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Baseball Primer Newsblog — The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand Monday, November 22, 2021Vaccaro: Why I won’t vote for PED-cheat Alex Rodriguez on Hall of Fame ballot
RoyalsRetro (AG#1F)
Posted: November 22, 2021 at 10:48 PM | 29 comment(s)
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1. Hombre BrotaniAnd if he’d merely left the drugs alone after coming clean in 2009 — two years after he lied in Katie Couric’s face, and in America’s, swearing he’d never touched them — this could be an entirely different conversation.
Is this courtesy extended to Bonds and McGwire and Palmeiro (and Sosa although we have no real evidence he used to being with ... and Clemens)? As far as we know they didn't use after PEDs were actually made illegal (and testing began). At worst, they lied to Congress not St Katie's face ... surely the former is the lesser sin.
If you're really curious about the answer to that question, you should have read the article.
I'm not really sure where I'd come down on Arod, but like Hombre I don't have a problem with drawing the line with him.
And it looks like that as the BB/RC situation get resolved one way or another this year, the ARod situation comes just in time to take its place for the next 10 years...
He didn’t vote for Manny, which is very consistent with his take on A-Roid.
The problem I have is just about every time I fill out a mock ballot, there were 10 guys who were better than Sammy. The ballot crunch has abated in recent years and I might have had a spot for him last year.
^^^^
This
If you're interested in an NSFW prank, look up Katie Couric & Amy Shumer.
I'm a huge Sammy fan. Couldn't disagree with you more. It's not a raw deal. He used and is exhibit 1A on the benefits of roiding up.
Bonds, being exhibit 1, is much more of a tragedy since he was probably the best player in the sport prior to the time he is widely considered to begin using.
I still can't understand the objection to HGH though.
If that's all there is, that's...well, not much.
Sometimes I think about the guys who might have broken Maris' record if they'd played in the 90s and 00s, and there tend to be a lot of very good players sprinkled in among the greats. George Foster probably would have done it. Jim Rice. Frank Howard. In the end, Sosa is closer to those guys, in my mind, than he is to Bonds or Griffey or some of the other slugging outfielders of his own era.
I'm also really tired of anti-steroid articles. We've been subjected to so much sanctimoniousness over the past couple decades that I've sort of reflexively started liking steroid users more for the fact that they used steroids.
Hey that's HOFer Jim Rice!
I remember going to a Giants Cubs game in SF (maybe 1995 or 1996?) before I knew anything about steroids (I was high school and an A's fan). When Bonds and Sosa were talking before the game it looked like they were about 3 feet thick from their chest to their back. I couldn't believe how huge they were.
Not only that, but IIRC, they were testing for a whole lot of things, many of which weren't even banned substances.
Yes, the "evidence" against Sosa is that he was named by the NYT as being on the list. Per the NYT, this required two people "familiar with the list" to name Sosa. Even if that was the case (the NYT's track record on due diligence on sources is not great), there are numerous issues. First, this occurred several months after ARod had been named by SI. Why did it take so long to find these two people who would confirm? Did they find the first person shortly after the SI article broke then spent 3-4 months calling around to various lawyers and finally found a second? Next, the sources did not have the list in front of them at the time they confirmed Sosa's (and other?) names ... did they possibly confuse Sosa with Manny or Ortiz? Next, as with any such anonymously sourced articles, how many other players were named by source #1 that you couldn't get confirmed or whose presence on the list might have even been denied by other sources? (i.e. is either source actually reliable?) Next, there were apparently numerous false positives on the list although MLB/MLBPA only made a big deal over Ortiz.
To this day, as far as I know, nobody in the media has seen a legit copy of the list. It's basically all "lawyers" (are we sure about that?) going off their memory of the list from several months prior. It's just crappy "evidence."
- ok here's yer "evidence"
1 - he put on a lot of muscle weight after being skinny at age 20 because we all know it is not physically possible for any man to put on any muscle weight after age 20 without shooting up. except for now - i've read about at least 4-5 guys who have put on 20 lbs of muscle since last season but the truth is now different from what it used to be
2 - he don espicka da inlis perfeck especially in front of congress (everyone else speaks like a college professor of English literature)
3 - someone said that someone said that they heard that someone read his name on a list, don't know what the supposedly positive test was for, but hey - accused = guilty
4 - he played loud hispanic type music in the clubhouse even after a loss. therefore he did drugs
what more evidence do you need?
Give Sosa strike credit, and he squeaks over 60 WAR. He's more in the boat with Killebrew, McCovey, Stargell, and Billy Williams. He doesn't need to be on par with Bonds and Griffey as a slugging outfielder to be a valid HOFer any more than those guys had to be on par with Mays, Aaron, Mantle, and F Robinson.
Edit: Also, who are the other slugging outfielders of the era that you think Sosa is clearly behind? Manny, I suppose, but Sammy is right on par with Vlad and Sheffield. I can't really think of any others...
1 - he put on a lot of muscle weight after being skinny at age 20 because we all know it is not physically possible for any man to put on any muscle weight after age 20 without shooting up. except for now - i've read about at least 4-5 guys who have put on 20 lbs of muscle since last season but the truth is now different from what it used to be
2 - he don espicka da inlis perfeck especially in front of congress (everyone else speaks like a college professor of English literature)
3 - someone said that someone said that they heard that someone read his name on a list, don't know what the supposedly positive test was for, but hey - accused = guilty
4 - he played loud hispanic type music in the clubhouse even after a loss. therefore he did drugs
what more evidence do you need?
Hey, he didn't take Rick Reilly's "If you didn't take steroids, then piss in this cup" test!
Again, you can't talk about Sosa's evidence without talking about the doctored bat. It was very public and went straight to credibility, which impacts every other argument about him.
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