhan: Bert Blyleven could be the final old-time Twin to get the Cooperstown call.Sorry, I never actually read the complete “Dwight Siebler for the HOF!” petition pledge when I signed it.
Repoz
Posted: July 22, 2011 at 11:05 AM | 11 comment(s)
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1. spike Posted: July 22, 2011 at 04:11 PM (#3883284)Oliva has a reasonable case to a strong peak voter. I don't see him as one of the top 10 exclusions, but I would not be bothered if he were inducted.
I feel a bit sad that one of the effects of my number crunching (and the shocking development that some people actually pay attention to it) has done no favors to the chances of Kaat getting in. He's got 41 WAR, way too low for a career candidate, and he's certainly no peak candidate either. His best full season ERA+ is 131. Compare that to guys who were considered "accumulators" but not dominant pitchers: Sutton and Blyleven. Blyleven had years of 158, 151, Sutton had a 162 and 161. Should have just let well enough alone, and let the writers say "If Blyleven gets in with 287, why not Kaat at 283?"
I see Baseball Prospectus has Kaat at 61 WARP, though I'm not sure if we are on the same scale. I'm charging him 50 runs over his career for pitching in front of strong defense, but Kaat won 16 gold gloves, maybe we was the one saving those runs. That would move him up to around 46 WAR, still not a case I can make with logic instead of fandom.
Regardless of the numbers, he's still one of my favorites from when I first started watching the game and collecting baseball cards, and being at first shocked at the much smaller print needed to get all his seasons on the back of his card, and then straining to see that he began pitching in 1959. The summer of 1982 I followed two teams regularly - the Angels that drew my fandom through fate more than anything else, and the Cardinals since they were the parent team of the Louisville Redbirds, my residence at the time. They should have met in the World Series. Many years into the future I named my cat after players on those teams: Brian Downing Kaat.
Not very well thought out list though. Waite Hoyt the worst pitcher in the Hall? I think Marquard and Haines, just to name 2, are far worse. Johnny Evers the second worst? I think Evers is a fine selection. Maybe a little below average, but not even the second worst middle infielder (Mazeroski, Travis Jackson, Maranville).
Ha! #### yeah!
Maybe not a slam dunk, but not far away from one.
Tinker is the only peculiar one of the three, and even he has some good things going for him (his glove at _the_ glove position).
Agreed. Top WAR of 8.4, 6.4, 6.1, 5.9 while simultaneously managing one of the greatest teams ever. Better player than Albert Bell, and I doubt many would have Belle on a "worst players in the HOF" list if Belle were elected.
Chang yes, Eng no way.
As for the others of the trio: I once voted for Johnny Evers in a HoM election. I dropped my support, in part because no one else was going along. And while I don't think I ever voted for Joe Tinker, I could understand it if someone else did. As Voros said, he has some good things going for him.
The problem with electing Joe Tinker to the HoF isn't really Tinker himself. He was a fine ballplayer, and an important piece of a great team. The problem lies with electing Tinker on the basis of incomplete historical information while simultaneously overlooking both George Davis and Bill Dahlen. (And Dahlen is still not in the HoF.)
As for Kaat, I have trouble with keeping straight whether he or Tommy John has the better argument. As I see it, John has a better case, on a career basis, although Kaat has a slight edge over John in top-end seasons. Not that peak is any kind of argument for either of them.
Mark Twain's story about these two is totally worth seeking out.
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