¯\_(ツ)_/¯

opening day starter for the red sox next year?

He’s going to be a great buy for some team that doesn’t care when LAD trades him or releases him. Seems like NY will need to be his new home.

I figure Houston - they took Osuna from the Jays after similar issues. Worked out well for the Jays with Giles (and 2 prospects who did nothing in David Paulino and Hector Perez). Giles got 38 saves and one blown, Osuna 51-6 in saves/blown (plus 3 playoff saves and 1 blown but his team won that game in the end).

Yeah I can see the Astros owner giving the league a big F U - I like it. Perfect fit

ESPN had an article a couple of weeks ago in which their anonymous sources said they don't think Bauer will play in MLB again. He might be suspended all of next year (or longer) or, if he's charged, then there's an easy way for them to suspend him with pay until the legal matters are resolved. I believe they could then pursue a suspension without pay after the legal resolution.

ESPN story

The union won't want to touch this with a 30-foot pole, especially if Bauer gets paid. If he's charged, my guess is he'll never play again. (Possibly a quick Ozuna-style outcome would leave him with some chance to play again.) If he's not charged, he'll still be suspended for all of 2022 at least and nobody will be in a hurry to bring him on but somebody might.

The union won't want to touch this with a 30-foot pole, especially if Bauer gets paid. If he's charged, my guess is he'll never play again. (Possibly a quick Ozuna-style outcome would leave him with some chance to play again.) If he's not charged, he'll still be suspended for all of 2022 at least and nobody will be in a hurry to bring him on but somebody might.

odubel herrera has started 89 games for the phillies this year. trevor bauer is substantially better than odubel herrera.

bauer will be a rocky by mid 2022.

Sure. But Odubel Herrera is generally unknown outside of Philly, he didn't win an MVP, he hasn't had a habit of thrusting himself into the spotlight by saying controversial things, his return didn't draw big national headlines. Nobody liked Bauer before this and he's gone from PR liability to PR nightmare.

For Bauer not to be charged, it would seem that the DA would have to find that his accuser wasn’t credible. Should that be the case, it would be difficult for MLB to suspend Bauer longer than those who have been charged and/or convicted. The union has a pretty strong interest in preventing MLB from suspending Bauer not based on the legal situation but just to save the Dodgers money, so I wouldn’t be sure they roll on this just because of Bauer’s unpopularity. Now, that’s not to say that Bauer won’t be charged, but the process does seem to be taking longer than one would expect if it were an ‘open & shut’ case. Might be worth waiting on the DA before making definitive pronouncements.

So far there is zero evidence he did anything that warrants a suspension without pay much less arrest. His accuser appears to have lied to/misled the court. All the “facts” from this case are from her statement, none of which have been corroborated by police, DA, Bauer. The judge in the restraining order case was completely unsympathetic which sends up big warning flares.

The case from Ohio was a case where Bauer called the police on a woman (whom they then arrested!). She subsequently filed charges and it went nowhere.

Is there some “truth” in there somewhere - maybe. Is that “truth” evidence of a crime/domestic violence - maybe but hardly likely given that in neither case have the police acted.

The union should absolutely want to protect him. These players are constantly pursued by, for lack of a better term, “baseball annies”. Many players can look at this and say “that could have happened to me”. By her own testimony she had had previous relationships with Tatis jr and clevinger.
What is “that”? Destruction of their reputation, ability to earn a living, extortion etc.

Who knows what the real story is but I have to think there are a lot of union members that will want the union to fight this (absent some concrete evidence of malfeasance).

Having said all that, i despise Bauer but for the law/society to work it has to protect jerks too. Otherwise it’s just mob rule.

If the DA were going to act here, it likely would have already - I expect they are doing the Dodgers a favor by not dropping the case during the season - come November they will quietly drop the investigation and leave it in the lap of MLB

Should that be the case, it would be difficult for MLB to suspend Bauer longer than those who have been charged and/or convicted.

I agree. If that should be the case, what exactly do they (ESPN) think the MLB separate investigation is going to find? The ESPN articles makes that an issue but I dont see it. So they find it was consensual rough sex. Is that a violation? THe passage quoted in the article only referred non consenual stuff, nothing about consensual.

odubel herrera has started 89 games for the phillies this year. trevor bauer is substantially better than odubel herrera.

That was a simple assault charge, and the girlfriend dropped the charges. It didn't have the allegations of choking the woman unconscious and raping her. The level of crime alleged isn't even close.

I agree. If that should be the case, what exactly do they (ESPN) think the MLB separate investigation is going to find? The ESPN articles makes that an issue but I dont see it. So they find it was consensual rough sex. Is that a violation? THe passage quoted in the article only referred non consenual stuff, nothing about consensual.

Presumably MLB can find it non-consensual, even if the state doesn't have enough evidence to prosecute. MLB isn't bound by "beyond a reasonable doubt". If they think there's a 75% likelihood that Bauer choked and raped the woman, they can punish him.

there's a legal ruling by a judge that says it was consensual. I guess if you put your head in the sand deep enough you can find anything you want.

Sure. But Odubel Herrera is generally unknown outside of Philly, he didn't win an MVP, he hasn't had a habit of thrusting himself into the spotlight by saying controversial things, his return didn't draw big national headlines. Nobody liked Bauer before this and he's gone from PR liability to PR nightmare.

i liked bauer before this.

the guy's always been an #######, sure, but he was self-aware of it, which puts him in the top 1% of ######## everywhere. i might be misunremembering some things, but i don't think bauer went out of his way to make trouble for other people (a la aj pierzynski), and he was willing to have fun with it. this is all beside the point now, but my impression of him was that he just wanted/needed to always do things his way, and he wasn't willing to compromise on it* without a 12 hour argument.


*this impression goes back to when bauer was drafted by arizona. they told him to stop long tossing and he told them to #### the #### off with that.

That was a simple assault charge, and the girlfriend dropped the charges. It didn't have the allegations of choking the woman unconscious and raping her. The level of crime alleged isn't even close.

your moral compass is broken.

your moral compass is broken.

You think hitting somebody in the face (without serious injury) is in the same ballpark as choking someone unconscious and then raping them? I think most have gotten punched in the face at some point in our life, and shrugged it off. The later is in an entire different league.

You think hitting somebody in the face (without serious injury) is in the same ballpark as choking someone unconscious and then raping them? I think most have gotten punched in the face at some point in our life, and shrugged it off. The later is in an entire different league.

you know what, you might be right. i go around punching women and dragging them through casinos all the time. #sarcasm (just in case)

you know what, you might be right. i go around punching women and dragging them through casinos all the time. #sarcasm (just in case)

You're being your typically obtuse self. It's bad behavior, but it's nothing close to nearly killing and raping someone. One, if proved, gets you up to 18 months (simple assault in NJ), the other gets you 20 years.

Depends on whether you're a decent pitcher or not, apparently. Pathetic.

You're being your typically obtuse self. It's bad behavior, but it's nothing close to nearly killing and raping someone. One, if proved, gets you up to 18 months (simple assault in NJ), the other gets you 20 years.

tax evasion will also get you 20 years in prison.


any time you'd like to stop diminishing various acts of violence against women because they're not violent enough in your opinion, that would be great.

I mean, OJ was physically violent with Nicole a bunch of times, but he only killed her that one time. It's definitely not part of a pattern or anything.

here's a fun little quiz for the absolute moral relativists out there...which of these is not like the others:

A: 0 days in prison
B: 1 day in prison
C: 20 years in prison

Both are bad, but I agree with snapper that rape / sexual assault is (usually) qualitatively different than ordinary physical assault. Didn't know that was a controversial position.

Both are bad, but I agree with snapper that rape / sexual assault is (usually) qualitatively different than ordinary physical assault. Didn't know that was a controversial position

It isn't, but just because they can't prove rape doesn't mean rape didn't happen. Don't cases get plead down, or they stick with the lesser charges, for that reason?

It’s not clear Bauer did ANY of the things alleged. So it’s silly to argue what’s worse when it’s more likely than not at this point that he didn’t do anything that wasn’t requested. Maybe the LAPD is sitting on a bombshell indictment that’s been sitting in a drawer for the last three months…. That happens all the time, doesn’t it ?

It isn't, but just because they can't prove rape doesn't mean rape didn't happen. Don't cases get plead down, or they stick with the lesser charges, for that reason?

This is a weird conversation. Are you saying that you think Osuna might have raped someone, despite nobody ever having alleged that anywhere?

It’s not clear Bauer did ANY of the things alleged. So it’s silly to argue what’s worse when it’s more likely than not at this point that he didn’t do anything that wasn’t requested.

Well, certain things can't be requested, legally speaking. So, he could have followed the victim's instruction to the letter and still be guilty of multiple felonies.

In any case, anyone who would beat the crap out of a woman to get his jollies, deserves whatever punishment he gets.

snapper, why is that any different than any other weird kink? FWIW, I have a female friend who has confessed that she has a rape kink and asks her partners to roleplay rape. And I'm not sure that's particularly uncommon. If he gets his jollies by beating women, and there are women out their who get their jollies by being beaten, then I wish them a long and happy life of ####-kicking sex.

TL; DR: If this truly was consensual, then Bauer is getting a raw deal and shouldn't be judged.

If he gets his jollies by beating women, and there are women out their who get their jollies by being beaten,

You really don’t see any asymmetry here?

TL; DR: If you’re a man who gets his jollies by beating women, you’re a sociopath. Period.

but i don't think bauer went out of his way to make trouble for other people (a la aj pierzynski)

Didn't he (and a bunch of his incel followers) go out of their way to harass a woman online?

I'm not into kink shaming. If you believe women should have agency over their bodies and sex lives, then you should generally let them do the things they want to do with the people they want to do them with, and not judge either party in those relationships (absent evidence of coercion or someone lacking the capacity to consent).

That being said, the woman in this situation claims she did not consent to having certain things done to her while unconscious. The fact that she consented to rough sex doesn't necessarily contradict that, but it probably makes it tougher to convince a jury. I didn't follow the restraining order hearing enough to know the basis of the judge's ruling or what, if any, evidence Bauer's side presented to rebut her claims.

i might be misunremembering some things, but i don't think bauer went out of his way to make trouble for other people

Didn't he (and a bunch of his incel followers) go out of their way to harass a woman online?

Yes.

TL; DR: If this truly was consensual, then Bauer is getting a raw deal and shouldn't be judged.

I've mentioned this before, and I can't believe this needs to be said: nobody's kink is getting their skull fractured. I know most people are just spitballing here about BDSM, D/s, etc, but I am not. A surprisingly large number of people like rough sex, and fantasy rape/force roleplay isn't unusual, but that doesn't those people actually want to get raped or hurt. Occasionally, someone with an actual deathwish makes their way into the news, but those are true outliers. The actual number in subset of those people who are into hardplay and want their bones snapped or suffer long-term injury is right around zero.

It’s not clear Bauer did ANY of the things alleged.

It's not even in dispute that these things happened. Bauer's team hasn't denied that he did damage, they're alleging that the woman asked for the damage.

The people who are trying to frame this as Bauer getting railroaded are simply full of ####. An intrinsic element of a total power exchange is that the one in power (in this case, Bauer) takes responsibility for the health and safety of the person they're topping, because the sub won't be in a position to do it themselves. That's tough in a court of law because of the complicated nature of a TPE, but anyone familiar with TPE immediately recognizes the reckless and careless nature of Bauer's actions to have left his sub with those injuries. The mantra for those in the D/s/BDSM community is "safe, sane, consensual." One out of three isn't good enough.

If he were a cellphone salesman, people would just say, "Hey, crime." But since Bauer has an impossible amount of money and an extremely valuable skill, people are all, "Hey, maybe my team can take advantage of of this situation." That tells you all you need to know about that person.

snapper, why is that any different than any other weird kink? FWIW, I have a female friend who has confessed that she has a rape kink and asks her partners to roleplay rape. And I'm not sure that's particularly uncommon. If he gets his jollies by beating women, and there are women out their who get their jollies by being beaten, then I wish them a long and happy life of ####-kicking sex.

If you're doing actual physical harm, you've crossed the line. That's not a kink, that's assault and battery. Consent shouldn't matter. If a person is in such a bad place that they "consent" to getting physically harmed, the law should still protect them. That person needs help not a kink buddy.

Rape fantasies are different than actual rape; the woman can still stop it at any time. When the person is unconscious, it's just plain rape.

33. Bauer’s representatives issued a statement in July. You should read it carefully. He doesn’t admit to anything. His team says they have messages between the two parties discussing rough sex. It goes on to say that she drove to his house, they discussed what she wanted and he complied. What that is is not enumerated. He then took the 5th in restraining order hearing

ALL the allegations are in dispute. He’s admitted to discussing various things in texts and to having a consensual relationship at his house. She’s the one alleging assault and he denies it. It’s that simple right now.

I don’t believe it is correct to say Bauer ever agreed with his accuser’s account, it’s quite the opposite even. There is also considerable dispute about the extent of the injuries. There was never any skull fracture, and I believe the Judge handling the protective order noted that in assessing credibility. The TL; DR version of that case was that the accuser wanted rough sex in the 1st encounter, and rougher sex the 2nd time. That makes it somewhat difficult to claim the 1st encounter crossed the line. Now that is not to say that Bauer couldn’t face charges, or be convicted, but folks shouldn’t assume that the accuser’s account is still the only evidence or that there can be no doubt about her veracity. The DA should have a lot more to go on, and any trial would produce even more info.

This is a weird conversation. Are you saying that you think Osuna might have raped someone, despite nobody ever having alleged that anywhere?

I was talking about Bauer.

It should be noted that said Judge described her injuries as 'terrible.' The disturbing photos of her are out there, and I didn't see any indication that Bauer's team is denying he caused those injuries - just that it was consensual. He's probably off the hook legally because of said 'consent,' but considering his past history with violence and harassing/belittling women, this is a very questionable human being.

There's a reason the players' union is half-assing his defense. There's also a reason MLB is going to suspend him for a long time.

It should be noted that said Judge described her injuries as 'terrible.' The disturbing photos of her are out there, and I didn't see any indication that Bauer's team is denying he caused those injuries - just that it was consensual. He's probably off the hook legally because of said 'consent,

I honestly don't see why that's a defense against beating the crap out of someone. If he choked her to death, or badly burned her, consent wouldn't cover him, not sure why it should for other injuries.

ALL the allegations are in dispute. He’s admitted to discussing various things in texts and to having a consensual relationship at his house. She’s the one alleging assault and he denies it. It’s that simple right now.

He actually doesn't deny assault. He denies lack of consent. Like, his attorney volunteered the information that his accuser sought treatment for a concussion after their encounter. Other than that, Bauer's camp is not commenting in public on whether he assaulted her.

However, in court, his camp did not contest the allegations of assault. In court, the accuser stated that Bauer repeatedly punched her in the face and body, choked her unconscious, and attempted to have sex with her while she was unconscious. His camp's only argument in defense was that she consented, although in the process they presented texts between the two in which Bauer admitted having punched her while she was unconscious - which one cannot legally consent to. They also, in an attempt to demonstrate that the accuser was capable of waiving consent and Bauer was willing to stop if requested, brought up that when she regained consciousness she found he was having anal sex with her, and she told him to stop, and he did. While, yes, that does demonstrate Bauer was willing to stop if asked, it also demonstrates he had anal sex with her while she was unconscious. For a camp that is "denying it", stipulating in court that he engaged in anal sex while she was unconscious is kind of the opposite of that.

pass

I honestly don't see why that's a defense against beating the crap out of someone. If he choked her to death, or badly burned her, consent wouldn't cover him, not sure why it should

So, every boxer, MMA fighter, and NFL player should be in prison?

(For the record, I am not defending Bauer here because I don’t know whether the woman gave consent — she claims she didn’t. However, I disagree with the notion that one cannot ever consent to having the crap beaten out of them.)

#42 I think the Marty McSorley case is instructive here. There are plenty of interactions in hockey (even against the rules -- fighting for instance) that could be a criminal act. McSorley basically went beyond what the players implicitly consented to. Similarly Dino Cicarelli and a handful of other cases.

EDIT: And in boxing, people have been prosecuted for things like illegal wraps.

#43, sure. The point is that a person can legally consent to being hit. Whether Bauer went beyond what the woman consented to or what a person can legally consent to is the question.

So, every boxer, MMA fighter, and NFL player should be in prison?

I'd have no issue banning boxing and MMA, but are you going to ignore the fact that the violence is mutual, and under the supervision of professional officials?

It gets kind of awkward to have referees for rough sex but I guess that could be useful

I'd have no issue banning boxing and MMA, but are you going to ignore the fact that the violence is mutual, and under the supervision of professional officials?

Not that the "snapper legal code" is relevant here, but you'd be fine with what Bauer did if the woman had been allowed to hit back?

Do you think it's illegal for adults to play football or spar in the ring without professional supervision? (I suspect you will say that people sparring are not actually trying to injure one another. People who have rough sex would likely say the same thing.)

Not that the "snapper legal code" is relevant here, but you'd be fine with what Bauer did if the woman had been allowed to hit back?


It would make Bauer less of a psychopath.

Do you think it's illegal for adults to play football or spar in the ring without professional supervision? (I suspect you will say that people sparring are not actually trying to injure one another. People who have rough sex would likely say the same thing.)

No, but I think if they seriously injure someone, either through negligence or excessive "zeal", then they should face criminal charges. Otherwise, you give psychopaths a potential get out of jail free card, which is what the "rough sex defense" has been for ever. I still remember the "Preppy Killer" from the 1980's.

No, but I think if they seriously injure someone, either through negligence or excessive "zeal", then they should face criminal charges. Otherwise, you give psychopaths a potential get out of jail free card, which is what the "rough sex defense" has been for ever. I still remember the "Preppy Killer" from the 1980's.

Fair enough, and that's more germane to the specifics of this case.

And as I believe others have noted, this isn't precisely a legal matter. So beyond a legal doubt doesn't apply. It's basically what one professional cynic believes happened that matters. And other rulings on moderately similar matters will be important.

And here's some context for the arbitrator (quoting from an article by George Nicolau)

Normally, off-duty conduct is the business of the employer only under certain limited circumstances-when it can be shown by credible evidence that the conduct directly injures the product or reputation of the business, where fellow workers reasonably refuse to work with the alleged miscreant, where the behavior renders the employee unable to perform his duties or appear at work, like being in jail, or where the conduct clearly breaches an employee's duty of loyalty to the employer."

(RNJ -- It's been reported that at least some of the Dodger players don't want him back. May matter. Damage to the business is harder to demonstrate. An arbitrator will not take their word on the matter)

All of this, sometimes referred to as the "vital nexus" requirement, recognizes that employers are not the guardians of the public weal or the ultimate censor of their employees' off-premises behavior,
nor are they society's chosen enforcers.

I honestly don't know how an arbitrator would rule here. Bauer's not going to jail. But that's not the issue. Lengthy suspensions have been upheld in cases where the player wasn't prosecuted. The judge's ruling that it was consensual will carry some wait. No idea if it'll carry the day.

(For the record, I am not defending Bauer here because I don’t know whether the woman gave consent — she claims she didn’t. However, I disagree with the notion that one cannot ever consent to having the crap beaten out of them.)

She cannot consent to being beaten while unconscious, regardless of what she gave consent to prior to losing consciousness. Like, legally, because no unconscious person can voice their consent, nor waive their consent, nor protect themselves, it's not even a gray area. You can't legally beat them.

She cannot consent to being beaten while unconscious, regardless of what she gave consent to prior to losing consciousness. Like, legally, because no unconscious person can voice their consent, nor waive their consent, nor protect themselves, it's not even a gray area. You can't legally beat them.

This is a key difference with the martial arts and football comparison, too. The officials there are present in part to stop contact when someone is unconscious, and it's not hard to imagine (given the McSorley situation cited earlier) to envision a participant who continues to assault an unconscious opponent facing charges.

I don't see how that fact alone doesn't damn Bauer. It'd be one thing if, during consensual rough sex, he knocked out his partner and immediately stopped and tried to get her help. But in this case, where he continued the act, I don't see how he can be defended.

i liked bauer before this.

I'm with STIGGLES. I'm a Cleveland fan, so it may have been some homerism, but I thought his antics were those of a weird iconoclast (with the exception of going after the young fan online, that was pretty rude).

This whole situation is terrible though. Even if it WAS consensual, it shows a disturbing proclivity for violence.

But in this case, where he continued the act, I don't see how he can be defended.

"Hold our beers," say resident BTF pondscum.