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Saturday, November 27, 2021

Super Two Status Set At 2.116 Years Of Service

This year’s Super Two cutoff point has been set at precisely two years and 116 days of service, MLBTR’s Tim Dierkes has learned. This marker will affect the financial value for players with between two and three years of service time.

For example, Yordan Alvarez, with two years and 113 days of service time, will just miss the cutoff, meaning the Astros slugger will not be eligible for arbitration until next offseason. On the other hand, Brewers infielder Luis Urias has two years and 120 days of service time, so he qualifies as a Super Two player and will head to arbitration for the first of four trips this winter.

Broadly, Super Two designation is one of the innumerable quirks to the ever-confounding (current) arbitration system.  For the unfamiliar, Major League players earn “service time” for every day spent on an MLB roster.  One year of MLB service is defined as 172 days, despite the fact that there are more days than that in the regular season.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: November 27, 2021 at 05:00 PM | 10 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: arbitration, super two

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   1. Walt Davis Posted: November 27, 2021 at 10:29 PM (#6054955)
Broadly, Super Two designation is one of the innumerable quirks to the ever-confounding (current) arbitration system.

Possibly the "(current)" was meant in regard to "might change soon in the new CBA" but the arbitration system has been the same for a long time now. And it's not at all confusing that there needs to be some mechanism to keep teams from calling up all their young players one day after the season starts and getting the "extra" year. I wouldn't consider super-2 to be confusing either but will admit the deadline definition and the way it keeps shifting such that you don't know when it is until that offseason is confusing. But of course making it simpler like fixing it at 2 years, 120 days just creates the same problem as "all but 1 day on the roster is less than a year."
   2. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 27, 2021 at 11:24 PM (#6054960)
And it's not at all confusing that there needs to be some mechanism to keep teams from calling up all their young players one day after the season starts and getting the "extra" year.


Wouldn't simply saying "one day on the roster = one year counted" do the trick?
If a team doesn't want to bring up a player, then they don't bring him up the entire year. If they really do want him there, then they might as well bring him up for the first game of the season as there is no benefit to delaying his arrival that season.
   3. McCoy Posted: November 28, 2021 at 08:35 AM (#6054967)
It’s called a compromise. The union doesn’t want players rotting in the minors and the owners don’t want to lose service time for calling someone up for a cup of coffee.
   4. SoSH U at work Posted: November 28, 2021 at 08:44 AM (#6054970)
Wouldn't simply saying "one day on the roster = one year counted" do the trick?


Not really. Players develop at different rates. If one day equals one year, then players who are ready at midseason or later will be held down to give teams the extra year of control.
   5. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 28, 2021 at 11:58 AM (#6054990)

Not really. Players develop at different rates.


Which is why arb and free agency should be dated from the date of original professional signing, with adjustments for age at drafting. Say 16-y.o. signees get 12 yrs. of team control, arb after 8. 20 y.o. signees are controlled for 8 years, arb after 5, etc. Reward the teams that develop their players better and get them to the major faster.
   6. SoSH U at work Posted: November 28, 2021 at 12:19 PM (#6054991)
Which is why arb and free agency should be dated from the date of original professional signing, with adjustments for age at drafting. Say 16-y.o. signees get 12 yrs. of team control, arb after 8. 20 y.o. signees are controlled for 8 years, arb after 5, etc. Reward the teams that develop their players better and get them to the major faster.


Under that system, it's possible Bryce Harper still hasn't reached free agency.

Because players develop at such different rates, there is no perfect system.
   7. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 28, 2021 at 02:30 PM (#6054999)
Under that system, it's possible Bryce Harper still hasn't reached free agency.

Maybe not, but if the last 5 seasons were arb, he still would have made $100M. Super stars will get paid as long as you get them to arb reasonably quickly.
   8. Walt Davis Posted: November 28, 2021 at 04:23 PM (#6055015)
But Harper wouldn't have been in arb "reasonably quickly" under your system. He was signed in late 2010, became arb-eligible at the end of the 2014 season. Under your proposal, he's not arb-eligible until 2018 or even 2019. At a minimum, any age-based or organizational service time-based system needs an "arb after Z years of team control or X years in the majors, whichever comes first" clause.

I've suggested it many times -- service time starts with addition to the 40-man. The MLBPA already covers the 40-man so you avoid issues of the union negotiating what happens to non-members. There is already an organizational service time-based rule for when a player must be added to the 40-man or be made available (along with all the other service-time rules around minor-league FA). A simple change of benefit to players would be that if a player passes unselected through rule 5 then they become a minor-league FA ... or, compromise, rule 5 applies only once to a player. You could also sensibly amend rule 5 so that the drafting team only needs to add the player to their 40-man (which starts/keeps their service time clock running).
   9. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 28, 2021 at 05:23 PM (#6055022)
But Harper wouldn't have been in arb "reasonably quickly" under your system. He was signed in late 2010, became arb-eligible at the end of the 2014 season. Under your proposal, he's not arb-eligible until 2018 or even 2019. At a minimum, any age-based or organizational service time-based system needs an "arb after Z years of team control or X years in the majors, whichever comes first" clause.

I said 8 years to arb for a 16 y.o. An 18 y.o. would be less, maybe 5-6 years.

I think you could actually make it pretty fair by age. Arb at 23-24, FA at 27-28. I think that works for virtually everybody.
   10. SoSH U at work Posted: November 28, 2021 at 05:47 PM (#6055027)
I think you could actually make it pretty fair by age. Arb at 23-24, FA at 27-28. I think that works for virtually everybody.


You can't. You can surely make some improvements, but as long as a) players develop at different rates and are ready at different points in the season, and b) arb/FA only exists in the offseason, there will be players who benefit/those who don't from whatever system you employ. It's unavoidable.

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