Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, November 18, 2020

Sources: New York Mets’ Robinson Cano banned for year due to PED

New York Mets second baseman Robinson Cano tested positive for a performance-enhancing drug and will be suspended for the entire 2021 season, sources told ESPN.

It is the second PED suspension for Cano, 38, who missed 80 games in 2018 after testing positive for a diuretic while with the Seattle Mariners.

A second positive results in an automatic 162-game suspension, according to the joint drug agreement between Major League Baseball and the MLB Players Association. Cano will forfeit his $24 million salary.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 18, 2020 at 03:42 PM | 55 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mets, peds, robinson cano

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. reech Posted: November 18, 2020 at 03:45 PM (#5989609)
Possibly not terrible news for the Mets. Although Cano had a decent year in '20, a 38 year old @$24 million off the books certainly will help "poor" Mr. Cohen's budget. And if they can void the contract completely all the better.

And, If this IS true- Cano can definitely wave bye bye to any HOF shot he had.

What a moron.
   2. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 18, 2020 at 03:49 PM (#5989610)
@jareddiamond
The drug Robinson Canó tested positive for was Stanozolol. His first suspension was for furosemide, a diuretic. He will be suspended for the entire 2021 season.


Isn't that the really old school steroid?
   3. Adam Starblind Posted: November 18, 2020 at 03:54 PM (#5989614)
Yes!!!!!! Bauer and Springer, baby!!!!
   4. RJ in TO Posted: November 18, 2020 at 03:56 PM (#5989615)
Isn't that the really old school steroid?
It's what Ben Johnson tested positive for in the 1988 Summer Olympics.

So, yes. Really, really old school.
   5. reech Posted: November 18, 2020 at 03:59 PM (#5989617)
McNeil over to 2nd base.
How about Arenado at 3rd?
   6. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: November 18, 2020 at 04:01 PM (#5989618)
The M’s are sending the Mets $3.75M this year as part of the Cano deal...I assume the Mets still get that even though they do not have to pay Cano?
   7. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 18, 2020 at 04:04 PM (#5989622)
It's what Ben Johnson tested positive for in the 1988 Summer Olympics.

So, yes. Really, really old school.
I guess it was inevitable that millennials would eventually embrace retro, artisanal steroids.
   8. RJ in TO Posted: November 18, 2020 at 04:13 PM (#5989626)
Really, any player who tests positive for Stanozolol deserves to be suspended for stupidity.
   9. Tin Angel Posted: November 18, 2020 at 04:22 PM (#5989631)
It's what Ben Johnson tested positive for in the 1988 Summer Olympics.


Anyone here watched the documentary on steroids called Bigger Stronger Faster? It talks about how steroid use started in the Olympics in the 50's for weightlifting (the Russians were doing it first but the US team found out about it and started using themselves) and how it's use slowly entered all other sports. Pretty interesting.
   10. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 18, 2020 at 04:29 PM (#5989633)
Speaking of PED documentaries, a recent one titled "Icarus" is WILD. A former cyclist tries to take PEDs to see how it affects his performance....and it takes a twist.
   11. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: November 18, 2020 at 04:32 PM (#5989636)
Speaking of PED documentaries, a recent one titled "Icarus" is WILD. A former cyclist tries to take PEDs to see how it affects his performance....and it takes a twist.

cyclists were WAY ahead of the curve using PEDs--they've used amphetamines since the 1930s
   12. The Duke Posted: November 18, 2020 at 04:36 PM (#5989637)
I’ll buy Wilpon’s team and get rid of the GM you don’t like and drive tv ratings through the roof but I need a little help with the payroll. Anything you can do there to help me out?
   13. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 18, 2020 at 04:39 PM (#5989640)
Cano was guaranteed $24M a year through his age-40 season. Improving his performance was unlikely to extend his career beyond that quite advanced-for-MLB age, and certainly wasn’t worth the risk of jeopardizing his guaranteed money. Does that make him a selfless team player or extremely foolish - maybe both?
   14. kcgard2 Posted: November 18, 2020 at 04:46 PM (#5989642)
Yep, my first thought was also that this puts a nail in his HOF chances
   15. Lars6788 Posted: November 18, 2020 at 04:51 PM (#5989643)
Part of his training routine - his guys probably didn’t think about him getting popped a second time.

I think I remember PED tabloid stuff about Cano 10 years ago that was shut down by everyone at the time.
   16. . Posted: November 18, 2020 at 05:01 PM (#5989645)
Dude's been roiding his whole career. Yanks took full advantage.
   17. asinwreck Posted: November 18, 2020 at 05:13 PM (#5989646)
LeMahieu already getting mentioned on Twitter as a replacement.
   18. The Duke Posted: November 18, 2020 at 05:13 PM (#5989647)
Let’s see a 60 game season in 2021, maybe 120 games in 2022, he should be eligble to play any time now.

And Hinch and Cora are back in the saddle already
   19. baerga1 Posted: November 18, 2020 at 05:52 PM (#5989664)
Knowing Steve Cohen, he probably deliberately spiked Cano's urine.
   20. Captain Supporter Posted: November 18, 2020 at 06:19 PM (#5989673)
I think I remember PED tabloid stuff about Cano 10 years ago that was shut down by everyone at the time.


I always thought he was roiding his whole career. He has been lucky to get away with it this long. But I am sure we will soon be informed by Cano's agent that Robinson was badly advised by his doctor and took the wrong OTC supplement and/or that the test must have been flawed.
   21. Howie Menckel Posted: November 18, 2020 at 06:24 PM (#5989675)
with 50 RBI in 2021, CANO would have passed (HOFers in CAPs):

SLAUGHTER, CLEMENTE, MOLITOR, STHOMPSON, Garvey, PWANER, LWALKER, Vernon, JETER, Rose, Nettles, Sierra, CONNOR, Oliver, FISK, SANTO, I-ROD, SNIDER, PIAZZA, MIZE, and lastly Gaetti.

and he's a second baseman!

he passed the legendary ECOLLINS in the final week of 2020 and also is ahead of DOERR, FRISCH, BIGGIO, RALOMAR, MORGAN etc
   22. depletion Posted: November 18, 2020 at 06:46 PM (#5989682)
MR. PRESIDENT
   23. Walt Davis Posted: November 18, 2020 at 07:00 PM (#5989685)
Does that make him a selfless team player or extremely foolish - maybe both?

This has been true of nearly all of the "big" names that have positives. ARod had nothing to gain financially from his late-career usage. Braun was already signed through age 36. Starling Marte may be the biggest name among pre-arb players. (I'd completely forgotten about that one ... and Dee Gordon ... and I didn't know Mejia had a permanent ban.)

It's unlikely to be sheer stupidity. It may be selfishness in chasing some milestone, I'd guess more likely an unwillingness to accept decline, it may be team-motivated. But it ain't money. Money is an obvious motivator until you get the big contract but with millions guaranteed regardless of performance, it's not after.

But I am sure we will soon be informed by Cano's agent that Robinson was badly advised by his doctor and took the wrong OTC supplement and/or that the test must have been flawed.

This happens an awful lot though -- supplements simply arent sufficiently regulated. And I'm more willing to believe it (or less willing to dis-believe it) when somebody gets busted for something as old school as Stanozolol -- coincidentally enough also what Palmeiro got busted for 15 years ago. Again, you'd have to be very foolish/ignorant to think you can get away with something that old school -- or MLB's testing is pretty rubbish if Cano has been successfully masking Stanozolol for 10+ years. I don't know about MLB, but the international tests are also getting very sensitive, detecting teeny amounts that can't possibly be effective and detecting metabolites from usage who knows how long ago (not years and years though to my knowledge). (Yes, obviously the teeny amount there today may be the residue from a rather large amount 4 weeks ago ... but if Cano has been taking rather large amounts of stanozolol every 4 weeks, he should have been caught long before now.)

Note: that wouldn't mean Cano wasn't responsible ... make sure you're taking a clean supplement, with his money send it off to get tested yourself. If I was a clean or cheating rich athlete, I'd be getting my urine tested on a regular basis. And of course -- accidental/incidental use of a banned diuretic is possible, accidental/incidental use of stanozolol is possible but both within the space of a few years is pretty unlikely and evidence of at least (self-)negligence.

I haven't been keeping records or anything but the impression I've gotten is that, over the last several years internationally, athletes are receiving at least reduced suspensions on appeal pretty regularly. An Aussie swimmer just had hers cut from 4 years to 2 (they are pretty harsh in swimming it seems)
   24. The Duke Posted: November 18, 2020 at 07:45 PM (#5989698)
Is it actually a 162 game suspension or is it one year? Seems like it is intended to be one full season. If we have two more 60 game seasons is the suspension really supposed to cover 2+ years

He still has two full years after 2021 on that contract. The Mets could really use a third positive test
   25. Howie Menckel Posted: November 18, 2020 at 08:47 PM (#5989736)
It's unlikely to be sheer stupidity. It may be selfishness in chasing some milestone, I'd guess more likely an unwillingness to accept decline, it may be team-motivated. But it ain't money.


it's uber-competitiveness.

for the most part, making it to the top of a pro sport is a winnowing process - and only the most "alpha" need apply.

I've spent years of my life around these guys, and that's their DNA - or what they turn themselves into, either one.

that's why a "normal" perspective can't understand why a guy who has made $50M already would rather leave his original or adopted city, uproot his entire family to a less-pleasant climate, in their minds - all for $12M a year instead of $10M.

but $12M is who they are - and it's better than $10M. some player they don't like makes $10M, and they'll be damned if the settle for what THAT guy got.

this is also why so many of these guys go bankrupt.

I have often heard fans say - "ok, I can see being young and stupid and blowing all $5M - but how do you blow $50M?"

but the prize isn't the money - it's the price tag that helps define them higher on the pecking order at the time they sign the deal.

Cano left NYC as a HOF-bound superstar for Seattle - and that amazing contract elevates him.

so does the $24M he was supposed to get in 2020. even when he doesn't cash the check, he's still "$24M in 2020" in status terms.

I know it seems hard to believe, but it's just how most pro athletes roll.

digest that, and a lot of "mysteries" all disappear.
   26. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: November 18, 2020 at 09:10 PM (#5989746)
If Howie is right, these guys sound like they are extremely unpleasant to be around.
   27. sunday silence (again) Posted: November 18, 2020 at 09:47 PM (#5989764)
I would certainly cosign to what Howie said, although I dont know any who played at the elite levels. It reminds of a huge argument we had on one of the horse racing sites (yes horseracing) a few years back. This duded was arguing that there was NO WAY Lance Armstong could possibly be using PEDs because he had survived cancer and would never jeopardize his body like that. Whatever. People on that site were weird anyhow.
   28. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 18, 2020 at 09:47 PM (#5989765)
If Howie is right, these guys sound like they are extremely unpleasant to be around.

Much like top I-bankers, and lawyers, and tech bros, and corporate execs, etc., etc., etc. People willing to do absolutely anything to be "the best" are likely to be highly unethical and not very nice people.
   29. Howie Menckel Posted: November 18, 2020 at 09:52 PM (#5989771)
in spite of that borderline pathology, plenty of pro athletes were and are pleasant to be around.

the salary stuff is sometimes well compartmentalized vs the rest of their persona.

my increasingly outdated pecking order, best to worst:
NHL
NBA
NFL
MLB

that was pretty much a consensus BITD.

MLB guys were most likely in postgame to fart, tell fart jokes, make sexist comments, and so forth.

and Armstrong is a very good example of the general point.

there was a SI survey maybe back in the 1970s/1980ss. it's been a while, but something like a question of Olympic athletes on the order of, "If you could make a deal that you would shave 10 years off your life to be guaranteed a gold medal, would you do it?"

I don't remember the exact stakes of the Faustian bargain. but I DO remember naive me's jaw dropping to the floor at the time.

then I learned.

(so I had a "Zapruder film-slowed" courtside moment in Jordan's "The Last Dance."

I could tell from Jordan's pre-documentary comments how good it would be.

he was, is, and always will be an #######.

but for whatever reason - arguably LeBron stealing the spotlight - Jordan let the world know what we saw.

I have a grudging respect for that.

wondering if similar Tiger Woods will ever do the same.)
   30. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 18, 2020 at 10:03 PM (#5989778)
there was a SI survey maybe back in the 1970s/1980ss. it's been a while, but something like a question of Olympic athletes on the order of, "If you could make a deal that you would shave 10 years off your life to be guaranteed a gold medal, would you do it?"

It was much worse that that. It was something like you win a gold medal, but die in 5-10 years. Most of them said they would sign up for that.
   31. flournoy Posted: November 18, 2020 at 10:10 PM (#5989787)
If you could make a deal that you would shave 10 years off your life to be guaranteed a gold medal, would you do it?


you win a gold medal, but die in 5-10 years.


The former makes sense as something the athletes would agree to, the latter is hard to understand. As to the former, to a 20-year-old in the Olympics, who cares whether you only live 60 more years instead of 70? Either way, that's a super long time, and you'll be really old by then anyway.
   32. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: November 18, 2020 at 10:14 PM (#5989790)
I think Howie is right. I suspect if you get the best of the best in any profession whether athletes or lawyers or doctors you will find a large portion are reall ########.
   33. Rally Posted: November 18, 2020 at 10:17 PM (#5989792)
At some point “die in 5-10 years” sounds like a much better deal than shorten your lifespan by 10, which might kill you instantly. Elite athletes in their prime shouldn’t be there, i get that.
   34. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 18, 2020 at 10:31 PM (#5989805)
I think Howie is right. I suspect if you get the best of the best in any profession whether athletes or lawyers or doctors you will find a large portion are reall ########.
The best proctologists, no doubt.
   35. Howie Menckel Posted: November 18, 2020 at 10:38 PM (#5989811)
I'm sure I undersold the premise; not sure if snapper nailed it or modestly overreached.

I wanted to err on the side of caution.
   36. vortex of dissipation Posted: November 18, 2020 at 10:56 PM (#5989820)
I'm sure I undersold the premise; not sure if snapper nailed it or modestly overreached.

I wanted to err on the side of caution.


It's known as Goldman's Dilemma.

In the 1970s, Gabe Mirkin reported that more than half of the top runners whom he polled, would accept the following proposal: "If I could give you a pill that would make you an Olympic champion and also kill you in a year, would you take it?".[4] This surprising result prompted Bob Goldman to ask world-class athletes in combat and power sports a similar question: "If I had a magic drug that was so fantastic that if you took it once you would win every competition you would enter from the Olympic Decathlon to the Mr Universe, for the next five years but it had one minor drawback, it would kill you five years after you took it, would you still take the drug?" He also found that more than half said they would take it.
   37. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: November 19, 2020 at 12:38 AM (#5989863)
snarky post retracted..
   38. Ron J Posted: November 19, 2020 at 07:11 AM (#5989872)
#36 We have some kind of confirmation of this from competitive cycling. One of the documented side effects of EPO use is that it not infrequently killed elite athletes in their prime.

To be clear it wasn't likely to kill any given cyclist who used it, but it did kill a fair number and cyclists continued to use it.
   39. Hank Gillette Posted: November 19, 2020 at 11:00 AM (#5989895)
I think Howie is right. I suspect if you get the best of the best in any profession whether athletes or lawyers or doctors you will find a large portion are reall ########.


In some professions, they don’t have to be the best. Or even very good.
   40. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: November 19, 2020 at 11:13 AM (#5989900)
In some professions, they don’t have to be the best. Or even very good.


Incompetence backed by arrogance is a particularly toxic mix. I worked for a couple of bosses like that.
   41. reech Posted: November 19, 2020 at 11:16 AM (#5989901)

Incompetence backed by arrogance is a particularly toxic mix.


Re: The current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20500
   42. Srul Itza Posted: November 19, 2020 at 12:36 PM (#5989933)
It was much worse that that. It was something like you win a gold medal, but die in 5-10 years. Most of them said they would sign up for that.



Does anyone else here see echoes of Achilles in the Iliad? Fame vs. long life is a very old trope.
   43. Howie Menckel Posted: November 19, 2020 at 01:27 PM (#5989951)
Newsday headline today reflecting the suspension and accompanying salary relief for the Mets:

BANNED-AID
   44. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: November 19, 2020 at 02:14 PM (#5989972)
Incompetence backed by arrogance is a particularly toxic mix. I worked for a couple of bosses like that.

You and everybody else.

Re: The current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20500

Also the next one, whomever it turns out to be.
   45. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: November 19, 2020 at 02:42 PM (#5989980)
The disappointing part of this is that Cano had a pretty good shot at 3000 hits. He is currently 376 shy of that total. While his decline meant it would probably take more than 2 seasons to get that, he was set up pretty well to make it in 3 years. It's still acheivable, but he has to age pretty well to make it now. 2020 getting shortened also hurt a lot.
   46. The Duke Posted: November 19, 2020 at 03:07 PM (#5989983)
Yet another good reason to vote for Omar Vizquel. He got his 2877 hits the old-fashioned way. Steroid-free

Most of the most recent ~3000 hit club from his era are tainted. His hit achievement is more impressive when you pull those guys out.
   47. Walt Davis Posted: November 19, 2020 at 04:04 PM (#5990001)
We of course don't know that Vizquel was steroid-free. And there's nothing impressive about Vizquel's hit total, there is something impressive about Vizquel's endurance. Nearly 3,000 games and over 12,000 PAs is impressive but <2900 hits in over 12,000 PA and 10,500 ABs is not.

Vizquel is impressive because he was an excellent defensive SS and lasted forever. That's the end of the list of impressive accomplishments on the baseball field. It's a good list, I'd give up 10 years of my life for it apparently, but it's not a very long list.

Steve Stone later said he knew he was ruining his arm but he wasn't gonna stop his magical CYA season.
   48. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: November 19, 2020 at 04:10 PM (#5990002)
We of course don't know that Vizquel was steroid-free. And there's nothing impressive about Vizquel's hit total, there is something impressive about Vizquel's endurance.


And of course one of the great benefits of steroids is flattening that aging curve and being competitive well past normal ages where players have declined so much they can no longer play in MLB.

Dude played into his early 40's, anyone who can say with a straight face that there is no possible way Vizquel didn't use is fooling themselves.
   49. Walt Davis Posted: November 19, 2020 at 07:14 PM (#5990049)
And of course one of the great benefits of steroids is flattening that aging curve

It's reasonable but not really any evidence for this and, as I've pointed out before, basic demographics suggest we should have seen that "generation" last a long time. And what Omar did isn't particularly different than what Concepcion, Ozzie, Aparicio (still above-average full-season at age 39 when he retired), Maranville (still full-time at 41) did. Good defensive SS can last a long time.
   50. baxter Posted: November 20, 2020 at 12:19 AM (#5990078)
Post War Luke Appling, excellent through age 42
   51. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: November 20, 2020 at 05:30 PM (#5990214)
Interestingly, only one other player (out of 22) has 12,000 PA and less than 3,000 hits...and he's having trouble making the HoF, too...
   52. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: November 22, 2020 at 07:24 PM (#5990736)
It's known as Goldman's Dilemma.
In the 1970s, Gabe Mirkin reported that more than half of the top runners whom he polled, would accept the following proposal: "If I could give you a pill that would make you an Olympic champion and also kill you in a year, would you take it?".[4] This surprising result prompted Bob Goldman to ask world-class athletes in combat and power sports a similar question: "If I had a magic drug that was so fantastic that if you took it once you would win every competition you would enter from the Olympic Decathlon to the Mr Universe, for the next five years but it had one minor drawback, it would kill you five years after you took it, would you still take the drug?" He also found that more than half said they would take it.
Let me be the devil's advocate, and point out what a completely meaningless question it is. It's purely hypothetical, so there's no actual cost to answering the question. It doesn't mean that people would actually accept that trade. (Many do show a willingness to use steroids, but that's more like the shave-time-off-the-end-of-your-life scenario than the kill-you-in-the-near-future one.)
   53. Ron J Posted: November 22, 2020 at 09:02 PM (#5990761)
#52 That's why cycling and EPO is so interesting. It was killing active competitors.

Now it's obviously not the same scenario as the proposal. It's more of will you accept a low odds chance of dropping dead tomorrow.
   54. Zach Posted: November 25, 2020 at 07:47 PM (#5991195)
Cycling's an unfair comparison, because the performance improvement is so large it was almost impossible to compete at the top level without it. So anybody who was a top cyclist in the Armstrong years had made some kind of accommodation.
   55. EddieA Posted: November 25, 2020 at 08:35 PM (#5991204)
#48
Omar Vizquel's physique seeing him up close at age 39 would be consistent with steroid use. He was very muscular - pretty ripped - for his body type. All you can say is there is more doubt that he was a steroid user during the steroid era than some other people. Can't make absolute claims in either direction. When you start really small, you're not necessarily generating home runs - does that mean the player gets a free pass?

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
greenback used to say live and let live
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogEmpty Stadium Sports Will Be Really Weird
(10690 - 7:33pm, Dec 02)
Last: Mayor Blomberg

NewsblogA push to recognize the statistics of Black players from baseball’s era of apartheid
(50 - 7:24pm, Dec 02)
Last: SoSH U at work

NewsblogIchiro to coach high school baseball team
(7 - 7:19pm, Dec 02)
Last: Ron J

NewsblogNBA Post-Bubble offseason thread
(1998 - 7:09pm, Dec 02)
Last: tshipman

NewsblogMLB non-tender deadline tracker: Yankees will keep Gary Sanchez; White Sox, Twins, Cubs make notable cuts
(1 - 6:40pm, Dec 02)
Last: RoyalsRetro (AG#1F)

NewsblogSources: Isiah Kiner-Falefa to replace mainstay Elvis Andrus as starting Rangers shortstop next season
(19 - 5:48pm, Dec 02)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogIs the Hall leaving out too many players?
(84 - 5:44pm, Dec 02)
Last: alilisd

NewsblogLet’s Fix MLB’s Salary Arbitration System: The Arbitrators
(17 - 5:41pm, Dec 02)
Last: Bhaakon

NewsblogTwins place Eddie Rosario on outright waivers
(9 - 5:34pm, Dec 02)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogOT - Soccer Thread - Winter Is Here
(226 - 5:00pm, Dec 02)
Last: AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 12-2-2020
(2 - 3:48pm, Dec 02)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogMets To Sign Trevor May
(1 - 1:45pm, Dec 02)
Last: JJ1986

NewsblogBill James: The Biggest Problem With WAR
(108 - 1:41pm, Dec 02)
Last: Rally

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 2020 Ballot
(6 - 1:31pm, Dec 02)
Last: Michael J. Binkley's anxiety closet

NewsblogSt. Paul Saints to become Twins' top minor-league team; Class AA in Wichita
(8 - 12:42pm, Dec 02)
Last: RoyalsRetro (AG#1F)

Page rendered in 0.5594 seconds
48 querie(s) executed