Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, July 19, 2021

In divorce documents, Ben Zobrist says Julianna ‘coaxed’ him into returning to the Chicago Cubs

Ben Zobrist’s estranged wife, Julianna Zobrist, says the former Chicago Cubs utility man was “guilty of failing to preserve marital assets” when he took a leave of absence from the team in May 2019, so she will ask a judge to award her an additional $4 million when those assets are divided during next month’s divorce trial, according to pretrial documents obtained by the Chicago Tribune.

“In 2019, he had a contract with the Chicago Cubs for ($12 million), but since he only played for 2 months, his salary was prorated and he only earned ($4.5 million) of the ($12 million) he could have earned,” according to the memorandum filed July 14 in Williamson County, Tenn., by Julianna Zobrist’s attorney, Marlene Eskind Moses of Nashville, Tenn.-based MTR Family Law.

The brief contends that Ben Zobrist “intentionally and voluntarily stopped working” and “essentially went from the top of his game to basically giving up, which caused a massive loss in income.”

Julianna Zobrist is seeking an even split of the marital assets, plus an additional $4 million for the “amount of money he failed to preserve by abruptly and intentionally failing to satisfy his baseball contract.”

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 19, 2021 at 01:31 PM | 102 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: ben zobrist

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 > 
   1. Jeff Francoeur's OPS Posted: July 19, 2021 at 02:07 PM (#6029578)
#####
   2. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: July 19, 2021 at 02:09 PM (#6029581)
what a ####, and so are her lawyers

this is also so very christian of julianna and a ####### pastor
   3. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 19, 2021 at 04:20 PM (#6029588)
Wasn't the concept of hell invented, like, specifically to prevent people from doing #### like that?
   4. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: July 19, 2021 at 04:23 PM (#6029589)
Ugh, I'm sorry I read that. She had an affair with their pastor, who was also their marriage counselor? There's little chance of this, but barring something coming out about inappropriate behavior from Ben, I hope he gets full custody of the children and doesn't have to give her a dime. Adultery is the worst.

Edit: If adultery between two professing Christians didn't infuriate me so much, I would find this paragraph to be fairly hilarious for the incredible amount of double entendre:

All of the Zobrists’ and Yawn’s social media posts and communications may be included among the exhibits, and so will their books, including “Double Play,” cowritten by Ben and Julianna, “Pull It Off,” written by Julianna; and Yawn’s “What Every Man Wishes His Father Had Told Him” and “Things That Go Bump in the Church.”


But alas, I remain infuriated.
   5. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 19, 2021 at 04:53 PM (#6029591)
On top of everything else, he was slugging .253 when "at the top of his game" weeks shy of his 38th birthday.
   6. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: July 19, 2021 at 05:02 PM (#6029592)
what a ####, and so are her lawyers

Sure. But if you had a chance to skim an extra four million dollars, wouldn't you...?
   7. AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale Posted: July 19, 2021 at 05:07 PM (#6029593)
no
   8. CFBF is Obsessed with Art Deco Posted: July 19, 2021 at 05:36 PM (#6029595)
I'm pretty OK never hearing the details of anyone's divorce, come to think of it.
   9. The Duke Posted: July 19, 2021 at 06:08 PM (#6029599)
Pretty smart position to take - she might not get $4 million but she’ll get something. Divorces are always ugly
   10. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 19, 2021 at 06:37 PM (#6029604)
Pretty smart position to take - she might not get $4 million but she’ll get something. Divorces are always ugly


My divorce was very amicable. I have dinner with my ex multiple times a week. Off to dinner soon with them in fact.

My situation is not normal though.
   11. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: July 19, 2021 at 08:46 PM (#6029612)
I hope he gets full custody of the children and doesn't have to give her a dime.


Oh please. Sure, she's done a garbage act but that doesn't make her a bad parent. Save your righteous indignation for something more sinister then an adulterer. Studies show that shared custody between 2 reasonable parents is best for the kids. I didn't see anything about her abusing the kids, etc.

As for the settlement, sure she should get less then what she'd normally get as her actions were sh*t. But as a guy who has an ex wife(mean as a cut snake) and a current wife(most awesome human ever) all I can say is stuff goes on in marriages that you are not privy too.

Sure. But if you had a chance to skim an extra four million dollars, wouldn't you...?


Uh, you're trolling right? It's not that difficult to go out and earn decent cash, sure you might not make $4mil, but at least you'll sleep at night knowing you're a decent person.
   12. NattyBoh Posted: July 19, 2021 at 10:24 PM (#6029621)
If the divorce settlement fails to meet expectations, she can still rely upon merchandise sales from her store.

https://juliannazobrist.com/product/i-fckin-love-jesus-unisex-t-shirt/
   13. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: July 20, 2021 at 12:55 AM (#6029629)
Save your righteous indignation for something more sinister then an adulterer.


I won't. The casual way people treat adultery is disgusting. It's just another form of child abuse by breaking the trust and intimacy that marriage and parenthood are built on.
   14. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: July 20, 2021 at 08:45 AM (#6029630)
I can't get passed the idea of someone named Yawn being involved in a dramatic story.

Also while this story reads very badly for Juliana I'm willing to assume there is a lot we don't know. Both of the Zobrists have struck me as terrible people for awhile.
   15. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 20, 2021 at 09:32 AM (#6029632)
all I can say is stuff goes on in marriages that you are not privy too.


Yes, some of them justify divorce, heck some of them justify homicide, but I don't think any of them justify cheating with your pastor/marriage counselor.
   16. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 20, 2021 at 09:37 AM (#6029633)
Who she cheated with doesn't make much difference on her side of the "Am I a terrible person" meter. She made a promise (in theory, some marriages are different) not to cheat and she broke that promise.

Now on his side, his role certainly adds to his culpability. Cheating with a married person is maybe not great, but in general you are not breaking a promise to anyone. In this case, he was clearly breaking his professional code of ethics, and having an affair with a "client" is really bad.

If everything is as presented, then yeah, kind of terrible people (at least as far as marital and professional ethics). They might be saints in other parts of their life though, people are messy and complex.
   17. Scott Lange Posted: July 20, 2021 at 09:43 AM (#6029634)
Adultery is the worst.

Murder is worse. Also about a million other things.

I won't. The casual way people treat adultery is disgusting. It's just another form of child abuse by breaking the trust and intimacy that marriage and parenthood are built on.

Are you a person or a Scarlet Letter character?
   18. Charles S. is not doing chainsaw bears any more Posted: July 20, 2021 at 09:47 AM (#6029635)
Oh please. Sure, she's done a garbage act but that doesn't make her a bad parent.


I think it kind of does. An enormous part of parenting, perhaps the most significant part, is modeling the kind of adult relationship that your child should aspire to. Dishonesty, humiliation, abuse, cruelty, etc. in the parents' relationship can lead to kids practicing, or falling victim to, that kind of behavior in their own relationships. Job one of being a good parent is being a good partner to the co-parent.
   19. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 20, 2021 at 10:06 AM (#6029637)
Who she cheated with doesn't make much difference on her side of the "Am I a terrible person" meter. She made a promise (in theory, some marriages are different) not to cheat and she broke that promise.

Of course it does. Would say it would be no different if a husband had an affair with his wife's sister, rather than a random woman? It increases the level of betrayal that she was cheating with someone Zobrist thought was helping to try and save their marriage.
   20. Lassus Posted: July 20, 2021 at 10:12 AM (#6029638)
some of them justify homicide, but I don't think any of them justify cheating with your pastor/marriage counselor.

The logic of the faith-based.


Uh, you're trolling right?

It's 99% of his output.


I think it kind of does. An enormous part of parenting, perhaps the most significant part, is modeling the kind of adult relationship that your child should aspire to. Dishonesty, humiliation, abuse, cruelty, etc. in the parents' relationship can lead to kids practicing, or falling victim to, that kind of behavior in their own relationships.

This is a fair and reasonable position up until the point of losing total custody of your children. I see the behavior described in your third sentence constantly, and everyone would lose their goddamned minds if it meant all those children were being taken away. I mean, it doesn't mean it doesn't suck, but there's a TOTAL CUSTODY LOSS level of suck, and this doesn't hit it.
   21. Zonk demands an audit of your post Posted: July 20, 2021 at 10:13 AM (#6029639)
Also while this story reads very badly for Juliana I'm willing to assume there is a lot we don't know. Both of the Zobrists have struck me as terrible people for awhile.


Wait, wait, wait... What exactly is Ben's fault in this?

He quit baseball to focus on his family. Supposedly, his soon-to-be ex-wife's squeeze also defrauded his charity out of millions.

Yeah, he's super-religious - but I'm not aware of him using that as a culture war cudgel and actually, I applaud the religious sorts whose faith takes the form of volunteering, donating to good causes, and focusing on being good neighbors, parents, and the like.

Yeah, 2016 WS MVP fanboy... but if there's a ding against Ben, I'm not aware of it.
   22. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 20, 2021 at 10:19 AM (#6029640)
The logic of the faith-based.


Seriously? You don't think severe physical abuse justifies killing in self-defence? If a man is beating the crap out of a woman, and she kills him in self-defense, she shouldn't even be charged. There's zero faith basis in the statement. You don't need God to justify self-defense.

   23. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: July 20, 2021 at 10:22 AM (#6029641)
Juliana obviously comes off very poorly in general, but the excerpt is about Ben being “guilty of failing to preserve marital assets” by not playing baseball when he was under contract to do so. I don't know family law but I have to say it's not a terrible argument. When I was going through my own divorce I was, like most people, an at-will employee without the luxury of millions of dollars in savings to afford a sabbatical. I went to work every day and gutted through it like most folks. I don't have much sympathy for Ben on this point.
   24. Lassus Posted: July 20, 2021 at 10:30 AM (#6029642)
Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

I suppose, however, I am interchanging homicide for murder, and consider justifiable homicide not what you were referring to.


Wait, wait, wait... What exactly is Ben's fault in this?

Well, it may be nothing; but the point is we really don't know that it's nothing. Maybe she cheated because he was a crappy husband in any number of other ways. I think that was the point of "I'm willing to assume there is a lot we don't know." (And of course, maybe not, it's possible she's just a terrible person. But at first blush I wouldn't call it unassailable yet.)
   25. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 20, 2021 at 10:32 AM (#6029643)
Juliana obviously comes off very poorly in general, but the excerpt is about Ben being “guilty of failing to preserve marital assets” by not playing baseball when he was under contract to do so. I don't know family law but I have to say it's not a terrible argument. When I was going through my own divorce I was, like most people, an at-will employee without the luxury of millions of dollars in savings to afford a sabbatical. I went to work every day and gutted through it like most folks. I don't have much sympathy for Ben on this point.

I think the point is he took time off to ostensibly work on saving his marriage, believing his wife was engaging in therapy with him, in good faith. Since she was shagging the marriage counselor, they were both defrauding Zobrist. Presumably if he knew that, he would have told her to F@#$ off, and kept playing ball.
   26. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 20, 2021 at 10:34 AM (#6029644)
I suppose, however, I am interchanging homicide for murder, and consider justifiable homicide not what you were referring to.

I said homicide, because I meant homicide. I'd also consider discovering someone in the act of sexually abusing your child, and killing them in an act of rage, to be homicide, not murder.
   27. Zonk demands an audit of your post Posted: July 20, 2021 at 10:38 AM (#6029645)
Well, it may be nothing; but the point is we really don't know that it's nothing. Maybe she cheated because he was a crappy husband in any number of other ways. I think that was the point of "I'm willing to assume there is a lot we don't know." (And of course, maybe not, it's possible she's just a terrible person. But at first blush I wouldn't call it unassailable yet.


Maybe, but to expand more broadly...

I'm struggling the more general idea that anyone can dislike Ben.

I mean, Chad Curtis ultimately went to prison - but a whole bunch of people thought he was a dick when he was playing.

I'm not aware of anyone saying the same about Ben.
   28. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 20, 2021 at 10:44 AM (#6029646)
Of course it does. Would say it would be no different if a husband had an affair with his wife's sister, rather than a random woman? It increases the level of betrayal that she was cheating with someone Zobrist thought was helping to try and save their marriage.


Read what I wrote. When the wife cheated she (again in theory) broke her promise to her husband not to cheat. Who she breaks the promise with doesn't increase or decrease the amount she broke the promise. Promise made, promise broken.

If she had broken her promise with some random dude that doesn't make it better or worse on her ledger. She still made a promise and broke it.

Evaluating the moral ledger of the other person, the one she cheated with, that might vary. But none of that matters on her side. I mean unless her promise (implicit or explicit) was "I won't cheat on you with our pastor" or maybe " I won't cheat on you with people you know, but people you don't are fair game."

Her promise (probably) was "I will stay faithful to you" and she broke it.
   29. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 20, 2021 at 11:00 AM (#6029649)

Read what I wrote. When the wife cheated she (again in theory) broke her promise to her husband not to cheat. Who she breaks the promise with doesn't increase or decrease the amount she broke the promise. Promise made, promise broken.

If she had broken her promise with some random dude that doesn't make it better or worse on her ledger. She still made a promise and broke it.


And 99% of people don't agree with you.
   30. winnipegwhip Posted: July 20, 2021 at 11:01 AM (#6029650)
I think I can speak for all kids in split homes....the depths of parents being ######## cannot be measurable when it comes to divorce. Welcome to the world of being a player in the first row of pieces on the chessboard.
   31. Charles S. is not doing chainsaw bears any more Posted: July 20, 2021 at 11:04 AM (#6029652)
If she had broken her promise with some random dude that doesn't make it better or worse on her ledger. She still made a promise and broke it.


I can't entirely agree with this. As with any transgression, there can be "aggravating circumstances". Cheating with a random dude/woman is obviously a broken promise and worthy of disapproval. Cheating with someone close to, and trusted by, your partner makes it worse. You're destroying a second relationship, and it creates the impression that you together are mocking and laughing at (either figuratively or literally) the wronged spouse. To me, that makes it worse. I agree that all infidelity is a betrayal, but there are levels of betrayal.
   32. Nasty Nate Posted: July 20, 2021 at 11:12 AM (#6029655)
When the wife cheated she (again in theory) broke her promise to her husband not to cheat. Who she breaks the promise with doesn't increase or decrease the amount she broke the promise. Promise made, promise broken.

If she had broken her promise with some random dude that doesn't make it better or worse on her ledger. She still made a promise and broke it.
I completely disagree. All broken promises are not created equally.
   33. bigglou115 is not an Illuminati agent Posted: July 20, 2021 at 11:34 AM (#6029660)
Juliana obviously comes off very poorly in general, but the excerpt is about Ben being “guilty of failing to preserve marital assets” by not playing baseball when he was under contract to do so. I don't know family law but I have to say it's not a terrible argument. When I was going through my own divorce I was, like most people, an at-will employee without the luxury of millions of dollars in savings to afford a sabbatical. I went to work every day and gutted through it like most folks. I don't have much sympathy for Ben on this point.


I don't think this is a correct read. He was basically willing to retire if it meant saving his family. What's more, legally you basically have to show intent. The law is written to stop things like selling the house for $1 just to screw your wife (this has happened, high earners have brought their net worth to 0 contemplating divorce), but there's no legal basis for the idea that you have an obligation to maximize earnings.
   34. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 20, 2021 at 11:35 AM (#6029661)
Not defending adultery, but there are many ways that parents can screw up their kids. Adultery/divorce is just one (or two).

It's unfortunate that the Zobrists' divorce is splashed across the headlines. It's really none of our business.
   35. bigglou115 is not an Illuminati agent Posted: July 20, 2021 at 11:35 AM (#6029662)
Double
   36. bigglou115 is not an Illuminati agent Posted: July 20, 2021 at 11:35 AM (#6029663)
Juliana obviously comes off very poorly in general, but the excerpt is about Ben being “guilty of failing to preserve marital assets” by not playing baseball when he was under contract to do so. I don't know family law but I have to say it's not a terrible argument. When I was going through my own divorce I was, like most people, an at-will employee without the luxury of millions of dollars in savings to afford a sabbatical. I went to work every day and gutted through it like most folks. I don't have much sympathy for Ben on this point.


I don't think this is a correct read. He was basically willing to retire if it meant saving his family. What's more, legally you basically have to show intent. The law is written to stop things like selling the house for $1 just to screw your wife (this has happened, high earners have brought their net worth to 0 contemplating divorce), but there's no legal basis for the idea that you have an obligation to maximize earnings.
   37. bigglou115 is not an Illuminati agent Posted: July 20, 2021 at 11:44 AM (#6029664)
Just want to add, if you read this law as she is interpreting it, nobody could leave a high paying, high stress job for a lower paying, lower stress job. You'd basically have an obligation to earn as much money as possible for your entire married life (and presumably she'd make a similar argument if he didn't maximize earnings later as it relates to alimony) This is the kind of situation court's have been increasingly hesitant to push, as it turns out the 70s-80s policy of creating a subclass of impoverished divorced fathers was actually bad for society.
   38. JJ1986 Posted: July 20, 2021 at 11:55 AM (#6029665)
I could probably look this up, but is this like the pastor of their local Methodist church or is it a cult of personality that was founded within the last few years?
   39. Charles S. is not doing chainsaw bears any more Posted: July 20, 2021 at 12:00 PM (#6029666)
Looks like .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) to me.
   40. Hank Gillette Posted: July 20, 2021 at 12:21 PM (#6029669)
It can’t get much more sordid than this. I was struck by this in the article:

Ben Zobrist estimates the total marital estate to be worth $24 million, while Julianna Zobrist values it at just under $31 million.


BRef says that Zobrist earned $86.8 million in his career. Even if you assume that taxes took half of that, it seems that they squandered anywhere from $12-19 million.
   41. Charles S. is not doing chainsaw bears any more Posted: July 20, 2021 at 12:28 PM (#6029670)
BRef says that Zobrist earned $86.8 million in his career. Even if you assume that taxes took half of that, it seems that they squandered anywhere from $12-19 million.

From the article:
In 2018, she averaged $24,000 per month in spending, including $12,500 for rent and $4,000 for furniture rental, until a court order limited her to $30,000 per month for living expenses. Total spending on clothing topped $134,000 in 2018 and $289,000 in 2019.


Life comes at you fast.
   42. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: July 20, 2021 at 01:02 PM (#6029674)
I think the point is he took time off to ostensibly work on saving his marriage, believing his wife was engaging in therapy with him, in good faith. Since she was shagging the marriage counselor, they were both defrauding Zobrist. Presumably if he knew that, he would have told her to F@#$ off, and kept playing ball.

Yeah, maybe I was projecting my own situation a little. But I'm a little suspect that he needed 4 months off work to figure this out. The cynical take is that Ben wanted a long vacation and to shrink the marital estate to screw his ex, though that could easily be refuted if they were going to counseling, etc.

Just want to add, if you read this law as she is interpreting it, nobody could leave a high paying, high stress job for a lower paying, lower stress job. You'd basically have an obligation to earn as much money as possible for your entire married life (and presumably she'd make a similar argument if he didn't maximize earnings later as it relates to alimony) This is the kind of situation court's have been increasingly hesitant to push, as it turns out the 70s-80s policy of creating a subclass of impoverished divorced fathers was actually bad for society.

It's one thing to take a pay cut in exchange for a lower stress job, but it's another to completely take off 4 months when the core part of your job is really only 7-8 months of the year and you only have a few years left of high earnings potential.
   43. Zach Posted: July 20, 2021 at 01:09 PM (#6029675)
The cynical take is that Ben wanted a long vacation and to shrink the marital estate to screw his ex, though that could easily be refuted if they were going to counseling, etc.

The less cynical take would be that the stress and insane travel schedule of an MLB season makes it much harder to patch things up and taking a sabbatical / retiring is a legitimate attempt to remove a major obstacle from the relationship.
   44. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 20, 2021 at 01:13 PM (#6029678)

BRef says that Zobrist earned $86.8 million in his career. Even if you assume that taxes took half of that, it seems that they squandered anywhere from $12-19 million.


He didn't get $7.5 million of the $86.8 because he took time off to focus on his marriage -- that's what this article is about. So the total earnings should be ~$79 million.

It's hard to judge stuff like this from the outside. As #41 notes, she spent a lot of money but not enough to account for the discrepancy. They might have made some bad investments, donated a lot to charity -- one of the lawsuits claims they donated a fair amount to Yawn's church. The article also implies that their house was sold and the proceeds were already split between the two of them -- so that may not be included in the marital estate.
   45. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 20, 2021 at 01:17 PM (#6029679)
It's one thing to take a pay cut in exchange for a lower stress job, but it's another to completely take off 4 months when the core part of your job is really only 7-8 months of the year and you only have a few years left of high earnings potential.


If she didn't want him to take time off during the season, maybe she should have admitted her affair/filed for divorce before May. It's hard to fault him for the timing. (FWIW, the article says that he is asking the judge to consider whether *she* is actually responsible for his taking time off during the season and the dissipation of marital assets.)
   46. Captain Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: July 20, 2021 at 01:23 PM (#6029680)
Maybe she cheated because he was a crappy husband in any number of other ways.


MLB players don't have a great track record vis a vis fidelity. Maybe Zobrist was different. Statistically, it's unlikely. We just don't know.


I can see him retiring to save the marriage, if he thought it was salvageable. He's made a lot of money, I imagine they could scrape by if he opted out of the remainder of his contract? Again, we don't know his motivation. It could be pure, it could be cynical. We just don't know, and I really don't want to, anyway.


It's sad for the kids.
   47. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 20, 2021 at 01:34 PM (#6029682)

MLB players don't have a great track record vis a vis fidelity. Maybe Zobrist was different. Statistically, it's unlikely. We just don't know.

She has not alleged infidelity on his part, FWIW.
   48. DanG Posted: July 20, 2021 at 01:37 PM (#6029683)
From one report:
They reportedly contact each other using pre-paid mobile phones in an attempt to hide their relationship. Yawn’s wife Robin found the phones in May 2019 and informed Julianna’s husband. However, Robin was unaware that her husband and Julianna were involved in a sexual relationship. She was under the impression they shared an emotional relationship.

But, Ben Zobrist discovered they shared a physical relationship in June 2020. Julianna admitted to the claim and confessed she hid the truth from Ben. Furthermore, Ben confided in Byron Yawn when he was having marital problems with his wife and used to ask advice from him. Mr. Yawn reportedly advised him to give his wife some space.

Ben Zobrist is now seeking $6 million in damages from Byron Yawn. he has also accused him of defrauding Zobrist’s charity foundation.

It seems that this "pastor" has zero credentials as a clergyman. From the same report:
Pastor Byron Yawn is the CEO of Forrest Crain & Co., a Nashville-area business consulting firm. Furthermore, Byron was a former lead consultant at Empower Healthcare. He also served as a CEO at McGowan & Associates.

Who Is Pastor Byron Yawn?
Byron Yawn is a former pastor and elder at Community Bible Church in Nashville. He graduated from Mississippi College with a degree in History and English. Yawn is married to his wife, Robin Yawn. They were high school sweethearts.

And from Zobrist's agent last month:
Zobrist has ended his playing career. Though Zobrist has not officially retired, Pucino said that Zobrist is focusing on taking care of his children while going through a divorce. “He’s a devoted dad and grabbing the bull by the horns and taking hold of the situation,” Pucino said.
   49. Traderdave Posted: July 20, 2021 at 01:45 PM (#6029684)
BRef says that Zobrist earned $86.8 million in his career. Even if you assume that taxes took half of that, it seems that they squandered anywhere from $12-19 million


One man's squandering is another man's living a major league life.

And diamonds & private jets aside, many pro athletes, and others who become suddenly loaded, give away a lot: houses for relatives, charities, etc

It's not all that surprising. I've run a couple of portfolios for athletes (who shall remain nameless) and Zobrist math doesn't stick out.
   50. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: July 20, 2021 at 01:50 PM (#6029685)
(FWIW, the article says that he is asking the judge to consider whether *she* is actually responsible for his taking time off during the season

This seems like a pretty fair point since the timing was not necessarily in his hands, though 4 months off still seems excessive to me.

legitimate attempt to remove a major obstacle from the relationship


Ultimately, it was a yawning gap.
   51. TJ Posted: July 20, 2021 at 02:09 PM (#6029686)
Oh please. Sure, she's done a garbage act but that doesn't make her a bad parent.


Well, considering her garbage act has broken up the family and put the kids through some serious trauma, I think it kinda does…
   52. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 20, 2021 at 02:41 PM (#6029688)
I can't entirely agree with this. As with any transgression, there can be "aggravating circumstances". Cheating with a random dude/woman is obviously a broken promise and worthy of disapproval. Cheating with someone close to, and trusted by, your partner makes it worse. You're destroying a second relationship, and it creates the impression that you together are mocking and laughing at (either figuratively or literally) the wronged spouse. To me, that makes it worse. I agree that all infidelity is a betrayal, but there are levels of betrayal.


In my opinion, you are conflating two factors. The situation is made worse, but that doesn't accrue to her. She has plenty of blame in that instance.

If she cheats with rando Ben doesn't know then it is bad and it all goes to her. She cheated.

If she cheats with a guy with a relationship with Ben that is worse (no argument). She takes a huge chunk of it, but the extra goes to him. He is cheating with the wife of someone he knows and has a relationship with. That makes it worse, but I think it goes to the guy. If you are a pastor (or a "pastor") don't cheat with people with whom you have a professional relationship.

Now you could say that some of the extra "badness" goes to her because she knows she is cheating with someone Ben knows, I can see that. Personally, though I think there is more significance in the "Will I cheat" question. Once the cheat barrier is passed then it devolves down to who they want to screw (or more charitably who they fall in love with). You can't control who you are attracted to IMO, but you can control if you act on it.

That is why I blame her for cheating (and the pastor guy for also cheating), for acting on the impulse. But I don't debit for who they cheat with.
   53. Captain Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: July 20, 2021 at 03:10 PM (#6029689)

If she cheats with rando Ben doesn't know then it is bad and it all goes to her. She cheated.


It's possible she felt alienated. In a perfect world, you wait until after the divorce to find solace and companionship.

It seems like she's the villain, but we don't know for sure.
   54. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: July 20, 2021 at 03:11 PM (#6029690)
This seems like a pretty fair point since the timing was not necessarily in his hands, though 4 months off still seems excessive to me.


If you are devoted to your family, there is no amount of time off that is excessive in order to save it. As others have pointed out, there is plenty we don't know about his motivations, but I have no problem with him taking four months off from a job that keeps him out of town half the time in order to focus on saving his marriage and taking care of his children.
   55. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 20, 2021 at 03:22 PM (#6029692)
If you are devoted to your family, there is no amount of time off that is excessive in order to save it.

Assuming you're already rich.
   56. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: July 20, 2021 at 03:24 PM (#6029693)
It seems like she's the villain, but we don't know for sure.


Villain may be too strong, and while there are edge cases that can refute nearly any rule ... in general cheating (i.e. without your partner's consent and knowledge) is no good.
   57. JL72 Posted: July 20, 2021 at 03:34 PM (#6029695)
Assuming you're already rich.


This.

For those of us with regular jobs, regular savings accounts and regular bills, taking off work for four months (or giving up 2/3 of year of salary) is an impossibility. For a lot of MLB players, not so much.

And think of how much it would have saved him had he been successful in preventing divorce.

   58. Captain Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: July 20, 2021 at 03:37 PM (#6029696)




in general cheating (i.e. without your partner's consent and knowledge) is no good.


Agreed, and I feel like a voyeur by posting about this subject, so this will be my last: It's possible that Zobrist and his wife weren't having sex anymore. Maybe this was addressed in TFA. Either way, it's all none of my business and I hope the kids aren't harmed by this (which is wishful thinking).
   59. Lassus Posted: July 20, 2021 at 04:56 PM (#6029710)
Furthermore, Ben confided in Byron Yawn when he was having marital problems with his wife and used to ask advice from him. Mr. Yawn reportedly advised him to give his wife some space.

Well, that's game that has been promoted to the majors, admittedly.

However, you get a secret phone to hide your affair, and then allow the phone to be found by your WIFE? Back to single-A for you.
   60. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: July 20, 2021 at 05:43 PM (#6029715)
Assuming you're already rich.


Assuming nothing. Money has nothing to do with it.
   61. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: July 20, 2021 at 08:23 PM (#6029726)
Assuming nothing. Money has nothing to do with it.


This is a lovely notion, but very few of us have the resources to take 4 months off without an income stream. So yes, money does have something to do with it. I would have loved to have taken off time from work whilst going through my separation and eventual divorce to spend more time around my 5 kids. However the mortgage, school fees and other bills just kept on coming in. I tried to wish it away, but alas, that did no good.
   62. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 20, 2021 at 09:44 PM (#6029731)
This is a lovely notion, but very few of us have the resources to take 4 months off without an income stream.

Exactly. Especially since four months off could easily turn in to several years off. It's not like you can force your employer to hold your job indefinitely. FMLA doesn't cover stuff like this.
   63. base ball chick Posted: July 20, 2021 at 10:14 PM (#6029736)
even if he had decided to retire that day, it wouldn't have mattered seeing as how he was already worth umpty million. taking a leave from work - because he was rich enough that he could - is an awesome thing that i don't see other ballplayers doing when they are getting divorced and can afford a break.

i haven't heard nothing about him doing anything bad to her, even outside of cheating which he hasn't done or you betcher aaz that would have come out right quick

that woman is a greedy, lyin, theivin c-word. outside of some really terrible actions like pretending she's soooooo "christian" while screwing a minister while they both married to someone else. i disremember any gospel preached by the Christ where He said to cheat on your spouse while you taking their stuff and pretending they hurting YOU because of what YOU done

i agree with there being amounts of betrayal - like, a one time screwing of a stranger is less than any kind of affair. and as for affairs i would guess a stranger is less bad than someone you know too which is less bad than your brother/sister/parent/child which is barely less bad than your minister/priest/rabbi who is doing your marriage counseling while stealing from your company at the same time.

Asked Husband. he agrees with this

don't think the kidz don't know nothin bout this. kidz are more knowing than you think. kidz almost always prefer to have both parents if you ask them and they have not been brainwashed by one or the other parent. no matter what one parent done to the other. or even to them. it really does mess with kidz minds bad stuff between their parents
   64. Brian C Posted: July 21, 2021 at 12:44 AM (#6029794)
that woman is a greedy, lyin, theivin c-word. outside of some really terrible actions like pretending she's soooooo "christian" while screwing a minister while they both married to someone else. i disremember any gospel preached by the Christ where He said to cheat on your spouse while you taking their stuff and pretending they hurting YOU because of what YOU done

Well, in fairness, he does appear to be a fake pastor. So the ethics of the cloth don't really apply to him.
In my opinion, you are conflating two factors. The situation is made worse, but that doesn't accrue to her. She has plenty of blame in that instance.

If she cheats with rando Ben doesn't know then it is bad and it all goes to her. She cheated.

If she cheats with a guy with a relationship with Ben that is worse (no argument). She takes a huge chunk of it, but the extra goes to him. He is cheating with the wife of someone he knows and has a relationship with. That makes it worse, but I think it goes to the guy. If you are a pastor (or a "pastor") don't cheat with people with whom you have a professional relationship.

Now you could say that some of the extra "badness" goes to her because she knows she is cheating with someone Ben knows, I can see that. Personally, though I think there is more significance in the "Will I cheat" question. Once the cheat barrier is passed then it devolves down to who they want to screw (or more charitably who they fall in love with). You can't control who you are attracted to IMO, but you can control if you act on it.

That is why I blame her for cheating (and the pastor guy for also cheating), for acting on the impulse. But I don't debit for who they cheat with.

This is an awesomely useless point you are trying to make here, even if anyone agreed with you, which for reasons obvious to everyone other than yourself, no one does or ever will.
   65. Brian C Posted: July 21, 2021 at 12:51 AM (#6029795)
Anyway, there's no part of this story that's the least bit surprising to anyone who saw her preening, blatantly self-promoting renditions of the national anthem.
   66. Lassus Posted: July 21, 2021 at 07:27 AM (#6029803)
her preening, blatantly self-promoting renditions of the national anthem.

To be fair, as a performer allow me to say this isn't exactly any kind of unusually notable behavior.
   67. Jose Is An Absurd Balladeer Posted: July 21, 2021 at 08:57 AM (#6029810)
There's a LOT of criticism of Julianna here that I think is a little unfair. This article was pretty clearly sourced from Ben's side of the equation. I'll concede that if all the facts as laid out are true then yeah Julianna comes across very badly but until we've heard her side more in depth I'm not willing to just blame her as fully as some others seem to be.

When my best friend got divorced his wife happily disclosed a lot of his misdeeds and if you just took her word for it you'd have thought he was the worst person ever. And the fact is he made mistakes but she pulled some #### that she conveniently ignored when telling her story. I suspect in this as most cases of divorce there is more than enough blame to go around.

her preening, blatantly self-promoting renditions of the national anthem.


To be fair, as a performer allow me to say this isn't exactly any kind of unusually notable behavior.


One of the reasons I hate seeing the anthem "performed." Just have the local organist play it and get on with the game.
   68. Charles S. is not doing chainsaw bears any more Posted: July 21, 2021 at 09:22 AM (#6029815)
Jose, if it's a little unfair, it's only very little unfair. As far as we know Julianna has not disputed much of what appears in the article. The end of their marriage has been public knowledge for about two years, and Julianna has never been media shy or reticent about discussing her private life. I'm sure there are plenty of cases where the meek wife is steamrolled by the big, bad major leaguer's PR machine, but that does not seem to be anywhere near the case here. If she had any serious accusations against Ben, they would have been all over the press, and not just the sporting press.
   69. Zonk demands an audit of your post Posted: July 21, 2021 at 10:49 AM (#6029833)
Hey, again -

There seems to be exactly zero evidence that Ben Zobrist is anything other than a very well-liked "nice guy". He was very much slobbered over by teammates, by the press, by local fans at every stop in his career.

There might very well be more to him that we don't know about - and my upthread intent was not to pile on Julianna, rather - I just don't see any reason or item that opposes the idea that Ben's a good guy done wrong.

Even the idea that his "side" is "leaking" stuff doesn't really wash - divorce records are generally public; at least in Illinois, you have to proactively seek to have them sealed... and the source of the stuff is drawn directly from those court filings.
   70. . . . . . . Posted: July 21, 2021 at 11:11 AM (#6029840)
There's a LOT of criticism of Julianna here that I think is a little unfair. This article was pretty clearly sourced from Ben's side of the equation. I'll concede that if all the facts as laid out are true then yeah Julianna comes across very badly but until we've heard her side more in depth I'm not willing to just blame her as fully as some others seem to be.


Yeah, to pile on 68 and 69, my experience is the opposite: often the misbehaving side is also the one doing the leaks (because they need to manufacture misconduct in the proceeding), and the spouse who isn't at fault often declines to disclose harmful information because of the knock on effects on the kids. Two anecdotal examples:

(1) the parents of a friend had an awful divorce when we were ~10 (so ~30 years ago), where the mother was 100% at fault, in fact resulting in a landmark decision in my state that held that if the wife intentionally causes parental alienation, the court can reduce support as a consequence. The decision referenced all the nasty things the mom did to poison her kid. But the dad had declined to put before the Court, so that his kid wouldn't find out, that the reason for the divorce was that he came back from a business trip to discover his wife in bed with his kid's (much younger, female) babysitter.

(2) a colleague of mine divorced his wife and she made all sort of spurious (really crazy) allegations of fraud that resulted in a full on evidentiary divorce trial; my colleague has not raised many issues that justify his decision to leave because he doesn't want his kids (or his kids' friends) to find them in public documents on google.
   71. Charles S. is not doing chainsaw bears any more Posted: July 21, 2021 at 11:21 AM (#6029847)
he came back from a business trip to discover his wife in bed with his kid's (much younger, female) babysitter

Yeah, I think I saw a, um, er, uh, TV movie (Yeah, it was a TV movie. That's the ticket.) about that case.
   72. Traderdave Posted: July 21, 2021 at 12:22 PM (#6029857)
her preening, blatantly self-promoting renditions of the national anthem.

To be fair, as a performer allow me to say this isn't exactly any kind of unusually notable behavior.


Never heard of (or gave a damn about) Mrs. Zobrist before this article, so I googled and read the first sentence of her wiki.

Julianna Joy Zobrist (née Gilmore; born October 5, 1984) is an American Christian musician who performs Christian pop style of electronic dance music.




I read no further....
   73. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: July 21, 2021 at 03:41 PM (#6029892)
There's a LOT of criticism of Julianna here that I think is a little unfair.

It's astonishing how many people are defending Julianna in this thread. (I feel like I'm reading Reddit's "Relationship advice" sub, where everything is the man's fault.)
   74. Charles S. is not doing chainsaw bears any more Posted: July 21, 2021 at 04:30 PM (#6029900)
Other than Jose, who really just wants to hear her side of the story, I don't see anyone defending Julianna. Might you be projecting a little bit?
   75. Jay Seaver Posted: July 21, 2021 at 05:10 PM (#6029909)
Yeah, I see some "must be nice to be able to leave your job for a few months to try and work on your relationship", but that's kind of something else - and, honestly, people do make big life changes to try and save their marriages, and for all that they don't have the money in the bank that Zobrist has, their options aren't quite so all-or-nothing as his. He can't look for another job in the same industry, or try to reduce his hours the way I hypothetically could.

I do kind of think there's a fair amount more pearl-clutching about adultery and collapsing marriage than may be strictly necessary. What Julianna did seems especially crappy, given who the other guy is and the claim she's trying to make on money Ben would have earned, but this sure looks like a marriage that needed to end and if this is what it took to do so, so be it. Hopefully everybody will come out of it in a better place, and while it will be rough on the kids at first, I tend to think that kids who have some logistical issues going between two happy homes have a better time of it than those stuck in one miserable one (though my direct experience is admittedly arm's-length).
   76. Lassus Posted: July 21, 2021 at 06:51 PM (#6029923)
#74, you misspelled "trolling".
   77. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: July 21, 2021 at 09:51 PM (#6029948)
Might you be projecting a little bit?

Oh, you mean like the people defending adultery?
   78. JJ1986 Posted: July 21, 2021 at 10:03 PM (#6029954)
There's like a 3% chance RMc actually read through this thread.
   79. rr: cosmopolitan elite Posted: July 22, 2021 at 12:32 AM (#6029981)
So you're saying he's a Three Percenter?
   80. bookbook Posted: July 22, 2021 at 12:41 AM (#6029983)
There’s a wide gulf between defending adultery and equating adultery to child abuse. Nay, a chasm.
   81. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: July 22, 2021 at 01:22 AM (#6029988)
Oh, you mean like the people defending adultery?


WTF mate? Where are you getting this stuff? Everyone here has condemned her actions and put them in the despicable behaviour box. Jose simply asked for a bit more info and most of us realise that cheating on your partner does put you on the same level of child molester hideousness. Cheating blows, we all know that. It means she's a sh*t partner but she can still be a caring parent. Not the most honest parent mind you, but one that still cares about her kids. If she was horrible to the kids, you can be darn sure that Ben's lawyers would be making that known to the courts.
   82. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: July 22, 2021 at 04:43 AM (#6029995)
Bugger, I really should read these posts before submitting, I meant to say does NOT put you on the same level of child molester hideousness....
   83. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: July 22, 2021 at 07:09 AM (#6029996)
Cheating blows, we all know that. It means she's a sh*t partner but she can still be a caring parent.

Um, no. There's a saying: "The best thing a (person) can do for (their) children is love their (partner)". And ya can't care about your children when you're busy f#@ing the "pastor".

This reminds of the various Jim Leyritz threads where everybody was defending poor ol' Jimmy and nobody gave a damn about the woman he splattered all over the highway. Because, ya know, politics, and drunk-driving laws are totally unprogressive, man, plus Jimmy hit some home runs, so let's let him off with a slap on the wrist. Pathetic.
   84. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 22, 2021 at 08:05 AM (#6029998)
This reminds of the various Jim Leyritz threads where everybody was defending poor ol' Jimmy and nobody gave a damn about the woman he splattered all over the highway.

This is the typical trolling ####### you always do on this site. Leyritz was convicted of a DUI, but the woman who died in the accident was also driving drunk, texting while driving, not wearing a seatbelt, and evidence at trial showed that she likely ran the red light, not Leyritz. Pointing these things out, and saying that Leyritz likely wouldn’t be convicted at trial because of them, is not defending Leyritz or drunk drivers.

If someone says “RMc is a wife beating Nazi ”, and I say “well, RMc is a trolling ####### but there’s no evidence he’s a wife-beating Nazi”, that doesn’t mean I’m defending your ####### trolling, wife beaters, or Nazis.
   85. mike f Posted: July 22, 2021 at 09:01 AM (#6030001)
Folks, [Ignored Comment].
   86. Jay Seaver Posted: July 22, 2021 at 09:02 AM (#6030002)
Um, no. There's a saying: "The best thing a (person) can do for (their) children is love their (partner)". And ya can't care about your children when you're busy f#@ing the "pastor".


(1) Sometimes you get to the point where loving your partner is not an option. It sucks, but it happens, and when a couple reaches that point, a divorce can in fact be the best thing for the kids. Not easy, and not ideal, but sure as heck better than being raised in a home where the parents resent each other and resent the kids for keeping them together.

(2) Of course you can still care about your children even if you're doing crappy things elsewhere. It happens all the time!
   87. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 22, 2021 at 11:14 AM (#6030022)
(1) Sometimes you get to the point where loving your partner is not an option. It sucks, but it happens, and when a couple reaches that point, a divorce can in fact be the best thing for the kids.

I agree, but usually there's a bunch of bad behavior by one or both partners before you get to that point. The fact that the situation is irretrievable, doesn't mean it was destined to be so. Usually if one or both partner hadn't acted badly, they wouldn't be at the point that they couldn't love each other. People don't magically fall in and out of love; they make choices that cause both to happen.

(2) Of course you can still care about your children even if you're doing crappy things elsewhere. It happens all the time!

Yeah but a lot of people "care about their children" in theory, but aren't willing to sacrifice other things they want to do, for the benefit of said children. I've seen it a close hand in my family.
   88. Lassus Posted: July 22, 2021 at 12:20 PM (#6030032)
(2) Of course you can still care about your children even if you're doing crappy things elsewhere. It happens all the time!

Yeah but a lot of people "care about their children" in theory, but aren't willing to sacrifice other things they want to do, for the benefit of said children. I've seen it a close hand in my family.

Well, I'll counter your anecdote by saying that my father treated my mother like crap by cheating on her and getting caught. He treated his three kids great all the time, got re-married - as did my mom - and everyone lived more happily every after.

I get that's not the default, but it's a helluva lot closer than "infidelity makes you a bad parent".
   89. Jay Seaver Posted: July 22, 2021 at 12:21 PM (#6030033)
Usually if one or both partner hadn't acted badly, they wouldn't be at the point that they couldn't love each other. People don't magically fall in and out of love; they make choices that cause both to happen.


The first part is true, but kind of not useful - folks get to the situation and saying "well, you shouldn't have done X" doesn't help anyone. It's maybe something to take into consideration, but it's not the whole character of the people involved. As to the second part, I'm a little more forgiving. People's lives exist beyond their marriages, they have different goals/interests/appetites and grow in different directions. Someone who marries their first love can find out that they're just not cut out for a life where he's on the road half the time. It doesn't have to be cataclysmic, and I tend to think it's healthier to recognize this and accept divorce as a possibility and a path to a better relationship, despite how there are a whole bunch of cultural factors that treat this as "failure".

(FWIW, at some point in the last few years, my parents' second marriages passed the 20-year length of their first. I don't know if they divorced because somebody did something "wrong" or because they just saw where things were heading, and never saw the point of asking. Still, I'm pretty sure they, me, and my brothers are all better off because things went down that way rather than recriminations and attempting to maintain a traditional configuration that wasn't ever going to work again.)

Yeah but a lot of people "care about their children" in theory, but aren't willing to sacrifice other things they want to do, for the benefit of said children.


Oh, sure, but it's a pretty imperfect correlation.
   90. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 22, 2021 at 01:03 PM (#6030036)
The first part is true, but kind of not useful - folks get to the situation and saying "well, you shouldn't have done X" doesn't help anyone. It's maybe something to take into consideration, but it's not the whole character of the people involved. As to the second part, I'm a little more forgiving. People's lives exist beyond their marriages, they have different goals/interests/appetites and grow in different directions. Someone who marries their first love can find out that they're just not cut out for a life where he's on the road half the time. It doesn't have to be cataclysmic, and I tend to think it's healthier to recognize this and accept divorce as a possibility and a path to a better relationship, despite how there are a whole bunch of cultural factors that treat this as "failure".

That's all reasonable, but there's a giant problem there. Accepting divorce as a perfectly OK option going in to a marriage, hugely increases the likelihood of divorce. If you view marriage as a "I'll try it and if I don't like it, I get a different spouse" affair, your willingness to compromise and modify your behavior is going to be much less than if you view it as a lifelong commitment.

And there's no doubt that divorce affects children, especially their ability to trust people and form stable, committed relationships. If the situation in the marriage is bad enough, that trade-off may be worth it.
   91. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 22, 2021 at 01:09 PM (#6030038)
Well, I'll counter your anecdote by saying that my father treated my mother like crap by cheating on her and getting caught. He treated his three kids great all the time, got re-married - as did my mom - and everyone lived more happily every after.

I get that's not the default, but it's a helluva lot closer than "infidelity makes you a bad parent".


Your individual situation isn't necessarily indicative of the general societal impact of divorce, and more important today, failure to form stable couples in the first place. All the evidence shows that, on average, growing up in "complex" families has negative effects on children.
   92. villageidiom Posted: July 22, 2021 at 02:56 PM (#6030056)
This reminds of the various Jim Leyritz threads where everybody was defending poor ol' Jimmy and nobody gave a damn about the woman he splattered all over the highway.
Perusing old threads, I'd say you remember your interpretation of the comments well, but your interpretation lacked a basic comprehension of the comments you were interpreting. Looking back after a decade at some of your comments on the Leyritz case, it's almost as though you had wanted to make a point about other posters, and you weren't going to get things like "what they actually said" or "fundamental understanding of their point" get in the way of that.

Fortunately over the last decade or so you've had plenty of opportunity to dissuade others of the notion that that's your personal brand. I'm sure everyone will think back on all the cases where you didn't just stumble into a thread, misconstrue comments, and take shots at people on that basis. I mean, clearly not this thread. But, y'know, others. Surely someone will suggest one or two.
   93. TJ Posted: July 22, 2021 at 03:03 PM (#6030059)
It sounds like there is a view that “caring about your children” and “being a bad parent” are mutually exclusive. Both can easily be true at the same time. I have dealt with a number of situations where a parent cared deeply about their children and was a horrible parent, usually because they chose to do things they wanted to do regardless of the impact their actions had on their family…
   94. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: July 22, 2021 at 03:04 PM (#6030060)
Re 84: I sincerely hope you never lose anyone to a drunk-driving murderer like Jim Leyritz. But if you ever do, you might be a bit less cavalier about the topic.

If you view marriage as a "I'll try it and if I don't like it, I get a different spouse"

The modern world, in a nutshell.

All the evidence shows that, on average, growing up in "complex" families has negative effects on children.

But I thought children were resilient, or least resilient enough to make it OK for Mommy to screw the pastor...?
   95. GregD Posted: July 22, 2021 at 03:25 PM (#6030061)
I don’t think the question is does infidelity make someone a bad parent.

At some level obviously yes in that it damages the parental relationship

At another level though that’s the wrong question. People don’t lose custody of children because they do a bad thing. For good reason. No one would have custody of children under a failed to always act in kids’ best interest standard

In a world where there are many ways in which people fail themselves and their families, we have a standard of unfit. Not imperfect. Unless you have a view of human perfectibility or a rosy view of orphanages, that’s really the viable standard.
   96. Lassus Posted: July 22, 2021 at 03:36 PM (#6030063)
All the evidence shows that, on average, growing up in "complex" families has negative effects on children.

I'm sure the evidence showing the negative effects on children of parents fighting all the time because they're miserable doesn't exist anywhere.
   97. Charles S. is not doing chainsaw bears any more Posted: July 22, 2021 at 03:41 PM (#6030064)
But I thought children were resilient, or least resilient enough to make it OK for Mommy to screw the pastor...?

Who on earth are you arguing with? Did someone make that point in the imaginary thread that you are apparently reading?
   98. Lassus Posted: July 22, 2021 at 03:50 PM (#6030065)
Perusing old threads

Wow, I commented way too much in that one.

Hilariously, although RMc has me on ignore (or not either way), while I've mellowed a bit, I used to jokingly argue for death-penalty breathalizers. I think drunk driver should be given absolutely terrible punishments. Far worse than they're given today.


Who on earth are you arguing with? Did someone make that point in the imaginary thread that you are apparently reading?

See the comment earlier about RMc's brand.
   99. Captain Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: July 22, 2021 at 04:37 PM (#6030070)


RMc has me on ignore


Me too. The troll doesn't like being trolled.
   100. . . . . . . Posted: July 23, 2021 at 03:47 PM (#6030200)
Re 84: I sincerely hope you never lose anyone to a drunk-driving murderer like Jim Leyritz. But if you ever do, you might be a bit less cavalier about the topic.


RMc, it sounds like you're sensitive about this because you also had a drunk, reckless woman in your family who ran a red light and basically offed herself.
Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 > 

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Rough Carrigan
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogDodgers Albert Pujols Hits the COVID-19 Injured List
(176 - 1:43am, Oct 16)
Last: Ben Broussard Ramjet

NewsblogOT - October 2021 College Football thread
(196 - 1:10am, Oct 16)
Last: Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams)

NewsblogNBA 2021-2022 Season Thread
(18 - 12:53am, Oct 16)
Last: rr: cosmopolitan elite

Newsblog2021 LCS OMNICHATTER!
(126 - 12:37am, Oct 16)
Last: The Ghost of Sox Fans Past

NewsblogBeyond the Selig Rule: Can Baseball Fix Its Pipeline For Managers of Color?
(17 - 11:41pm, Oct 15)
Last: John Northey

Sox TherapyThe Boston Red Sox Will Play for the Pennant
(88 - 8:33pm, Oct 15)
Last: Textbook Editor

NewsblogOT Soccer Thread - Transfer! Kits! Other Stuff!
(417 - 8:05pm, Oct 15)
Last: Pirate Joe

NewsblogTheft Falls To Historic Lows
(29 - 8:02pm, Oct 15)
Last: Ron J

NewsblogMike Shildt out as St. Louis Cardinals manager, per report
(53 - 8:01pm, Oct 15)
Last: The Duke

NewsblogChicago Cubs hire Cleveland Guardians executive Carter Hawkins as their new general manager
(14 - 7:49pm, Oct 15)
Last: SoSH U at work

NewsblogTampa Bay Rays' David Hess diagnosed with cancerous tumor in chest, to start chemotherapy
(2 - 1:05pm, Oct 15)
Last: Mayor Blomberg

Newsblog2021 LDS OMNICHATTER!
(882 - 12:57pm, Oct 15)
Last: What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face?

NewsblogNBA 2021 Playoffs+ thread
(4930 - 12:52pm, Oct 15)
Last: Moses Taylor hashes out the rumpus

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 2021 Discussion
(16 - 12:21pm, Oct 15)
Last: DL from MN

NewsblogOT - 2021 NFL thread
(20 - 12:03pm, Oct 15)
Last: 57i66135 right now is attacking rest

Page rendered in 0.8826 seconds
50 querie(s) executed