The advanced metrics have never thought all that much of JBJ's defense. And Derek Jeter won gold gloves. So . . .

Statcast likes Bradley.

Is Cain not coming back?

Cain is slated for right field. Avi Garcia looks to spend more time on the bench.

Cain is slated for right field.

Cain projects better, both offensively and defensively, even with the lost season. Bradley is better than Garcia though.

Cain should play CF though.

Cain missed all of last year, and has always had injuries, so this is a hedge. They have said they're going to rest Cain a lot early on. And Avisail Garcia sucks defensively, so it might be nice to get him off the field a lot.

Cain is 35 so moving to a corner is probably the right move. Not too many CFs are strong defenders at that age.

Age 35+, top rfield for players with at least 75% of games in center

Willie Mays +18, 1966
Devon White, +12, 1998
Fielder Jones, +10, 1907. Unlike Cecil and Prince, he was named appropriately.
Al Bumbry, +10, 1982

I would have loved thi deal for the Mets.

Cain is 35 so moving to a corner is probably the right move. Not too many CFs are strong defenders at that age.

True but the 2019 metrics shot him still being a fantastic CF (+22 DRS, +9 UZR) while Bradley has been averagish.

A few of my Red Sox fans were upset today when they saw this news, saying some form of, "He would have signed a two-year deal with Boston, and that would have bought time for the young guys to develop, etc." But Boston is not really playing for a deep playoff run or anything in 2021 - this is another year to figure out which young talent is worth building around, and JBJ would have simply taken playing time from guys later this year and in 2022 who were part of that process.

I enjoyed watching him play, and for the month a year he was on a hitting streak, he looked like the best player in baseball. The problem was that baseball is played for many months every year, and he often would go long, long stretches as an absolute sinkhole at the plate.

It is hard to believe it was not long ago that the Red Sox had the best young outfield in baseball, "The Killer B's".

Typical Red Sox, losing their players to bigger markets in Milwaukee and Kansas City.

JBJ would have simply taken playing time from guys later this year and in 2022 who were part of that process.

I've stopped worrying about taking playing time from the young 'uns. If they're any good, they'll end up forcing the decision.

. Is Cain not coming back?

Bad news: He got COVID and died after the Tulsa rally.

Somebody must really not like Odorizzi.

Not too many CFs are strong defenders at that age.

Not strong ones no but we can add Cameron, Finley and Lofton as reasonably recent guys who remained average or a bit better into their mid-late 30s. As noted, Rfield (I assume the numbers you were using) loves Cain (18 and 22 in 2018-19) while it considers Bradley average over 2018-19 (but pretty fantasitic in 20). Anyway, barring injury, it's hard to imagine Cain has dropped to below-average already so the decision should be at most a toss-up between the two.

A few of my Red Sox fans were upset today when they saw this news, saying some form of, "He would have signed a two-year deal with Boston, and that would have bought time for the young guys to develop, etc."

Would he have signed a two-year deal in Boston? Who was the last Black player the Red Sox had who signed a contract to stay with the team when he reached free agency? I know wording it that way tosses out David Price & Carl Crawford, both of whom weren't with Boston until after they signed the contract. I'm talking about Black players who played for the Red Sox and when they had a choice to return decided to do so.

Are we not counting David Ortiz as black?

Jim Rice scared the front office into an extension.

Well, there's Ellis Burks, if you ignore the 11-year gap...

(If, as is mentioned, we're not counting David Ortiz, and I'm trying to remember whether the only extension Pedro Martinez signed was between being traded and playing his first game.)

Are we not counting David Ortiz as black?

If you do, his last contract signed with Boston was in 2014.

I'm trying to remember whether the only extension Pedro Martinez signed was between being traded and playing his first game.

That was the only contract he signed with Boston, but it was after his first season with the team. It covered 1998 through 2003 guaranteed, with an option for 2004. After 2004 he left for the Mets.

16, many Americans tend to not accept that Latin Americans can be black or white or chinese or whatever.

It's odd, really.

16, many Americans tend to not accept that Latin Americans can be black or white or chinese or whatever.

It's odd, really.

Very odd since half of Hispanics self-report as white, and many other as black.

One of the Hollywood trades described Anya Taylor-Joy as a woman of color because she's Argentinian when she won something at the Golden Globes, and... she's decidedly not that.

I'm guessing she's Argentinian even when not winning things at the Golden Globes. :-)

16, many Americans tend to not accept that Latin Americans can be black or white or chinese or whatever.

It's odd, really.

Some american born black players don't feel that black latin american players count as 'blacks' either. Torii Hunter called black Latin American players 'imposters'. To some degree I get it, but at other times the whole 'there's no more black players in MLB anymore' really heavily depends on the numbers being discussed. Fewer black players overall? Sure. %-wise? Not really, not when you account for the larger pool of players.


And I will be super happy when the whole "Boston is a terribly racist city and black athletes hate it" becomes a part of history, and not a current events topic.

22, absolutely.

But the nuance that is lost is that Ms. Taylor-Joy is of Argentinean heritage (though born in Miami), but of mostly British ancestry.

I don't expect most Americans to know much about Latin American immigration patterns, but Argentina & Uruguay (and to lesser extents, Brasil and Chile) received HUGE numbers of immigrants from Europe (mostly, but not solely from Southern Europe). This included a material number of British immigrants.

So the question then becomes, is Ms. Taylor-Joy a "woman of color"? Of course not.

But Variety (the source of what you mention), then proceeded to compound the issue by stating that Ms. Taylor-Joy "identifies" as a "White Latina".

I don't know exactly what Ms. Taylor-Joy's people wrote to Variety, but I suspect that Ms. Taylor-Joy is quite happy being "White" AND "Latina", because she's clearly BOTH.

To bring it back to baseball, this is where 24's comments seem so important to me. It's profoundly silly for Torii Hunter to think that black Latin Americans players are "imposters". But I will grant that Latin American players have a certain amount of extra nuance, in that they can be "Black" AND "Latino" (or in the case of a Mike Lowell or a Francisco Cervelli, "White" AND "Latino", or in the case of my countryman Bruce Chen, "Chinese" AND "Latino").

Torii Hunter has said many strange things over the years so I won't claim to know his thinking for sure but everything makes a lot more sense if you substitute "African-American" for "Black." African-American culture and history is of course much different than Afro-Carribbean (which has many sub-cultures) which itself is much different than African-Brazlilian and African-Central American ... and all quite different than the many African cultures.

It's not particularly difficult to understand that, within the US context, "Black" generally is taken as African-American. Sammy Sosa and Frank Robinson were from very different cultures and were therefore quite different in ethnicity regardless of what "race" they are. To equate them because of the color of their skin would be silly. While I agree that the influx of foreign players creates minor conceptual and measurement challenges, everybody concerned about the decline in "Black" players is concernced about the decline in African-American players and I'm pretty sure every single person here knows that. So can we stop pretending otherwise.

Note, some Aborigines in Australia have adopted (or re-purposed from the pejorative) "Black" (sometimes as "Blak") in reference to their communities and people, regardless of skin color, and we have our own Black Lives Matter movement here. (It remains generally offensive for a non-Aboriginal person to use "Black" in this way.) I have also heard some references of Maori as "Black" although I have heard it only in the context of identification with minorities in other countries.

It's not particularly difficult to understand that, within the US context, "Black" generally is taken as African-American. Sammy Sosa and Frank Robinson were from very different cultures and were therefore quite different in ethnicity regardless of what "race" they are. To equate them because of the color of their skin would be silly. While I agree that the influx of foreign players creates minor conceptual and measurement challenges, everybody concerned about the decline in "Black" players is concernced about the decline in African-American players and I'm pretty sure every single person here knows that. So can we stop pretending otherwise.

You are correct, african american and latin american are different culturally, regardless of their skin color. What bugs me is the depressive attitude when discussing african american participation within the game. It typically reads as 'there is a lower % of african americans in MLB, and therefore MLB as a whole is whiter' - when that is not the case. We had a discussion not too long ago about a player saying he felt out of place on the team because their were only a few african american coaches. Turns out in order to match the US % of african americans the team would have had to employ 1 additional african american coach.

This is not to take away from the general lack of 'people of color' in the coaching and managerial levels of MLB. Overall the power structure does need to be balanced - it is far too much of a good old white boys network, or an up and coming smart white boy network. I just get irked when a specific subset is seemingly raised above others.

Torii Hunter has said many strange things over the years so I won't claim to know his thinking for sure but everything makes a lot more sense if you substitute "African-American" for "Black." African-American culture and history is of course much different than Afro-Carribbean (which has many sub-cultures) which itself is much different than African-Brazlilian and African-Central American ... and all quite different than the many African cultures.

It's not particularly difficult to understand that, within the US context, "Black" generally is taken as African-American. Sammy Sosa and Frank Robinson were from very different cultures and were therefore quite different in ethnicity regardless of what "race" they are.

And I'm sure there is similar cultural diversity among white players. A white player from Cuba, and one from backwoods Kentucky, and one from an affluent CA suburb are going to come from completely different cultural milieus. Not to even mention "Asian" players.

It's almost like characterizing people by shallow surface features, and expecting them to be the same is a dumb idea.