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Monday, November 29, 2021

Sources: Expanded playoffs, draft lottery proposals in CBA negotiations

Major League Baseball’s expanded playoff proposal, as part of a new collective bargaining agreement between owners and players, includes the ability for division winners to pick their wild-card opponent, according to sources familiar with the negotiations.

The format would call for 14 teams—seven from each league—to make the playoffs, four more than currently play in the postseason. The three division winners in each league would be joined by four wild-card teams to make up the playoff field. Here’s how it would work:

• The team with the best record in each league would get a bye into the best-of-five division series.

• The remaining two division winners would get to pick their wild-card opponent from the bottom three wild-card teams. The division winner with the second-best record would pick first, then the No. 3 seed in the league would pick its opponent from the final two wild-card teams. The wild-card team with the best record would play the wild-card team that wasn’t picked by a division winner.

• Once matchups are set, the higher-seeded teams would host all three games in a best-of-three wild-card round.

• Winners in the wild-card round would advance to the division series and the playoffs would continue as they have in the past.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 29, 2021 at 06:23 PM | 48 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: draft lottery, expanded playoffs, labor issues

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   1. friendofafriend Posted: November 29, 2021 at 07:12 PM (#6055227)
So I'm supposed to watch 162 games, but the only difference between the #2 and #7 finishers is home field in a best of 3? I think I wouldn't watch till the playoffs.
   2. McCoy Posted: November 29, 2021 at 07:34 PM (#6055230)
It's a little bit more than that and of course would make a race between the top teams, if they're close, very interesting unlike now where it largely doesn't matter
   3. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: November 29, 2021 at 07:39 PM (#6055233)
What the hell, let's just put every team in the playoffs. Intradivisional ladders, let's do this. Who the hell cares about the regular season, anyway?
   4. AndrewJ Posted: November 29, 2021 at 07:44 PM (#6055234)
So I'm supposed to watch 162 games, but the only difference between the #2 and #7 finishers is home field in a best of 3? I think I wouldn't watch till the playoffs.

If there's no longer a direct correlation between the regular season and the postseason, some fans might sensibly stop paying attention to either.
   5. BDC Posted: November 29, 2021 at 09:01 PM (#6055248)
I think I wouldn't watch till the playoffs

For me, the opposite. The regular season is my pastime. Tickets are cheap, gets me out of the house. Doesn't matter much who wins that night but it's entertaining.

The playoffs, though … they're already lasting four weeks, now it will be five, baffling format, too many teams to care about, any suspense diluted as there becomes more & more of it. I'll just follow football till they finally decide who's in the Series and watch some of that.
   6. John Northey Posted: November 29, 2021 at 10:10 PM (#6055265)
I see it as 2 seasons - regular is the tough one where your team needs depth and you get to have a daily battle to watch. The playoffs are silly fun which is the reward for having a good regular season. Having the best team in each league get a reward (3 days off to heal injuries, rest pitchers, get ready) is a good idea - in the olden days (before my time) those were the only teams in the playoffs. All other teams need to be handicapped in some way for the playoffs and this is a reasonable way to do that. Also rewards the division leaders and best wild card team so more incentive to be good.
   7. sunday silence (again) Posted: November 29, 2021 at 10:57 PM (#6055278)
r/nottheonion
   8. SoSH U at work Posted: November 29, 2021 at 11:01 PM (#6055279)
All other teams need to be handicapped in some way for the playoffs and this is a reasonable way to do that. Also rewards the division leaders and best wild card team so more incentive to be good.


How is it both a handicap and a reward for the other division winners?
   9. The Duke Posted: November 29, 2021 at 11:27 PM (#6055284)
It’s already too crowded on the playoffs. Money corrupts all
   10. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: November 29, 2021 at 11:58 PM (#6055287)
What the hell, let's just put every team in the playoffs.


Here's how it works:
Every team in each league plays in the post season. Every team in the league plays every other team in the league (no interleague games until the WS guys, this is the post season!). After each team has played 162 games in the playoffs, whoever has the best record advances to the World Series.
   11. Ron J Posted: November 30, 2021 at 06:21 AM (#6055295)
There has to some way to work a loser's bracket system into these extended playoffs. Extend them still further.
   12. Tony S Posted: November 30, 2021 at 08:28 AM (#6055298)
It was annoying enough when the NFL expanded its playoff to 14 teams.

So I guess, because the NFL did it, MLB just needs to follow suit. Why not -- aping the NFL has allowed baseball to reach record highs of popularity, year after year. Right?

Wake me up when September ends. And I might hit the snooze button anyway.
   13. Mr Dashwood Posted: November 30, 2021 at 09:03 AM (#6055299)
RTA, I'm rather more enamoured of the draft lottery proposal.
   14. Nasty Nate Posted: November 30, 2021 at 09:21 AM (#6055302)
This sucks. Hopefully it doesn't make its way through the negotiations.
   15. Stevey Posted: November 30, 2021 at 09:23 AM (#6055303)
because the NFL did it, MLB just needs to follow suit. Why not -- aping the NFL has allowed baseball to reach record highs of popularity, year after year. Right?



The causation (for both) is that more playoff games means more money for the owners, not that one was the causation for the other.



The union has been strongly against expanded playoffs, and no small part of the reason is that when the owners last said there will be "extra money", they didn't exactly mean that.
   16. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 30, 2021 at 09:30 AM (#6055305)
The causation (for both) is that more playoff games means more money for the owners, not that one was the causation for the other.

Yup. Big extra TV revenue, and the players don't get paid more.
   17. winnipegwhip Posted: November 30, 2021 at 09:37 AM (#6055307)
Lets do it like the FBS division in football. The BBWAA can rank the teams from 1-30....imagine "Tampa looked great and probably was a no 1 seed going into the American League playoffs but losing 3 of 4 in Baltimore on the weekend really hurts their chances....especially the quality wins the Astros had over Oakland earlier in the week."

Or we can let the Veteran's Committee decide since they don't have anything to do over the season.
   18. villageidiom Posted: November 30, 2021 at 09:38 AM (#6055308)
All of these are solutions in search of a problem. It is not a problem that the two runners-up to the wild card don't make the playoffs. It is not a problem that the home teams in the DS round don't have enough of a home field advantage. It is not a problem that division winners can't choose their opponent. It is not a problem that only 10 teams make the postseason tournament. It is not a problem that teams optimize current competitiveness vs. future competitiveness. It is not a problem that the worst teams get high draft picks.

Like, none of these are structural problems of MLB, nor are they significant problems from a fan perspective. The first four are facets of the "problem" that MLB wants to make more money. The latter three are facets of the "problem" that the MLBPA wants to make more money. So I guess it's a good sign from the perspective of harmony that the sides are negotiating in ways to grow the pile of money for both sides, rather than simply looking for ways to take more from the other.
   19. The Duke Posted: November 30, 2021 at 09:43 AM (#6055309)
Question on competitive balance tax. I thought the penalties quickly escalated from just cash to a combination of cash, loss of intl pool money and loss of draft picks.

But I read something that said it’s only cash plus you have your draft placement moved down 10 picks.

What is the multi - year penalty for being over ?
   20. Mr Dashwood Posted: November 30, 2021 at 09:53 AM (#6055312)
It is not a problem that teams optimize current competitiveness vs. future competitiveness.

I'm going to disagree with that one. It's the best argument for a promotion/relegation system, which on the whole I don't actually like.

Perhaps there should be some sort of financial penalty for being bad, like structuring revenue sharing so good teams get more and bad teams get less. It would counterbalance the 'luxury tax'.
   21. SandyRiver Posted: November 30, 2021 at 10:02 AM (#6055314)
Don't like the draft lottery idea, mainly because I'm a Celtics fan. Following their awful seasons they usually got hosed by that system, like 2nd worst record, pick 8th.
   22. DL from MN Posted: November 30, 2021 at 10:14 AM (#6055316)
It doesn't help that playoff baseball is less interesting to watch than regular season baseball. Longer commercial breaks, more time waiting between pitches, games that take forever, later start times, fewer innings from the starting pitchers and more emphasis on the bullpen, announcers who know and care less about the teams.
   23. DL from MN Posted: November 30, 2021 at 10:21 AM (#6055317)
If they want more playoffs they could add two games to the wild card round and the best of 5 round.
   24. villageidiom Posted: November 30, 2021 at 11:31 AM (#6055337)
Perhaps there should be some sort of financial penalty for being bad
First, there clearly already is a financial penalty for being bad. Second, there will always be bad teams regardless of what incentives you place around it. With a 162-game schedule the average number of wins will always be 81; it's not like incentivizing bad teams will increase that to 90.

Like, there are tons of incentives right now to compete, compared to 70 years ago. Divisions exist, and are kept small, minimizing the path to the playoffs for a competitive team. There are more ways to make the playoffs, and even without winning the division a playoff team has a reasonable chance to win the World Series. Revenues for competing teams are so much higher than for non-competing teams, and far beyond anything that could have been imagined in the pre-expansion days. And yet we still have teams doing poorly every year. That's because it's not about the incentives. It's about a zero-sum game, the limited impact of an individual player on team success; and slow turnover of rosters.

As I said before, the 2021 Orioles aren't the tanking problem; the 2021 Nationals are the tanking problem. And they didn't tank for the draft picks. They tanked to restock their farm quickly. With more playoff teams, more teams will be looking to acquire top talent in deadline deals, which in turn puts greater incentive for a team or two to do what the 2021 Nationals did. That aside, all we're doing is shifting where the bubble is. So maybe it's not the Nationals but the Rockies that sell off their entire roster. (Or maybe it's still the Nationals, as they were around 6th-8th in line for the wild card in early July. Increasing wild cards from 2 to 4 might not have changed their view.)

The 2021 Orioles' problem is that they don't just have to sign a couple of good players. They are five MVP-caliber player acquisitions away from finishing in 4th place in their division. And I'll tell you, if they can acquire 4 MVP-caliber players they might be able to convince the 5th to sign with them, but it's difficult for a team like Baltimore to get the first one to sign with them. The issue with the 2021 Orioles is there is no realistic viable path for them to compete in 2022, and possibly 2023, which means they should be making moves now that get them in better position to compete in 2024 and 2025. That's optimizing current vs. future. If we put more incentives on them to compete in 2022, then they still won't be competitive in 2022. They will bid up the free agent salaries ultimately paid by the Dodgers, but they're still not landing those players. But by removing the draft benefit we're taking away a bit of their ability to compete in the future.

If more players were available by free agency, then they'd have a shot at turning over quickly. But they're not. Not that I'd advocate such a system but if player contracts were a maximum length of 3 years the Orioles could restock their roster quickly. It would suck for the players - the increased supply of talent would more than offset the increased demand of teams looking to compete, and salaries would be lower than otherwise - but it would allow the Orioles to get back to competing without having to rely on the draft and a long-term view as a key component of that.
   25. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 30, 2021 at 11:57 AM (#6055339)
First, there clearly already is a financial penalty for being bad.

Very little. The teams get ~$250M in shared revenue no matter what. Local TV contracts are generally locked in for long terms. All teams stand to lose is the 52% of the gate and concessions that is not shared.

If you cut payroll from $100M to $50M, that savings will more than offset any decline in gate. The loss of 1 million in attendance would old cost the team about $13M in ticket revenue (assuming a $25 avg. ticket).
   26. Stevey Posted: November 30, 2021 at 02:15 PM (#6055371)
The 2021 Orioles' problem is that they don't just have to sign a couple of good players. They are five MVP-caliber player acquisitions away from finishing in 4th place in their division. And I'll tell you, if they can acquire 4 MVP-caliber players they might be able to convince the 5th to sign with them, but it's difficult for a team like Baltimore to get the first one to sign with them.


It's not like the Orioles have suddenly, out of nowhere, found themselves in a position where they could really use an influx of talent. They should have realized a few years ago, which is a long time in this environment, that they needed to start adding talent to be competitive in 2022.


and this:

Revenues for competing teams are so much higher than for non-competing teams


seems to miss out on how much the landscape of baseball revenue has changed. The Angels get $150M per year in just local tv money regardless of the quality of their roster.
   27. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 30, 2021 at 02:29 PM (#6055377)
seems to miss out on how much the landscape of baseball revenue has changed. The Angels get $150M per year in just local tv money regardless of the quality of their roster.

And $250M in shared revenue.
   28. Mr Dashwood Posted: November 30, 2021 at 02:43 PM (#6055381)
VI,
I'm not really thinking about the 2021 Orioles being a bad team, but about the 2017 Tigers (and thus possibly the 2021 Nationals). On 18 July they were 6 games under .500, which actually represented a recovery as the team was 10 games under .500 after dropping the first game after the All-Star Break. That day the fire sales began with the trade of J D Martinez, who was heading into free agency for 2018. The Tigers went 21-49 (a .300 winning percentage, almost as bad as 2019) the rest of the way.

The problem was, however, the Tigers were over the Luxury Tax threshold and that meant that not only were they uncompetitive, but that MLB was charging them for being like that with high salaries.

However, you've got some good players there, still. Cabrera was breaking down in his mid 30s, and the V-Mart contract was never going to be justified by production. Verlander was still pretty good. JD Martinez was still a contributor and might have re-signed. Upton was only 29 (wow, what happened to him?). McCann was still a contributor (except he then had a terrible 2018). Jordan Zimmermann was just having an off year (or so we thought). Fulmer was promising and Boyd and Norris might make good 4th/5th startwers. With a bit of luck and some judicious acquisitions, one might see them fluke into a Wild Card spot in 2018.

Instead the Tigers followed the Tanking Playbook and unloaded anyone expensive other teams saw any value in. The net positive they've got to show for the trades is Jeimer Candelario, who was a bit above average with the bat among qualifiers in 2021. The negatives are two 98-loss seasons and an historically bad 2019 one.

And following a bad team can be fun, unless it's a really bad team that gets its head beaten in a lot. How bad was that 2019 team? Look at their record in blowouts. I've listed the 2003 and 2018 Tigers and the 100-loss Astros (the classic tank-to-World-Series model of recent years), as well as two losing teams I followed that didn't drive me to despair in the same way, the 2004 Expos and the 2009 Nationals, for comparison:

2003  7-40
2004 17
-31 (NL)
2009 14-29 (NL)
2011 15-28 (NL)
2012 13-32 (NL)
2013 13-34
2018 13
-30
2019  6
-40 


To my mind, the whole system forced the Tigers to be more bad, more anonymous than was really necessary, simply because it didn't allow them to pay players a lot of money. The ostensible purpose of this system is to make seasons more competitive, by charging rich teams which are able to pay stars more. In practical terms it suppresses the wages bad teams. In combination with the player draft it also increases the value of losses, which is in direct opposition to the actual core philosophy of sports.

Thus, a system that tied revenue sharing to on-field success a little bit, and softened the luxury tax thresholds for losing teams, would mean that the bad teams would see some value in some wins. It would let a little air out of the tanking balloon. It would also benefit the players in the sense that salaries might go up a little.

The losers would be cheapskate owners, people we don't really want in the sport in any case.
   29. Mr Dashwood Posted: November 30, 2021 at 02:47 PM (#6055383)
Those 2021 Orioles were 13-44 in blowouts, which is better than the 2019 Tigers.
   30. DL from MN Posted: November 30, 2021 at 02:56 PM (#6055387)
The players would benefit from increasing the minimum salary (the floor) and the luxury tax threshold (the ceiling) by 30%. Wages are being suppressed at the bottom and top of the scale.
   31. Hombre Brotani Posted: November 30, 2021 at 03:06 PM (#6055389)
Revenues for competing teams are so much higher than for non-competing teams
I think people underestimate the power of cost certainty. Yeah, revenues for competing teams are much higher, but so are the costs and headaches, and risk. Modern ownership groups are built on debt, so cost certainly becomes incredibly attractive, even moreso than before. It takes less effort and is more cost-effective to just try drafting well, and hope that you can eventually gather up enough good prospects maturing in the same timeframe. Sure, that may take a decade or two, but that's better than overcommitting to large contracts that might not pan out (Hello, Angels!). If they just sit tight and keep costs down, they can pay their debts and run their major league money-printing machine forever. Just my W.A.G.
   32. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: November 30, 2021 at 03:13 PM (#6055396)
I think people underestimate the power of cost certainty. Yeah, revenues for competing teams are much higher, but so are the costs and headaches, and risk. Modern ownership groups are built on debt, so cost certainly becomes incredibly attractive, even moreso than before. It takes less effort and is more cost-effective to just try drafting well, and hope that you can eventually gather up enough good prospects maturing in the same timeframe. Sure, that may take a decade or two, but that's better than overcommitting to large contracts that might not pan out (Hello, Angels!). If they just sit tight and keep costs down, they can pay their debts and run their major league money-printing machine forever. Just my W.A.G.


This is exactly what it is for the handful of teams that show no interest in competing. If they happen to be good by accident, fine, but ownership doesn't care.
   33. Karl from NY Posted: November 30, 2021 at 03:38 PM (#6055401)
The causation (for both) is that more playoff games means more money for the owners


With the clarification that this really means more *easily quantifiable* money. They can't measure the losses from people who simply stop caring about the regular season, which now includes me for basically every sport. Except maybe college football for the moment, though they're about to do the same thing too.
   34. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: November 30, 2021 at 03:54 PM (#6055404)
Letting even more teams into the post season risks devaluing it. You try to squeeze enough golden eggs out of that goose, eventually it dies.

Maybe the thing to do is just to accept that there will be some teams that will be almost perpetual doormats. Just give up on fanbases in, e.g., Baltimore, and pay the Orioles (via revenue sharing) to let the Yankees and their ilk beat up on them. Kinda like how college football works. Wins are worth more for the Yankees than they are for the Orioles anyway. As long as MLB has an anti-trust exemption, they might as well make use of it, and direct the wins to the teams that produce the most marginal revenue from them. If you do this, you don't need to dilute the playoffs any more than they currently are - so you keep post-season excitement. And you usually get the big market teams in the post-season, exactly like your advertisers want.

It would mean that fans in Baltimore lose. But something has got to give. As a number people have argued in this thread, there are real dangers to making the playoffs even bigger and even more inclusive. But if revenue from the post season has to increase, what you can do is make sure that it's the top revenue-generating teams that are in the post-season.
   35. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: November 30, 2021 at 04:37 PM (#6055410)
Maybe the thing to do is just to accept that there will be some teams that will be almost perpetual doormats. Just give up on fanbases in, e.g., Baltimore, and pay the Orioles (via revenue sharing) to let the Yankees and their ilk beat up on them. Kinda like how college football works.


Or, you know, kinda like how MLB works.

To the big club owners, small-time owners having no interest in trying to win is a feature, not a bug. They exist, and are paid by the big clubs, to pad out their schedules, nothing more. It's better for the Dodgers if the Pirates' owners take their money, pocket it, and consistently field terrible, hopeless teams than if the Pirates' owners take their money and use it to try to win and compete with the Dodgers.
   36. Tony S Posted: November 30, 2021 at 05:05 PM (#6055417)
Letting even more teams into the post season risks devaluing it.


But the White Sox-Mariners battle royale for that all-important fifth seed will surely enhance Labor Day weekend!
   37. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: November 30, 2021 at 09:13 PM (#6055470)
Or, you know, kinda like how MLB works.


Right, and maybe it's not a problem. In fact, maybe the optimal outcome for MLB is less parity, not more.
   38. John DiFool2 Posted: November 30, 2021 at 11:41 PM (#6055488)
I wonder who will be the last fan who remembers following a good old fashioned pennant race. [Even if it was a division race]

I wonder who will be the last fan to give a toot.
   39. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: December 01, 2021 at 12:13 AM (#6055492)
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32758345/major-league-baseball-players-union-no-closer-deal-collective-bargaining-agreement-set-expire-sources-say

On Tuesday, players added potential revenue-generating ideas, such as allowing advertising patches on jerseys and a 12-team postseason, to their offer. But they also asked for the luxury-tax threshold to be raised to $240 million. It was $210 million last season.

To accommodate the playoff grid in a 12-team postseason, the union offered up each league realigning to two divisions, one with eight teams and one with seven.


How does that accommodate the "playoff grid"?
   40. villageidiom Posted: December 01, 2021 at 01:03 AM (#6055496)
The simple answer I have to most of the responses to my post is this: If it's as profitable to lose as people are suggesting, then every team would try to do it every year. This has never been the case. Just taking the AL for the moment, except for the Mariners EVERY team has won their division in the last decade alone. And I don't think anyone can argue the Mariners have not been trying to win in that time.

To Mr Dashwood: The Tigers were pretty competitive in an 11-year span, then blew it up when they were 3.5 games out of last place for the wild card, then sucked for 4 years, and finally in 2021 they improved to mediocre and have the foundation for a multi-year competitive run in place. That they gave up earlier than their fans gave up in 2017 does not mean they were wrong to do so. In fact, going hand-in-hand with greater parity is the notion that every team should have a few years where they will not really be competing. What the Tigers went through is what every team should go through, at varying definitions of "not competing" and "a few years".
   41. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: December 01, 2021 at 01:26 PM (#6055582)
at varying definitions of "not competing" and "a few years"


As a Tigers fan, I can confirm these phrases are defined as "sucking like Monica" and "pretty much forever".
   42. Mr Dashwood Posted: December 01, 2021 at 01:36 PM (#6055588)
varying definitions of "not competing" and "a few years"

Yes, well, I'm saying that the varying definitions are more than just a minor detail. I'm saying that the Luxury Tax system, designed to hobble big-market teams, in this specific case hobbled a middle-market one, potentially making it worse than it needed to be and extending the 'few years'.

What I think we've learned over the years is that big-market teams tend not to fall so hard and to bounce back to competitiveness faster. Since they are mostly revenue-sharing losers, and luxury-tax payers, it seems particularly egregious when the luxury tax and revenue sharing system hurts a competitive small or mid-market team.

So if the goal of these CBA proposals is to increase 'hope and faith' -- the same goals as revenue sharing and luxury tax were supposed to address twenty-five years ago -- then I think it might be worthwhile first to examine the existing system to see if a few reforms at the margins can fix it before embarking on these more drastic measures which ostensibly core fans like us (although I have lost a lot of interest during the past four years) seem to find objectionable.
   43. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 01, 2021 at 01:39 PM (#6055589)
I suspect MLB is counting on fans being so relieved at avoiding a work stoppage, or more likely ending one before the regular season is significantly impacted, that they’ll accept whatever playoff format is agreed to. Maybe, but reducing interest in the regular season may eventually reduce interest in MLB in general.
   44. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: December 01, 2021 at 01:46 PM (#6055592)
to increase 'hope and faith' -- the same goals as revenue sharing and luxury tax were supposed to address twenty-five years ago


That's not what they're for. Their purpose is to hold down salaries. "Competitive balance" was a nice way to sell it to fans, but the real motive is to keep costs down. There's a reason that the players want the luxury tax raised, and it's not because they hate competitive balance.
   45. Mr Dashwood Posted: December 01, 2021 at 02:11 PM (#6055597)
"Competitive balance" was a nice way to sell it to fans, but the real motive is to keep costs down.

Yes, but one has to start from the presented rationale if one wants to show it doesn't actually work to achieve its stated goal.

Also, if you haven't already, have a quick scan of the link in [28] which gives the game away.
   46. Stevey Posted: December 01, 2021 at 02:43 PM (#6055609)
How does that accommodate the "playoff grid"?


In a 12-team postseason, two teams in each league get a bye. It's obviously not impossible to do that with more than two divisions, but it makes more sense with just two divisions.
   47. Stevey Posted: December 01, 2021 at 02:50 PM (#6055614)
If it's as profitable to lose as people are suggesting, then every team would try to do it every year.


The logic doesn't really flow on this one, because it also is extremely profitable to be good. What people are telling you is that
First, there clearly already is a financial penalty for being bad.
is incorrect in that there really isn't much of a financial penalty - its financially great to own a baseball team, period, doesn't matter if they are good or bad.

Sure, every team wants to win instead of lose. The players and the leaders in the front office are all professionals who didn't get to the tops of their fields by being anything other than intensely dedicated to being the best. They aren't trying to win to make the guy in the owner's box richer.
   48. It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out Posted: December 01, 2021 at 06:46 PM (#6055681)
I wonder who will be the last fan who remembers following a good old fashioned pennant race. [Even if it was a division race]

I wonder who will be the last fan to give a toot.


It was in 1993, the Giants and the Braves. The 1993 Giants, with first-year manager Dusty Baker, will forever be the last team to win 100 games and not play in the postseason. So I suppose it will be some Giants or Braves fan born in the mid-1980s.

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