Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Friday, November 01, 2019

The 2014 Detroit Tigers starting rotation has now all won the World Series

The 2014 Detroit Tigers once had a starting pitching rotation of Justin Verlander, David Price, Max Scherzer, Anibal Sanchez and Rick Porcello.

Five years later, they have all won the World Series.

Karl from NY Posted: November 01, 2019 at 08:01 AM | 23 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: tigers, world series champions

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Blastin Posted: November 01, 2019 at 09:23 AM (#5897675)
And that team was swept by the Orioles
   2. SoSH U at work Posted: November 01, 2019 at 09:39 AM (#5897681)
The Diamondbacks of the last 10 years were well represented on this year's champions (Scherzer, Eaton, Hudson, Parra, Corbin and Rodney, plus Tony Sipp).
   3. DanG Posted: November 01, 2019 at 10:34 AM (#5897693)
And that team was swept by the Orioles
Under the "leadership" of rookie manager Brad Ausmus
   4. spycake Posted: November 01, 2019 at 10:41 AM (#5897700)
The Diamondbacks of the last 10 years were well represented on this year's champions (Scherzer, Eaton, Hudson, Parra, Corbin and Rodney, plus Tony Sipp).


And Greinke and Will Harris on the runners-up, plus Wade Miley.
   5. The Honorable Ardo Posted: November 01, 2019 at 10:45 AM (#5897706)
It's easy in hindsight to say the Tigers didn't try hard enough to keep that staff together. It hurt that they effectively traded Scherzer for Jordan Zimmermann.

But most pitchers don't age well; in exchange for its two youngest members (Porcello, who s***ed this season, and Price, who could only manage 107 innings), they got Michael Fulmer, Matt Boyd, and Daniel Norris.
   6. Howie Menckel Posted: November 01, 2019 at 11:27 AM (#5897730)
well, that was the rotation for the stretch run - Price made 11 starts for the Tigers after being acquired in a trade. Drew Smyly was the 5th starter with 22 starts, but he got hurt and was done for the season by early September.

other players on that team we may not associate with the 2014 Tigers so much anymore: Torii Hunter, Rajai Davis, Eugenio Suarez, Hernan Perez, Robbie Ray, Joba Chamberlain, Jim Johnson, Corey Knebel, Joakim Soria.
   7. spycake Posted: November 01, 2019 at 11:44 AM (#5897735)
well, that was the rotation for the stretch run - Price made 11 starts for the Tigers after being acquired in a trade. Drew Smyly was the 5th starter with 22 starts, but he got hurt and was done for the season by early September.


Smyly was actually traded as part of the package for Price.
   8. Bourbon Samurai stays in the fight Posted: November 01, 2019 at 12:41 PM (#5897780)
It hurt that they effectively traded Scherzer for Jordan Zimmermann.


Well, Scherzer and 100 million dollars. (still a bad deal)
   9. Howie Menckel Posted: November 01, 2019 at 01:33 PM (#5897819)
Smyly was actually traded as part of the package for Price.

good catch!

I was looking at game logs and didn't notice.
   10. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: November 01, 2019 at 02:32 PM (#5897847)
other players on that team we may not associate with the 2014 Tigers so much anymore: Torii Hunter, Rajai Davis, Eugenio Suarez, Hernan Perez, Robbie Ray, Joba Chamberlain, Jim Johnson, Corey Knebel, Joakim Soria.


Oof, how did I not remember that Suarez was a former Tiger? And that he got dealt for fat ol' Alfredo Simon?
   11. Starring RMc as Bradley Scotchman Posted: November 01, 2019 at 04:05 PM (#5897885)
they got Michael Fulmer, Matt Boyd, and Daniel Norris.

None of whom will ever pitch in a World Series...at least, not for Detroit...
   12. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 01, 2019 at 04:23 PM (#5897890)
fat ol' Alfredo Simon
I believe the proper nickname is "Fettucine" Alfredo Simon.
   13. Walt Davis Posted: November 01, 2019 at 05:42 PM (#5897930)
It was not a good sequence of trades by DD. He traded Fister for Robbie Ray (which was a perfectly OK trade at the time** and would have worked out very well). That looked like a flop after Fister had excellent results (on a dicier FIP and fading K rate) and he seems to have panicked and made the terrible trade for Simon and, in a 3-way trade, swapped Ray for Shane Greene (the Yanks made out like bandits).

** I was pretty critical at the time if I recall but I got that wrong. Fister did fine and adjusted pretty well to diminished stuff but he was clearly no longer the pitcher he'd been when DD traded him and Ray was clearly a better prospect than "we" were giving him credit for.
   14. Cooper Nielson Posted: November 02, 2019 at 02:20 AM (#5898052)
** I was pretty critical at the time if I recall but I got that wrong.

I'm wrong about a lot of stuff, but I would like to note that I was one of very few people here who didn't completely hate the Fister-Ray trade, when it happened, from the Tigers' standpoint. Ray looked like a legit prospect to me, based solely on his minor-league stats (I had never seen him pitch), but people seemed to be dismissing him because he was never "ranked."

Should've kept him, of course. But I'm OK with Price turning into Boyd and Norris.
   15. Mr Dashwood Posted: November 02, 2019 at 09:50 AM (#5898070)
Well looky here.

21. Mr Dashwood [or fra paolo as I then posted] Posted: December 02, 2013 at 10:19 PM (#4609185)
From the Tigers' perspective, Lombardozzi replaces one of Don Kelly (not very likely), Hernan Perez and Danny Worth. So the bench gets a bit stronger.

Krol allows Smyly to move into the rotation.

Ray could be a useful #3/#4 starter, very soon.

Doug Fister is 29, so on the wrong side of the aging spectrum, and is likely to cost somewhere around $7 million in 2014, money that could be spent on a Proven Closer that the Tigers are supposed to have missed this last season, although they didn't, really.

Meanwhile, they keep Porcello, who might be a bit better if Iglesias continues to flash the leather, and Miggy's replacement at 3b (increasingly looking like Castellanos) reduces the negative UZR by about ten runs (one win) to -10.

The deal leaves the Tigers still a contender, while potentially keeping their window open a bit longer, especially if 21-year-old Ray can keep developing.

And I went on to say
28. Mr Dashwood Posted: December 02, 2013 at 10:56 PM (#4609208)

...I don't like the deal from the Tigers' perspective, but I don't see it as highway robbery. It really depends on whether by weakening the rotation, the team as a whole gets stronger.

I do think Rizzo's made a good deal, though. Lombardozzi was clearly a spare part, Krol is replaceable and Ray probably does little right now to help the Nationals. They might regret giving Ray up later, but not at all if Fister helps them into the playoffs again.


Both the Nationals and the Tigers topped their divisions, and both lost in the first round of the playoffs.

Lombardozzi went to Baltimore in a spring training trade and became Sea Bass Gonzalez, who was released less than a month later. (That trade seems somewhat bizarre on the face of it. I can't be bothered to research it.)

Krol was a basically ineffective LOOGY and would bring Cameron Maybin back to the Tigers in a 2015/16 offseason trade. Maybin became Victor Alcantara in a 2016/17 offseason trade. Alcantara became a free agent on 25 October past.

Ray was turned into Shane Greene, as has been noted, and Greene has now become Travis Demeritte and Joey Wentz.

So, at the moment, the Tigers ultimately dealt Doug Fister for Travis Demeritte and Joey Wentz.
   16. Mr Dashwood Posted: November 02, 2019 at 10:02 AM (#5898073)
Setting aside the fact that I did a good analysis, that is an interesting old thread in looking at what one might call BBTF 'discourse'.

There is so much certainty. Everybody 'knows' it was a good/bad deal. Gut responses prevail. There is little contextualisation. There is deep suspicion of 'authority' if one wants to dispute its conclusions, and great reliance on 'authority' if one agrees with it.
   17. PreservedFish Posted: November 02, 2019 at 10:12 AM (#5898075)
I thought it was one of the dumbest trades ever for the Tigers.

Armchair GM'ing is a humbling pursuit.

But at least I was aware of the limits of my own knowledge:

I would like to see the history of deals which our community thought were ridiculously one-sided. My feeling is that the idiot side usually comes out better than we expected.
   18. Walt Davis Posted: November 04, 2019 at 03:21 PM (#5898555)
#17 -- Mabry-Giambi is the all-time classic. Luck has no respect for intelligence. :-)

Long ago now but there was a lot of debate about Choi for Derrek Lee with folks on both sides (I got that one right).

Trades for prospects always carry a ton of uncertainty of course. Even in retrospect it's not entirely clear how to evaluate them. Just because some kid in A-ball turned into a good player 5 years later doesn't mean it was a good trade for the team that got the prospect (it just worked out well) ... or that trading the #2 prospect for 2 months of a reliever isn't a good trade when the #2 guy doesn't pan out because the #2 prospect should have had more market value at the time than that.

Further, it's not clear what metric to use. The Cubs could trade the last two years of Bryant and probably give up something like 9 WAR. They could get back 3 prospects that combine for 12 WAR spread out over 6 years starting 2 years from now. 12 WAR to 9 WAR, Cubs win; 2 impactful years vs. 2 years of nothing and 6 years of meh, Cubs lose.

And one year after the Fister-Ray trade, the opinion was even more adamant that the Nats had won that trade by 10 miles. I hadn't changed my tune by then but I was pointing out that Fister had missed a few weeks, had a much less shiny FIP and a substantial drop in K-rate and that maybe DD had seen that coming and traded high on him. I think we were pretty unanimous that the Simon trade was a DD mistake. I think our "consensus" on the 3-way trade didn't work out so well for us though -- I don't think any of us were too high on Didi, I recall a number of folks here liked Greene, "everybody" still seemed down on Ray.

There is so much certainty. Everybody 'knows' it was a good/bad deal. Gut responses prevail. There is little contextualisation. There is deep suspicion of 'authority' if one wants to dispute its conclusions, and great reliance on 'authority' if one agrees with it.

You'd think it was the internet or something. :-)
   19. Walt Davis Posted: November 04, 2019 at 03:24 PM (#5898556)
Wow, that thread was 309 posts ... and seems not a single one of them was me. That was a rare display of wisdom.
   20. Joey B. Posted: November 04, 2019 at 03:29 PM (#5898559)
The Diamondbacks of the last 10 years were well represented on this year's champions (Scherzer, Eaton, Hudson, Parra, Corbin and Rodney, plus Tony Sipp).

Mike Rizzo loves him some former Arizona Diamondbacks!
   21. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: November 04, 2019 at 05:11 PM (#5898575)
The 2014 Detroit Tigers once had a starting pitching rotation of Justin Verlander, David Price, Max Scherzer, Anibal Sanchez and Rick Porcello.

Unfortunately they also had a bullpen of Joe Nathan, Joba Chamberlain, Phil Coke, Al Alburquerque and Ian Krol.
   22. Mr Dashwood Posted: November 04, 2019 at 06:34 PM (#5898600)
Here is the thread covering the Gregorius-Greene-Ray blockbuster. It is worth a quick scan, just to see who shows up well. I am not there, so I won't quote from it.

In looking for it I came across this prophetic thread. Several interesting comments are made. (I am not there, again. It was a sad time in my family.)
   23. PreservedFish Posted: November 04, 2019 at 07:02 PM (#5898606)
62. Ray (CTL) Posted: December 06, 2014 at 06:49 PM (#4855763)
Is there a world in which Gregorius doesn't suck?

64. PreservedFish Posted: December 06, 2014 at 07:12 PM (#4855776)
Gregorius could certainly suck but I'd be happy if my team got him. Solid defender, young, athletic. He might turn into something.


Woohoo! I win.

But I actually spent most of the thread amusing myself with Pynchonian prospect names. I mean, Smailey Borges? Sequoyah Stonecipher? Does it get any better than that?

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Harry Balsagne
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT - NBA Bubble Thread
(2759 - 2:44am, Sep 21)
Last: Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim

NewsblogWhy losing Justin Verlander marks beginning of the end of Astros' sad legacy
(16 - 2:21am, Sep 21)
Last: BrianBrianson

NewsblogExpanded playoffs beyond 2020? Inside the MLB push — and the pushback
(25 - 11:31pm, Sep 20)
Last: SoSH U at work

NewsblogTheo Epstein would be perfect for Steve Cohen’s Mets
(1 - 11:24pm, Sep 20)
Last: Russlan thinks deGrom is da bomb

NewsblogOT - Soccer Thread - Brave New World
(118 - 11:23pm, Sep 20)
Last: AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale

NewsblogWeekend OMNICHATTER for September 19-20, 2020
(42 - 10:57pm, Sep 20)
Last: Howie Menckel

NewsblogPro Football Hall of Fame surprises Joe Buck at halftime with prestigious Rozelle Award
(21 - 8:05pm, Sep 20)
Last: TJ

NewsblogEmpty Stadium Sports Will Be Really Weird
(9675 - 7:19pm, Sep 20)
Last: AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale

NewsblogWhite Sox Promote Garrett Crochet
(10 - 7:04pm, Sep 20)
Last: flournoy

NewsblogClint Frazier’s Patience Pays Off For the Yankees
(11 - 6:37pm, Sep 20)
Last: sunday silence (again)

Hall of Merit2021 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(350 - 5:57pm, Sep 20)
Last: Bleed the Freak

NewsblogRoger Angell Turns One Hundred
(11 - 5:52pm, Sep 20)
Last: Mefisto

Sox TherapyThe Imperfect Schedule - Games 152-162
(7 - 1:43pm, Sep 20)
Last: Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert

NewsblogOT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (September 2020)
(22 - 12:56pm, Sep 20)
Last: Ben Broussard Ramjet

NewsblogIs 2020 finally the year for a DH to win MVP?
(30 - 12:42am, Sep 20)
Last: Ron J

Page rendered in 0.3872 seconds
48 querie(s) executed