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Tuesday, August 16, 2022

Video shows Tony La Russa may have listened to fan in stands before putting pinch runner in

And now … did he listen to a fan in the stands to tell him to put in a pinch runner in the eighth inning on Monday night?

Here’s the situation: With the White Sox and Houston Astros tied 2-2 after a Eloy Jimenez double, video shows a fan in the stands near the Chicago dugout yelling at La Russa to put in Adam Engel as a pinch-runner, which would make sense given Engel’s speed.

Suddenly, there’s La Russa making THAT EXACT MOVE.

Now: This could be coincidence. Maybe La Russa was considering that very move.

Or … WHOA.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 16, 2022 at 11:56 AM | 33 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: tony larussa

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   1. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: August 16, 2022 at 12:09 PM (#6091878)
   2. sunday silence (again) Posted: August 16, 2022 at 12:35 PM (#6091881)
So much for the idea that the bean counters in management are making all these decisions
   3. Cris E Posted: August 16, 2022 at 12:44 PM (#6091883)
Tony's not asleep, he's on a spirit journey listening for guidance. In this case it wasn't a horse-shaped cloud over Yosemite or a local cop writing a DUI ticket, it was a dentist from Oak Brook. It's all good.
   4. ReggieThomasLives Posted: August 16, 2022 at 01:02 PM (#6091884)
Rebuttal: first you have to establish that Tony listens to anyone ever.
   5. Rough Carrigan Posted: August 16, 2022 at 01:05 PM (#6091885)
Nah, he was telling Tony about today's blue plate special and a great buy on depends.
   6. Nasty Nate Posted: August 16, 2022 at 01:05 PM (#6091886)
Why was that guy in the crowd being filmed like that? I'm a little dubious.
   7. Itchy Row Posted: August 16, 2022 at 01:07 PM (#6091888)
Why didn't he tell La Russa to retire?
   8. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: August 16, 2022 at 01:13 PM (#6091889)
That does seem like that is exactly what happened. The batter was already in the box when Tony hobbled out there.
   9. PeteF3 Posted: August 16, 2022 at 01:16 PM (#6091891)
I snorted at the headline initially, but there's a long delay while the Astros figure out their signs, then we hear the fan, and then LaRussa makes the move. When you watch the video it actually looks plausible.
   10. KronicFatigue Posted: August 16, 2022 at 02:35 PM (#6091897)
Why was that guy in the crowd being filmed like that? I'm a little dubious


Because every fan in the stadium has a camera with (essentially) limitless memory, and many of them record video when there's an exciting situation developing. 2-2 with a guy on 2nd seems exciting enough for SOMEONE to start recording, and at that point, why not point the camera at the guy yelling and then interacting at TLR
   11. Nasty Nate Posted: August 16, 2022 at 02:47 PM (#6091899)
Because every fan in the stadium has a camera with (essentially) limitless memory, and many of them record video when there's an exciting situation developing. 2-2 with a guy on 2nd seems exciting enough for SOMEONE to start recording, and at that point, why not point the camera at the guy yelling and then interacting at TLR
Fair enough. I guess some part of the recording might also have been edited out from the beginning.
   12. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: August 16, 2022 at 04:21 PM (#6091906)
If you're a White Sox fan, this season must be absolute AGONY.
   13. Walt Davis Posted: August 16, 2022 at 04:26 PM (#6091908)
But was the fan a f'ing moron or a tactical genius? (The only two options with regard to managers.) Followed by two walks and a single, the run would have scored anyway.

Would Tony have come around soon enough to at least make the defensive replacement for Eloy?

I go back and forth on PRs. Back in Diamond Mind days, in a situation like this, I'd make that move all the time. And time after time it didn't matter and then that spot in the batting order came around again and I've got Engel at the plate instead of Eloy. Obviously it must have worked sometimes too and it's not like I kept track or ran experiments but I did it a lot less as time went on.

If the Sox were already ahead, it would be a no-brainer since you are planning to make the defensive replacement anyway (although maybe that doesn't work any better than PRs) but with the score still tied and 2 outs, most of the time, you're going to the 9th tied.

As to TLR ... where's the bench coach? Over the course of 162 games, 1400+ innings I'm sure there are going to be moments when every manager zones out and misses the obvious move. But this is why you have coaches, especially bench coaches. Good ol' Don Zimmer's only job on those Torre teams (other than Jeter good luck charm) was to say "maybe we wanna pinch-run here" to Torre 3 times a year. And today I assume there's a Quality Re-Assurance Coach to back up the Quality Assurance Coach so that you have 4 eyes that are supposed to do nothing but look at the continually updating win expectancy table simulation results provided by AWS Cloud Services and Caesar's Sports Book.
   14. The Duke Posted: August 16, 2022 at 05:40 PM (#6091917)
This is a thing because people want it to be true.

And the surest reason this is so? No 80 year old man a) could possibly hear someone that far away and b) would ever listen to anyones counsel but his own

As Walt pointed out there are like 5 coaches and 25 players who could point out the obvious. Every picture of every manager is always him talking somberly to his bench coach. Did the bench coach have to pee?
   15. chisoxcollector Posted: August 16, 2022 at 05:56 PM (#6091920)
If you're a White Sox fan, this season must be absolute AGONY


Indeed it is. This has been my least favorite season in 30 years as a Sox fan.
   16. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: August 16, 2022 at 07:12 PM (#6091933)
This has been my least favorite season in 30 years as a Sox fan.

Really? Worse than that 100-loss season, which was (check notes) FOUR YEARS AGO??

Anyway, try being a Tigers fan, bubalah.
   17. Walt Davis Posted: August 16, 2022 at 07:47 PM (#6091938)
#16 ... maybe. Certainly among my least favorite Cub fan experiences was towards the end of Dusty's tenure. The team was often playing fundamentally unsound ball, being called on it by the media and fans and Baker would trot out and ... defend the players and criticize the critics. They even got into a tiff with the TV crew, Steve Stone in particular, for pointing out when the team made mistakes. It wasn't the worst team I've ever seen (by far) and of course there were still fond memories of the 2003 team and I'd even say that Dusty was no worse than the 2nd-best manager the Cubs had to that point in my lifetime ... but it was a pretty miserable fan experience. I'll take an unlovable winner over a lovable loser (I might even cook up reasons to love them) but unlovable losers are way at the bottom of the list.

Lord only knows what you do with unlovable mediocrity that might sneak into the playoffs then win it all.
   18. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: August 16, 2022 at 08:02 PM (#6091941)
If you're a White Sox fan, this season must be absolute AGONY


Eh, at least your team is above .500. The Red Sox are still below .500, Sale is injured again and up until recently, they were sporting line ups that in reality had 4-5 players each game that didn't belong on a major league roster. The Red Sox are looking at finishing last, again, in the AL east.

Or you could be a Pirates, Nats or A's fan. That would be not be enjoyable right now.
   19. The importance of being Ernest Riles Posted: August 17, 2022 at 10:43 AM (#6092018)
Or you could be a Pirates, Nats or A's fan. That would be not be enjoyable right now.


Can confirm.
   20. Up2Drew Posted: August 17, 2022 at 12:17 PM (#6092026)
They even got into a tiff with the TV crew, Steve Stone in particular, for pointing out when the team made mistakes.


Oh, so that was back when Steve Stone actually criticized the home team.
   21. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: August 17, 2022 at 12:31 PM (#6092027)
I'd even say that Dusty was no worse than the 2nd-best manager the Cubs had to that point in my lifetime
Come on. I know he has improved (and his image in thinking-fan circles rehabilitated) significantly since then, but he was genuinely terrible as the Cubs' manager.
   22. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: August 17, 2022 at 02:24 PM (#6092036)
Yeah I can't see anything here. Some fan was yelling a fairly basic managerial move that the manager made. This is like giving me credit for screaming "throw strikes" at a pitcher who has walked two straight guys.
   23. sunday silence (again) Posted: August 17, 2022 at 02:48 PM (#6092039)
The video was taken by hte mans son if that helps. I know nate was asking. Not sure wot it proves
   24. SoSH U at work Posted: August 17, 2022 at 03:00 PM (#6092041)
Come on. I know he has improved (and his image in thinking-fan circles rehabilitated) significantly since then, but he was genuinely terrible as the Cubs' manager.


It's somewhere in between. He wasn't as bad as Cubs fans made him out to be (in retrospect, a lot of the stuff you guys moaned about back then was simply wrong), and he was pretty good in San Francisco before he got to Chicago, so it's not like he simply "improved."

On the other hand, he didn't have a good run in Chicago. He should have walked away after 2004, as the last two years were pretty awful. And, regardless where anyone who came before him ranks, I don't see how he gets slotted over either Piniella or Madden in the Cubs skippers in Walt's lifetime category (certainly if you're measuring by how they did in Chicago, not elsewhere).
   25. SoSH U at work Posted: August 17, 2022 at 03:01 PM (#6092042)

Yeah I can't see anything here. Some fan was yelling a fairly basic managerial move that the manager made. This is like giving me credit for screaming "throw strikes" at a pitcher who has walked two straight guys.



That was you? Good job.
   26. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: August 17, 2022 at 08:14 PM (#6092086)
Some fan was yelling a fairly basic managerial move that the manager made.

The manager didn't bother to make the move before the next batter was all set for the first pitch, then hobbled out there late to call an NBA TO.

   27. McCoy Posted: August 17, 2022 at 08:39 PM (#6092087)
Baker was pretty darn bad in Chicago. If you want to blame someone other than Baker for it then blame MacPhail who gave Baker too much power on that team.

Baker does a lot better when he's just the old man in the dugout as opposed to the guy deciding who is on the roster and how they'll get used.
   28. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: August 18, 2022 at 11:50 AM (#6092151)

Yeah I can't see anything here. Some fan was yelling a fairly basic managerial move that the manager made.

I agree.
   29. sunday silence (again) Posted: August 18, 2022 at 12:44 PM (#6092154)
in the Reddit thread someone claims his dad told Rizzo to just relax in the box in the 2016 NLCS and then Rizzo hits a HR and breaks out of his slump and goes on a 7-14 tear w/ 2 HRs. Look at the first gif:



https://www.mlb.com/cut4/rizzo-celebrates-nlcs-game-4-hr-with-bryant-c206657040
   30. ReggieThomasLives Posted: August 19, 2022 at 02:02 PM (#6092276)
Yeah I can't see anything here. Some fan was yelling a fairly basic managerial move that the manager made.


Please shut the heck up. When given a choice between printing the truth or the legend, always print the legend.
   31. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: August 19, 2022 at 11:00 PM (#6092329)
TLR intentionally walked a batter tonight on a 1-2 count. It was his own idea.
   32. Itchy Row Posted: August 20, 2022 at 03:42 AM (#6092343)
If La Russa isn’t locked up for his own good, one day he’ll walk the first 36 hitters to prove how smart he is.
   33. sunday silence (again) Posted: August 21, 2022 at 05:34 PM (#6092500)
I should have mentioned in that first gif Rizzo ends up pointing to the stands so...

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