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Saturday, August 28, 2021

Sources: Houston Astros, Washington Nationals first MLB teams to mandate vaccine for nonplaying employees

The Houston Astros and Washington Nationals have mandated that all nonplaying full-time employees receive the COVID-19 vaccine, the first two teams in Major League Baseball to make vaccination a condition of employment, sources told ESPN.

The Astros were the first team to require compulsory vaccination and did so with their major league team as well as the three minor league teams they own, according to a source familiar with their policy.

Earlier this month, the Nationals told employees they would need to show proof of vaccination or offer a medical or religious exemption from receiving the vaccine. The deadline to provide proof was Thursday.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 28, 2021 at 07:15 AM | 60 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: coronavirus, vaccines

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   1. JRVJ Posted: August 28, 2021 at 11:36 AM (#6036863)
Good.
   2. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 28, 2021 at 12:42 PM (#6036867)
Good, but #### the players' union for blocking a mandate for its members.
   3. JRVJ Posted: August 28, 2021 at 01:30 PM (#6036870)
2, agreed.

   4. Ron J Posted: August 28, 2021 at 02:02 PM (#6036873)
#2 You know this, but ... A union represents the will of its membership. If the members don't want this (and they don't), then whether or not the officers agree they'll oppose it.
   5. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 28, 2021 at 02:08 PM (#6036874)
A good friend of mine just got elevated to Union president and he has to deal with union members not wanting to get vaccinated much recently. He has an obligation to do his best but is not sad most of his cases have been slam dunks against his members on that issue.
   6. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 28, 2021 at 02:53 PM (#6036879)
#2 You know this, but ... A union represents the will of its membership. If the members don't want this (and they don't), then whether or not the officers agree they'll oppose it.

Right, by "the players' union" I was referring to the fact that players have blocked the union's acceptance of a mandate that would apply to them. It makes you wonder what sources of information some of these players are relying on, and I'm only hoping that it doesn't result in key players being quarantined for the postseason. AFAIC any unvaccinated players who miss games because of COVID might as well be deliberately throwing games, even if the reason is willful ignorance rather than a payoff from gamblers.
   7. catseyepub Posted: August 29, 2021 at 09:09 AM (#6036942)
LOL... sheep rush in for an experimental vacccine

One mouse walks into a bar and says to the other "Are you getting the vaccine? The other mouse says"Not yet, let's see how the humans turn out"
   8. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 29, 2021 at 10:39 AM (#6036948)
LOL... sheep rush in for an experimental vacccine


Rush? Experimental? Millions of people monitored for side effects over many months (some for well over a year). Dozens of health agencies across the world having inspected, validated, and approved it?

These are some of the most used and studied vaccines ever. If you are not sure about these vaccines, then you should never use any medication ever.
   9. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 29, 2021 at 10:54 AM (#6036950)
If it's good enough for Medina Spirit, it's good enough for catseyepub!
   10. catseyepub Posted: August 29, 2021 at 10:58 AM (#6036951)
"Rush? Experimental? Millions of people monitored for side effects over many months (some for well over a year). Dozens of health agencies across the world having inspected, validated, and approved it?

These are some of the most used and studied vaccines ever. If you are not sure about these vaccines, then you should never use any medication ever."

That quote above will not likely age well. In fact it's already full of mistruths by puh....lenty!
   11. PeteF3 Posted: August 29, 2021 at 11:07 AM (#6036952)
That quote above will not likely age well. In fact it's already full of mistruths by puh....lenty!


Would you mind citing examples of past vaccines in which side effects manifested after a year or more? Because as best I can tell the quote already has "aged well."
   12. catseyepub Posted: August 29, 2021 at 11:27 AM (#6036955)
V a e r s... you can look it up
   13. PeteF3 Posted: August 29, 2021 at 11:28 AM (#6036956)
V a e r s... you can look it up


Yes, and from looking it up I've long known that any rando can report anything to VAERS. It's nothing remotely resembling any kind of a controlled study.

Edit: I also quite reasonably asked for past vaccines, not the current ones. To my knowledge, if a vaccine has side effects they manifest themselves quickly, as in inside of a month.
   14. The Duke Posted: August 29, 2021 at 11:31 AM (#6036957)
The vaccine isn’t exactly what was advertised but it does keep you from dying (for the most part). Newest studies say the effects may wear off as soon as 4-6 months. Actually getting the virus is apparently way better for immunity. When I get a vaccine the assumption is I am protected from getting sick - that isn’t happening here.

So, it’s prevented a lot of deaths but frankly if the american people have to get a booster every 4-6 months I can’t imagine there are many people who will stand for that.

I’m hoping they can make the vaccine better. At least get it to the point where a booster is only a once a year thing.

Still, if you can get vaccine and then you get sick and get real antibodies that’s a good answer too. That’s why the mask thing is counterproductive - getting sick is likely the best way to prevent dying from virus. It’s also the best way to die from the virus, so there’s that.
   15. simon bedford Posted: August 29, 2021 at 11:35 AM (#6036958)
V.a.e.r.s. is a reporting system wherein any person can report anything they like , the CDC and other organizations then investigate these claims and determine which ones are legitimate. So not sure what you expect people to look up? the unscientific and unverified claims that the V.a.e.r.s. system records that are then debunked by the health experts?
Submitting a report to V.a.e.r.s is something anyone can do, it is not proof at all that a vaccine caused the problem , nor is it proof that there was a verified problem in the first place. A warning that the information collected by V.a.e.r.s is not verified and can be misleading and incomplete is right there on their website itself.
   16. catseyepub Posted: August 29, 2021 at 11:39 AM (#6036959)
Practically every other vaccine ever went through a period of 8 to 10 years of clinical trials this was rushed in less than one year think something can go wrong?
In addition other vaccines and other therapeutics over our lifetime have been pulled after they did countless amounts of damage this vaccine has done quadruple the amount of damage.
   17. catseyepub Posted: August 29, 2021 at 11:46 AM (#6036961)
Practically every other vaccine ever went through a period of 8 to 10 years of clinical trials this was rushed in less than one year think something can go wrong?
In addition other vaccines and other therapeutics over our lifetime have been pulled after they did countless amounts of damage this vaccine has done quadruple the amount of damage.
   18. PeteF3 Posted: August 29, 2021 at 11:48 AM (#6036963)
Practically every other vaccine ever went through a period of 8 to 10 years of clinical trials this was rushed in less than one year think something can go wrong?


The mRNA vaccines have been in trials in some form going back to the SARS outbreak in 2003. Also those 8-10 years of clinical trials are usually because the demand for such a vaccine isn't as high--every conceivable man-hour and dollar was pumped into these vaccines because it was imperative to get them out as quickly as possible.

In addition other vaccines and other therapeutics over our lifetime have been pulled after they did countless amounts of damage this vaccine has done quadruple the amount of damage.


Quadruple the amount of damage as compared to what? How are you measuring that?
   19. catseyepub Posted: August 29, 2021 at 11:55 AM (#6036964)
This rushed vaccine was created specifically for the novel coronavirus which is the alpha variant.
Additionally the vaccine that everybody had dragged in their bodies again was specifically for the alpha variant and not the Delta variant so what good is this really doing just harm. It's been widely reported that the Pfizer vaccine as of today has anywhere between a 23 and 40% efficacy rating. So again tell me how this is such a good thing.
   20. Brian C Posted: August 29, 2021 at 12:32 PM (#6036966)
That’s why the mask thing is counterproductive - getting sick is likely the best way to prevent dying from virus. It’s also the best way to die from the virus, so there’s that.

wut
Additionally the vaccine that everybody had dragged in their bodies again was specifically for the alpha variant and not the Delta variant so what good is this really doing just harm. It's been widely reported that the Pfizer vaccine as of today has anywhere between a 23 and 40% efficacy rating. So again tell me how this is such a good thing.

wut

Look, if you fools really want to be anti-mask/anti-vaccine, you have to at least write things that make basic logical sense on their face. You can't say "getting sick is likely the best way to prevent dying from the virus" when almost everyone dying from the virus is unvaccinated. And you can't say that the vaccine is "really doing just harm" and then in the same breath state that it's still providing for a 23-40% benefit.

Please try harder not to be so stupid.
   21. Greg Pope Posted: August 29, 2021 at 12:57 PM (#6036970)
frankly if the american people have to get a booster every 4-6 months I can’t imagine there are many people who will stand for that

I will gladly take a booster every 6th months to avoid getting COVID.
   22. Brian C Posted: August 29, 2021 at 01:16 PM (#6036972)
I will gladly take a booster every 6th months to avoid getting COVID.

For what it's worth, I think he's right that most people won't stand for it. It's not like uptake on flu shots is all that strong every year. And it's not like anyone wants the flu - the flu really sucks!

But ... will there be a real need for boosters every 4-6 months? So far the vaccine is holding up very strongly against severe disease, if not necessarily symptomatic illness. Most breakthrough cases are mild or altogether asymptomatic, relative to unvaccinated infections. If that continues to be the case, then it seems like the most likely outcome is that people will simply pop a few Tylenol COVIDs when they get sick and not worry so much about preventative boosters.

Of course, the vaccines' effectiveness against severe outcomes may wane over time - but it's not super likely. The severe outcomes of COVID seem mostly tied to its novelty - no one on the planet had immune systems that had dealt with this virus before; it was completely new, and adult immune systems are by and large not very efficient at fighting novel pathogens (kids' immune systems generally do better, which is why the severity in children has overall been much less).

Yet whether via vaccines or illness, it is increasingly not the case that this is a novel pathogen for people. As it reaches endemic status, severe outcomes will drop, as with other pandemics throughout history.
   23. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: August 29, 2021 at 02:59 PM (#6036978)
That’s why the mask thing is counterproductive - getting sick is likely the best way to prevent dying from virus. It’s also the best way to die from the virus, so there’s that.


It's the most effective way to generate antibodies for the virus; you just may not survive the experience. Getting the vaccine is the best way to generate antibodies for the virus while simultaneously avoiding dying, which, when you think about it, is kind of the point.

When it comes to masking, I doubt it's dramatically effective compared to social distancing or vaccines, it's just a relatively cost-free way of driving down R and, potentially, reducing the viral load of infections somewhat.

Additionally the vaccine that everybody had dragged in their bodies again was specifically for the alpha variant and not the Delta variant so what good is this really doing just harm


Everything you've posted so far has been nonsense at best, but we know from observing the real-world effects of the vaccine and the unvaccinated, that the above, specifically, is the opposite of the truth.
   24. catseyepub Posted: August 29, 2021 at 03:16 PM (#6036979)
Poor unknowing fool.. Must be glorious to live in a protective cocoon albeit without using critical thinking. How's your mask and your passport doing??
   25. catseyepub Posted: August 29, 2021 at 03:17 PM (#6036981)
Poor unknowing tool.. Must be glorious to live in a protective cocoon albeit without using critical thinking. How's your mask and your passport doing??
   26. catseyepub Posted: August 29, 2021 at 03:35 PM (#6036983)
How bout improving your immun system? Or is that just too much work and common sense for lazy Americans? 78% of covid hospitalizations are the overweight.
   27. catseyepub Posted: August 29, 2021 at 03:37 PM (#6036984)
Israel is 2 months ahead of us as far as being vaccinated .
Check out how they're faring.
Batter up
   28. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 29, 2021 at 03:39 PM (#6036985)
   29. catseyepub Posted: August 29, 2021 at 03:49 PM (#6036986)
Brian C
Talk about conflating different posts.
   30. The Duke Posted: August 29, 2021 at 03:50 PM (#6036987)
My point was get vaccinated - don’t wear masks, hope you get a mild breakthrough infection which should then give you much longer lasting antibody protection. Why people are still not getting vaccinated in the face of delta attacking much younger populations is beyond me.

One thing that should be a learning here is to work harder to get flu vaccines to as close to 100% as possible. I’ve noticed in my conversations that people who don’t get the flu vaccine also don’t get this vaccine. There’s a ton of reasons why but one of them is simply the feeling of getting old - it signifies you are getting older and people don’t like that
   31. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: August 29, 2021 at 03:53 PM (#6036988)
Poor unknowing tool.. Must be glorious to live in a protective cocoon albeit without using critical thinking. How's your mask and your passport doing??


I don't know specifically to whom you're referring, but on the assumption it's me: I'm doing very well, thank you. My mask is fine, and my proof of vaccination will kick in 6 days from now when my second shot goes into effect. Both myself and my wife have avoided getting Covid so far as we know. We're fortunate to live in a country that, despite making quite a few mis-steps in Covid management, has a well-developed healthcare system and took social distancing seriously until vaccines became available.

Luckily, I'm not possessed of the gullibility that would lead me to believe in a conspiracy theory involving literally tens of millions of medical professionals all over the world, while only some science-denying loons, radio hosts selling outrage, and cowards petrified of a needle have somehow stumbled upon horse dewormer as a magic cure.

Israel's rolling 7-day average deaths from Covid is 25. Florida's is over 200, and they have the higher percentage of unvaccinated people. And the vaccine is how you improve your immune system against a novel virus - that, or catching it, and hoping that you don't die. A lot of people in the southern states of the US right now are too intubated to be able to say how much they regret not getting vaccinated.

But I have to hand it to you. Most people as gullible as you are would already have given all their money away to Nigerian prince e-mail scams, so it's impressive that you can still get internet access.
   32. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: August 29, 2021 at 04:01 PM (#6036989)
One thing that should be a learning here is to work harder to get flu vaccines to as close to 100% as possible.


Yeah, this is a good point. Sadly flu vaccines have historically not been as effective as the mRNA efforts were against the primary Covid-19 infection, so people have tended to associate getting the flu shot with getting sick. Perhaps wrapping them up in a single regimen with a Covid booster if needed (not necessarily both at the same time, but part of an easy to manage schedule) will become a little more normal.

My last company before I left to freelance offered free flu shots, and I suspect this will become even more commonplace. People will hopefully get better about staying home when they're infectious in future, and many corporations will want to limit those occasions. Yet another reason why conspiracy theories are dumb: late-stage capitalism involves conspicuous consumption as a condition of economic health. Offering people a free vaccine that wasn't effective would be a very poor way to run an economy. Offering them a free vaccine that actually works, on the other hand, is presumably a precondition of unlocking a recovery in GDP and the tax base.
   33. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 29, 2021 at 04:15 PM (#6036991)
PPL TALKIN BOUT HOW DANGEROUS THIS
HURRICANE IS!!! THE COMMON FLU KILLS MORE
THAN THE HURRICANE, OPEN THE STATE UP
GOVERNOR I WILL GO OUTSIDE AND EXERCISE MY
FREEDOM IN THE 240MPH WINDS



BIDEN GOVERMENT FAKING THIS CHINESE
HURRICANE TO PUT WHITE PEOPLE IN FEMA CAMPS
AND TEACH THEM CRITICAL RACE THEORY
AND CLIMATE CHANGE (NOT REAL) STAY WOKE
   34. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: August 29, 2021 at 05:34 PM (#6036998)
How bout improving your immun system?


This was briefly discussed up thread, but I wanted to call this out. You know the best way to improve the immune system? Well, what vaccines do is train your immune system to recognize the virus and deal with it quickly. Taking vaccines does improve your immune system, that is the entire point of the exercise.

And the current vaccines are still working really well against the variants. They still are doing a great job of protecting against hospitalization and death. Because the vaccinated immune system is ready for the virus. It is not perfect protection, you can still get sick, but I am cool with that if I can avoid hospitalization and death.

And if I have to take a booster every once in a while, sure. Probably best to get everyone the first rounds before we start on the further rounds, but I have no problem getting a booster. I get the flu shot every year.
   35. catseyepub Posted: August 29, 2021 at 06:15 PM (#6037005)
So taking that vaccines improves a great immune system... Wow just wow
   36. catseyepub Posted: August 29, 2021 at 06:17 PM (#6037006)
Well since I have a great immune system I'm going to keep taking multiple boosters multiple vaccine shots I'll never get sick ever I am infallible I am a Superman
   37. Astroenteritis Posted: August 29, 2021 at 06:38 PM (#6037007)
Glad the teams are doing this. I've had three doses of the vaccine, and I'll be happy to get one every 4-5 months, if necessary, because science.

Now, these Bill Gates nanobots they put in there are fully activated, and I have developed a real taste for human babies, preferably served with pizza.
   38. BDC Posted: August 29, 2021 at 06:57 PM (#6037010)
Well since I have a great immune system I'm going to keep taking multiple boosters multiple vaccine shots I'll never get sick ever I am infallible I am a Superman

Oddly enough this is not a bad description of late-20th/early-21st century people in the developed world, compared to every other time & place in human history ...
   39. Adam Starblind Posted: August 29, 2021 at 09:47 PM (#6037031)
Why is anyone responding to this imbecile?
   40. RJ in TO Posted: August 29, 2021 at 10:17 PM (#6037039)
Because people here have a long established track record of being incapable of not responding to trolls and idiots.
   41. Brian C Posted: August 29, 2021 at 10:21 PM (#6037043)
But a meta-conversation about the trolls and idiots, that is super high-minded and noble.
   42. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 29, 2021 at 10:53 PM (#6037051)
Why is anyone responding to this imbecile?

It's the catchy name. Brings me back.....

I'm like a one-eyed cat, peeping in a seafood store.

I'm like a one-eyed cat peepin' in a sea food store
I'm like a one-eyed cat peepin' in a sea food store
I can look at you 'til you don't love me no more

I believe you're doin' me wrong and now I know
I believe you're doin' me wrong and now I know
The more I work the faster my money goes

I said shake rattle and roll
I said shake rattle and roll
I said shake rattle and roll
I said shake rattle and roll
Well you'll never do nothin' to save your doggone soul
   43. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: August 30, 2021 at 03:14 AM (#6037067)
Well since I have a great immune system I'm going to keep taking multiple boosters multiple vaccine shots I'll never get sick ever I am infallible I am a Superman


I mean, as dumb as this is, it's actually the least dumb thing you've said on this thread, so . . . congrats? You don't know how the human body works or are under the impression that your immune system is a monolithic block of 'healthy' or 'sick' - which is laughably naive - but hey. Keep spouting nonsense but actually go and get vaccinated is a step up from the rock bottom you were previously inhabiting.

Why is anyone responding to this imbecile?


Because, as much as no-one is ever going to teach catseyepub to think rationally or evaluate evidence with any kind of objectivity, it's about the lurkers. Amazing to say, there will be people who read threads like this and, if nonsense is not pointed out for what it is, walk away thinking 'I never saw a counter-argument for that nonsense, and I really want to believe that nonsense. So now I can justifiably do so.' (Admittedly, this is not exactly the kind of thread that gets huge circulation.)

A risible number of people have ever changed each other's minds by arguing directly on the internet about things that matter. The people who consume those disagreements - the lurkers - can give themselves permissions to believe gobshites if they don't see those gobshites pointed out for what they are. Grifters sell people things they want to believe, after all.
   44. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 30, 2021 at 06:16 AM (#6037068)
Why is anyone responding to this imbecile?
Nobody could be that stupid. Combined with the misspellings, poor punctuation and grammar, and talking points about "rushed" and "experimental," it's not an imbecile; it's got to be a troll. And a worse one than FLTB.


EDIT: But what BBR said: responding to trolls is never about convincing trolls; it's about convincing other people who see what trolls have written and might think that those claims aren't rebutted.
   45. Brian C Posted: August 30, 2021 at 08:49 AM (#6037076)
Nobody could be that stupid.

Admirably generous outlook of your fellow humans. But if the pandemic has made one thing abundantly, tragically clear - it's that a truly extraordinary number of people really are that stupid.
   46. . Posted: August 30, 2021 at 09:23 AM (#6037081)
I got vaccinated at my first opportunity and have no issue with vaccine mandates as they're currently constituted. If that then becomes another shot every six months for an indefinite and unspecified future, I'm not entirely sure I would then support it.(*) One back-of-the-envelope personal factor would be if the booster is something other than Moderna, my original vaccine. I'd have qualms about plastering a Pfizer on top of a Moderna, e.g.

(*) And there's no way society at large is going to support it. Hopefully that is abundantly clear, although one naturally doubts that it is, given the continually changing goalposts and unscientifically unrealistic goals and objectives in this entire thing. If people are still being forced to both show and update their papers every six months in, say, 2025, there will be a revolt. If not in the US, than in Europe.
   47. . Posted: August 30, 2021 at 09:52 AM (#6037086)
But a meta-conversation about the trolls and idiots, that is super high-minded and noble.


My contribution to the meta-conversation is that there are a lot of trolls and idiots out there, but things like Alex Berenson's weekend suspension from Twitter empowers them and naturally engages their suspicions. (*) Berenson essentially said that the vaccines don't really stop infection or spread and are essentially a pre-emptive therapeutic, and from there added a question about whether that warranted a mandate. While it's fair to argue about where his premise takes you, his premise is entirely accurate. His suspension from Twitter was illiberal and tyrannical, particularly when we realize that Twitter/Facebook are working directly with government.(**) People naturally resist being forced to do something by entities that see the need to suppress truthful statements and open discussion from the public that they're then forcing to do that thing. The presence of trolls and idiots doesn't negate that observation in the least.

(*) Which they then take way too far.

(**) In the same way, that extremely unholy alliance ruled discussion of whether the thing leaked from the Wuhan lab out of bounds mere weeks into the pandemic. That was a preposterous state of affairs. It pretty clearly leaked from the lab, so they idea that they're somehow blocking "misinformation" or things that have been "debunked" doesn't pass the laugh test.
   48. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: August 30, 2021 at 10:13 AM (#6037087)
"Vaccines don't stop infection or spread". True, but only in the very limited sense that they are not 100% effective, but let's not forget they were never supposed to be. Originally we were hoping they might be 75-80% effective in stopping infection and spread. Initially they turned out to be much better than that (90-95% effective), but their effectiveness seems to be fading. As such, this statement by Berenson is highly misleading, in that the vaccines do, in fact, stop a lot of the infection and a lot of the spread on a community-wide basis.

Berenson also got temporarily suspended earlier when he said that Pfizer's study "showed" that vaccines did nothing to prevent against death. (In fact, it showed no such thing, since it wasn't designed to answer this question, as he well knew). That statement was a flat out untruth, as well as being highly misleading in intent. As we are all well aware by now, the vaccines are quite effective at reducing the risk of death.

Another time he got temporarily suspended for effectively encouraging people to achieve immunity through getting infected rather than taking the vaccine, by implying that the risks to young people of the vaccine outweighed the risks to young people of the virus itself. Another highly misleading statement.

edit: the guy is a public health menace, and statistically speaking is probably responsible for a significant number of deaths that would have been avoided had people not been influenced by his anti-vax nonsense.
   49. Zonk demands an audit of your post Posted: August 30, 2021 at 10:25 AM (#6037092)
Tell Your Children: The Truth About Berenson, Mental Illness, and Violence.
   50. Greg Pope Posted: August 30, 2021 at 10:26 AM (#6037093)
Sadly flu vaccines have historically not been as effective as the mRNA efforts were against the primary Covid-19 infection, so people have tended to associate getting the flu shot with getting sick.

I think this is the thing. The flu shot is very effective against the strains it's designed for, but those strains are just a best guess as to which strains will be dominant. From what I understand, the strains are selected months in advance in order to get the manufacturing ramped up in time for flu season. With mRNA they can sequence a new vaccine within days. So it's possible that in the future Moderna and Pfizer can make vaccines that target the flu strains that are actually circulating each year.

So hopefully we can get the flu vaccine up to 90% effective.
   51. . Posted: August 30, 2021 at 11:12 AM (#6037102)
True, but only in the very limited sense that they are not 100% effective, but let's not forget they were never supposed to be.


True, exactly. Of course they were never supposed to be, so no one should be surprised that there's still spread even when a bunch of us have been vaccinated. Very poorly messaged, not engendering of the public trust in the least.

As such, this statement by Berenson is highly misleading, in that the vaccines do, in fact, stop a lot of the infection and a lot of the spread on a community-wide basis.


They don't stop infection and they don't stop spread. They reduce bad outcomes dramatically if you get it when you've been vaccinated. Nothing misleading about it in the least.

but their effectiveness seems to be fading.


Which puts us all in a very different position than we thought we'd be when we all started getting vaccinated. There was no rollout or even suggestion that that tranche of vaccinations would be the first in a required series of tranches stretching into the indefinite and perhaps permanent future. Nor was it really suggested or hinted that we'd be mandated masking up again within three months of vaccine. Again, very poorly messaged, goalpost shifting.(*)

the guy is a public health menace,


He's not a public health official. He's no more a "menace" than the people who deemed the lab leak theory "debunked" or the people who told the public not to wear masks for 4-6 crucial weeks in Feb and March 2020. I barely know the guy from Adam and don't follow anything on Twitter. Others obviously obsess about him. I have no interest in getting down in the weeds with the obsessed.

(*) In the middle of writing this, I did a meeting with two other very reasonable co-workers and we talked about the booster shot idea and the rest. We're all in the Northeast civilized demographic, all happily vaccinated the first time around. After the discussion, it became even clearer that there is going to be little to no public support for a mandated series of booster shots, even in and of themselves, much less as a condition of employment. That idea needs an immediate rethink and submission to the trash can.
   52. Esoteric Posted: August 30, 2021 at 12:10 PM (#6037124)
Wow what a dumb comment thread.

P.S. get vaxxed, don't be a suicidal bastard, ignore the obvious troll who is obvious. masks are functionally useless but if a store makes me wear one then whatever, i want to get my bag of cheetos so fine.
   53. . Posted: August 30, 2021 at 12:56 PM (#6037136)
Forbes, June 28, 2021:

Both the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines are likely to offer long-lasting protection against Covid-19, according to a study published on Monday, indicating that people who are already inoculated with either of the mRNA vaccines may not need a booster dose for years.


Within less than two months of that -- a blink of an eye -- both Biden and Fauci started talking booster shots, first at around 8 months and now Fauci is musing about 5. NY State Excelsior pass holders have noted, as have I, that there's now an "expiration date" of six months after the second dose, even if it's Moderna. My workplace is in volunteer phase work in the office, just put in a vaccine mandate. Me personally, no issue with it. But ... when you go into the company system to post your card and the dates of your shots, conspicuously and clearly non-accidentially, there are fields there for booster shots.

I get that there's a committed maximalist faction here and in the country at large, but there's just no way this kind of zig-zagging is going to generate any kind of public confidence -- and it doesn't.
   54. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 30, 2021 at 04:35 PM (#6037212)
Within less than two months of that -- a blink of an eye -- both Biden and Fauci started talking booster shots,
Yes, after Delta became the dominant strain.
   55. . Posted: August 30, 2021 at 04:46 PM (#6037217)
The Delta variant has barely budged the numbers, and had done so even less when the booster shot talk started. As of August 9 (*):

Pfizer efficacy at preventing disease, 92% ancestral/Alpha; 90% Beta/Delta/Gamma
Pfizer efficacy at preventing infection 86 to 78

Moderna efficacy at preventing disease, 94 to 93
Moderna efficacy at preventing infection, 89 to 80

Both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines have higher efficacy rates against Beta/Delta/Gamma than J&J had against ancestral/Alpha.

There's nothing there remotely justifying mandated booster shots for the Pfizer/Moderna. There will be no public support for it. The messaging and public education is horrifically bad.

(*) University of Washington website. There might be more recent numbers, but I'm not going to bother looking for them. The idea of every-five-month booster shots, mandated, into the indefinite future has no chance of being accepted and it would be idiotic to propose it. Educating the public about the potential sensibility of getting them is, of course, perfectly fine as long as the education is honest and unbiased and scientific.
   56. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: August 30, 2021 at 05:12 PM (#6037229)
Now, these Bill Gates nanobots they put in there are fully activated, and I have developed a real taste for human babies, preferably served with pizza.


Which vaccine did you get? Because I got Moderna and find that I need to put ketchup on the babies for them to be palatable. I know Chicagoans will be disgusted by that, but I'm sorry. Blame the vaccine!
   57. jingoist Posted: August 30, 2021 at 10:09 PM (#6037311)
#42
Big Joe Turner at his best, circa 1952 or 53.
Never argue with fools, it just brings you down to their level.
And this troll is spouting foolishness
   58. Greg Pope Posted: August 31, 2021 at 11:51 AM (#6037386)
masks are functionally useless but if a store makes me wear one then whatever, i want to get my bag of cheetos so fine.

I don't think masks are functionally useless. Has the medical opinion changed? I have only heard that they marginally protect the wearer from becoming infected, but that they are decent at keeping an infected person from infecting others.

Which is important if vaccinated people can become exposed, be asymptomatic, but still pass it on to others.
   59. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 31, 2021 at 02:15 PM (#6037435)
#42
Big Joe Turner at his best, circa 1952 or 53.


Hi-yo, Silver!

Never argue with fools, it just brings you down to their level.
And this troll is spouting foolishness


Eye-rolling and mocking isn't really arguing, but I appreciate the sentiment
   60. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 01, 2021 at 04:49 PM (#6037770)
@dougherty_jesse
Long-time front office member Bob Boone has told the Nationals he will resign instead of complying to their coronavirus vaccination mandate, according to multiple people with knowledge of the situation. Boone has been with the organization since 2005.

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