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Monday, June 30, 2008

Watchdog: Best: Keith Hernandez takes issue with Jose Reyes’ pouting

YESTERDAY a Teenage Rebel… TODAY a Mad Dog target!

Cohen: Reyes has taken his glove off and is standing hands on hips out there, with the glove on the ground. That’s something you don’t like to see. That’s not a good look.

Hernandez: Well, he’s got to get over that. Enough babying going on now. He’s a grown man, he’s been around a long enough time. Take off the kid gloves.

Here is what they said in the bottom of the seventh, following a shot of Reyes picking up his glove and sunglasses after throwing them to the ground, then trotting slowly off the field:

Hernandez: There’s one thing you have to do when you’re an everyday player. It’s not that tough. You run onto the field, and you run off of the field, to start the inning and at the end of the inning, no matter if you hit a triple with the bases loaded or you made an error or you struck out. It’s a simple thing to do, just run off the field, don’t walk off the field. Nothing looks worse than a team walking off a field.

Cohen: The question is, what was he upset about? Was he upset about making the bad play or about the fact the error was charged to him?

Hernandez: I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he’s mad at himself. I’m hopeful that that’s what it is.

Repoz Posted: June 30, 2008 at 06:20 PM | 55 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mets

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   1. Xander Posted: June 30, 2008 at 06:29 PM (#2837628)
1. Kit gloves.
2. The running off the field thing is stupid.
   2. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 30, 2008 at 06:29 PM (#2837631)
Geez, that's not that bad at all. Reyes looked like a little leaguer out there, what was Hernandez supposed to say?
   3. Dudefella Posted: June 30, 2008 at 06:33 PM (#2837636)
1. Kit gloves.


No, "kid" is correct. Refers to gloves made from the skin of young goats, AKA "kids."
   4. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: June 30, 2008 at 06:43 PM (#2837654)
On the other hand, it is a "kit bag", but as Snoopy observed, they never actually explained how you're supposed to pack your troubles into it.
   5. Spencer Benedict Posted: June 30, 2008 at 06:55 PM (#2837665)
I think it was the same telecast that Cohen referred to the Singleton-Staub trade as one fo the best in Mets history. This is what caught my attention as I don't think there was any season after the trade in which Staub was actually better than Singleton.
   6. Charter Member of the Jesus Melendez Fanclub Posted: June 30, 2008 at 06:56 PM (#2837667)
But Rusty was a True Met. Was Singleton a True Met? Of course not.
   7. Charter Member of the Jesus Melendez Fanclub Posted: June 30, 2008 at 06:58 PM (#2837668)
Running off the field is not stupid.
   8. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 30, 2008 at 07:00 PM (#2837674)
I think it was the same telecast that Cohen referred to the Singleton-Staub trade as one fo the best in Mets history. This is what caught my attention as I don't think there was any season after the trade in which Staub was actually better than Singleton.

He really said that? Because that...that just isn't right. I'm not a Mets fan and I can think of much better trades than that.
   9. The Buddy Biancalana Hit Counter Posted: June 30, 2008 at 07:04 PM (#2837677)
Failed pedantry is my very favorite kind.
   10. rlc Posted: June 30, 2008 at 07:06 PM (#2837679)
I don't think there was any season after the trade in which Staub was actually better than Singleton

But Rusty is better at seasoning - he'll garontee it!
   11. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 30, 2008 at 07:07 PM (#2837681)
Failed pedantry is my very favorite kind.

I've learned the hard way to google before submitting around here. There's always someone somewhere with a big nose who knows, especially at BBTF.
   12. flournoy Posted: June 30, 2008 at 07:10 PM (#2837684)
There are two exceptions to the running off the field rule. 1) The first baseman or third baseman, depending on where the dugout is, can walk off the field if he's less than ten or fifteen feet away. 2) The pitcher never has to run off the field.

EDIT: I will add a third exception - after a particularly long inning, the catcher can walk if he wants to.
   13. Grumbledook Posted: June 30, 2008 at 07:11 PM (#2837685)
I think it was the same telecast that Cohen referred to the Singleton-Staub trade as one fo the best in Mets history. This is what caught my attention as I don't think there was any season after the trade in which Staub was actually better than Singleton.


Exactly. I recall seeing an article in which the author used sabermetric methods (probably win shares) to determine the worst trades in Mets history, and the Staub trade was in the Top 10 (Mets also gave up Mike Jorgensen and Tim Foli). It wasn't as bad is Ryan-Fregosi or Kazmir-Zambrano, but it was still a pretty bad trade.

I was trying to think of a really good Mets trade that they failed to mention, and off the top of my head, I came up with Rick Anderson and Ed Hearn for David Cone. A triple-A journeyman pitcher and a backup catcher for a Cy Young-caliber pitcher. You don't see trades like that every day.
   14. JPWF13 Posted: June 30, 2008 at 07:24 PM (#2837699)
He really said that? Because that...that just isn't right.


but, unlike the Amos Otis and Nolan Ryan trades which occurred around the same time, the Mets actually got back something of value on the Singleton/Staub trade...

but they still lost the trade...

Staub had just put up 3 straight seasons of OPS+s of 166, 139 and 147, plus he was only 28 (The Mets have a habit of getting "stars" in their 30s with the oblivious expectation that no decline would be forthcoming) Singleton was 25, coming off a half season at age 24 where he'd OPS'd 120 (which in Shea in 1971 didn't look like it was that good)... Singleton had also slugged .703 in his last stint in the International League, but the Mets, like most of MLB back then, probably paid little heed (Weaver + the Orioles probably noticed however).

Staub then hit 137 in half a season for the Mets, Singleton 119 in a full season
Staub hit 118, Singleton 148
Staub 112, Singleton 110
Staub 131, singleton 153
Lolich 102, Singleton 132 (Staub hit 137 for Detroit)
Lolich "retired" and the Mets had nothing left from the trade, Singleton was very productive for a few more seasons...

Staub was a very good hitter (similar to Singleton actually- not quite as good), bad at most everything else (ditto Singleton).

The Mets had a choice between an established star and a substantially similar, but "unproven" player, several years younger- the Mets go for the "star" almost every time- and they get burnt more often than not. On Staub they didn't get burnt too badly, so it's almost a win in that sense- plus on the day it was made, unlike the Amos Otis, Nolan Ryan, Kazmir... trades, it was an eminently justifiable swap- Stab WAS an elite hitter, and he was less than 30.
   15. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 30, 2008 at 07:25 PM (#2837700)
Getting Ron Darling and Walt Terrell for Lee Mazzilli was a nice one, especially since they then turned Walt Terrell into Howard Johnson.
   16. Halofan Posted: June 30, 2008 at 07:28 PM (#2837703)
The Mets have GOT to ditch the microscope.
   17. JPWF13 Posted: June 30, 2008 at 07:35 PM (#2837710)
Getting Ron Darling and Walt Terrell for Lee Mazzilli was a nice one, especially since they then turned Walt Terrell into Howard Johnson.


and the Keith Hernandez trade
and the Sid Fernandez/ Carlos Diaz/Bob Bailor trade...

The common denominator on the really good Met trades seems to be... Frank Cashen (who unfortunately seemed to lose the touch his last few years, Cone was probably his last good move)
   18. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 30, 2008 at 07:39 PM (#2837716)
Honest question: Wasn't Hernandez the one who left the dugout for the clubhouse after making the second out in the last of the tenth inning of the Buckner game? I'm not sure of this, but if he was, did he at least hustle down there?
   19. Boots Day Posted: June 30, 2008 at 07:48 PM (#2837722)
That's what I was just about to say, Andy: The proper procedure for when you get mad at yourself on the ballfield is to head for the clubhouse and have a butt. Just as long as you run there.
   20. aleskel Posted: June 30, 2008 at 07:49 PM (#2837724)
Honest question: Wasn't Hernandez the one who left the dugout for the clubhouse after making the second out in the last of the tenth inning of the Buckner game? I'm not sure of this, but if he was, did he at least hustle down there?

he admits to being in Davey Johnson's office, chain-smoking, and refused to get up when the pre-Buckner error rally started thinking that his being there was good luck. Kevin Mitchell was also there making plane reservations.
   21. Chris Dial Posted: June 30, 2008 at 07:49 PM (#2837726)
Purportedly, Hernandez was already in teh whirlpool with a beer, and he admits it. He jumped out and got dressed before it went down, I think.
   22. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: June 30, 2008 at 07:50 PM (#2837727)
Another great trade: Billy Beane and others for Tim Teufel! All right, not that great but Teufel put some good work in for the Mets. Everything went right on the way to building that 1986 team, didn't it?
   23. Milford Blatti Posted: June 30, 2008 at 08:18 PM (#2837762)
I was listening on the radio and didn't see; but the radio guys spent two innings moaning about this. It was astonishing. They had stopped actually calling the game in order to detail the litany of problems with what Reyes had just done. I was wondering what was happening on the field; but could only learn why, had Ryan Church not made a routine catch or had Carlos Delgado misinterpreted Reyes' tantrum, such an act could have disastrous consequences.

Of course what Reyes did had no effect on the outcome of the game.

I'm honestly a bit startled by the teams with broadcast teams that appear openly hostile to the players they cover. In a recent Reds game, after Dunn struck out with a runner on 3rd and one out, Brenneman shrieked "you can't hide him in the lineup, no matter what you do you can't hide him!"

I don't want to argue for a Waldmanesque blind assent to team policy and personnel; but why employ people clearly and unreasonably hostile to your team, especially when their hostility appears to get in the way of the primary focus of their jobs, i.e. telling me what's happening in the game?
   24. Hubie Brooks (Not Really) Posted: June 30, 2008 at 08:31 PM (#2837779)
Everyday it is some new "controversy". This was not that big of a deal.
   25. Lassus Posted: June 30, 2008 at 08:40 PM (#2837795)
Well-said, 23.
   26. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: June 30, 2008 at 08:49 PM (#2837808)
I was listening on the radio and didn't see; but the radio guys spent two innings moaning about this.

Two innings? It seemed like they didn't stop talking about it for the rest of the game!

This was the first time in a while that I had listened to the Mets on the radio, but one of the guys (the one who kept bringing up the Reyes thing) was simply atrocious. An embarrassment.
   27. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: June 30, 2008 at 08:52 PM (#2837813)

I don't want to argue for a Waldmanesque blind assent to team policy and personnel; but why employ people clearly and unreasonably hostile to your team, especially when their hostility appears to get in the way of the primary focus of their jobs, i.e. telling me what's happening in the game?


The Reds seem to only hire announcers that hate their own players. I don't know why, but I do know if you listen long enough you will begin to believe Adam Dunn is a bum and Edwin Encarnacion is the worst player ever to step on the field.
   28. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 30, 2008 at 09:17 PM (#2837847)
Purportedly, Hernandez was already in teh whirlpool with a beer, and he admits it.

Hernandez had some mealy-mouthed line about realizing he'd chosen "the lucky chair" and not wanting to leave it while the rally was continuing. Uh huh. And Roberto Duran said "no mas" because it was the eighth round and 8 has magic powers.
   29. Lassus Posted: June 30, 2008 at 09:22 PM (#2837850)
Hernandez had some mealy-mouthed line about realizing he'd chosen "the lucky chair" and not wanting to leave it while the rally was continuing. Uh huh.

Honestly, that part I believe and have no problem with - superstition is powerful stuff. It's the unwillingness to admit that what LED you to leave in the first place was entirely bush league beyond anything Reyes did.
   30. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: June 30, 2008 at 09:23 PM (#2837852)
Another great trade: Billy Beane and others for Tim Teufel! All right, not that great but Teufel put some good work in for the Mets. Everything went right on the way to building that 1986 team, didn't it?


Billy Beane should not have made that trade.

Best Regards

Joe
   31. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 30, 2008 at 09:58 PM (#2837873)
I was listening on the radio and didn't see; but the radio guys spent two innings moaning about this.

Kay and Singleton seemed to dwell on it for nearly that long themselves, though after the first couple of comments it was mostly Kay keeping it going. I wasn't paying that much attention to the details, and I could be wrong, but I thought they were saying that Reyes was mostly complaining about the scorer's decision to give him an error on the play, which would have been about as bush league as it gets.
   32. billh Posted: June 30, 2008 at 10:14 PM (#2837886)
I liked this trade

John Olerud -
December 20, 1996: Traded by the Toronto Blue Jays with cash to the New York Mets for Robert Person.
   33. Benji Posted: June 30, 2008 at 10:21 PM (#2837893)
I keep wondering who the Keith Hernandez was that Whitey Herzog demanded out of St Louis. (some claim it was all about the drug rumors, unfortunately Whitey isn't one of them)

And if that had been Wright that threw his glove and made faces, it would have been trumpeted by Cohen and Keith as David being a "team man" and "gamer". Or if it was Jeter.
   34. Freeballin' (Tales of Met Power) Posted: July 01, 2008 at 12:51 AM (#2838181)

I was trying to think of a really good Mets trade that they failed to mention, and off the top of my head, I came up with Rick Anderson and Ed Hearn for David Cone. A triple-A journeyman pitcher and a backup catcher for a Cy Young-caliber pitcher. You don't see trades like that every day.


They did mention the Cone trade.
   35. Freeballin' (Tales of Met Power) Posted: July 01, 2008 at 12:54 AM (#2838189)
Getting Ron Darling and Walt Terrell for Lee Mazzilli was a nice one, especially since they then turned Walt Terrell into Howard Johnson.


They mentioned the Mazzilli trade too (though they did not extrapolate to HoJo).
   36. Freeballin' (Tales of Met Power) Posted: July 01, 2008 at 12:54 AM (#2838191)

and the Keith Hernandez trade


And this one.
   37. Bruce Markusen Posted: July 01, 2008 at 02:01 AM (#2838388)
I didn't see the play involving Reyes, but I heard at least one sportscaster say that he thought that Reyes was upset with Delgado for not catching the throw? Is that a possibility here?

If Reyes threw down his glove because he was upset with Delgado, then he deserves to be ripped for what he did. If he was upset with the official scorer, then he deserves to be ripped for that, too. If he was just upset with himself, then it becomes a bit more understandable.

I don't really understand the criticism about him not running off the field. I've never heard that it's considered proper baseball etiquette to run off the field after the third out. I guess most outfielders have to run because of the distance to the dugout, but I don't see a big deal with the infielders walking off.
   38. PerroX Posted: July 01, 2008 at 02:37 AM (#2838472)
Listening to XM this season, almost every announcer stops telling what's happening on the field for a couple of batters. You don't know who's at the plate, what the count is... nada.

I speculate that too many of these guys forget they're not doing tv.

Manuel needs to take a strop if not the razor to Reyes.
   39. Darren Posted: July 01, 2008 at 02:55 AM (#2838500)
Running off the field? Does anyone run off the field? Doesn't "slow trot" better describe what 95 percent of ballplayers do between innings? I hope for Reyes's sake he gets traded off the idiot Mets. He's developing into their whipping boy, much in the way ARod is for the Yanks.
   40. billyshears Posted: July 01, 2008 at 04:20 AM (#2838585)
Everything went right on the way to building that 1986 team, didn't it?


Bob Ojeda for Calvin Schiraldi worked out pretty well for Mets as well. On both ends.
   41. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: July 01, 2008 at 02:47 PM (#2838779)
I'm still waiting to see a pitcher run off the field.
   42. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: July 01, 2008 at 02:54 PM (#2838792)
I'm still waiting to see a pitcher run off the field.


I can't swear he does it after every inning, but Ollie Perez trots off the field (and jumps the first base line) at a pretty good clip.
   43. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: July 01, 2008 at 03:02 PM (#2838799)
I can't swear he does it after every inning, but Ollie Perez trots off the field (and jumps the first base line) at a pretty good clip.
If you were pitching like Perez has most of this year, you'd be in a hurry to get off the field too.
   44. Conor Posted: July 01, 2008 at 03:02 PM (#2838802)

I can't swear he does it after every inning, but Ollie Perez trots off the field (and jumps the first base line) at a pretty good clip.


During the game Sunday, I noticed one inning he actually messed up his jump over the first base line, and didn't jump until after he already was touching the first base line. I have no idea what this means.
   45. flournoy Posted: July 01, 2008 at 03:08 PM (#2838806)
I'm still waiting to see a pitcher run off the field.


As I alluded in post 12, the rule doesn't apply to pitchers. (Though you get the occasional oddball pitcher who does run off the field. Carlos Perez comes to mind.) And it's never really a run, just a jog.
   46. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: July 01, 2008 at 03:56 PM (#2838860)
turk wendell.
   47. Shooty would run in but these bone spurs hurt! Posted: July 01, 2008 at 04:00 PM (#2838866)
turk wendell.

Wasn't there a famous brawl when the pitcher ran off the field like a little girl because the hitter was chasing him? I am completely blanking on the details.
   48. bunyon Posted: July 01, 2008 at 04:03 PM (#2838868)
Running off the field was important back when there weren't four minutes of commercials between half innings. I'm guessing David Wells could walk from the center field wall to the buffet table and finish a plate or two between half innings now. As younger players come up who are used to the long interval, running off the field will become less commonplace. And it will really piss off guys old enough to remember, like me. I just hope I continue to remember to be angry at the ######## who make the break longer and longer.
   49. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: July 01, 2008 at 04:45 PM (#2838923)
I just hope I continue to remember to be angry at the ######## who make the break longer and longer.

Some day baseball will have two-day test matches.

turk wendell.

I overstated my case, but still, I won't give you Wendell, he was certifiable, a total nut job.
   50. billyshears Posted: July 01, 2008 at 07:28 PM (#2839119)
Good blog post from Joel Sherman on this:

.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
   51. Bob T Posted: July 01, 2008 at 07:32 PM (#2839124)
Wasn't there a famous brawl when the pitcher ran off the field like a little girl because the hitter was chasing him? I am completely blanking on the details.


That was Guillermo Mota in a spring training game for the Expos running away from Mike Piazza of the Mets.
   52. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 01, 2008 at 07:39 PM (#2839128)
RE: #51

Billy, that link allows us to e-mail the blog.
   53. The usual palaver and twaddle (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: July 01, 2008 at 07:41 PM (#2839129)
Wasn't there a famous brawl when the pitcher ran off the field like a little girl because the hitter was chasing him? I am completely blanking on the details.


I think it was in the '50's, at the Polo Grounds. The pitcher was NYG's Ruben Gomez and the wronged batter was MIL's Joe Adcock.

I think.
   54. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: July 01, 2008 at 07:47 PM (#2839133)
The correct answer is Rod Allen in Japan.

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