Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Sunday, February 26, 2006

Star-Tribune: Tony Batista has faith in his game

Tony Batista and his hallelulu trail mix…

“I’m Tony Batista! From the Dominican Republic!” the new guy said, stepping into the clubhouse for the first time with both arms raised triumphantly above his head. “God brought me here,” Batista said. “I missed one year, but I’m back.”

...I tried to get back [with the Hawks] this year again, but they don’t want me,” Batista said. “So I’m here. Praise God.”

If anyone thought Batista would shrivel from his Japanese experience, they were mistaken. Like anything in his deeply spiritual life, he speaks of it now as part of God’s divine plan. With Fukuoka, he said, he handed out Bibles inside the clubhouse to his Japanese teammates.

“And they read the Bible,” he said, without sounding surprised. “So I think God probably said, ‘You’re done over there. So go back here to Minnesota and talk about Jesus Christ to those guys.’ “

Repoz Posted: February 26, 2006 at 01:26 AM | 156 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: twins

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 2 of 2 pages  < 1 2
   101. JMM Posted: February 27, 2006 at 01:43 AM (#1876152)
I'm just curious because, as unmitigatedly bollocks and cravenly just a money-making scam as the scientologists are, there don't really seem to be any anywhere. Maybe it's something people never really admit in public. Sort of like people who are into golden showers or Yanni.
   102. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: February 27, 2006 at 01:46 AM (#1876157)
I am not declaring anybody specifically a Christian or not, I am just stating my definition of a Christian as somebody who follows the teachings of Jesus.
   103. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: February 27, 2006 at 01:49 AM (#1876160)
JMM -

They're in a good 50% of the central subway stops in Boston and New York. They offer stress tests.

My friend took one of the stress tests. You hold a piece of plastic that connects to a big dial, and they ask you questions about your life. When the dial goes up, it means you're stressed and then they tell you about Scientology. My friend determined that every time he squeezed the plastic thing, the dial went up.
   104. Rob Base Posted: February 27, 2006 at 01:52 AM (#1876164)
I am not declaring anybody specifically a Christian or not, I am just stating my definition of a Christian as somebody who follows the teachings of Jesus.

What if you're a Jew but you accidentally follow the teachings of Jesus. What then? This is hypothetical, of course. I told somebody on the last page to get cancer.
   105. Rob Base Posted: February 27, 2006 at 01:58 AM (#1876168)
Oh, and I have another question: I woke up on the morning after my 26th birthday with blood all over my hand and shirt and my computer was smashed. No idea how that happened or if these things are related. Am I going to hell?
   106. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: February 27, 2006 at 02:00 AM (#1876169)
Oh, and I have another question: I woke up on the morning after my 26th birthday with blood all over my hand and shirt and my computer was smashed. No idea how that happened or if these things are related. Am I going to hell?

No, but you are going to prison after they find the body.
   107. spivey Posted: February 27, 2006 at 02:03 AM (#1876171)
Rob Base: You are... acting like an as$hole

That's rich.
   108. bob gee Posted: February 27, 2006 at 02:03 AM (#1876172)
$cientology is focused on cities because that's where the meat / money is.

they also have a couple places within 10 blocks of times square; one is across the street from
the mariott (next to where the howard johnson's used to be, on the 4* st, not broadway or the avenue) and another is something like 43rd/10th.

i actually only once ever saw their stress tests set up at port authority bus station, and never saw them at grand central (worked in midtown nyc for several years), though i know that was part of their recruitment strategy.

they also recruit on colleges when they can sneak in there.
   109. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: February 27, 2006 at 02:04 AM (#1876174)
You mean ethnic Jew? In that case, no problem. Or religious Jew? Then, I'd have to say no. One would also have to accept Jesus as the Messiah.

However, that is a tough hypothetical to be. How can somebody accept both Exodus 21:23-25 and Matthew 5:38-41? One can certainly follow Leviticus 11, but how can they consider it docterine in light of Mark 7:19? Same with Exodus 20:8-11 and Mark 2:27-28.
   110. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: February 27, 2006 at 02:07 AM (#1876175)
Rob Base: You are... acting like an as$hole

We need to get iksvel in here. He's bad, too, but at least he's acidic. He neutralizes Base.
   111. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: February 27, 2006 at 02:09 AM (#1876176)
i actually only once ever saw their stress tests set up at port authority bus station, and never saw them at grand central (worked in midtown nyc for several years)

They were in the Times Square station, hawking books (only $8.95!) in the area between the staircases at 42nd and 7th and the 1/2/3 train platform. I haven't been down there lately, so I don't know if they're still there. I was considering taking the test, but never got around.
   112. Rob Base Posted: February 27, 2006 at 02:09 AM (#1876177)
Beneath contempt, Spivey. Beneath confucking-tempt.
   113. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: February 27, 2006 at 02:11 AM (#1876178)
We need to get iksvel in here. He's bad, too, but at least he's acidic. He neutralizes Base.

That's one of your better cracks and, yet, you didn't grace it with the </witty pun> tag. What give?
   114. Gaelan Posted: February 27, 2006 at 02:21 AM (#1876185)
What strikes me as the oddest thing about all of the Hebraic religions is this: If there is a God, and She is omnipotent, omniscient, and all-loving regardless, why would She care if anybody worships Her? It just seems very likely to me that we've built God in our image, not the other way around.


This is the meaning of Nietzsche's famous aphorism. "If there were gods I could not stand not being one. Therefore there are no gods."

Or something like that.
   115. E., Hinske Posted: February 27, 2006 at 02:27 AM (#1876187)
Well, yeah, duh. I'm just wondering (slightly) if anyone has ever actually met one in real life, since they only seem to exist in show biz.

A buddy and I were incredibly drunk one Friday night and we wandered past the Scientology place. We went in and talked for a while but what they had to say didn't really make sense.

As for Rob Base, what I'm ofended most by is the tie he's wearing with that shirt/suit. Ouch.
   116. JMM Posted: February 27, 2006 at 02:30 AM (#1876188)
$cientology is focused on cities because that's where the meat / money is.

Never seen any in downtown SF; maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention. Or rather, was paying the proper amount of attention to them.

I actually meant if anyone knew any in the sense of just as some guy who know who happens to be a scientologist, in the same sense that you know some Muslims at work or the Jain guy in high school or whatever, rather than running into recruiters.
   117. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: February 27, 2006 at 02:31 AM (#1876190)
I actually meant if anyone knew any in the sense of just as some guy who know who happens to be a scientologist, in the same sense that you know some Muslims at work or the Jain guy in high school or whatever, rather than running into recruiters.

Unless one lives in Clearwater or works in Hollywood, I don't imagine one would.
   118. JMM Posted: February 27, 2006 at 02:42 AM (#1876197)
Maybe the SF theatre scene isn't desparate enough to attract enough recruits.
   119. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: February 27, 2006 at 02:48 AM (#1876202)
I am not declaring anybody specifically a Christian or not, I am just stating my definition of a Christian as somebody who follows the teachings of Jesus.
The teachings of Jesus as you interpret them. Tons of people interpret them differently, and claim to be Christians. I'm recommending you wait before defining all those multitudes as un-Christian.
   120. Dan 'The Boy' Werr Posted: February 27, 2006 at 02:53 AM (#1876204)
in the same sense that you know some Muslims at work or the Jain guy in high school or whatever

I'm guessing you're not from Eastern Washington.
   121. JC in DC Posted: February 27, 2006 at 02:55 AM (#1876205)
The teachings of Jesus as you interpret them. Tons of people interpret them differently, and claim to be Christians. I'm recommending you wait before defining all those multitudes as un-Christian.


This seems like kindof a facile point, Matt. Sure, there are multiple interpretations, but I would think acknowledging that Jesus is the Messiah's got to be a fairly unavoidable starting point.
   122. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: February 27, 2006 at 02:56 AM (#1876206)
I am not declaring anybody specifically a Christian or not, I am just stating my definition of a Christian as somebody who follows the teachings of Jesus.
By your definition, was Gandhi a Christian? I'd argue that he embodied the character of Christ better than (almost?) any figure in the 20th century and was certainly well versed (if you will) in the Bible, to boot. I ask this honestly - following the teachings of Jesus is at least part of being a Christian (maybe the only part), most arms of the Christian church ask a little more (sacraments, acceptance of certainly theological matters, etc...).

Moving on - (Obviously,) a lot of people that self-identify, or are described by others, as Christian drift significantly from His teachings (and/or your intrepretation of them) - either in practice or belief. Are they not Christian? Does it matter more for the purpose of discussing Tony Batista what someone is or what they are held to be? [Wait a minute...]

As for your comments on MySpace (which I had read, btw), you might like this. [note: decidedly liberal content within]. With regard to how one's religious/moral beliefs inform your politics ... the world is complicated and there a lot of ways to do good works - the important thing is to do them.
   123. Rob Base Posted: February 27, 2006 at 02:58 AM (#1876207)
You mean ethnic Jew? In that case, no problem. Or religious Jew? Then, I'd have to say no. One would also have to accept Jesus as the Messiah.

However, that is a tough hypothetical to be. How can somebody accept both Exodus 21:23-25 and Matthew 5:38-41? One can certainly follow Leviticus 11, but how can they consider it docterine in light of Mark 7:19? Same with Exodus 20:8-11 and Mark 2:27-28.


Nuts. Well, I guess I might as well drink a lot and chase tail.
   124. JC in DC Posted: February 27, 2006 at 03:01 AM (#1876208)
Why is pressing Gagne on his definition of membership in Christ's body so important? I can't help but feel like this is debate point scoring. Ok, so there's some play in this, and ok, so some people can float the anonymous Christian view. But that's certainly a minority opinion in the history of Christianity, and certainly the vast doctrinal opinion of the Christian churches points to submission of oneself to Jesus as Lord in some overt way (as Gandhi certainly did not). It's Kant and the modern project that wants to reduce Christianity to the limits of moral behavior alone.

But whatever. So Gagne believes Jews shouldn't count as Christians. Does that really bother or suprise anybody?
   125. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: February 27, 2006 at 03:01 AM (#1876210)
I might as well drink a lot and chase tail.

Yours or somebody else's?
   126. Rob Base Posted: February 27, 2006 at 03:02 AM (#1876211)
I might as well drink a lot and chase tail.

Yours or somebody else's?


No comment.
   127. JC in DC Posted: February 27, 2006 at 03:03 AM (#1876212)
Yours or somebody else's?


In either case I suspect he'll have the same outcome, rLr.
   128. JMM Posted: February 27, 2006 at 03:04 AM (#1876214)
<u>in the same sense that you know some Muslims at work or the Jain guy in high school or whatever</u>

I'm guessing you're not from Eastern Washington.


I was born in Pullman, but haven't been back since I was 5 months old.

But, no, not really.
   129. JC in DC Posted: February 27, 2006 at 03:05 AM (#1876215)
suprise? WTF is wrong with me?
   130. JMM Posted: February 27, 2006 at 03:07 AM (#1876217)
So Gagne believes Jews shouldn't count as Christians. Does that really bother or suprise anybody?

If he did, I would imagine there might be a few Jews who would be offended. Not "the Mormon Church baptized my grandmother who was killed in the Holocaust" offended, but still quite annoyed.
   131. Rob Base Posted: February 27, 2006 at 03:07 AM (#1876218)
WTF is wrong with me?

Fugly?
   132. JC in DC Posted: February 27, 2006 at 03:09 AM (#1876221)
If he did, I would imagine there might be a few Jews who would be offended.


Really? Why? I don't get this at all. Why would a Jew be offended that someone thought they weren't Christian?

I speak btw as a Jew by birth.
   133. JC in DC Posted: February 27, 2006 at 03:10 AM (#1876222)
Fugly?


I'm not fat.
   134. Dan 'The Boy' Werr Posted: February 27, 2006 at 03:10 AM (#1876223)
I was born in Pullman, but haven't been back since I was 5 months old.

Wow, that's kind of funny.
   135. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: February 27, 2006 at 03:11 AM (#1876225)
Why is pressing Gagne on his definition of membership in Christ's body so important?
I'd like to know what he has to say and I'd like him to think about things which I consider important; if I wanted to win debate points, I'd be hanging out in a different thread.
   136. JMM Posted: February 27, 2006 at 03:14 AM (#1876229)
That wasn't as clear as I thought it was. I meant that if Gagne (or someone else) thought Jews did count as Christians, they might be offended, though annoyed might be a more accurate term.
   137. JC in DC Posted: February 27, 2006 at 03:15 AM (#1876231)
I'm not fat.


C'mon, Base, you've got to love that reply.
   138. JC in DC Posted: February 27, 2006 at 03:16 AM (#1876234)
Indeed; I get your point now, JMM.
   139. JMM Posted: February 27, 2006 at 03:18 AM (#1876236)
I blame the mayor of pederast mayor of Spokane.
   140. Rob Base Posted: February 27, 2006 at 03:28 AM (#1876242)
I'm not fat.



C'mon, Base, you've got to love that reply.


Yep. Pwn3d.
   141. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: February 27, 2006 at 03:40 AM (#1876251)
This seems like kindof a facile point, Matt. Sure, there are multiple interpretations, but I would think acknowledging that Jesus is the Messiah's got to be a fairly unavoidable starting point.
If that was all Gagne meant, then I was misreading him.

I thought he was saying that "following the teachings of Jesus" required a combination of economic justice with stances against abortion and gay marriage, among other things. I'm pretty sure he had very specific teachings in mind.

I dunno. I don't like the religion debates here much because they tend to define the sides such that hardly anyone in the real world fits on one side or the other. So by responding in the terms of the debate, I was recapitulating that stuff, which was bad.
   142. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: February 27, 2006 at 03:41 AM (#1876252)
Thanks for the link, Der. I found that article very refreshing.
   143. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: February 27, 2006 at 04:13 AM (#1876269)
The teachings of Jesus are pretty much everything that Jesus stood for and are found in the Gospels and sometimes specified in the Epistles. I think a Christian is one who accepts Jesus as the messiah, but as James said:
By faith itself, if it has no works, is dead.-James 2:17

A person needs to justify their faith through their actions.
   144. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: February 27, 2006 at 04:15 AM (#1876271)
I didn't put my witty pun tag on comment 110, because the last time I used that tag, i got dissed pretty badly.
   145. AJMcCringleberry Posted: February 27, 2006 at 04:33 AM (#1876279)
So was Batista the high bidder for this?
   146. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: February 27, 2006 at 04:50 AM (#1876283)
14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.-James 2:14-17

This pretty much sums up what I said.
   147. DCW3 Posted: February 27, 2006 at 05:04 AM (#1876289)
Pearls Before Swine is my favorite comic strip.

Wow, Gagne and I have something in common. That's a new one. (Well, I guess we're both baseball fans.)
   148. E., Hinske Posted: February 27, 2006 at 06:04 AM (#1876328)
So was Batista the high bidder for this?



The question and answer on that auction (it's for a piece of sheet metal featuring an image of Jesus) is awesome. The questioner asks what the guage and dimensions of the metal are. Who sees this and thinks "I wonder what the guage on that metal is?"
   149. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: February 27, 2006 at 07:47 AM (#1876375)
A person needs to justify their faith through their actions.

I would say that it is through actions that faith is demonstrated, not that actions define faith. This may border on semantics.
   150. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: February 27, 2006 at 10:03 AM (#1876419)
For the record posts 125-127 were absolute-freakingly hilarious....well done guys.

Best Regards

John
   151. All In The Guetterman, Looking Up At The Stargell Posted: February 27, 2006 at 11:05 AM (#1876421)
I think that last part is practically undeniable, but not so much "we" as each individual builds god in his/her image. Which is why the same faiths "inspire" Pat Robertson and the KKK or Osama bin Laden and the Wahabbist movement on one hand, yet Martin Luther King and Jimmy Carter or Muhammad Ali and Richard Thompson on the other (even with the respective feet of clay). Pat Robertson isn't a goat molesting son of a ##### because he's a Christian; his Christianity is the cloak in which he clothes his reprehensibleness. If Christianity -- or religion in general -- didn't exist, the Robertsons and bin Ladens of the world would find other means to be evil, and Jimmy Carter would just go on building more houses for poor people.


I get your point, but it also lets certain types of religions off the hook all too easily.

Religions *are* ideologies; older, and thus based on myths and ethics rather than philosophies, but ideologies all the same. And they sure as hell aren't created equal.

Radix malarum est cupidatas is no doubt true (just ask a decent human being about a Randroid!), but the urge to convert has to give it a run for its money. And not all religions/ideologies have the demand to proselytise explicitly stated in their Holy Books equally; not all have the same command from God (or "History" or "Reason") to aggressively convert. Of religions, the monotheists (Xtians and Muslims; Jews not nearly so much) are by far the worst for claiming universality, the worst at urging their followers to convert the "other".

Politically-economically, the worst is probably the Trotskyist variety of Marxism (which is not to leave Lenin off the hook, but he also sometimes learned his lessons and stepped back from "internationalism"), Western Globalism and Fascism -- these are the monotheist-equivalent, universalist ideologies. Classic Euro and American Imperialism fails the test on one crucial count but comes close otherwise. Roman Imperialism does and does not make the cut depending on era.

Universalism, and the urge to convert which drives it, begets murder and monsters. Period. Ideologues and religious nuts will cheerfully destroy the world to "save" it.

Jesus was cool; it's the dreadful St. Paul that made him into the universalist he was not. I don't know enough about Mohammed to say if the later imams did the same trick with him, too, but it wouldnt surprise me if they did.

For the inevitable rebuttals alongs the lines that, hey, there's been sectarian wars apart from the monotheists-universalists, that's true. But religion was not, in those cases, at once the crutch and the spur to the conflict. It was more window dressing. Or, as in the cases of Hindus, a *reaction* against the invasion of those <strike>hell-</strike> heaven-bent on conversions. Humanity has quite enough problems with ethnic/nationalist conflicts, and petty wars of greed and resource-robbing, which is why only the most dedicated misanthrope, imo, would encourage the religious-ideological impulse.
   152. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: February 27, 2006 at 12:28 PM (#1876424)
Universalism, and the urge to convert which drives it, begets murder and monsters. Period.
I basically agree here, actually, if I had to pick one way of boiling down Western history to one trend, the problem of universalism would be it.

What I would caution, though, is that it is exactly this universalism and the values it constructs that allow for your critique. Western universalist tradition has created also a set of tools for the encouragement of justice across cultures that I don't think you want to give up, from the tone of your post.

You can fall in with Rene Girard and try to escape the modern world, but his "escape" was a truly Western universalist one, the belief that he could take on fully another culture.
   153. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: February 27, 2006 at 12:29 PM (#1876425)
Guenon, not Girard.

Though Girard was a bit of a prick, too.
   154. bob gee Posted: February 27, 2006 at 02:22 PM (#1876458)
jmm - the number of active, practicing, full-fledged $cientologists is very small. the numbers tossed out there include anyone who has taken a course, signed up for a test, bought a book, etc.

the thought has always been - pamper the celebrities, to recruit the raw meat. suck the money out, go on to the next one.

stats, stats, stats!
   155. Dan Szymborski Posted: February 27, 2006 at 03:00 PM (#1876473)
A buddy and I were incredibly drunk one Friday night and we wandered past the Scientology place. We went in and talked for a while but what they had to say didn't really make sense.

What, human souls actually being aliens trapped by Xenu and thrown into a volcano doesn't make sense to you?
   156. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: February 28, 2006 at 05:33 AM (#1877786)
I have just posted a blog on Myspace about "What is a Christian."
Page 2 of 2 pages  < 1 2

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
TedBerg
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogCollege baseball pitcher Sang Ho Baek dies after complications from Tommy John surgery
(19 - 1:17am, Jun 22)
Last: Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams)

NewsblogSo no one told you OMNICHATTER! was going to be this way, for June 21, 2021
(27 - 12:26am, Jun 22)
Last: Howie Menckel

Sox TherapyAnd Breathe
(28 - 11:34pm, Jun 21)
Last: the Hugh Jorgan returns

NewsblogNBA 2021 Playoffs+ thread
(1856 - 11:03pm, Jun 21)
Last: Dandy Little Glove Man

NewsblogOT Soccer Thread - In Which Euro 2020 Is Played in 2021
(248 - 10:51pm, Jun 21)
Last: AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale

NewsblogBaseball Reference Adds Negro Leagues Statistics, Rewriting Its Record Book
(162 - 10:32pm, Jun 21)
Last: sunday silence (again)

NewsblogRays call up top prospect Wander Franco
(6 - 9:07pm, Jun 21)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogEmpty Stadium Sports Will Be Really Weird
(13254 - 8:48pm, Jun 21)
Last: Never Give an Inge (Dave)

NewsblogThe story of honoring Negro League history and a search for buried treasure
(1 - 8:31pm, Jun 21)
Last: Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc

NewsblogJuneteenth Weekend OMNICHATTER, for June 18-20, 2021
(137 - 1:08pm, Jun 21)
Last: Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama

NewsblogI Am Breaking My Silence About the Baseball Player Who Raped Me
(2 - 7:15am, Jun 21)
Last: Never Give an Inge (Dave)

NewsblogThe Padres Need a First Base Upgrade
(2 - 5:25pm, Jun 20)
Last: Joyful Calculus Instructor

NewsblogOT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (June-August 2021)
(3 - 2:46pm, Jun 20)
Last: Ben Broussard Ramjet

NewsblogHow baseball’s response to RFK’s death inspired some players to fight back and sit out
(1 - 8:45am, Jun 20)
Last: willow19

NewsblogFrom the spitball to Spider Tack: A brief history of foreign substance use by pitchers in baseball
(2 - 12:46am, Jun 20)
Last: the Hugh Jorgan returns

Page rendered in 0.4457 seconds
48 querie(s) executed