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Baseball Primer Newsblog — The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand Monday, September 27, 2021TB progressing with Montreal Sister City plan
RoyalsRetro (AG#1F)
Posted: September 27, 2021 at 01:17 PM | 63 comment(s)
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1. bfan Posted: September 27, 2021 at 02:12 PM (#6041939)The main problem, is you'll always be playing in sub-par facilities. You're not going to get the same stadium built for 40 games, and you would for 80.
Even the places that once played a few home games in another location (Green Bay in Milwaukee and the Celtics in Hartford) stopped doing it.
If they were playing in Orlando or Jacksonville, I could see it, but this very much looks like a team gearing up to leave.
After being in contention for most of the previous decade and a half, the Sox collapsed from 89-73 in 1967 to 67-95 on 1968. They went 1-9 in the games in Milwaukee.
The team could just pay for hotels in one of the cities. Why would they need separate bank accounts or anything else? You can withdraw money from your U.S. bank acct at a Canadian ATM, and your CCs work everywhere. The logistics aren't complicated, it's just that you're on the road 3/4 of the year.
I suggested yesterday that this model could work for regions like the deep south or upper Midwest where you play 20 games in four places for instance. I don’t see why the stadium issues wouldn’t work. They build football stadiums for 8 games.
Attendance collapse had already begun pre-pandemic and May continue so creative ways to draw fans might be required.
Yes, I am not sure this is this hard on anyone. And, to be clear, I am guessing they would split the games in large blocks. To me, ideally, it would be the first 25 games in Tampa Bay, then up to Montreal about June for the summer of their 40 games, and then back to Tampa Bay in September for 16 home games.
I haven't seen what the current stadium plans in MTL are (the Quebec-based story I saw over the weekend exaggeratedly described it as "The Return of the Montreal Expos" and seemed to imply a project near Peel Basin, not far from Centre Bell), but truth be told, I half-suspect that a move there is closer to a done deal than anyone has reason to admit, since they're still a couple years away from officially being able to talk with anybody about the team building a stadium outside the Tampa area.
The move there just seems to make too much sense not to happen. There's a ready-made rivalry with Toronto, a sports network that badly needs programming, and during rough periods, you can probably keep attendance up with vacationing Torontonians/New Yorkers/New Englanders. I wouldn't be shocked if the team still played the first few series in St. Petersberg for a while - I went to the Jays/Sox exhibition there a few years back and would not recommend being in an outdoor stadium in late March/early April - but eventually they'll just be the Expos.
What about the players' families?
I realize this is the internet, and there is a counter for everything, but goodness gracious, they just live out of an apartment furnished by the team either in Montreal or Tampa, their choice, and live out of their home the other time (or an apartment-the team will be able to arrange it).
But you know what is an even bigger, obvious point? Half the dang country, and all of Canada, is trying to get to Florida in the winter and spring, to escape the cold, and half of the south is trying to find a cool place for the summer to avoid the summer heat. This is a blessing and a feature, and not a bug.
In any event, do you know how any sales people and executives live on the road from Monday morning until Thursday afternoon. Once the pandemic subsides, so stand in a major airlines hub on a Thursday afternoon.
But what about their pets?
Then Tampa must have much better attendance in April and May than July and August. Oh yeah, that doesn't happen.
This is not going to work.
The Carolina Cougars in the ABA as well.
These kinds of arrangements don't seem to last very long. Eventually the stronger city usually prevails.
Montreal was a hot draw during the Carter-Dawson-Raines years. Tampa has never been, even with consistently competitive teams.
Which, in the case of the Kansas City-Omaha Kings, was Sacramento.
Do you really not see how much of a disruption this is for players with kids? School isn't out until June in most places, so even if you scheduled this in complete blocks, April, May, September in Tampa and June through August in Montreal (which I doubt they would do, since it's generally a bad idea to let your fanbase go three full months without seeing the team), you're probably still overlapping on both ends with some school time. And then you're asking your family to completely leave their homes and move to a separate place. Some families would be okay with this (and some already live in a separate place full-time, like many who reside in Arizona). Many wouldn't, especially if you're leaving behind extended family or a doctor that deals with a specific condition a family member has.
Baseball players want to see their families when they're home. And this makes them choose between missing their families and uprooting them for a large chunk of time. These guys are already on the road a ton; don't make it even harder to be there with their kids.
1) Would the team wear a different uniform in Montreal?
2) Would they still be called the Rays in Montreal?
Because if and when they move permanently to Montreal, they've got to be called the Expos!
The Virginia Squires played in semi-random locations that had something to do with the commonwealth of Virginia.
Remember poor Mark Buehrle who couldn't bring his dog to Toronto?
Baseball players want to see their families when they're home. And this makes them choose between missing their families and uprooting them for a large chunk of time. These guys are already on the road a ton; don't make it even harder to be there with their kids.
Most players don't live full-time in the city they play. This is a difference ion degree, not in kind. If they really want their families with them full-time they have the option to home-school/hire tutors.
So Montreal would get the revenue/excitement from the season opener, and the excitement/revenue of the playoffs (chase and games), and the Rays would get the more consistent (except in Tampa) revenue of kids-off-school summer attendance...indoors.
Having visited both cities, I'd rather live full-time in Montreal than one minute in Tampa.
The first, most important reason for the league: why would they give up the Montreal expansion possibility without actually extracting the expansion fees from a new ownership group/team? That's transparently bonkers!
Come on.
It's like a drug dealer that gives you the first hit for free.
Scott Brosius did it for most of his career.
Ha! I've seen/heard NBA expansion fee estimates of as much as $2.5 billion. Just to be able to start the team! Maybe it's less than that, maybe it's a billion, maybe less. $900 million is still $30 million per existing team. And MLB is just going to let one of the two or three LEAST POPULAR franchises occupy two markets, just for fun? With no compensation to the other owners? This does not make any sense.
Scott Brosius did it for most of his career.
He qualifies as a nobody. Point stands.
There was a story a few months back where Manfred basically said that MLB probably won't be expanding any time soon - owners are in it for the long haul, they split an absurd amount of money every year, and that even if the expansion fee was 2x$2B American divided evenly between the existing owners, they'd be coming out behind by going from a 30-way split to a 32-way split in a decade or so. If they aren't going to do it now, when the owners might be tempted by a big cash infusion after a couple of Covid-impacted seasons, they're not going to do it in a year or two when things are closer to back to normal.
I suspect that the split temporarily makes MTL more useful for threatening places like Oakland or whoever is next in terms of building a new stadium ("we've got two cities supporting half a team better than you're doing with a full schedule, only makes sense...") than it is currently. And if they do wind up moving there in full (which I suspect is the endgame that they just can't legally talk about yet), then in five years or so Tampa once again becomes the city that's a useful threat if KC won't build that new stadium or Baltimore decides theirs is too old, the way Montreal is now.
Or Tampa, specifically, in this case. That's really what is holding up expansion - new stadiums in Oakland and Tampa.
Are there any new amenities that Oriole Park is lacking? That stadium is the archetype for everything that has come later.
The only thing that has ever driven expansion is litigation, so keep an eye on the MLBPA grievance over 2020 pay.
Been a while since I visited, but probably not, although I wouldn't rule out it not being as luxury-box focused as later parks. I just threw that out there because it is one the first of the new wave and I can imagine a relocation threat from them a bit easier than the White Sox. I guess Kansas City is probably a more realistic name to throw in there as the next place the league will be trying to shake down after Oakland and Tampa.
Combine the Expos and Rays -- The Ex-Rays!
It works on so many levels.
Aside from air-conditioning, which may not actually be hypermodern (I seem to remember the Astrodome being air-conditioned as of 1965 but my memory is admittedly faulty) … the structural feature that seems to be taking hold of late is extending the moated sections, whether in renovations or in new designs. I don't know how much of a moat there is in Camden Yards now, if any, but the trend that has spread after YS2 (and I seem to remember Philly and some other parks of the 2000s, too) is to have more & more lower seats cordoned off from the unwashed masses.
The BDC Dome cordons off the entire lower deck unless you have a ticket for it. (Theoretically; it's a pretty huge area to keep under constant guard.)
Maybe that's the next new necessity in stadium design. It used to be boxes at a club level were essential (and we have those too), but now an entire tier of the stadium must be exclusive. But the lower-deck seats, for the most part, involve no luxury except a decent view of the game. They're just seats. The beer & hot dogs aren't even better; maybe a bit worse in terms of selection.
Sure, but how does that affect the Rays?
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