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Sunday, January 24, 2021

Sources: New York Yankees acquire pitcher Jameson Taillon from Pittsburgh Pirates for four prospects

The New York Yankees have added another bounce-back candidate to their starting rotation, acquiring Jameson Taillon from the Pittsburgh Pirates for four minor-league prospects, according to ESPN’s Jeff Passan and multiple reports.

Pittsburgh will receive pitchers Miguel Yajure and Roansy Contreras, infielder Maikol Escotto and outfielder Canaan Smith in the trade, sources tell Passan.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 24, 2021 at 01:10 PM | 32 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: jameson taillon, pirates, yankees

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   1. JRVJ Posted: January 24, 2021 at 01:39 PM (#6001462)
The Pirates are going to be epically bad in 2021 (and they were already the worst MLB team in 2020).
   2. sanny manguillen (was rennie's tenet) Posted: January 24, 2021 at 01:49 PM (#6001464)
Unlikely as it may seem, the Pirates still have their top two pitchers and five hitters from 2020, rated by bWAR. Taillon and Gerrit Cole are (or at least used to be) very close, so the Yankees may know exactly as much about Taillon's rehab as the Pirates know.

It seems like the Pirates are trying to be replacement level, get a second consecutive No. 1, along with the big bonus pools. They're making sure they don't stumble into 65 wins.
   3. asinwreck Posted: January 24, 2021 at 02:06 PM (#6001466)
The pitchers have the highest profiles of the minor leaguers going to the Pirates, but Smith has a non-zero chance to be a folk hero in Pittsburgh c. 2025. Will be interesting to see if Escotto does any better (or even the level) of Colin Moran, and if he sticks at second or third. Certainly the Pirates hope he can stay at second given they are counting on Hayes to be a fixture at third until they inevitably get rid of him in his late arbitration years.
   4. DFA Posted: January 24, 2021 at 02:08 PM (#6001467)
The prospects are not without intrigue, but it does seem strange to me that Taillon, injuries and all, doesn't warrant a prospect on the Yankees top 10 list? IDK. But given the thin packages received for Darvish and Clevinger, maybe I should not be surprised?
   5. The Duke Posted: January 24, 2021 at 02:23 PM (#6001469)
The orioles would be competing for the lowest ream salary if they weren’t still saddled with Chris Davis. I read an article on them yesterday that said everyone on the 26 man roster had a salary of less than $1 million except Cobb and Davis

Honestly, I don’t know why they don’t DFA him and send him to AAA and work non-stop on whatever ails him. He adds no value to the MLB team.
   6. DFA Posted: January 24, 2021 at 02:29 PM (#6001471)
I think the Orioles are waiting to see if the 2021 season gets shortened, which would would cost the players on the 40 man rosters, proportionally. On the plus side, the more Davis plays, the better the Orioles next draft pick...
   7. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 24, 2021 at 03:12 PM (#6001475)
The prospects are not without intrigue, but it does seem strange to me that Taillon, injuries and all, doesn't warrant a prospect on the Yankees top 10 list? IDK. But given the thin packages received for Darvish and Clevinger, maybe I should not be surprised?

Sure seems like the Pirates got jobbed. According to MLB, these guys are the Yankees 15th, 19th, and 23rd best prospects. Escotto is not in the top-30. Three 45's overall on the scouting scale.
   8. Lowry Seasoning Salt Posted: January 24, 2021 at 03:31 PM (#6001477)
Cashman hasn't always succeeded with who he has acquired, but in 20+ years he's barely ever traded players who then did well enough that he probably regretted losing them.
   9. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: January 24, 2021 at 04:12 PM (#6001485)
Duke - Someone correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t Davis entitled to refuse a trip to AAA? I don’t know if he’s a good clubhouse guy or any of that kind of thing and I don’t know if he’s blocking some prospect. They gotta pay him either way I’m not sure what benefit they’d get shipping him out.
   10. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 24, 2021 at 04:47 PM (#6001491)
Duke - Someone correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t Davis entitled to refuse a trip to AAA?

I think that's true once a player exceeds 6 years service time.
   11. JJ1986 Posted: January 24, 2021 at 05:00 PM (#6001492)
I'm not sure if this is current, but it used to be that players with 3-5 years or service time could refuse an assignment, but would forfeit their salary. Players with 5+ could refuse an assignment an collect their salary.
   12. Howie Menckel Posted: January 24, 2021 at 05:13 PM (#6001493)
Cashman hasn't always succeeded with who he has acquired, but in 20+ years he's barely ever traded players who then did well enough that he probably regretted losing them.

Mike Lowell, Tyler Clippard, Nick Johnson, Melky Cabrera, Mark Melancon, Ted Lilly, Ivan Nova (sort of)...
   13. JRVJ Posted: January 24, 2021 at 05:22 PM (#6001495)
11, I think that's the case, at least as I understand the Kei Igawa and Rusney Castillo demotions.
   14. Snowboy Posted: January 24, 2021 at 06:24 PM (#6001500)
OK, I'll bite: what is the regret in trading Nick Johnson?
What did NJohnson do in his career after being traded 2003 that would give the Yankees/Cashman regrets? That he had a decent season in 2006, while the Yanks played Andy Phillips at 1B? That was a few years away, and they still won 97 games that year.
ED: removed comment about the trade return for Johnson, per original point.
   15. Howie Menckel Posted: January 24, 2021 at 07:08 PM (#6001507)
Jeff Passan
@JeffPassan
·
4h
A lot of positive reviews on the Pirates’ return for Jameson Taillon. Contreras and Yajure should be big league pitchers this year. Escotto is a big-upside guy. And two scouts have said they love Smith’s bat. Multiple people said a better package for Pirates than Musgrove return.

"What did NJohnson do in his career after being traded 2003 that would give the Yankees/Cashman regrets? That he had a decent season in 2006"

you're a tough grader.

Johnson had:
2005 - 137 OPS+ in 547 PA
2006 - 149 OPS+ in 628 PA

then
2009 - 122 OPS+ in 574 PA

Johnson's "decent season" in 2006 was good for 6th in the NL in OPS+ and 5th in Adjusted Batting Wins.

the only "decent season" by a Yankees hitter that year was - well, nobody if Johnson is at the bottom of that category. otherwise only DH-1B Giambi at 148 in 579 PA. advantage, Johnson over every single hitter on a 97-win team that was bounced in the first round of the playoffs by the Tigers - with iron-gloved Giambi and Sheffield at first, contributing to the mere 6 runs of offense in the last 3 games of the series.

on New Year's Eve, 2006, does Cashman have any regrets? I'm going with yes.
   16. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 24, 2021 at 07:17 PM (#6001509)
Contreras and Yajure should be big league pitchers this year.

Because they're pitching for the Pirates. Yajure has 18 IP above A-ball, Contreras zero.

Might as well keep them down. If they pitch in MLB this year and are any good, they'll be gone in three years anyway. No way the Pirates are competitive within the next five years.
   17. The Yankee Clapper Posted: January 24, 2021 at 07:28 PM (#6001510)
Cashman hasn't always succeeded with who he has acquired, but in 20+ years he's barely ever traded players who then did well enough that he probably regretted losing them.
Mike Lowell, Tyler Clippard, Nick Johnson, Melky Cabrera, Mark Melancon, Ted Lilly, Ivan Nova (sort of)...
That list does more to prove the premise of #8 than refute it, IMHO. The players listed didn’t become franchise cornerstones elsewhere, just players that did better on other teams for at least some years.

Once the Yankees re-signed 1998 World Series MVP Scott Brosius, they pretty much had to trade Lowell, who had demonstrated he was MLB-ready in 183 AAA games. The 3 pitching prospects received in return didn’t do that much, but Lowell’s 108 Career OPS+ for ~$96M in today’s dollars shouldn’t cause Cashman to lose much sleep. Nick Johnson [tragically] played but 584 games from 2004-2013 after his trade, producing 11.4 WAR. Not an unreasonable price for Javier Vazquez. Melky Cabrera was traded after seasons of 95, 88, 68 & 93 OPS+, amid rumors of excessive partying. He did have a few quality years elsewhere, but under circumstances that probably don’t cause long-term regrets in the Bronx. No GM is infallible, but Cashman’s errors have been more in signings such as Igawa & Ellsbury, rather than the players traded away.
   18. dolce Posted: January 24, 2021 at 10:37 PM (#6001517)
The can't miss prospects the Yankees have traded away in the last 10 years have all missed. Montero, Rutherford, Kaprelian, Mateo, Fowler. Giovanny Gallegos has miraculously turned into a pretty good RP which makes the Voit trade slightly more palatable for the Cardinals.
   19. Snowboy Posted: January 25, 2021 at 12:08 AM (#6001527)
[15] Thanks for the list of possible Cashman regrets, and your response about Nick Johnson.
Maybe I played too much fantasy baseball back then. Maybe I am a tough grader. Maybe Baseball America is not a tough enough grader. BA ranked Nick Johnson as the top Yankees minor league prospect for 1999 and 2000. Then he missed all of 2000 with what BA called "a mysterious wrist injury" but they still ranked him again as #1 NYY prospect for 2001, and projected him to be the starting NYY 1B for 2002. Maybe I expected more out of him.

The Yanks were a powerhouse then, and his 2002 99 OPS+ followed by more injuries in 2003 were enough to get him traded. He did little for Montreal in 2004 in less than 300PA, again health issues. As mentioned, he was good in 2005 & 2006, but the Yankees were not going to wait that long for a 1B to be good and/or healthy. Then he missed all of 2007 and most of 2008.

He was a good hitter (great eye career .400 OBP,) and healthy enough in 2009 to get traded mid-season instead of released or DL'ed in perpetuity, but I really don't believe Cashman or Yankees regret getting Javier Vazquez for him or missed him after he was gone. He went to the NL, and was never named an all-star.
   20. Howie Menckel Posted: January 25, 2021 at 12:23 AM (#6001529)
thanks, snowboy.

about 2006 in particular, Johnson was one of the best hitters in the NL. if he wasn't named an All-Star, that doesn't diminish what he did. that season was definitively better than merely "good" - and depending on one's definition, so was 2005.

plus - and I am guilty of this as all of us - but if we get a list of counters to a proffer, we tend to get distracted by one "shiny object," even if it didn't shine like we thought.

Cashman's blunders have been more on the FA end than the trading end, but the trading end at least is more of a level playing field. he can and did waste tens of millions (even before Ellsbury), but it didn't matter because the Yankees literally could afford it.

I don't think anyone calls him a bad GM, but he's got plenty of evidence on either side of the ledger - including letting some good players get away. even if nobody here wishes Johnson was around in 2006, doesn't mean Cashman doesn't. especially considering his feeble alternatives that season.
   21. Lowry Seasoning Salt Posted: January 25, 2021 at 12:31 AM (#6001531)
Geez, you'd think I said Cashman's track record was impeccable.

The can't miss prospects the Yankees have traded away in the last 10 years have all missed.


Also in the last 10 years, but now ignoring NY’s trades of its own well-regarded prospects, for little or nothing in talent he’s acquired

Ichiro
Brendan Ryan
Martin Prado
Gregorious
Eovaldi
Domingo German
Aaron Hicks
Starlin Castro
Chase Headley
Luis Cessa
Chad Green
Aroldis
Luke Voit (alluded to above)
Tommy Kahnle
Todd Frazier
David Robertson (NY v2)
Giancarlo
Zach Britton
JA Happ
Lance Lynn
Tauchman
Encarnacion

And in money-only trades with other teams he's gotten

Maybin
Urshela

Heck, looking at a likely NY starting lineup next year, these guys were all acquired by trade:

1B Voit
SS Gleyber
3B Urshela
CF Hicks
LF Frazier
DH Stanton

In terms of notable talent lost, to get all that meant giving up Aroldis and Andrew Miller in what was already a lost 2016 season.
   22. Howie Menckel Posted: January 25, 2021 at 02:07 AM (#6001533)
8. Lowry Seasoning Salt Posted: January 24, 2021 at 03:31 PM (#6001477)
Cashman hasn't always succeeded with who he has acquired, but in 20+ years he's barely ever traded players who then did well enough that he probably regretted losing them.


21. Lowry Seasoning Salt Posted: January 25, 2021 at 12:31 AM (#6001531)
Geez, you'd think I said Cashman's track record was impeccable.


so in that ballpark, yeah.

and was Stanton a good "trade?"

and not everyone on that list is head to Cooperstown, especially given their time with the Yankees.

there's a Cashman case to be made, I just don't particularly see it being made here.

Urshela for a box of rocks has been really good.
   23. catomi01 Posted: January 25, 2021 at 06:54 AM (#6001536)
I think the main regret Cashman (and just about anyone hanging their hopes on him had) was that he was made of glass....2006 is fine as a peak season...if its surrounded by longer solid seasons near somewhere between what he did in 2005/2009 and 2006....as late as 2010, Cashman was high enough on Johnson to bring him back (and I distinctly recall comments from him about how big a get he thought adding Johnson and his ".400 OBP" was.

As for at the time of the trade...Johnson and crew for Vazquez was kind of like Montero for Pineda...hugely promising on both sides, and just didn't work out the way either side hoped for the most part.
   24. dolce Posted: January 25, 2021 at 11:37 AM (#6001585)
I think that Cashman's high tendency to "win" trades suggests strong competency over a smaller-than-necessary body of trades. There are likely 10-100x the number of trade opportunities for every 1 trade that occurs for the Yankees. I'd be curious to see how well the Yankees scouting and development arms would do (and improve) if they slightly expanded the agreement parameters for trades. I strongly belief in the Yankee scouting, development, and analytics divisions. Being able to explore more hypotheses should make each division stronger in short and long terms.
   25. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 25, 2021 at 11:40 AM (#6001588)
As for at the time of the trade...Johnson and crew for Vazquez was kind of like Montero for Pineda...hugely promising on both sides, and just didn't work out the way either side hoped for the most part.

Big trades that end up lose-lose are the best. You get all that post trade sturm und drang, and then pfffft, doesn't matter a bit.
   26. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: January 25, 2021 at 11:47 AM (#6001592)
I think the ledger for Cashman has to be seen as positive on the trade front. Yeah he's given away some players but for the most part he's made the right choices on who to give away. That Nick Johnson had a couple good years or Mike Lowell had a good career doesn't eliminate the overall record. I'm sure he had opportunities to deal guys like Soriano, Cano and others in what would have looked like very good deals but he managed to hang onto them.
   27. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 25, 2021 at 11:53 AM (#6001595)
On the flip side, since making the playoffs in 2015, Pittsburgh has traded away Gerrit Cole, Jameson Taillon, Joe Musgrove, Starling Marte, Andrew McCutchen, Charlie Morton and Josh Bell. I'm not even counting Austin Meadows and Tyler Glasnow, who they actually traded away to add Chris Archer to compete.

In return they have received (MLB Pipeline prospect ranking in PIT system)
Miguel Yajure (#14)
Roansy Contreras (#19)
Maikol Escotto
Canaan Smith (#26)
Omar Cruz
Hudson Head (#6)
David Bednar
Endy Rodriguez (#22)
Colin Moran
Michael Feliz
Jason Martin
Eddy Yean (#8)
Will Crowe (#21)
Liover Peguero (#5)
Brennan Malone (#9)
Kyle Crick
Bryan Reynolds
David Whitehead
   28. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: January 25, 2021 at 11:54 AM (#6001597)
The Nick Swisher trade was a great one. CWS panicked after one bad season, and Cashman swooped with some magic beans. Knew when to let him go too.
   29. catomi01 Posted: January 25, 2021 at 12:02 PM (#6001599)
For most of a decade it became hard to really evaluate Cashman objectively too...opposing camps sprang up that basically said every good move was his idea, and anything that went wrong was dictated from Tampa...related to that was the idea that any semi-competent GM would succeed with the budget he had, but that his real talent was navigating the politics of the Yankees ownership and front office. Ultimately its hard to call the Cashman-led Yankees anything less than a success based on the standards of most teams.

He became GM in 1998...and they've never been below 500 since...missed the playoffs 4 times, won 4 world series and another 2 league championships. They were kept away from World Series championships for 8 and currently 11 year runs...but I think that if you gave most organizations and fans the chance at a 20 year+ run like they've had, you'd sign up in a heartbeat. Cashman isn't the sole reason (and might not even be the primary reason) for the Yankees success...but he definitely hasn't been a hinderance.
   30. Ron J Posted: January 25, 2021 at 12:02 PM (#6001601)
#27 Pretty much the same way the '27 Yankees were built, right.
   31. Buck Coats Posted: January 25, 2021 at 01:03 PM (#6001626)
On the flip side, since making the playoffs in 2015, Pittsburgh has traded away Gerrit Cole, Jameson Taillon, Joe Musgrove, Starling Marte, Andrew McCutchen, Charlie Morton and Josh Bell. I'm not even counting Austin Meadows and Tyler Glasnow, who they actually traded away to add Chris Archer to compete.


This is really an indictment of the Pirates organization (but I would point out that Musgrove came in the Cole trade, so you're kind of double-counting him)
   32. Dock Ellis Posted: January 25, 2021 at 02:10 PM (#6001655)
Maikol Escotto seem super interesting. BA had him #27 among Yankees prospects but with the encouraging scouting report they gave him in the 2020 yearbook, I would think he'd rank higher. Plus tools on offense and defense for days, with terrific exit velocity off the bat.

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