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Sunday, May 14, 2006

STL Today: Hummel: Herzog laments Royals’ plight

Herzog and The Wild Royal Blue Yonder…

“The last eight years, attendance has been dropping and the team keeps getting worse,” Herzog said. “It’s almost like Montreal, where they used to have a lot of good players throughout the league. The Royals have a lot of players in the league who were once Royals, but they aren’t anymore.”

“You’ve been hearing about them for all these years,” he said. “(Manager) Tony Pena started out that one year 16-1 and then they ended up 83-79. They thought they were going to be good and they spent a little money the next year (see Benito Santiago, Juan Gonzalez) and they were horrible.

“Then they choose a new manager and say they’re going to stay with the plan. But I’m wondering what the hell the plan is. The plan is you’ve got to win. It’s as simple as that.”

Repoz Posted: May 14, 2006 at 01:19 PM | 38 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: royals

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   1. TOLAXOR Posted: May 14, 2006 at 01:46 PM (#2019185)
The plan is you’ve got to win. It’s as simple as that.

   2. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: May 14, 2006 at 03:07 PM (#2019206)
As far as Royals alumni around the Majors...

I'd argue they're one of the worst when it comes to this department, but I haven't done an exhaustive count.

Now the Marlins. There's a team with a lot of alumni.
   3. Rob Base Posted: May 14, 2006 at 04:24 PM (#2019239)
They should have signed somebody that wasn't coming off of steroids.
   4. Brandon in MO (Yunitility Infielder) Posted: May 14, 2006 at 04:28 PM (#2019243)
Bring back Whitey!
   5. TOLAXOR Posted: May 14, 2006 at 06:02 PM (#2019387)
   6. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 14, 2006 at 07:41 PM (#2019743)
Royals Alum

C Gregg Zaun
1B Jeff Conine
2B Mark Ellis
3B Joe Randa
SS Desi Relaford
LF Johnny Damon
CF Carlos Beltran
RF Jermaine Dye
DH Raul Ibanez

C Sal Fasano
IF Neifi Perez
OF Endy Chavez

SP Jeff Suppan
SP Jon Lieber
SP Paul Byrd
SP Miguel Batista
SP Glendon Rusch
RP Brian Shouse
RP Jason Grimsley
RP Hector Carrasco
RP Roberto Hernandez
RP Brian Meadows
RP Jaime Walker
   7. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: May 14, 2006 at 08:05 PM (#2019791)
That team would lose more than it won.
   8. Gaylord Perry the Platypus (oi!) Posted: May 14, 2006 at 08:43 PM (#2019905)
Perhaps so, rLr, but it would be better than the current Royals team.

More importantly, there are at least some players to build around there. There really aren't many in KC now...
   9. SouthSideRyan Posted: May 15, 2006 at 02:35 AM (#2020316)
But that's not even a list of purely guys developed by them. That's just anybody who played with them. That's gotta be the worst roster of that kind in baseball.
   10. Dr. Vaux Posted: May 15, 2006 at 04:03 AM (#2020385)
For the past two or three years, that team would have had slightly below-average offense and slightly above-average pitching; it would probably win around 85 games, depending on what division it was in.
   11. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: May 15, 2006 at 04:23 AM (#2020389)
But that's not even a list of purely guys developed by them. That's just anybody who played with them. That's gotta be the worst roster of that kind in baseball.

I don't know, what about the Devil Rays? There are hardly any ex-Devil Rays in the majors who are any better than the players the Devil Rays have right now.

Devil Rays alumni:

C) Robert Fick
1B) Marlon Anderson? Geoff Blum? I have no idea
2B) Miguel Cairo
SS) Chris Gomez? Damian Rolls? I have no idea
3B) Vinny Castilla
LF) Quinton McCracken
CF) Randy Winn
RF) Jose Cruz Jr.

C) John Flaherty
IF) Some guy who sucks
OF) Some other guy who sucks
DH) Ben Grieve

SP) Joe Kennedy
SP) Victor Zambrano
SP) Tanyon Sturtze
SP) Paul Wilson
SP) Chad Gaudin
RP) Danys Baez
RP) Dan Wheeler
RP) A bunch of guys who suck
   12. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: May 15, 2006 at 04:24 AM (#2020390)
Sorry, Victor Zambrano would be on the DL. Put Dewon Brazelton in his place.
   13. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: May 15, 2006 at 04:31 AM (#2020392)
Whoops, apparently Cory Lidle and Jason Johnson were on the Devil Rays at one point, which I do not remember at all. They would beat out Tanyon and Gaudin for the rotation I guess.

Still much worse than the Royals alumni.
   14. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: May 15, 2006 at 04:34 AM (#2020394)
Is Grieve with a Major League team?

I don't see him listed with any.
   15. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: May 15, 2006 at 04:37 AM (#2020395)
It's hard to find a single player who can hit at all who could be listed as DH for that team, but apparently Matt Diaz would fit.

Also, Tony Graffanino can be the shortstop.
   16. SouthSideRyan Posted: May 15, 2006 at 04:52 AM (#2020398)
I'd throw Borowski, Eduardo Perez, Matt Diaz, Jorge Sosa, Javier Valentin, Antonio Perez, Jose Guillen, Graffanino, Lidle, Roberto Hernandez, and Jason Johnson on there. That's only their guys that saw major league time, though I can't really think of anybody who was traded as a Tampa prospect and became anything, I may be blanking though.

But yeah, that's still pretty pathetic, and worse than the Royals.
   17. Boots Day Posted: May 15, 2006 at 05:02 AM (#2020401)
Does Bobby Abreu count?
   18. Harold can be a fun sponge Posted: May 15, 2006 at 05:15 AM (#2020408)
Well, this could be fun to look at every team's alumni team. Obviously these teams will be much better than average MLB teams, as so many players can be double-counted, and the only players who are ineligible are those still with their first team. And this rewards turnover as much as quality. But this is all frivolity anyway.

The Padres' team:

C: Ramon Hernandez
1B: Derrek Lee
2B: Mark Loretta or Jason Bartlett
3B: Joe Randa? Burroughs? Move Nevin back to 3B?
SS: Graffanino? Alex Gonzalez? Chris Gomez? Jason Bartlett?
OF: Xavier Nady
OF: Jason Bay
OF: Mark Kotsay
SP: Brett Tomko
SP: Adam Eaton
SP: Brian Lawrence
SP: David Wells
SP: Oliver Perez
RP: Dan Wheeler
RP: Rudy Seanez
RP: Aki Otsuka

OK, there are others, but I don't feel like spending any more time on this right now.
   19. Dr. Vaux Posted: May 15, 2006 at 05:30 AM (#2020413)
This would be an interesting tool to play with and see how good GMs are; it might be a good idea or not. That Padres team looks a little worse than their actual current team.
   20. SouthSideRyan Posted: May 15, 2006 at 05:47 AM (#2020418)

C: Miller
1B: Nomar
2B: Grudz
SS: J. Hernandez
3B: Mueller
LF: Alou
CF: Lofton
RF: Patterson

BN: Young
BN: Stairs
BN: Bellhorn
BN: Matthews
BN: Cairo
BN: Bako

SP: Clement
SP: Lieber
SP: Trachsel
SP: Cruz
SP: Mitre
RP: Farnsworth
RP: Borowski
RP: Gordon
RP: Worrell
RP: Tavarez
RP: Batista

Yeah, that's pretty awful too.
   21. My guest will be Jermaine Allensworth Posted: May 15, 2006 at 06:05 AM (#2020423)
My guess at the White Sox:

C: Miguel Olivo
1B: Olmedo Saenz (if Frank Thomas doesn't count)
2B: Aaron Miles
3B: Tony Graffanino
SS: Royce Clayton
LF: Carlos Lee
CF: Aaron Rowand
RF: Magglio Ordonez
DH: Frank Thomas (or Carl Everett, if Frank is 1B)

BN: Jeremy Reed
BN: Sandy Alomar Jr.
BN: Mike Cameron
BN: Julio Franco
BN: Geoff Blum

SP: Bartolo Colon
SP: David Wells
SP: Josh Fogg
SP: Esteban Loaiza
SP: Kip Wells

RP: Gary Majewski
RP: Keith Foulke
RP: Bob Howry
RP: Scott Eyre
RP: Luis Vizcaino
RP: Damaso Marte
   22. Ozzie's gay friend Posted: May 15, 2006 at 06:07 AM (#2020424)
it's fun using only guys the team drafted, albiet harder for a number of teams.
   23. SouthSideRyan Posted: May 15, 2006 at 06:13 AM (#2020425)
If it was guys only the team drafted or signed as an amateur, the Cubs wouldn't be able to fill out a starting lineup I count 7 of my 25 man roster as Cub originals, with only 2 position players. Really, really sad.
   24. JMM Posted: May 15, 2006 at 07:02 AM (#2020434)
Is Grieve with a Major League team?

I don't see him listed with any.

After not making an opening day roster, he apparently decided to move on with his life and has apparently left baseball.
   25. It's Spelled With a CFBF, But Not Where You Think Posted: May 15, 2006 at 07:02 AM (#2020435)
The Braves:

C: Javy Lopez. Johnny Estrada, if you're in a switch-hitting mood.
1B: Er, Julio Franco? Robert Fick? It's not a distinguished group.
2B: Tony Graffanino. (He seems to be a popular one.)
3B: Vinny Castilla. Andy Marte might take over this spot in a few years.
SS: Rafael Furcal
OF: JD Drew
OF: Kenny Lofton
OF: Gary Sheffield
SP: Greg Maddux
SP: Tom Glavine
SP: Jason Schmidt
SP: Kevin Millwood
SP: Paul Byrd? O'Dalis Perez?
RP: Rudy Seanez
RP: Kyle Farnsworth
RP: Chris Hammond?
RP: Joe Borowski?

I can't think of any more relievers. I guess Steve Karsay is still active.
   26. DCW3 Posted: May 15, 2006 at 09:07 AM (#2020447)

C: Mike Matheny
1B: Dmitri Young
2B: Adam Kennedy
3B: Placido Polanco
SS: Edgar Renteria
LF: Reggie Sanders
CF: Coco Crisp
RF: J.D. Drew

BN: Mark Grudzielanek
BN: Eduardo Perez
BN: Jack Wilson
BN: Eli Marrero
BN: John Mabry

SP: Danny Haren
SP: Matt Morris
SP: Jamie Moyer
SP: Brett Tomko
SP: Woody Williams

RP: Mike Timlin
RP: Cliff Politte
RP: Julian Tavarez
RP: Kiko Calero
RP: Ray King
RP: Steve Kline
   27. stealfirstbase Posted: May 15, 2006 at 10:06 AM (#2020450)
PH, you're forgetting Tom Gordon for the White Sox' bullpen...the bullpen you put together is really good, though. The White Sox could also play Ray Durham over Aaron Miles at second.

That outfield we don't have is unbelievable:

Magglio Ordonez RF ~$15 million this year (already got his contract)
Aaron Rowand CF ~$3.5 million this year (Big contract coming up)
Carlos Lee LF ~$8 million this year (Big contract coming up)

Jeremy Reed CF ~peanuts
Mike Cameron CF ~7 million?
Joe Borchard RF ~peanuts

That's an astonishing amount of talent that has left the White Sox' outfield, though Cameron and Rowand became Thome and Konerko, and Reed became Garcia. Wow. You could make two entire starting outfields of guys who don't play for the Sox anymore, and who we developed. Even better, those two outfields would be pretty good. I guess we know where major league outfielders come from, don't we? Kansas City and Chicago.

Reed might not count for the purposes of this exercise since he was traded as a prospect and never actually played for the big league club, in the same way that Chris Young never played for the Sox. AND THERE'S ANOTHER ONE! We could start a third outfield with Chris Young in center field, Mike Morse in left, and...Timo Perez in right. You could also include Carl Everett, since we acquired him--twice--with prospects from the system and not as a Free Agent. That would be something.

Outfield 1: Lee, Rowand, Ordonez
Outfield 2: Borchard, Reed, Cameron
Outfield 3: Morse, Young, Everett

WS current outfield: Podsednik, Anderson, Dye

That's one outfield that's one of the best in the league (Rowand's), one that's average and can really play some defense (Reed's), and one which is better than the Orioles/Rays/Royals current outfield.
   28. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: May 15, 2006 at 11:24 AM (#2020453)
The A's have got to win this game, right? Let's see...

C: Ramon Hernandez
1B: Scott Hatteberg
2B: Ray Durham
SS: Miguel Tejada
3B: Olmedo Saenz
LF: Jose Guillen
CF: Johnny Damon
RF: Jermaine Dye
DH: Jason Giambi

C: Damian Miller
1B: Carlos Pena
OF: Eric Byrnes
IF: Mark Bellhorn
UT: Esteban German

SP Tim Hudson
SP Mark Mulder
SP Kenny Rogers
SP Cory Lidle
SP Ted Lilly

MR Aaron Harang
CL Jason Isringhausen
RP Keith Foulke
RP Arthur Rhodes
RP Chad Bradford
RP Tim Worrell

There are a bunch of other candidates for the bullpen (Harville, Vizcaino, Small, Groom)... this is all just off the top of my head, I'm sure I've missed some people.
   29. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 15, 2006 at 11:55 AM (#2020454)
These rosters will get better depending on how much a team hits the free agent market, I think.

Red Sox

C Josh Bard
1B Nomar
2B Mark Bellhorn
SS Edgar Renteria
3B Bill Mueller
LF Cliff Floyd
CF Johnny Damon
RF Jay Payton
DH Roberto Petagine

C Kelly Shoppach
1B/OF Kevin Millar
UT Freddy Sanchez
MI Orlando Cabrera
OF Dave Roberts

SP Pedro Martinez
SP Roger Clemens
SP Bronson Arroyo
SP Derek Lowe
SP Byung-Hyun Kim

RP Todd Jones
RP Brandon Lyon
RP Scott Williamson
RP Bobby Howry
RP Chad Bradford
RP Casey Fossum

Bullpen-by-committee is a bit scary, but I think that team would be in playoff contention all year.
   30. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: May 15, 2006 at 11:57 AM (#2020455)
I am pretty sure I have it covered. The Brewers didn't have any great arms to let get away so that explains the dearth of starters floating around. Cal Eldred retired so he is out of the mix.

Marquis Grissom retired or he would be in center with Scottie in left and Gary in right. But I had to make do.

Brewer Alumni:

1b: Richie Sexson/Lyle Overbay
2b: Mark Loretta/Ron Belliard (I was stunned to find out that Eric Young was still playing)
ss: Jose Valentin (Royce Clayton/Craig Counsell)
3b: Wes Helms
c: Mike Matheny (backed up by Henry Blanco)
lf: Gary Sheffield (sigh)
cf: Scott Podsednik
rf: Jeromy Burnitz

SP: Glendon Rusch
SP: Victor Santos
SP: Hideo Nomo

CL: Bob Wickman
RP: David Weathers
RP: Ray King
RP: Luis Vizcaino
RP: Ron Villone?
RP: Mike Myers?
   31. . . . . . . Posted: May 15, 2006 at 12:19 PM (#2020457)
The once-Yankees. I included upper-levle farm guys, because prospects rarely cracked the Yankee lineup for much of the last 10 years. Man, do these position players suck.

C: Dioner Navarro
1B: Nick Johnson
2B: Alfonso Soriano
SS: Jose Vizcaino??
3B: Mike Lowell
OF: David Dellucci?
OF: Matt Lawton?
OF: Rondell White?
OF: Willy Mo?
SP: Roger Clemens
SP: Andy Pettite
SP: John Lieber
SP: Jose Contreras
SP: Javier Vazquez
RP: Tom Gordon
RP: Bob Wickman
RP: Ted Lilly
RP: Brandon Claussen
RP: Orlando Hernandez

Other potential pitchers: Westbrook, Halsey, Milton. Among others.
   32. JGLB's Quarantine is a Dome of Sensual Delights Posted: May 15, 2006 at 01:38 PM (#2020479)
Using only players who had an AB or pitched an inning, here are your ExSpos alum;

C: M. Barrett
1B: B. Wilkerson
2B: M. Grudzielanek
3B: T. Batista
SS: O. Cabrera
OF: V. Guererro
OF: M. Bradley
OF: C. Floyd

BN: B. Fulmer
BN: M. Stairs
BN: M. Alou
BN: G. Blum

SP1: P. Martinez
SP2: B. Colon
SP3: M. Batista
SP4: T. Lilly
SP5: T. Ohka/ E. Loaiza

RP: B. Chen
RP: G. Mota
RP: S. Torres
RP: S. Kline
RP: D. Hermanson
RP: G. White

That doesn't look half bad at all. I'd imagine Cleveland's would look pretty damned good too.
   33. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: May 16, 2006 at 08:40 AM (#2021895)
I'm bumping this in the hopes that someone will propose a Diamond Mind simulation of these teams.

Cleveland, as far as I can figure not being an Indians fan:

C: Josh Bard / The Decaying Corpse Of Sandy Alomar Junior
1B: Richie Sexson
2B: Brandon Phillips
SS: Omar Vizquel
3B: David Bell
LF: Brian Giles
CF: Covelli Crisp
RF: Manny Ramirez
DH: Jim Thome

C: Corpse / Bard
OF: Kenny Lofton
IF: John McDonald
OF: Milton Bradley
Zombie/1B: Julio Franco
DH: Russell Branyan

SP Bartolo Colon
SP Kevin Millwood
SP Jaret Wright

CL Danys Baez
RP David "Stormy" Weathers
RP Julian Tavarez
RP Jose Mesa
RP Ricardo Rincon
   34. DCW3 Posted: May 16, 2006 at 08:59 AM (#2021896)
Scott Elarton could be the fourth Cleveland starter, but I'm at a loss to think of a fifth...
   35. DCW3 Posted: May 16, 2006 at 09:03 AM (#2021897)
And Jeff Kent would be a better option at 2B.
   36. Athletic Supporter is USDA certified lean Posted: May 16, 2006 at 10:33 AM (#2021904)
What the. I meant to put Kent there.
   37. JGLB's Quarantine is a Dome of Sensual Delights Posted: May 16, 2006 at 10:48 AM (#2021907)
Drese or Brian Anderson could fill out the end of the Cle rotation.

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