Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Tuesday, June 07, 2022

The next MLB manager on the hot seat — and the ones getting warmer — after Joe Girardi firing

The hottest seat
1. Joe Maddon, Angels. Through May 24, the Angels were 27-17 and Fangraphs gave them a 77 percent chance of making the playoffs. The 12-game losing streak they took into Tuesday night’s game against the Red Sox dropped L.A. to a 30.3.

The Angels are the AL version of the Phillies. They also have a franchise record payroll in 2022 and a long postseason drought (Philadelphia has the second longest in MLB, L.A. is tied for third longest). Like the Phillies when hiring Girardi, they also bypassed Showalter. Billy Eppler favored Showalter after the 2019 campaign. But by then he was a lame-duck GM with the Angels and owner Arte Moreno wanted Maddon. Imagine how different history would be if …

Now, how badly does Moreno want to protect Maddon? The sides didn’t even negotiate an extension last offseason. Eppler’s successor, Perry Minasian, hired Ray Montgomery as Maddon’s bench coach and — many in the industry believe — Maddon’s heir.

In the best of times, Maddon’s laidback style plays as calming. In the worst of times, it plays as checked out. Do Minasian, who didn’t hire Maddon, and — more importantly — Moreno believe Maddon’s style will resuscitate the talented Angels? Or like the Phillies, do the Angels decide there is too much invested in this season not to try to defibrillate with a new voice and go with the bench coach, like the Phils did with Rob Thomson replacing Girardi? It really just seems a question of when — during this season or after.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 07, 2022 at 02:28 PM | 22 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: davey martinez, don mattingly, joe maddon, mike matheny

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. DL from MN Posted: June 07, 2022 at 04:10 PM (#6080429)
LaRussa should be on the hot seat
   2. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 07, 2022 at 04:13 PM (#6080430)
BREAKING NEWS: JOE MADDON OUT; Phil Nevin named interim manager, per MLB Network.
   3. Walt Davis Posted: June 07, 2022 at 04:49 PM (#6080448)
There's not much reason to think anything would be radically different for the Angels if they had gone with Showalter. Showalter may (or may not) be a better manager than Maddon but the main issue in LA has been talent development and acquisition. Maybe Showalter would have been better for Adell (pretty lost) and Marsh (standard struggling for now) but Maddon has done fine by Walsh and has been creative with Ohtani. Neither Maddon nor Showalter was going to turn the pig's ear pitching staff into a silk purse the last three easons. Anyway, under Maddon, the Angels have been 10 (in just 60), 18 and now 8.5 (in just 56) games behind -- so (a) yeah, it definitely ain't working but (b) I don't think any manager was gonna make that big of a difference.
   4. Yonder Alonso in misguided trousers (cardinal) Posted: June 07, 2022 at 04:57 PM (#6080451)
The Angels are the AL version of the Phillies.

Now that Maddon's out, clearly the answer is Girardi to the Angels, and Maddon to the Phillies.
   5. The Duke Posted: June 07, 2022 at 05:08 PM (#6080457)
That list of managers - almost all of them should be fired: Lovullo, Matheny, Martinez, Mattingly, Bell. All of them are lousy from what I've seen of them. The other guys listed should have more rope.
   6. Hank Gillette Posted: June 07, 2022 at 05:24 PM (#6080462)
The Post changed the headline to say Maddon instead of Girardi.
   7. John Northey Posted: June 07, 2022 at 06:33 PM (#6080487)
Angels should look at firing the GM. Lets be real here - the top line talent is there but the supporting cast isn't. When your everyday shortstop is a 43 OPS+ lifetime guy who you got off waivers last winter you aren't going to win. When the farm is ranked 28th out of 30 in MLB you aren't going to win. No playoff appearances since 2014, 7th straight year of sub 500 ball right now. 2015 is the last time they finished a season within 10 games of first. I just checked and their current GM inherited Maddon when he took over between 2020 and 2021. So I can see giving him more rope, but not a lot more. If I ran a ML team I'd be talking with the Angels about a deal right now as I see the GM as being on thin ice and needing to make a splash of some kind.

It is quite sad to see a team with the money and stars be so unable to add whatever they need to win. Reminds me of the Jays of the early 00's with Carlos Delgado, Roy Halladay, and Vernon Wells (among others) but unable to win 90 in a season, then letting Delgado leave as a free agent (7.6 WAR after leaving), Wells they dumped (-0.2 WAR post leaving), Halladay they traded (perfect game, playoff no-hitter, Cy Young award, 2nd in Cy voting, all in his first 2 years away then injuries and done). Part of me wonders when the Angels will decide to try to dump Trout and Ohtani - hopefully not but one can't help but wonder. I prefer stars to stay with teams as that is better for baseball imo. I hated having George Brett beat my Jays but couldn't imagine him ever playing for anyone but KC back in the 80's. Same for Ripken with the O's for example. I hated seeing Pujols as an Angel, among others moving.
   8. Walt Davis Posted: June 07, 2022 at 11:25 PM (#6080560)
I gave myself the manager quiz the other day ... I think I only named about 20 with another one or two I should have gotten. I didn't know Matheny was in KC, can't even remember now who's in Det, probably woulda forgot the Cards' guy (again!) if the Cubs weren't playing them at the time.
   9. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 07, 2022 at 11:47 PM (#6080565)
I think Matheny is getting canned too. The team looks listless, the fans are restless. They're bad, but they have young talent and they're wasting them. They have a new owner so let's see if he has the balls to overrule Dayton Moore.
   10. The Honorable Ardo Posted: June 08, 2022 at 12:40 AM (#6080570)
Matheny, Mattingly, Martinez, Bell, and Servais are all actively hurting their teams, but I think only the first two are in imminent danger. The Reds are tanking, Martinez won a World Series, and Servais had the surprise 90 wins last year; those three will likely linger until September.
   11. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 08, 2022 at 12:50 AM (#6080573)
The Nats roster is awful - they have Maikel Franco and Alcides Escobar starting. Its amazing Martinez has won 21 games.
   12. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 08, 2022 at 01:17 AM (#6080577)
Stephen Strasburg returns to start Thursday’s game for the Nationals. Keep hope alive.
   13. The Duke Posted: June 08, 2022 at 01:19 AM (#6080578)
I don't think the Reds are tanking. They are something like 16-14 over their last 30. They are creeping back to respectability and have a better shot at .500 than losing a 100 games which looked inevitable.

They don't have a bad team at all.
   14. Dillon Gee Escape Plan Posted: June 08, 2022 at 09:51 AM (#6080602)
I don't think the Reds are tanking. They are something like 16-14 over their last 30. They are creeping back to respectability and have a better shot at .500 than losing a 100 games which looked inevitable.

They don't have a bad team at all.

Even Votto's looked more like the Votto of old since coming off the IL. .298/.420/.719 with 7 doubles, 1 triple and 5 HR in 69 PA. He's brought his OPS up from .413 to .729.
   15. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 08, 2022 at 11:06 AM (#6080615)
The Reds gave Wade Miley away and are playing young guys and scrubs, I don't know that they're tanking, but they weren't trying to compete either. But you're right, the team is not awful, especially if some of the youngsters improve this year. I'm really surprised how non-awful the Pirates are. Derek Shelton is manager of the year.
   16. Nasty Nate Posted: June 08, 2022 at 11:11 AM (#6080617)
I don't think the Reds are tanking. They are something like 16-14 over their last 30. They are creeping back to respectability and have a better shot at .500 than losing a 100 games which looked inevitable.

They don't have a bad team at all.
The Reds are terrible and won't be near .500 at season's end. Are you the same person who kept claiming that the Diamondbacks weren't a bad team last year?
   17. Moses Taylor loves a good maim Posted: June 08, 2022 at 11:17 AM (#6080622)
LaRussa should be on the hot seat

He's not getting attention nationally, but locally there are some very vocally loud people calling for his head. But realistically, he's not in danger as long as Jerry is alive.
   18. Walt Davis Posted: June 08, 2022 at 05:21 PM (#6080676)
Yes, the Reds have been 500 the last month and even against some good teams. It's called a good stretch. Of course they weren't gonna challenge the Spiders but all this good baseball has brought their overall WP up to 364.

current and career OPS+s

Almora 101 82
Drury 121 87
Reynolds 101 75 (already waived once this year)
Farmer 105 84

Those guys are 28, 29, 31 and 31 so no reason to believe they've found some new level of production. Votto (in terms of overall) and Aquino are the only guys we might expect to hit better than they are (Aquino could hardly be worse). The bench is abysmal so even with those over-performances, the team OPS+ is 84 and there's no reason to expect a substantial improvement.

The pitching staff also looks poor. Mahle's a better pitcher than that, Greene should improve some with experience but Castillo is pretty likely to get traded. Greene's only 22, threw just 106 innings last year, none officially in 2020 although I assume he was at their facility and he missed all of 2019 ... Will the Reds shut him down come Aug/Sept? Only two relievers are having a good season. Jeff Hoffman might be the latest struggling starter to find success in the pen; Alexis Diaz is yet another guy who K'd 13/9 in the minors. With 28 and 25 IP respectively at 1/3 of the season, the Reds are leaning a bit too heavily on those guys.

All told there are only 5-6 guys you'd want on your roster if you were a competing team. That's probably more than the Cubs and Pirates so I won't be surprised if the Reds pass those two ... but the 23-33 Cubs are actually carrying a 102 OPS+ and a 98 ERA+. Both the Reds and Cubs are about league average in scoring but that's largely park factor in the Reds case while the Cubs offensive numbers and solid run differential are still heavily affected by 21-0, 9-0 and 7-0 wins over the Pirates. Both, along with the Pirates, are among the worst in runs allowed.

Cubs v Reds 2-2
Cubs v Pitt 4-5
Reds v Pitt 4-3

Naturally, the Pirates are 5-1 against the Dodgers but 0-6 against the Brewers. The Reds are 0-4 against the Dodgers and 0-6 vs the Padres. The best the Cubs can claim is 5-5 against the Brewers but they haven't been crushed by anybody yet (0-3 against Dodgers). Three pretty equally crappy teams and the fate of each largely boils down to whose AAAA players continue to surprise and who trades away the most productive players.
   19. Walt Davis Posted: June 08, 2022 at 05:25 PM (#6080677)
Wow ... ALE 49-25 vs ALW
   20. The Duke Posted: June 08, 2022 at 11:56 PM (#6080790)
The reds suffer from depth issues. They simply can't replace players with anyone any good if they get hurt. I still think they could be a .500 team but they are likely to sell off the players that would get them there.

I thought the D-backs had a good team last year. Still do. They were beset by underperformance and injury. Plus they played in a division with three 100 wins teams (on average ). This years performance with largely the same team is more representative of where I thought they were.

BTW, the Reds have been proven right on Miley. He was hurt, they knew it, and they let him go instead of being 10% of their payroll. The cubs also made a good move picking him up. They have more money to spend and he still might given them half a season
   21. Howie Menckel Posted: June 09, 2022 at 12:55 AM (#6080802)
Miley will pitch Friday night for Cubs.

Reds have ROY 2B India on the shelf and three hot prospects at MI. Farmer and Drury would be decent backups all over.

but I agree that they trade Castillo, and the bullpen is a dumpster fire. so I wouldn't get too excited.
   22. Nasty Nate Posted: June 09, 2022 at 10:11 AM (#6080827)
I thought the D-backs had a good team last year. Still do. They were beset by underperformance and injury. Plus they played in a division with three 100 wins teams (on average ). This years performace with largely the same team is more representative of where I thought they were.
Ha ha. They were 52-110! There were two, not three, 100-win teams in their division - and they were 100-win teams because they got to feast on the terrible Diamondbacks! This year's performance is on pace for 74-88, which is obviously also not a good team.

I don't want to be gratuitously mean-spirited, but they had the most losses in the NL in like 60 years so if you think they were a good team, you might want to see a doctor.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.



<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF


Thanks to
Harry Balsagne
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogThe AL MVP race is closer than you think
(26 - 11:45pm, Aug 15)
Last: sunday silence (again)

NewsblogTwitter: Andres Gimenez makes a great, heads-up play
(3 - 11:06pm, Aug 15)
Last: My name is Votto, and I love to get Moppo

NewsblogRangers fire manager Chris Woodward in midst of fourth straight losing season
(17 - 11:05pm, Aug 15)
Last: Jaack

NewsblogOMNICHATTER for the week of August 15-22, 2022
(15 - 10:46pm, Aug 15)
Last: The Duke

NewsblogFernando Tatis Jr. offers ridiculous lie as excuse for cheating
(16 - 10:18pm, Aug 15)
Last: Dillon Gee Escape Plan

NewsblogMajor League Baseball's postseason schedule could feature latest calendar date in World Series history
(14 - 9:42pm, Aug 15)
Last: Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful

NewsblogOT Soccer Thread - European Leages Return
(39 - 8:29pm, Aug 15)
Last: AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale

Newsblog2022 NBA Playoffs thread
(4163 - 7:41pm, Aug 15)
Last: 57i66135 is a hard word for me.

NewsblogForecasting The 2022-23 Qualifying Offers: Position Players - MLB Trade Rumors
(12 - 6:31pm, Aug 15)
Last: the Hugh Jorgan returns

NewsblogTwitter: Wynton Bernard makes the major leagues [video]
(5 - 4:45pm, Aug 15)
Last: ReggieThomasLives

Sox TherapyPredictions of Ridiculousness
(73 - 4:12pm, Aug 15)
Last: Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful

NewsblogHochman: Ozzie Smith, '82 Cardinals celebrate 40 years since World Series title | Benjamin Hochman |
(6 - 3:40pm, Aug 15)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogJourneyman Wynton Bernard keys Colorado Rockies win after 10 seasons in minors
(3 - 3:29pm, Aug 15)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogGM Mike Elias: Orioles Will “Significantly Escalate The Payroll” During Offseason
(13 - 3:25pm, Aug 15)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogYankees in desperate need of jolt as feeble slide continues to grow concern
(3 - 3:17pm, Aug 15)
Last: Walt Davis

Page rendered in 0.3408 seconds
45 querie(s) executed