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Monday, March 15, 2021

Two Texas Rangers employees on what Opening Day at full capacity will be like

Both employees who spoke to The News are hoping for the best while bracing for the worst. They asked for no identifying information other than their roles, a request the Daily News granted because they fear retribution from the team.

“Depending on how uncooperative customers are being, you may have to get police involved,” said a veteran front-office staffer of the upcoming season. “It’s that risk assessment in your brain. And a lot of times, it’s not going to come down on the side of public safety if you’re trying to keep your people from physical harm,” they said.

Many of their colleagues — especially the senior citizens stationed around Globe Life’s escalators and vessels — were hired as greeters, but he believes they are being positioned to manage conflict like bouncers.

“At least down here, most of them are older age…they’re working games so they can have something to do, and so they can get out and socialize,” they said, comparing them to Wal-Mart staffers. “It’s not an adversarial position. That’s not why they are doing this.”

“I know exactly how it’s gonna go,” said another Globe Life Field staffer, this one in a customer-facing role. “People already weren’t wearing masks.”

Doesn’t help that their ad shows a fan taking his mask off!

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 15, 2021 at 04:28 PM | 45 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: coronavirus, rangers

Reader Comments and Retorts

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. John Northey Posted: March 15, 2021 at 10:40 PM (#6008737)
My lord how irresponsible can the Rangers get? I hope the Jays blow them out with 10 runs in the first inning just to make it as un-fun as possible for the COVIDiots who go to the game.
   2. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: March 15, 2021 at 10:55 PM (#6008740)
21.4% of the country has received at least one dose and 11.5% are fully vaccinated. Those numbers will be significantly higher by opening day. Plenty of people going won't be risking Covid.
   3. Astroenteritis Posted: March 15, 2021 at 11:14 PM (#6008742)
One thing that has not ceased to amaze me about this pandemic is how comfortable the science deniers seem to be with the idea that a certain number of preventable deaths is acceptable. It's almost as if they see humans as expendable, up to a point. I mean, hundreds of thousands have died who didn't have to. How do people rationalize that?
   4. The Yankee Clapper Posted: March 15, 2021 at 11:34 PM (#6008745)
The D.C government announced today that the Nationals will be allowed to have 5,000 fans, ~ 12% of capacity. Might be enough time for that to go higher by Opening Day, although I suspect D.C. will lag most areas in raising the limit.

   5. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 15, 2021 at 11:52 PM (#6008748)
From TFA:
The stadium staffer said they watched fans purposefully “hold a drink in their hands” to ward off mask enforcement.
I was at the Red Sox-Twins spring training game yesterday - mask compliance appeared to be limited to whatever percentage my party of 3 represented out of the total crowd. In our section, literally no one even bothered to make a show of holding a drink, and the staff reciprocated by doing nothing that would indicate that mask enforcement was at all part of their thought process.

I was with my dad and my cousin, both of whom are fully vaccinated, and we were outside. In an indoor stadium, I would have probably gotten the hell out of there posthaste.
   6. Rough Carrigan Posted: March 16, 2021 at 12:25 AM (#6008751)
The irony.
The science deniers are the people who think a mask does anything to protect you from a virus. Here are 12 studies done over the last 40 years all of which found masks to be useless or slightly detrimental.
https://visionlaunch.com/more-than-a-dozen-credible-medical-studies-prove-face-masks-do-not-work-even-in-hospitals/

Can you cite studies to the contrary?
   7. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 16, 2021 at 12:39 AM (#6008752)
https://visionlaunch.com/


Hmmm, let’s check that out...

What is Vision Launch Media?

Vision Launch Media is your gateway into the world of alternative media. We are a curated discovery platform for free-speech and independent thought.

We use alternative sourced information to increase public awareness of crucial issues. Our goal is to help neutralize the corporate media’s dominance over our culture & our nation’s collective consciousness.

At Vision Launch Media, we do not claim to know the “truth” or have all the answers. We simply make suppressed information more readily available so people can do their own research and come to their own conclusions.


   8. SoSH U at work Posted: March 16, 2021 at 12:58 AM (#6008754)
Hmmm, let’s check that out...


Rough has been cracking pots for a while now.
   9. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: March 16, 2021 at 01:06 AM (#6008755)
Vision Launch Media is your gateway into the world of alternative media. We are a curated discovery platform for free-speech and independent thought.


Well that's me done. Between this and twitter I need not source other news, ever!

   10. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: March 16, 2021 at 01:10 AM (#6008756)
We simply make suppressed information more readily available so people can do their own research

Obligatory.
   11. Mayor Blomberg Posted: March 16, 2021 at 01:44 AM (#6008758)
the science denier

don't be unfair to the market-firsters; give both sides credit.
   12. Bhaakon Posted: March 16, 2021 at 02:05 AM (#6008760)
Assuming all these studies are correct and reputable, they're about bacterial infection rates in a surgical or similar setting. A setting where the person being exposed is typically marinating in prophylactic antibiotics before, during, and often after. It's also worth noting that surgical masks are only designed to stop larger globules of ejected saliva, not smaller airborne particles, and the situations in these studies tend to involve prolonged interaction (surgeries can take hours). It's entirely possible that they seem unnecessary simply because their level of protection is insufficient in a surgical context. As far as I can tell from scanning the abstract, none of these studies is about about transmission of respiratory viruses via short exposure among a population with no additional layers of protection from infection.

Which seems odd, because this article was written in August, not April, so the author had months of time from the start of mask mandates to actually research more relevant studies and these are all they could come up with. It took me all of 15 seconds to find more than one from August 2020 or earlier, and while some studies have a mixed result for surgical-style masks in particular, I suspect the real problem is that they lacked the unambiguous negative result needed to confirm the author's bias. So instead they went with a disingenuous apples-to-oranges comparison on the sadly sound logic that it's more effective to mislead with conviction rather than inform with ambiguity when your audience has no time or inclination for critical thought or independent research.
   13. Jack Sommers Posted: March 16, 2021 at 08:40 AM (#6008764)
"it's more effective to mislead with conviction rather than inform with ambiguity when your audience has no time or inclination for critical thought or independent research. "


That perfectly describes the core strategy of misinformation propagators.

   14. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 16, 2021 at 08:48 AM (#6008765)
21.4% of the country has received at least one dose and 11.5% are fully vaccinated.


Texas is one of the worst in this category. They are 5th worst in % of fully vaccinated (9.9%), and single shot (19%) among the 50 states and DC.

I agree that it will be better by April, but it isn't going to be anywhere close to the level required to feel safe about packing 40,000 people indoors...
   15. Jack Sommers Posted: March 16, 2021 at 09:12 AM (#6008766)
21.4% of the country has received at least one dose and 11.5% are fully vaccinated. Those numbers will be significantly higher by opening day. Plenty of people going won't be risking Covid.


It's a little lower in Texas, 19% and 10%

Thanks to a volunteer program available here in Arizona my family and I were able to schedule and work overnight shifts out at the vaccine site at State Farm Stadium in Glendale, making us eligible for shots at the end of our shift. Just got our second shot yesterday. ( Pfizer, We all feel fine)

Due to concern over variants however I'm still not quite ready to just dive back into the masses. While it appears the efficacy of Pfizer vs Brazil and U.K. variants seems to be promising, protection against the South African variant seems less so.

Pfizer is already working on a "booster" specifically for the S.A. Variant, so that should give you some idea of the level of concern. As of last week there had been 81 cases identified in 20 states. Due to a severe lack of sequencing capability where less than 5 out of every 1000 cases have been sequenced health authorities are working almost blind.

Meanwhile, who knows what variants have incubated and developed right here in the USA. New York and California variants have already been identified, (and detected in Texas by the way). Based on how viruses work, with all the rampant unchecked spread here in the US, it's probably a good bet we already have our own variants that transmit more rapidly and may even be more deadly.

So we'll still try to be smart. We'll do small family get togethers, 6-8 fully vaccinated people and BBQ outdoors, etc. But I fully expect to see a surge over the next 2-4 weeks, reversing the declines we've seen in many areas. So ballpark attendance is not on my calendar just yet.

EDIT: Coke to RTG on the Texas percentages.

   16. winnipegwhip Posted: March 16, 2021 at 09:40 AM (#6008768)
Please can we stop calling the labelling the variants as South African. That is racist.
   17. Jack Sommers Posted: March 16, 2021 at 09:53 AM (#6008773)
   18. JL72 Posted: March 16, 2021 at 10:22 AM (#6008774)
It's a little lower in Texas, 19% and 10%


How should we factor this in with those already exposed? Worldometers has Texas at about 9.3% who have had COIVD.It feels like we can double that to include those who got it and had minor or no symptoms and thus did not report. Add that the vaccinated group, and we are getting close to 25% of the population who are fully covered(maybe). Of course there will be some overlap, as some who are getting vaccinated already had it.

It seems like the big unknown is how other variants will affect (1) those who are vaccinated, and (2) those how had a previous variant. Based on my limited googling skills, I don't have a good sense of the later.
   19. Jack Sommers Posted: March 16, 2021 at 10:38 AM (#6008776)
I don't think there are definitive answers, other than to say 25% isn't nearly close enough to where we need to be.

Check out These NYT Times Graphs

This NPR Simulation is pretty good graphic too

   20. JL72 Posted: March 16, 2021 at 10:59 AM (#6008779)
Thanks
   21. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: March 16, 2021 at 11:42 AM (#6008784)
All I got to say is that NONE OF THOSE CARDBOARD CUTOUTS IS WEARING A MASK.
   22. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: March 16, 2021 at 01:01 PM (#6008799)

How should we factor this in with those already exposed? Worldometers has Texas at about 9.3% who have had COIVD.It feels like we can double that to include those who got it and had minor or no symptoms and thus did not report. Add that the vaccinated group, and we are getting close to 25% of the population who are fully covered(maybe). Of course there will be some overlap, as some who are getting vaccinated already had it.


I would guess Texas is at more like 25-30% previously infected, so probably more like 35-40% fully covered. As I said in the other thread, I'd still like to see those numbers a bit higher before full attendance events. But we'll get there in the coming months, I think.
   23. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: March 16, 2021 at 01:38 PM (#6008810)
I would guess Texas is at more like 25-30% previously infected, so probably more like 35-40% fully covered.


Why would you just assume the 10% fully vaccinated were not in the previously infected group?
   24. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 16, 2021 at 01:48 PM (#6008813)
We also don't know that the previously infected group can't get infected again, in fact there are reports of people getting it twice, which shouldn't be surprising given there are new strains, and that some think the antibodies wear off after several months.
   25. The Mighty Quintana Posted: March 16, 2021 at 01:56 PM (#6008814)
The correlation between the unvaccinated and those willing to attend crowded events without a mask is probably pretty strong, so I think this has the making of yet another super-spreader event.
   26. Jeff Francoeur's OPS Posted: March 16, 2021 at 01:57 PM (#6008815)
If people want to go, who cares? People should be allowed to live their life how they please. All the key metrics are way down and we have a vaccine becoming more and more available. We've been dealing with this for a year. The main pretense for restrictions -- preserving hospital capacity -- is a no longer an issue. So let people live how they want.
   27. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: March 16, 2021 at 02:00 PM (#6008816)

Why would you just assume the 10% fully vaccinated were not in the previously infected group?


I don't assume that. I guess I should have said "30-40% fully covered" but since this is all just guesswork anyway I wasn't that precise.
   28. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 16, 2021 at 02:13 PM (#6008817)

If people want to go, who cares? People should be allowed to live their life how they please.


Because if people continue to spread the virus, it will affect people who chose not to go to the game.
   29. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 16, 2021 at 02:19 PM (#6008818)
We've been dealing with this for a year.
And you people are still pretending not to understand how disease transmission works.
   30. The Yankee Clapper Posted: March 16, 2021 at 02:32 PM (#6008819)
Why would you just assume the 10% fully vaccinated were not in the previously infected group?
Some might be, but one would think that many with early vaccine priority - healthcare workers, older senior citizens, and those with underlying conditions - might have been more careful than the general population, and thus have a lower rate of infection.
   31. Karl from NY Posted: March 16, 2021 at 02:40 PM (#6008820)
how comfortable the science deniers seem to be with the idea that a certain number of preventable deaths is acceptable.

If no preventable deaths are acceptable, then we would prohibit motor vehicles. Also all sports.
   32. Mayor Blomberg Posted: March 16, 2021 at 02:41 PM (#6008821)
And you people are still pretending not to understand how disease transmission works.

what makes you think it's pretense?
   33. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: March 16, 2021 at 02:42 PM (#6008822)
The correlation between the unvaccinated and those willing to attend crowded events without a mask is probably pretty strong, so I think this has the making of yet another super-spreader event.


Seems like it should be the opposite. Once I'm fully vaccinated, I'd be ready to attend fully packed games at Dodger Stadium if it were an option. But I wouldn't do that right now.
   34. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: March 16, 2021 at 03:28 PM (#6008826)
That's because you're a sensible person JCI. But no doubt Aubrey Huff would also like to go to ball games.
   35. Rough Carrigan Posted: March 16, 2021 at 03:31 PM (#6008827)
Hmmm, let’s check that out...

Maybe you're desperate to find excuses not to read anything that would challenge you to think. So the old, I don't approve of this messenger game was handy. I didn't know anything about the messenger. But I did see that it was full of links to the studies in question.

You need to take a breath and drop the fixation on adhering to the latest catechisms of political correctness and open your mind.
   36. Rough Carrigan Posted: March 16, 2021 at 03:34 PM (#6008829)
Assuming all these studies are correct and reputable, they're about bacterial infection rates in a surgical or similar setting. A setting where the person being exposed is typically marinating in prophylactic antibiotics before, during, and often after. It's also worth noting that surgical masks are only designed to stop larger globules of ejected saliva, not smaller airborne particles, and the situations in these studies tend to involve prolonged interaction (surgeries can take hours). It's entirely possible that they seem unnecessary simply because their level of protection is insufficient in a surgical context. As far as I can tell from scanning the abstract, none of these studies is about about transmission of respiratory viruses via short exposure among a population with no additional layers of protection from infection.

Which seems odd, because this article was written in August, not April, so the author had months of time from the start of mask mandates to actually research more relevant studies and these are all they could come up with. It took me all of 15 seconds to find more than one from August 2020 or earlier, and while some studies have a mixed result for surgical-style masks in particular, I suspect the real problem is that they lacked the unambiguous negative result needed to confirm the author's bias. So instead they went with a disingenuous apples-to-oranges comparison on the sadly sound logic that it's more effective to mislead with conviction rather than inform with ambiguity when your audience has no time or inclination for critical thought or independent research.

Bacteria are typically much larger than viruses. If masks have no value in stopping bacteria why would they have value in stopping viruses?
   37. greenback used to say live and let live Posted: March 16, 2021 at 04:00 PM (#6008835)
Bacteria are typically much larger than viruses. If masks have no value in stopping bacteria why would they have value in stopping viruses?

Instead of trying to use rules of thumb, shouldn't viral transmission be covered in one of your studies?
   38. Walt Davis Posted: March 16, 2021 at 04:52 PM (#6008846)
what makes you think it's pretense?

Ignorance is easy; ignoring requires effort.
   39. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: March 16, 2021 at 05:04 PM (#6008852)
Maybe you're desperate to find excuses not to read anything that would challenge you to think. So the old, I don't approve of this messenger game was handy. I didn't know anything about the messenger. But I did see that it was full of links to the studies in question.

You need to take a breath and drop the fixation on adhering to the latest catechisms of political correctness and open your mind.
OK, edgelord.
   40. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: March 16, 2021 at 05:20 PM (#6008856)
the ignore function is my friend. the ignore function should be your friend also.
   41. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 16, 2021 at 05:34 PM (#6008860)
Here are 12 studies done over the last 40 years all of which found masks to be useless or slightly detrimental.
Forty years? Wow. I didn't realize covid enabled time travel as well as killing people.
   42. Ben Broussard Ramjet Posted: March 16, 2021 at 05:40 PM (#6008861)
Bacteria are typically much larger than viruses. If masks have no value in stopping bacteria why would they have value in stopping viruses?


I had understood that the Covid virus is transmitted on aerosolized droplets, which are large enough to be caught by masks.
   43. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 16, 2021 at 05:47 PM (#6008862)
Maybe you're desperate to find excuses not to read anything that would challenge you to think. So the old, I don't approve of this messenger game was handy. I didn't know anything about the messenger. But I did see that it was full of links to the studies in question.
It was certainly full of something.
   44. Bhaakon Posted: March 16, 2021 at 08:23 PM (#6008881)
Bacteria are typically much larger than viruses. If masks have no value in stopping bacteria why would they have value in stopping viruses?


Well, a couple of reasons. Like I said, these studies are in a setting where the patients are loading up on antibiotics anyway, so the studies are possibly finding that the antibiotics and other measures are sufficient without masks. So it's a bit like wearing a helmet in your car when you also have airbags, crumple zones, and a seat belts. Finding out that the helmet isn't doing much for you in low-speed car crash doesn't mean it doesn't help you in a bicycle accident, because bicycles don't have airbags, crumple zones, or seat belts. So basically it could be finding that you don't need a mask to protect yourself if you have, say, a level of immunity from a vaccine. Which isn't really news. Unfortunately, at the time this was written, there were neither vaccines nor anti-viral medications of similar efficacy to broad-spectrum antibiotics (not that it would be smart to pop them prophylacticly even if there were).

It's also worth considering that the mask might be pretty useless if you're locked in an room with someone for 3 hours, but far more effective if you're having a 3 minute interaction in a large or open space. Sort of like how a water resistant phone will probably be OK if you drop it in a puddle and immediately pluck it out, but not so much if you put it through the washing machine. Not all exposure scenarios are created equally, and the surgery studies are essentially a worst case.
   45. Howie Menckel Posted: March 16, 2021 at 09:05 PM (#6008889)
Sort of like how a water resistant phone will probably be OK if you drop it in a puddle and immediately pluck it out, but not so much if you put it through the washing machine.

raise your hand if you have done the latter.

[sheepishly raises hand]

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