Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Friday, September 29, 2023

The Athletic: How did Angels squander Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani? It starts with the owner’s frugality

At a time when other large-market teams had already moved aggressively to aid technological training and evaluation aids to their organization, the Angels were lagging behind. In 2019, the team brought in advanced pitching and hitting equipment such as Edgertronic cameras, Rapsodo machines and K-Vests, multiple former coaches said.

“Before 2019, we didn’t have anything at all,” said a longtime former coach in the Angels system. “No technology. Bullpens were thrown without any technology. … We were very outdated as an organization. We were years behind other organizations.”

Roughly half of MLB’s 30 teams have established dedicated pitching or hitting labs, according to published reports, and these kinds of advanced facilities are even spreading throughout the collegiate level. One of the better pitching labs in the country is at Wake Forest University. It cost the school about $12 million to create, and allows players and staff alike to hone in on granular areas for improvement — be it a release point, a grip on a certain pitch, or many other details that might lead to improvement…

The Angels have neither hitting nor pitching labs….

The Angels’ international scouting group is composed of 20 people total. Having a small department could contribute to good players slipping by, a former Angels employee said. The Yankees, for example, have 42 people in their international scouting department, per their media guide. The Giants have 35. These numbers can vary across teams, but 20 is on the low end.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 29, 2023 at 10:57 AM | 8 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: angels, arte moreno

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. The Duke Posted: September 29, 2023 at 02:14 PM (#6142749)
FG had some projections on Trout which seemed super low and low on Trout. I'd be willing to absorb some financial risk on him if you thought the back issue was not going to impede him.
   2. Walt Davis Posted: September 29, 2023 at 03:41 PM (#6142754)
The projections are around 3000 PAs, 15 WAR over the next 7 years (ages 32-38). Certainly low for Trout. Some others of recent vintage (note most of these include 2020 so feel free to increase them a bit):

McCutchen 2100 PA 6 WAR (only ages 32-36)
Votto 3750 PA 21 WAR
Miggy 3200 PA 9 WAR
Pujols 4250 PA 13 WAR
Beltre 4100 PA 40 WAR
Beltran 3400 PA 16 WAR
Ortiz 3900 PA 19 WAR (156 Rbat)

So somewhere around Beltran/Ortiz which, for a normal human, would be pretty optimistic. If Ohtani's not back, I'd put him at DH (maybe a bit of LF if he's up for it) and hope for the best.
   3. The Duke Posted: September 29, 2023 at 05:08 PM (#6142763)
In his 20s he dies circa 75 WAR and he's banked about 10 in his 30s. 15 more WAR seems low to me for a talent like this. I'd be willing to bet the over on that.

The Arenado deal was far less hard to navigate then Trout will be but I bet someone gets there IF the Angels and Trout want to consummate a deal .
   4. Jesse Barfield's Right Arm Posted: September 29, 2023 at 05:44 PM (#6142771)
It doesn't seem that crazy that the Angels do not have hitting or pitching labs. Wake Forest may have one, but as TFE states, half of major league baseball doesn't.
   5. Walt Davis Posted: September 30, 2023 at 04:25 PM (#6142876)
#3 sure. But, give or take, the same was true of Pujols and Miggy and Griffey (at least as batters). I agree that ZiPS seems to "believe" that 2023 Trout is what we will see and he's never going to bounce back to a 150+ OPS+ when healthy. It is being peessimistic in that neither the bat nor the health bounces back. (Of course ZiPS no longer cares what he did from 20-25, that's all irrelevant to his age 32 projection.) But, sad as it is, Trout hasn't stolen bases in years, the defense in CF has been average-ish for years. He's a fragile bat -- still one that can play decent defense, he's not David Ortiz or late Miggy yet, but still just a bat at this point.

Could a deal be worked out? Sure. But it stands at 7/$260 and the Angels would need to eat $60-100 M just to get interest.
   6. My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo Posted: September 30, 2023 at 11:27 PM (#6142923)
frugality is not the problem, they splurge on FAs regularly and are a solid top 10 payroll team. More like spending in the wrong places.
   7. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: October 01, 2023 at 06:43 PM (#6143050)
It’s worth acknowledging that the Angels didn’t really squander “Trout and Ohtani”. They squandered “Trout, then Ohtani”. They really only had one season - 2022 - where both guys were (relatively) healthy and at the peak of their talents such that you talk about squandering them.

Someone else can do the math but outside of 2022 (14.2 bWAR) I would be surprised if they ever combined for more than 12 WAR in a season. Which is great but still leaves a lot of team to build around them.
   8. John Northey Posted: October 01, 2023 at 07:28 PM (#6143053)
The way this reads the Angels are pinching pennies while wasting dollars (Penny wise, pound foolish). Oooh look, there is a shiny new free agent, lets blow $100 mil. You need money to feed our minor leaguers? Screw that.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.



<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF


Thanks to
Marc Sully's not booin'. He's Youkin'.
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT Soccer - World Cup Final/European Leagues Start
(305 - 10:31pm, Dec 05)
Last: AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale

NewsblogHot Stove Omnichatter
(78 - 10:17pm, Dec 05)
Last: Howie Menckel

Hall of Merit2024 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(173 - 9:46pm, Dec 05)
Last: Chris Cobb

NewsblogWho is on the 2024 Baseball Hall of Fame ballot and what’s the induction process?
(364 - 9:19pm, Dec 05)
Last: kcgard2

NewsblogMookie Betts will be 'every-day second baseman' for Dodgers
(27 - 8:31pm, Dec 05)
Last: Howie Menckel

NewsblogAngels narrowly avoided the luxury tax
(10 - 8:20pm, Dec 05)
Last: Cris E

NewsblogForbes: For MLB, Las Vegas, And Oakland, The A’s Name And Brand Should Stay Put
(43 - 8:17pm, Dec 05)
Last: Cris E

NewsblogThese prospects could be taken in the Rule 5 Draft
(2 - 4:55pm, Dec 05)
Last: Zonk Doesn't Get What You See in the Gameshow Host

NewsblogOT - NBA Redux Thread for the End of 2023
(145 - 4:51pm, Dec 05)
Last: kcgard2

NewsblogBraves acquire Jarred Kelenic, Marco Gonzales, Evan White from Mariners
(15 - 3:36pm, Dec 05)
Last: bookbook

NewsblogOrioles holding out for development rights as lease deadline nears
(3 - 12:45pm, Dec 05)
Last: birdlives is one crazy ninja

NewsblogOT - 2023 NFL thread
(82 - 12:01pm, Dec 05)
Last: It's regretful that PASTE was able to get out

NewsblogSources: Wade Miley back with Brewers on 1-year, $8.5M deal
(5 - 10:48am, Dec 05)
Last: RoyalsRetro (AG#1F)

NewsblogOT - November* 2023 College Football thread
(320 - 12:47am, Dec 05)
Last: AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale

NewsblogOT - College Football Bowl Spectacular (December 2023 - January 2024)
(7 - 8:43pm, Dec 04)
Last: Howie Menckel

Page rendered in 0.2004 seconds
48 querie(s) executed