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Friday, November 01, 2019

The Nationals won their first title. Who’s next?

When I was a kid there were two immutable truths about baseball: the Boston Red Sox were cursed and the Chicago Cubs were losers, however lovable they might be.

Four World Series titles in the bag make that Red Sox curse seem rather quaint. The Cubs’ 2016 title — and four or five straight years with them considered rich and powerful contenders — put that lovable loser thing to rest. Time marches on and the stuff you believed about the world when you were a kid becomes inoperative as you grow older.

Young baseball fans today carry with them a different set of assumptions about who are baseball’s haves and who are baseball’s have-nots. To them the Sox and Cubs are and always have been alpha teams. Those powerful Braves and Indians teams from the 90s are only vague memories. The Dodgers have replaced the Braves as that great regular season club that can’t seem to get over the hump. And, of course, there are a handful of losers, some lovable, some not-so-lovable, that seem destined to never win it all.

Last night’s win took the Nationals out of that category. Their October surge — complete with five wins in elimination games in which they trailed at some point — forever vanquished the narrative about how they had never won a postseason series and kicked the memory of those 90-100-loss Nats teams from the first several years of their existence into a deep, deep hole.

A consideration of the chances that the six teams that have never won the World Series have of getting out of that club.

QLE Posted: November 01, 2019 at 12:41 AM | 16 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: brewers, mariners, padres, rangers, rays, rockies, world series

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   1. ajnrules Posted: November 01, 2019 at 01:54 PM (#5897829)
Here's all the franchises ranked by the seasons it took for them to win their first title. The original 16 teams are dated to 1903, the year of the first World Series

Red Sox             1    1903 1903
Giants              3    1903 1905
Diamondbacks        4    1998 2001
White Sox           4    1903 1906
Cubs                5    1903 1907
Marlins             5    1903 1997
Pirates             7    1903 1909
Athletics           8    1903 1910
Mets                8    1962 1969
Braves             12    1903 1914
Blue Jays          16    1977 1992
Reds               17    1903 1919
Royals             17    1969 1985
Indians            18    1903 1920
Yankees            21    1903 1923
Twins
/Senators     22    1903 1924
Rays              
>22    1998
Cardinals          24    1903 1926
Rockies           
>27    1993
Tigers             33    1903 1935
Angels             42    1961 2002
Mariners          
>43    1977
Nationals
/Expos    51    1969 2019
Brewers
/Pilots    >51    1969
Padres            
>51    1969
Dodgers            53    1903 1955
Astros             56    1962 2017
Rangers
/Senators  >59   1961
Orioles
/Browns     64    1903 1966
Phillies           78    1903 1980 

I can see the Rangers surpassing the Phillies.
   2. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 01, 2019 at 02:01 PM (#5897834)
I can see the Rangers surpassing the Phillies.
Won’t they run off 2 or 3 in a row now that they have air conditioning?
   3. rr: calming the thread down with my arms Posted: November 01, 2019 at 04:55 PM (#5897906)
Cleveland is now the only original 16 same-city franchise in a notably long title drought--71 years. Some MSM types have tended to forget that the White Sox broke an 88-year drought in 2005, since focus there is always on the Red Sox and the Cubs. The Giants broke a 56-year drought in 2010. Other original 16-still-same-franchise-name/no-ring year numbers since last title:

Pirates 40
Reds 29
Dodgers 31
Braves 24

Tigers 35
A's 30

What we have now as we can see is expansion franchises which have never won the Series and are in their 40s and 50s: Texas, Seattle, San Diego and Milwaukee. Probably one or more of those original 16 above will hit a pretty serious title drought number over the next 3-4 decades. My team, the Reds, would seem to be a likely candidate.






   4. Bote Man Posted: November 01, 2019 at 05:56 PM (#5897937)
Nationals/Expos 51 1969 2019

The trope that just won't die. As if fans in D.C. give a rat's a$$ about some other city's team.
   5. eric Posted: November 01, 2019 at 06:12 PM (#5897943)
Yes, DC baseball is Senators and Nationals. And that's coming from someone who was born after the Senators left the second time, and grew up while the Expos were a team, well into my adulthood.

Where does Walter Johnson have a statue? Nationals Park. I have extended family in the twin cities who are rabid baseball fans and they don't ever associate the Twins with the old-time Senators. They know it in a trivia sense, but it's not the slightest bit considered a part of the team's legacy.
   6. vortex of dissipation Posted: November 01, 2019 at 06:20 PM (#5897946)
I think a lot of it has to do with whether the team kept the nickname when it moved. There's still a tangible connection between the Los Angeles and Brooklyn Dodgers, and San Francisco and New York Giants, and to a lesser (but still there) extent with the Oakland and Philadelphia Athletics. But not anywhere as much with the Senators/Twins or Orioles/Browns, for instance.
   7. Mr Dashwood Posted: November 01, 2019 at 07:03 PM (#5897956)
I have come to utterly despise the 'franchise' concept in North American sports. The Athletics, Twins, Braves &c all discarded their previous claims to titles and, to my mind, retired numbers.

OTOH, I don't think the Washington American League club's title in 1924 is any part of the Nationals' heritage either.
   8. Dr. Vaux Posted: November 01, 2019 at 07:22 PM (#5897958)
When a business changes its location, but still has the same ownership and the same assets, how is it now a different business?

It's also the case that what matters most to people who live in a place is the history of what has gone on in that place.

It's almost like history is complicated and interesting.
   9. Bote Man Posted: November 01, 2019 at 07:25 PM (#5897959)
London is a city in Italy.
   10. SoSH U at work Posted: November 01, 2019 at 07:35 PM (#5897963)
I have come to utterly despise the 'franchise' concept in North American sports. The Athletics, Twins, Braves &c all discarded their previous claims to titles and, to my mind, retired numbers.


I don't know why the Braves retired Eddie Mathews' number. He spent one season there and he was barely above average.
   11. Mr Dashwood Posted: November 01, 2019 at 08:22 PM (#5897972)
It's almost like history is complicated and interesting.

You know nothing of my work.
   12. Sweatpants Posted: November 01, 2019 at 09:20 PM (#5897977)
The trope that just won't die. As if fans in D.C. give a rat's a$$ about some other city's team.
As if anyone else gave the same rat's ass about D.C. fans' opinion on the matter.
   13. Bote Man Posted: November 01, 2019 at 10:24 PM (#5897988)
D.C. team.

D.C. fans.

I'm not sure what else matters on the subject of a D.C. team winning the WORLD SERIES!

CC: Minnesota Twins and Texas Rangers
   14. OsunaSakata Posted: November 01, 2019 at 11:21 PM (#5897997)
The pennants for the 1924, 1925, and 1933 Senators fly over Nationals Park, not Target Field. If you visit, the flags are over the huge scoreboard screen.
   15. SoSH U at work Posted: November 02, 2019 at 12:09 AM (#5898019)

The pennants for the 1924, 1925, and 1933 Senators fly over Nationals Park, not Target Field. If you visit, the flags are over the huge scoreboard screen.



And the Los Angeles Dodgers fly a 1955 World Series banner. They don't fly one at Willets Point (much to Fred's chagrin).

   16. vortex of dissipation Posted: November 02, 2019 at 01:17 AM (#5898047)
SunTrust Park flies all of the Braves' pennants, back to the 1872 National Association flag.

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