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Friday, March 20, 2020

Twin bill? Doubleheaders may be possibility to make up games

Let’s play two? Colorado Rockies manager Bud Black would be down for doubleheaders.

Maybe even a couple a week.

That might be a necessity to make up games once a baseball season delayed by the new coronavirus gets under way.

“In theory, yeah, I think all of us would be up for some sort of doubleheader situation,” Black said during a conference call Thursday. “The thing that’s going to be in front of all of us is it’s going to be the same for everybody. It’s got to make sense for the clubs and the players.”

Somewhere, Ernie Banks is getting really excited…..

 

QLE Posted: March 20, 2020 at 01:00 AM | 42 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: doubleheaders

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   1. Starring RMc as Bradley Scotchman Posted: March 20, 2020 at 09:22 AM (#5932210)
Literally nobody wants doubleheaders: not the players, not the owners, not the TV networks, and especially not the fans (who can sit for seven hours at a time)?

So, no.
   2. Ron J Posted: March 20, 2020 at 09:35 AM (#5932212)
#1. The way pitching staffs are managed these days lots of doubleheaders would be … problematic at best.

I mean teams would adapt. And it might be interesting to see how it played out.
   3. Brian Posted: March 20, 2020 at 10:42 AM (#5932227)
They could increase roster size to 26. Oh, wait ...
   4. Howie Menckel Posted: March 20, 2020 at 10:55 AM (#5932234)
when I was about 9 or 10, I begged my brother, who was in college, to take me to "Banner Day" at Shea Stadium. I mean, the only thing better than one baseball game is TWO baseball games, right?

as per 1, yeah not so much. looooong day made more palatable, at least, by a bedsheet from an entrant that lamented the release of a forgettable OF from the previous season named Dave: "WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED TO SCHNECK?"
   5. mathesond Posted: March 20, 2020 at 12:03 PM (#5932249)
When I was 13, friends and I decided to head down to Exhibition Stadium to see a Jays-Yankees doubleheader. This was the first season the Jays would finish over .500, and at the time only a handful of games separated 1st from 5th in the AL East.

We arrived to discover it was sold out - in fact, it was the largest non-Opening Day crowd in franchise history to that point. Scalpers were selling $2 GA bleacher seats for $5, so we scored 3 for $14. We entered the grandstand to find that the only unobstructed view seats were in section 50 (of 51) - being that it was originally a football stadium, the grandstand didn't follow the curve of the fence, but continued in a straight line away from the field.

The first game was one of the most electric experiences of my life. The game went back and forth, before Garth Iorg scored the winning run in the 10th (running through Jimy One-M Williams' stop sign in the process).

The second game couldn't match the energy of the first. The Jays won handily, and I left in the 5th or 6th to beat the crowd.

Don't believe I've been to a twinbill since, but that one was a blast.
   6. PreservedFish Posted: March 20, 2020 at 12:14 PM (#5932250)
Literally nobody wants doubleheaders: not the players, not the owners, not the TV networks, and especially not the fans (who can sit for seven hours at a time)?


I ####### love doubleheaders.
   7. Greg Pope Posted: March 20, 2020 at 01:00 PM (#5932265)
especially not the fans (who can sit for seven hours at a time)?

Right, and then after that sit through a second game! No way.
   8. winnipegwhip Posted: March 20, 2020 at 01:16 PM (#5932266)
and especially not the fans (who can sit for seven hours at a time)?


I never saw a clause on the back of my ticket that required me to stay for the entire DH.
   9. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 20, 2020 at 01:21 PM (#5932268)
Maybe ballparks could install those little sleep pods so older fans could catch a nap during part of the DH.
   10. Tom Nawrocki Posted: March 20, 2020 at 01:25 PM (#5932269)
Doubleheaders were palatable when the games tended to last 2:15. When games frequently run more than three hours, they're insufferable.
   11. Astroenteritis Posted: March 20, 2020 at 02:05 PM (#5932279)
I love doubleheaders. For me, there is no amount of time that's too long to watch baseball in person. It's like being in some incredibly pleasant alternate reality, and I can't get enough of it. For some reason I've always remembered a scheduled DH I saw in the Dome between the Cubs and Astros, because I remember Joaquin Andujar pitching very well. I looked it up and it was June 6, 1976. Andujar pitched a 2-hit shutout in the opener, so my memory wasn't faulty on that. Astros won the second game 5-1 behind the pitching of Gil Rondon and Gene Pentz. It would be hard to find a more anonymous pair in Astros history.
   12. PreservedFish Posted: March 20, 2020 at 02:20 PM (#5932282)
For me, there is no amount of time that's too long to watch baseball in person. It's like being in some incredibly pleasant alternate reality, and I can't get enough of it.

Agreed.

I can even get arrested by a Little League game, or two law firms playing softball.

However, that is manifestly untrue when I'm watching on television.
   13. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 20, 2020 at 02:29 PM (#5932285)
I can even get arrested by a Little League game
Not allowed to go within 100 feet? Is there something you haven't told us?
   14. Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: March 20, 2020 at 02:30 PM (#5932287)
They're not even going to have singleheaders.
   15. Hysterical & Useless Posted: March 20, 2020 at 02:47 PM (#5932291)
The game has become insufferably slow...when watched on TV. But I've found that on those rare occasions when I venture to the ballpark the game just zips by. Unfortunately, as soon as I realize that it's past 10 PM and we're just about done with the bottom of the 7th, my body starts whining about how much it hates me for keeping it awake so late.
   16. Perry Posted: March 20, 2020 at 04:53 PM (#5932322)
Doubleheaders were palatable when the games tended to last 2:15. When games frequently run more than three hours, they're insufferable.


Right-o. When I was a kid in the late 60s, it was a 3-hour drive to Crosley Field and we went once a year, always a Sunday doubleheader. And we'd get there an hour early to watch batting practice. Midway through the first game, I'd start thinking, "darn, only 13 innings of baseball left" and counting down.

Some of my most memorable days at the park to this day, including this pair:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CIN/CIN196806091.shtml
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CIN/CIN196806092.shtml

(Yes, Steve Carlton lost the 2nd game in his 3rd inning in relief after starting game 1 and being knocked out in the 4th. Different times!)
   17. Rowland Office Supplies Posted: March 20, 2020 at 06:00 PM (#5932338)
I love doubleheaders. For me, there is no amount of time that's too long to watch baseball in person.

To me, as a kid, there was always something about the P.A. and scoreboard coming back to life with the lineups for that second game. It made me giddy.
   18. Cleveland (need new name) fan Posted: March 20, 2020 at 08:16 PM (#5932371)
If they did go this route, do you think that the owners could use it to get the players to agree to a trial of stringent "stay in the box" and pitch clock rules? The basic selling point would be that doing nothing will lead to a lot of 9 hour game days (~4 hour games with 45 minutes between game to remake the field). The players might be able to stand that once or twice a year, but twice a week? The season will already be a mess, so adding a couple of trial rule changes won't mess it up any more.
   19. Walt Davis Posted: March 20, 2020 at 08:40 PM (#5932376)
I guessed in another thread that, if things start up again, they'll do something like 28-man rosters for the full year (possibly with some limit on players available for a game). My logic is that they'd have some sort of warm-up period before games start but keep that as abbreviated as possible. With shortened prep time, they'll want larger rosters for at least the first 2 weeks (SPs not really ready to go more than 4-5 innings yet). And in Sept they get 28 anyway. That's even more true if they decide to squeeze in some double-headers. So if it's a 12-week season and 6 are already a 28-man roster, save the hassle. Also an expanded roster could serve as a compromise if MLB wins the service time battle.

Literally nobody wants doubleheaders: not the players, not the owners, not the TV networks, and especially not the fans (who can sit for seven hours at a time)?

I don't think that's true under the current circuumstances. It depends on how it can be worked out. Owners would very much like split doubleheaders so they can charge two admissions. Unless players are paid in full during the hiatus, they will want to get in as many games as they can as that means more salary (and will argue that DH days are double service days). The RSNs will want as much content as they can get to sell as much advertising as they can although if the RSN carries more than one team, they won't benefit from DHs. Fans will be plenty stir crazy -- but also many will be quite broke -- so we'll see how that goes. Anyway, once this is all over, every business will be trying to generate as much revenue as it possibly can. There is obviously a limit as to just how many DHs you can play but I won't be surprised if each team has one per week (on Sat probably).

Huh, better check to see what happens to my MLBtv subscription -- they better not being charging me.
   20. Welcome to Gator Hammock (CoB). Posted: March 20, 2020 at 09:11 PM (#5932383)
Let me know, I think they auto-charged me last year and I thought I'd cancelled it.
   21. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: March 21, 2020 at 12:48 AM (#5932405)
So a Red Sox/NY doubleheader would take like 8-9 hours....

There will be no baseball this year.
   22. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: March 21, 2020 at 11:20 AM (#5932436)
From what I’ve read, it seems like after 7 weeks of quarantine, we should have the number of cases down enough to be able to start opening things up again, but by that time we’ll need to have scaled up testing to South Korea type levels to keep R0 around 1 (and maybe that lupus and malaria drug will turn out to be effective against covid-19), as otherwise reopening means we’ll be back to a pandemic 2 months later. Honestly, if they can start June 1, I think I’d prefer just doing a 110 game season over doing something loaded with double headers.
   23. Walt Davis Posted: March 21, 2020 at 07:42 PM (#5932553)
#22 ... yeah, I think if they can open June 1 then a 110 (or whatever) game season is what they'll go for. I'm thinking a July 4 weekend start means they'll try to cram in some DHs. (And again depends on what salary agreements they come to with the union.)

As to 8 hour marathon DHs -- these presumably would be split DHs. You start a game at noon, you start a game at 7:30 on a Sat. Fans aren't asked to stick around for 8 hours. If the players don't want to play 6+ hours in one day, then they can speed the game up. And of course MLB could declare DHs to be 7-inning games. I think the key question is whether the demand (and therefore disposable income) will be there to bring out two crowds on a Sat.

It's obviously possible that players will decline the chance to squeeze 12 extra games in -- but that's 8% of their usual income and presumably about 16% of their potential 2020 income they would be giving up to avoid DHs. If the demand is there, then the owners would be passing up 8-16% of their usual revenue (even more given these are weekend dates). I suppose if there's baseball in July/Aug then there will be preseason football so maybe the RSNs won't care so much.

But basically ... if the demand/income is there, then there is money to be made and all the parties involved want to generate as much 2020 revenue as they possibly can. If the demand isn't there, it's a big problem no matter how many games they can squeeze in ... but yeah, no reason to play two games in front of crowds of 8,000.
   24. John Northey Posted: March 21, 2020 at 08:21 PM (#5932559)
Boy some optimists here if they think baseball will start in June. I personally will be surprised if sports (and any semblance of normal life) start up by August. The US hasn't hit the peak yet - and idiots keep going to beaches, some politicians think they are immune (in Kansas some think there aren't enough Chinese there to get it - talk about racist mixed with stupidity). Nah, we're looking at a tiny season and post season if anything in 2020, a full write off is very possible and imo even probable at this point.
   25. The Duke Posted: March 21, 2020 at 11:03 PM (#5932586)
Until we start heading in the right direction, it’s fruitless to even begin to plan. We are closer to martial law than we are to baseball.
   26. ReggieThomasLives Posted: March 21, 2020 at 11:22 PM (#5932593)
Make some rule changes so games average less than 2 hours, and voila, double headers become palatable, even enjoyed! That’s how baseball became so popular in the first place, and how they were able to have double headers to begin with.

I’ll start by proposing limiting inning breaks to one minute. That’s 34 minutes a game back, the rest should be trivial!
   27. Howie Menckel Posted: March 21, 2020 at 11:36 PM (#5932596)
I'm an optimist at heart, and I had 'Memorial Day' a week ago.

now 'July 4'! - and probably wrong.

already there is a big backlash in NY and NJ, because really wealthy NYCers and North Jerseyans with summer homes in The Hamptons and the Jersey Shore are migrating to those lower-level infection areas (although now Long Island is taking on water, so to speak). the locals are angry to have these families, as some no doubt are bringing the virus to their towns.

the uneven nature of this calamity makes transcontinental travel for sporting events seem impractical. if you are a Governor of a less-affected state, will you want teams from Seattle, NYC, etc to come visit this summer with not only an entourage of staff but also thousands of possibly infected fans?

it works both ways, too. if Seattle and NYC issues have declined nicely by the summer, do they want the late-developing virus state teams to visit THEM - unless recurrences clearly will not happen?


   28. Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: March 22, 2020 at 01:36 PM (#5932638)
already there is a big backlash in NY and NJ, because really wealthy NYCers and North Jerseyans with summer homes in The Hamptons and the Jersey Shore are migrating to those lower-level infection areas


Same thing is happening on Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket.
   29. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: March 22, 2020 at 01:52 PM (#5932641)

Make some rule changes so games average less than 2 hours, and voila, double headers become palatable, even enjoyed!


Make games three innings long, and you can have triple, even quadruple-headers!
   30. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: March 22, 2020 at 01:53 PM (#5932642)

I’ll start by proposing limiting inning breaks to one minute. That’s 34 minutes a game back, the rest should be trivial!

This will of course be accompanied by more advertising during game play if they're giving up half an hour of advertising per game. Maybe that's an ok tradeoff.
   31. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: March 22, 2020 at 01:58 PM (#5932645)

Would it be crazy for them to play the entire postseason in neutral, warm-weather stadiums in order to push the end of the season back a month? I mean, we don't know which teams will be in the playoffs yet, but I'm guessing you'll be able to cross off Miami and one or two other warm weather teams with a few months to spare.
   32. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: March 22, 2020 at 03:50 PM (#5932663)
Make games three innings long, and you can have triple, even quadruple-headers!
A month ago I watched both ends of a doubleheader between NC Central and Niagara. College doubleheaders used to always be 7 inning games, but now apparently they mix it up a bit. So the opener was nine innings, while the nightcap was a seven inning affair.
   33. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: March 22, 2020 at 04:00 PM (#5932665)
Would it be crazy for them to play the entire postseason in neutral, warm-weather stadiums in order to push the end of the season back a month? I mean, we don't know which teams will be in the playoffs yet, but I'm guessing you'll be able to cross off Miami and one or two other warm weather teams with a few months to spare.
If the hope that the virus doesn't transmit so well in warm weather turns out to be true (which I doubt), one could see the teams playing a good chunk of the season in their spring training facilities. Hell, if it comes to that just realign everyone for a single season into the Grapefruit and Cactus Leagues.
   34. Ziggy is done with Dominican discotheques Posted: March 22, 2020 at 04:28 PM (#5932667)
Not liking doubleheaders ---> Not liking baseball.

And of course these would not be single-admission affairs.

Re: Walt's comments - I think players get paid per service day, not per game. The commissioner has the authority to suspend contracts during the apocalypse, but hasn't yet given any indication that he's going to. (No doubt he's considering it.) So as things stand, players get paid regardless of whether there are any games. (Or maybe there has to be at least one game for it to count as a "championship season" or something.)
   35. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: March 22, 2020 at 04:31 PM (#5932668)
So a Red Sox/NY doubleheader would take like 8-9 hours....

Fun fact: In 1952, they measured game times, and games in Fenway took longer than in any other park. But Giants-Dodgers games in Ebbets Field took an average of 3:02, about half an hour longer than the average MLB game.

Which makes sense, since in the early 1950's the Giants-Dodgers rivalry was at least as intense as the Yankees-Red Sox blood feud of today.
   36. Bourbon Samurai stays in the fight Posted: March 22, 2020 at 04:50 PM (#5932672)
I am betting we have games without fans by June. the temptation to get the TV money will be too great. Maybe late august/september for games with fans
   37. Walt Davis Posted: March 22, 2020 at 05:30 PM (#5932679)
Re: Walt's comments - I think players get paid per service day, not per game.

Sure ... a scenario the MLBPA will not accept under current circumstances if asked to regularly play 2 games per service day. (Dependent on the answer to the following question.)

So as things stand, players get paid regardless of whether there are any games. (Or maybe there has to be at least one game for it to count as a "championship season" or something.)

This is my assumption ... there is at this point no "championship season." We don't even have 25-man rosters. Opening day was scheduled for the 26th. But I agree that if the players with signed, guaranteed contracts are being paid in full then the players have little incentive to play DHs.

   38. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: March 23, 2020 at 07:55 AM (#5932734)
For me, there is no amount of time that's too long to watch baseball in person.

Agreed.

I can even get arrested by a Little League game, or two law firms playing softball.


Oh, I think you would change your tune if you had been at the last HS game I did. Took nearly 2 hours to play the first 3 innings. Score was something like 17-9 with about 3 balls put in play. Fortunately, it was a JV game and they have a 2 hour time limit.
   39. SoSH U at work Posted: March 23, 2020 at 08:27 AM (#5932742)
Oh, I think you would change your tune if you had been at the last HS game I did. Took nearly 2 hours to play the first 3 innings. Score was something like 17-9 with about 3 balls put in play. Fortunately, it was a JV game and they have a 2 hour time limit.


That's why I stopped umping. Give me soccer and its fixed time and no equipment over 3 hours behind the plate in 90 degree weather to play four innings.

   40. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: March 23, 2020 at 08:36 AM (#5932744)
That's why I stopped umping. Give me soccer and its fixed time and no equipment over 3 hours behind the plate in 90 degree weather to play four innings.


Yeah, I think I'm done.
   41. PreservedFish Posted: March 23, 2020 at 08:52 AM (#5932746)
Oh, I think you would change your tune if you had been at the last HS game I did. Took nearly 2 hours to play the first 3 innings. Score was something like 17-9 with about 3 balls put in play. Fortunately, it was a JV game and they have a 2 hour time limit.

This is horrible for everyone, especially the kids. You should've told the coaches to start pitching.
   42. Starring RMc as Bradley Scotchman Posted: March 23, 2020 at 09:12 AM (#5932749)
Re 27: Maybe the Yankees will be reduced to a group of itinerants playing in small towns, like in Interstellar...

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