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Thursday, August 27, 2009

WEEI: Minihane: “Jim Rice couldn’t carry Derek Jeter’s jock.”

Take it away Hot Lips Minihane!

Minihane,

“Jim Rice couldn’t carry Derek Jeter’s jock.”

Is this a joke? I’m sure you don’t remember 1978 but it is the most dominant season of my lifetime. From 1975-86 Rice was the best hitter in baseball. Can that ever be said about Jeter?

And why would a WEEI writer side with the Yankees over the Red Sox?

A: Look, there are stands I have made in my life that aren’t popular. I still contend, for example, that if Anne Hathaway circa 2007 were in my high school class at Winchester in 1992 she wouldn’t have cracked the top 20 on my female chart (which I did keep, by the way. And updated weekly for a while. What a creepy stalker I was.) Totally overrated. Pale and ducklike. I feel that everyone knows this and just won’t admit it. Though she still has my favorite nude scene in any gay cowboy movie.

What else? I hate M*A*S*H., can barely watch an episode. Give me Three’s Company or Welcome Back, Kotter any day of the week. I’ll put a good Pizza Hut up against any pizza place anywhere in the world. I can’t get through one page of any William Faulkner novel.

The point, I guess, is this: I’m not afraid to take on the tough topics. You hear that, Deval Patrick? Appoint me. I’m ready to serve if asked. You think Ed Markey is willing to admit that he thinks “Listen to Your Heart” by Roxette is a masterful rumination on love and loss?

But Derek Jeter over Jim Rice? That’s not a gutsy take.

Jim Rice hit more home runs and drove in more runs than Derek Jeter. He was a better power hitter. Significantly, even. Okay. But it’s not a stretch to suggest that Derek Jeter is significantly better at EVERYTHING ELSE.

Repoz Posted: August 27, 2009 at 08:44 PM | 326 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: media, red sox, yankees

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   1. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 27, 2009 at 08:56 PM (#3307045)
A: Look, there are stands I have made in my life that aren’t popular. I still contend, for example, that if Anne Hathaway circa 2007 were in my high school class at Winchester in 1992 she wouldn’t have cracked the top 20 on my female chart (which I did keep, by the way. And updated weekly for a while. What a creepy stalker I was.) Totally overrated. Pale and ducklike. I feel that everyone knows this and just won’t admit it.


Fully agree. She was cute in her first movie or two, but then something happened and she did indeed become pale and ducklike.

What else? I hate M*A*S*H., can barely watch an episode.


Fully agree; I can't get through an episode.

I never "got" the appeal of Cheers either but I could get through an episode, if just barely.

Give me Three’s Company or Welcome Back, Kotter any day of the week.


Fully agree.
   2. Steve Phillips' Hot Cougar (DrStankus) Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:09 PM (#3307063)
I was just fine til he got to Pizza Hut.
   3. wjones Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:09 PM (#3307064)
What else? I hate M*A*S*H., can barely watch an episode.


Fully agree; I can't get through an episode.

I never "got" the appeal of Cheers either but I could get through an episode, if just barely.


Give me Three’s Company or Welcome Back, Kotter any day of the week.


Fully agree.


Sadly shakes head.
   4. wjones Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:13 PM (#3307066)
Oh yeah, Pizza Hut? There are times when I've got a very tasty pizza. Then the very next time it wasn't worth biting into. The very advantage of chain restaurants is supposed to be dependability, i.e., the Big Mac may taste just like the container but at least you know what you are getting. Pizza Hut can't even get that right!
   5. JPWF13 Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:15 PM (#3307067)
I’m sure you don’t remember 1978 but it is the most dominant season of my lifetime.


Born 1978, died 1978?

Even going by BA-AVG-RBI, George Foster in 1977 was better, before we even get to Mattingly 1985/86 or the flood of 50 homer seasons in the PEd Era....

From 1975-86 Rice was the best hitter in baseball.

No he wasn't
Jim Rice hit more home runs and drove in more runs than Derek Jeter. He was a better power hitter. Significantly, even. Okay. But it’s not a stretch to suggest that Derek Jeter is significantly better at EVERYTHING ELSE.


Agreed
   6. RJ in TO Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:21 PM (#3307072)
I was just fine til he got to Pizza Hut.


Yeah, that's where he lost me too. Pizza Hut does something absolutely hideous to my inner workings. As near as I can tell, that stuff is made of concentrated evil.
   7. SteveF Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:21 PM (#3307073)
I was never a big fan of Catch-22. I'll take a Bazooka Joe comic or People magazine over that pile of self-important rubbish!
   8. Obama Bomaye Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:24 PM (#3307076)
Hathaway is not attractive at all. Got a body, I guess.

Can't stand MASH.

Pizza Hut is fine I guess. I'm not a foodie. But there's definitely better pizza.
   9. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:26 PM (#3307078)
Love the MASH, even with all the preachy liberalness.
   10. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:30 PM (#3307082)
Maybe Derek Jeter's jock is just really heavy. That would explain both Jim Rice's inability to carry it AND Jeter's historical range factors.
   11. BDC Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:32 PM (#3307084)
There's no accounting for taste in comedy; the Three Stooges crack me up, but I've never quite gotten Laurel & Hardy, who would appear to be in the same genre and have a little more artistic credibility.

That said, MASH at least from seasons 2 through 5 was exceptionally well-written, and Cheers had a quite amazing ability to be well-written throughout its run, somehow surviving a lot of departures and additions and remaining very sharp. You can still watch both of them and enjoy them.

Three's Company and Welcome Back Kotter were built around mugging (though John Ritter was very good at that) and catchphrases, and they really haven't dated very well. I was a fan of both, mind you, and I watched them throughout their first run. One of the Sweathogs was even an early mentor of mine, which may explain my intellectual development. But they're just not very good TV in the long run. Your mileage may absolutely vary.

Jeter, now, yes, he's a lot better than Rice.
   12. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:32 PM (#3307085)
I was just fine til he got to Pizza Hut.


Fully agree.

You will note I didn't sign on to his Pizza Hut comments.
   13. cardsfanboy Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:33 PM (#3307087)
Whether you like or hate Mash shouldn't avoid the fact that he said he would rather watch Threes Company. You only have to watch the show once to know the story for every episode. Even Republicans/Fox News has more originality.
   14. PepTech Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:33 PM (#3307088)
The best thing about MASH was the Henry-Radar relationship. The worst thing about MASH was Alan Alda.

Winchester couldn't carry Burns' jock.
   15. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:33 PM (#3307089)
For good writing, I'll stack Frasier up against any sitcom.
   16. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:35 PM (#3307091)
I'm apparently the anti-Ray. (I'd never seek out MASH, but it was better than average.)
   17. Misirlou gave her his Vincent to ride Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:37 PM (#3307093)
The best thing about MASH was the Henry-Radar relationship.


"We were out of ice, so I used Bourbon"
   18. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:38 PM (#3307095)
Acknowledging that you're being a creepy stalker while engaging in the behavior of a creepy stalker in no way frees you from the moral approbation due creepy stalkers.
   19. RJ in TO Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:38 PM (#3307097)
For good writing, I'll stack Frasier up against any sitcom.


Right up until the last couple seasons which were only greenlit because everything else NBC came up with that season completely bombed. Arrested Development was also excellent, but it only had to keep up that level for three seasons.

Personally, I prefer the writing of a lot of the British sitcoms (Black Adder, Father Ted, Fawlty Towers, The League of Gentlemen), but there's a huge advantage in terms of quality to them only having to produce 6 episodes a season.
   20. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:39 PM (#3307100)
You only have to watch the show once to know the story for every episode.


I predict someone will get the wrong idea about something in the next Three's Company episode.

Dukes of Hazzard was classic for a predictable storyline:

1. Boss and Roscoe try to get the Duke boys (*); a car chase is involved.
2. Boss hires some crooks to do something crooked.
3. The crooks end up double crossing Boss.
4. The Duke boys end up having to clean up the mess.

(*) And since when does successfully outrunning the cops mean that the entire issue is over and that one doesn't get arrested later for outrunning the cops?

(And since when is outrunning the cops a realistic occurrence?)

I also love in the typical cop shows like T.J. Hooker that when the suspect gets away -- Hooker gets cut off by a bus or whatever -- that's the end of the chase and no other units or police helicopters are around to help out. Hooker just slams his fist on the hood of the car and vows to get the "dirtbags" and the chase is over -- even though only 15 extra seconds have elapsed.
   21. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:42 PM (#3307102)
Right up until the last couple seasons


Fully agreed.

Didn't they learn from Who's The Boss that you don't actually let Niles and Daphne get together?
   22. The Interdimensional Council of Rickey!'s Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:47 PM (#3307105)
And since when does successfully outrunning the cops mean that the entire issue is over and that one doesn't get arrested later for outrunning the cops?

The Dukes of Hazzard was a farce that was calling back to a historical era where, if the cops didn't catch the bootleggers before they got into the hills, the cops didn't go after them because the bootleggers were "the law" in the hills.

I also love in the typical cop shows like T.J. Hooker that when the suspect gets away -- Hooker gets cut off by a bus or whatever -- that's the end of the chase and no other units or police helicopters are around to help out.

How prevalent were helicopter assists for routine police pursuits in the '70s? My gut is that the sort of pursuits we see today didn't happen prior to the slow militarization of domestic police forces beginning in the late 70s and taking off during Reagan's "war on crime/drugs."
   23. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:51 PM (#3307108)
Sam, Hooker (love that name) was early 80s. Maybe you're right. Still, he doesn't really get an assist from other units. Despite the fact that the police chase went on for like two hours, weaving up this street and down that one. At the end of the chase it's still just Hooker and Romano in pursuit.
   24. Kurt Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:56 PM (#3307112)
I liked Frasier, but really it was a witty Three's Company. Oh, this is the episode where Frasier and Niles have some sort of misunderstanding. Hilarity ensues.
   25. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 27, 2009 at 09:59 PM (#3307116)
Maybe Derek Jeter's jock is just really heavy. That would explain both Jim Rice's inability to carry it AND Jeter's historical range factors.

Food for Thought. Those are the most logical words I've ever read that were written by an Atlanta Braves fan.

----------------------

There's no accounting for taste in comedy; the Three Stooges crack me up, but I've never quite gotten Laurel & Hardy, who would appear to be in the same genre and have a little more artistic credibility.

Bob, the Exhausted Ruler would like a word with you.
   26. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 27, 2009 at 10:01 PM (#3307118)
Never liked the Stooges. Love The Honeymooners though.
   27. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: August 27, 2009 at 10:04 PM (#3307121)
Jim Rice had the most feared jock from 1975 until 1986.
   28. AJMcCringleberry Posted: August 27, 2009 at 10:07 PM (#3307123)
Born 1978, died 1978?

Guidry > Rice
   29. cardsfanboy Posted: August 27, 2009 at 10:14 PM (#3307129)
I liked Frasier, but really it was a witty Three's Company. Oh, this is the episode where Frasier and Niles have some sort of misunderstanding. Hilarity ensues.

in many instances yes, my problem with Frasier is that it is a show about a thoroughly unlikeable buffoon. I just can't get into a show in which the main characters have no redeeming qualities, it's not like he was actually intelligent or moral or ethical etc. He was an egocentric idiot that had a problem with accepting his obvious limitations. (I have the same problem with the British comedies that people love so much, why watch a show about people you just don't like? that you wouldn't want as a friend)
   30. Obama Bomaye Posted: August 27, 2009 at 10:20 PM (#3307132)
Word, I loved Cheers but hated Frasier.
   31. Hugh Jorgan Posted: August 27, 2009 at 10:28 PM (#3307139)
You know what goes pretty well in Australia....Scrubs. We like Scrubs over here and reckon its one of the cleverest U.S. shows outside of the obvious like Arrested Development.
MASH is for baby boomers, Harvey's may have enjoyed it, the rest of us I'm thinking are 44 and under.
Stooges are silly, but fun.
And no one on this site takes Rice over Jeter...ever (and I'm a Red Sox fan)
   32. TOLAXOR Posted: August 27, 2009 at 10:30 PM (#3307141)
I ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT ALDA'S SCHTICK WAS JUST BEING THE AGNOSTIC, POST-PROTESTANT VERSION OF WOODY ALLEN...
   33. TOLAXOR Posted: August 27, 2009 at 10:35 PM (#3307142)
ALSO, RE: RICE -

RICKEY NELSON HENLEY HENDERSON'S 1985 SAYS "HI" AND SO DOES RICKEY!!!
   34. Lassus Posted: August 27, 2009 at 10:40 PM (#3307147)
Frasier couldn't carry WKRP's jock.
   35. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: August 27, 2009 at 10:41 PM (#3307148)
in many instances yes, my problem with Frasier is that it is a show about a thoroughly unlikeable buffoon. I just can't get into a show in which the main characters have no redeeming qualities, it's not like he was actually intelligent or moral or ethical etc. He was an egocentric idiot that had a problem with accepting his obvious limitations.

I remember a similar program. It ran for eight years, starting in the early part of this decade. It sucked.
   36. JPWF13 Posted: August 27, 2009 at 10:43 PM (#3307149)
(And since when is outrunning the cops a realistic occurrence?)


It depends on what part of the country you are in.

People try all the time in LA on the freeways, they get caught.

You can't even get a block in NYC so almost no one tries, although amazingly enough 1-2 years ago a nutjob mowed down a few pedestrians in times square, made it to the tunnel and Jersey... but of course he was picked up the next day because they had his plates and knew where he lived...

so obviously Roscoe did not know where the Duke boys lived.
   37. Lassus Posted: August 27, 2009 at 10:45 PM (#3307150)
in many instances yes, my problem with Frasier is that it is a show about a thoroughly unlikeable buffoon. I just can't get into a show in which the main characters have no redeeming qualities, it's not like he was actually intelligent or moral or ethical etc. He was an egocentric idiot that had a problem with accepting his obvious limitations.


Helllllllooooo All in the Family. Despite repeated efforts, it just made me ill to watch.
   38. TedBerg Posted: August 27, 2009 at 10:48 PM (#3307151)
After a few weeks in China, I was desperate for food I could identify, so I went to a Pizza Hut. They're everywhere there, and they're sort of fancy by Chinese standards.

Turns out Pizza Hut pizza in China tastes just like Pizza Hut pizza everywhere else: terrible.

I've always found Welcome Back, Cotter hilarious, but I think most of that is the pants they wore.
   39. Srul Itza Posted: August 27, 2009 at 10:52 PM (#3307153)
Alda didn't become really preachy until after the first couple of seasons. In the beginning, there was a lot less of that, and a lot more emphasis on "mad cap antics".

If you weren't alive when it first came on, in the midst of Viet Nam, Watergate and all that, you can't fully appreciate the zeitgeist, with Korea standing in for Nam.

I sometimes have to force myself to remember that for a lot of people, Viet Nam is history that they did not experience. There have been controversial wars since then, of course, but you can draw all the parallels you want, and it still won't be the same, for a variety of reasons but mainly because there is no draft, as there was with Korea and Viet Nam.

As far out on a limb as Alda may have eventurally crawled, in the aftermath of Nam, Watergate, Resignation and Pardon, the attitude was very much in line with the times.

As for the rest

-- Three Company's was terrible. Jiggle vision added to "queer jokes" added to frustrated wife jokes.

-- Welcome Back Kotter was better because as an ensemble because of Gabe Kaplan and the people he worked with, but it got old pretty quick, too. Then again, it did introduce us to John Travolta. On the other hand, it also introduced us to John Travolta. [Given how many careers he had, I could keep going.]

Pizza Hut? Pizza Hut!! For somebody who can get real pizza from Boston, RI or NY? He's just saying that to be controversial, or to establish his credentials as the man with the least pizza sense in the known universe. I mean, PIZZA HUT!!?!?!

Oh, and Jeter is so much a better player over all than Rice, and so much more clearly a Hall of Famer, that it is not even worth discussing.
   40. Lassus Posted: August 27, 2009 at 10:53 PM (#3307154)
Turns out Pizza Hut pizza in China tastes just like Pizza Hut pizza everywhere else: terrible.

The McDonalds in Nanning (southern China) was pretty much indistinguishable from any McDonalds in America in decor and taste.
   41. Srul Itza Posted: August 27, 2009 at 10:53 PM (#3307156)
Helllllllooooo All in the Family. Despite repeated efforts, it just made me ill to watch.


Did you see it when it first came out, or only in re-runs?

You can't even get a block in NYC so almost no one tries


Not necessarily so. Do you remember when Big Paulie got hit outside Sparks Steakhouse. Major shooting in midtown at rush hour, they walk around the corner to a waiting car, get in and are gone.
   42. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 27, 2009 at 10:58 PM (#3307160)
in many instances yes, my problem with Frasier is that it is a show about a thoroughly unlikeable buffoon. I just can't get into a show in which the main characters have no redeeming qualities, it's not like he was actually intelligent or moral or ethical etc. He was an egocentric idiot that had a problem with accepting his obvious limitations.


I don't have this issue. I like shows that I'm entertained by; it doesn't matter whether I would like the characters... if they were real and I knew them
   43. Hot Wheeling American Posted: August 27, 2009 at 10:58 PM (#3307161)
Pizza Hut Japan: 646 calorie per slice pizza hut double roll

Which, of course, is not really a pizza.
   44. TomH Posted: August 27, 2009 at 10:59 PM (#3307162)
I liked AITFamily. Because my grandpa was SO Archie Bunker.
   45. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 27, 2009 at 10:59 PM (#3307163)
I just can't get into a show in which the main characters have no redeeming qualities, it's not like he was actually intelligent or moral or ethical etc. He was an egocentric idiot that had a problem with accepting his obvious limitations.


Helllllllooooo All in the Family. Despite repeated efforts, it just made me ill to watch.

I tried it about 2 or 3 times. You're absolutely right. It seems strange to say it, but one strong feature of AITF was that it was unfair to bigots. They should've turned the screenwriting over to Richard Pryor if they'd wanted anything to come of it beyond PC drivel. This was Hollywood pseudo-liberalism at its self-celebratory worst.
   46. cardsfanboy Posted: August 27, 2009 at 11:00 PM (#3307164)
Helllllllooooo All in the Family. Despite repeated efforts, it just made me ill to watch.


Did you see it when it first came out, or only in re-runs?


That is a big difference with All in the Family, it was groundbreaking, (same with MASH in my opinion) I can't watch All in the Family for reasons I mentioned about Frasier, but I appreciate how much it changed the landscape of tv.
   47. cardsfanboy Posted: August 27, 2009 at 11:08 PM (#3307166)

I don't have this issue. I like shows that I'm entertained by; it doesn't matter whether I would like the characters... if they were real and I knew them


a lot of people don't it's why shows like I love Lucy, Honeymooners, Sanford and Son, All in the Family, Frasier, etc have long runs, it's just something that I can't get into. I find myself hoping bad things happen to the characters(which is part of I guess the appeal of these shows) but it's not what I think of as a good aspect of a persons personality, rooting for bad things to happen to people, even in fiction, isn't something that I think of as uplifting as a human being.
   48. Lassus Posted: August 27, 2009 at 11:11 PM (#3307168)
Did you see it when it first came out, or only in re-runs?

It's close. I would have to say my first exposure could have pretty easily been the last year, 1979, but to be fair I probably really watched actual full episodes more the first years of syndication 1981 - 1983 or so.
   49. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 27, 2009 at 11:13 PM (#3307169)
I tried it about 2 or 3 times. You're absolutely right. It seems strange to say it, but one strong feature of AITF was that it was unfair to bigots. They should've turned the screenwriting over to Richard Pryor if they'd wanted anything to come of it beyond PC drivel. This was Hollywood pseudo-liberalism at its self-celebratory worst.


It was completely unrealistic -- which all sitcoms are, but, then, all sitcoms aren't held up as an accurate portrayal, in this case, of bigots and their families.

No bigot goes around saying bigoted things every 5 minutes, followed by a lengthy argument from his loved ones about how bigoted that person is, rinse and repeat.

I didn't particularly like the show, but I could watch it if there were nothing else on (unlike MASH) and be entertained by it.
   50. Srul Itza Posted: August 27, 2009 at 11:18 PM (#3307174)
Like most shows, the last years of All in the Family (now Archie Bunker's Place) were not very good. Jean Stapleton was gone for most of it -- and her Edith character was absoulutely necessary for it to work. Meathead was gone. Gloria was gone. George Jefferson and family had moved on up to the East Side.

By the 1980's, it was a different world, and the world has passed it by. That is the problem with a lot of topical shows.
   51. Srul Itza Posted: August 27, 2009 at 11:19 PM (#3307176)
my problem with Frasier is that it is a show about a thoroughly unlikeable buffoon.


How can you say that about Eddie. The show was about the dog, right? That's why I watched.
   52. Lassus Posted: August 27, 2009 at 11:22 PM (#3307179)
I liked AITFamily. Because my grandpa was SO Archie Bunker.

Well, the problem here is that he was like my grandfather as well, only about 100 times more civil to minorities than mine was to his own family.

This may be why I didn't like it. ;-)
   53. Srul Itza Posted: August 27, 2009 at 11:30 PM (#3307182)
No bigot goes around saying bigoted things every 5 minutes, followed by a lengthy argument from his loved ones about how bigoted that person is, rinse and repeat.


And you know this from your close personal association with bigots?
   54. Xpgdxbq Posted: August 27, 2009 at 11:32 PM (#3307183)

my problem with Frasier is that it is a show about a thoroughly unlikeable buffoon.


I guess you don't like The Office either.

I didn't mind frasier, but most shows with laugh tracks get on my nerves.
   55. I am going to be Frank Posted: August 27, 2009 at 11:33 PM (#3307185)
I like Pizza Hut. You would think being from Jersey that would heresy, but I don't consider Pizza Hut "pizza". I consider it greasy bread with toppings.
   56. UCCF Posted: August 27, 2009 at 11:42 PM (#3307194)
Frasier couldn't carry WKRP's jock.

When you throw Newsradio into the mix, Frasier becomes (at best) the 3rd best sitcom set in the radio industry. Always hated Frasier. Newsradio was the Arrested Development of its day - brilliant writing, no network support.
   57. cardsfanboy Posted: August 27, 2009 at 11:55 PM (#3307212)
I guess you don't like The Office either.


god I hate the office, there is a newer show called Better off Ted that is ten times funnier.
   58. Up2Drew Posted: August 27, 2009 at 11:58 PM (#3307215)
One of the hidden joys of re-watching Welcome Back Cotter is knowing now that Marcia Strassman, the actress who played Cotter's wife, Julie, absolutely detested Gabe Kaplan in real life. I kinda enjoy watching the cutesy-romantic domestic scenes and trying to notice if Stassman's is able to keep the poker face going the whole time....
   59. Meatwad Posted: August 28, 2009 at 12:03 AM (#3307221)
Newsradio would have lasted longer if hartmans wife hadnt gone off the deep end.
   60. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: August 28, 2009 at 12:04 AM (#3307223)
Speaking of shows with actresses who hated their sitcom love interests, Martin was another that was set in the radio industry. I liked Martin for about three episodes.
   61. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: August 28, 2009 at 12:13 AM (#3307238)
the Three Stooges crack me up, but I've never quite gotten Laurel & Hardy
I have seen enough Stooges in my life that I don't need to see them ever again but I loved them for a number of years. I wish that Curley could have had other opportunities, I think he was the near genius of the boys.
L&H;is just too slow paced for my tastes. I can see the funniness but it takes so long to get to the punch line that it's excruciating.

As stated by others, AITF and to a lesser extent, MASH, were groundbreaking and pushed the envelope. That said, I find them nearly unwatchable even though Edith was one of my favorite characters in sitcoms.
   62. AndrewJ Posted: August 28, 2009 at 12:18 AM (#3307245)
After the revolution/violent overthrow of the American government, I am claiming Anne Hathaway for myself.

One of the hidden joys of re-watching Welcome Back Cotter is knowing now that Marcia Strassman, the actress who played Cotter's wife, Julie, absolutely detested Gabe Kaplan in real life.

Yes and no. The E! True Hollywood Story profiled "Kotter" a few years back -- it turns out the show's producer, the late James Komack (back OT: He was one of Joe Hardy's Washington teammates in the stage and screen versions of "Damn Yankees"), played divide and conquer with the cast. He told Strassman that Kaplan was a conceited jerk, then told Kaplan that Strassman was a prima donna. Within a season or two nobody on that show trusted anybody else. It wasn't till the end of the show's run that Strassman went public with how insufferable Kaplan allegedly was. Kaplan was guesthosting "The Tonight Show" (and barely appearing on "Kotter" at all) and invited Strassman on one night where they publicly buried the hatchet.

On a lot of the other insipid 1970s sitcoms ("Happy Days," "Laverne and Shirley") you can at least see the cast enjoying each other's company. That you never saw with "Kotter."
   63. Guapo Posted: August 28, 2009 at 12:21 AM (#3307247)
No bigot goes around saying bigoted things every 5 minutes, followed by a lengthy argument from his loved ones about how bigoted that person is, rinse and repeat.

This pretty much describes every BTF thread involving race.
   64. Xpgdxbq Posted: August 28, 2009 at 12:22 AM (#3307248)

This pretty much describes every BTF thread involving race.


I didn't know ____'s loved one's posted here.
   65. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: August 28, 2009 at 12:23 AM (#3307249)
No bigot goes around saying bigoted things every 5 minutes, followed by a lengthy argument from his loved ones about how bigoted that person is, rinse and repeat.

This pretty much describes every BTF thread involving race.


I blame the ####### gypsies and midgets.
   66. Dan Szymborski Posted: August 28, 2009 at 12:30 AM (#3307256)
MASH seems far more dated than a lot of older comedies, like Three Stooges and Monty Python's Flying Circus. I think I like my comedies to either have random violence, surrealism, or nihilism (hello, It's Always Sunny...!)
   67. Steve Treder Posted: August 28, 2009 at 12:41 AM (#3307259)
I LOVED the Three Stooges when I was about five. Since about age, oh, twelve or so, not so much.

Laurel & Hardy totally rock.

W.C. Fields, even better. The Marx Brothers, better still.
   68. Dan Szymborski Posted: August 28, 2009 at 12:48 AM (#3307265)
I meant Three Stooges and Flying Circus as older comedies that aged well, not additional examples that didn't.

The Stooges had a timeless theme: beating the crap out of incompetent people.
   69. Kurt Posted: August 28, 2009 at 12:49 AM (#3307266)
I don't have this issue. I like shows that I'm entertained by; it doesn't matter whether I would like the characters... if they were real and I knew them

For me, it depends on whether the show "knows" its characters are awful. If so I can enjoy the show (Seinfeld, Frasier), if not, then forget it (Friends after the first season or so).


I didn't mind frasier, but most shows with laugh tracks get on my nerves.

That's the biggest problem with MASH for me. I can't think of a show with a more intrusive laugh track.
   70. Dan Szymborski Posted: August 28, 2009 at 12:55 AM (#3307270)

For me, it depends on whether the show "knows" its characters are awful. If so I can enjoy the show (Seinfeld, Frasier), if not, then forget it (Friends after the first season or so).


I agree. I like shows with awful people (I already mentioned It's Always Sunny), but if they show tries to make us think they're not awful, it always fails.
   71. Dan Szymborski Posted: August 28, 2009 at 12:56 AM (#3307271)
That's the biggest problem with MASH for me. I can't think of a show with a more intrusive laugh track.

All 1970s Hanna-Barbera cartoons. Wait Till Your Father Gets Home is completely ruined by the laughing.
   72. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 28, 2009 at 01:12 AM (#3307275)
Most of the time I don't notice the laugh track, but if one makes a point to focus on it, the presentation seems almost surreal.

It's also interesting to focus on the music in a drama or movie -- again, most of the time you don't realize it.

Also, most of the time you aren't completely conscious of bad acting, but sometimes it does hit you, say, in a movie, what a horrible acting performance a particular actor is doing in a given scene.
   73. Xpgdxbq Posted: August 28, 2009 at 01:20 AM (#3307278)
Pretty much the popular sitcoms on tV today, best I can tell.

I actually tried to get through Two and a half men not too long ago -- a show my friends and family mostly adore -- and just couldn't do it. The opening sequence basically had laughter after every single line; I found it unbearable.

I sometimes wonder how long these shows would be without laughtrack and commercials. Nine minutes is my estimate.
   74. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 28, 2009 at 01:22 AM (#3307279)
Yeah, I've tried to watch 2.5 Men. Couldn't get through it either.

Same with My Name is Earl.
   75. Xpgdxbq Posted: August 28, 2009 at 01:25 AM (#3307280)
It's odd -- I don't really find My Name is Earl funny, but I can watch it. How that works I don't really know.
   76. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: August 28, 2009 at 01:30 AM (#3307282)
The McDonalds in Nanning (southern China) was pretty much indistinguishable from any McDonalds in America in decor and taste.

The McDonald's in Oulu, Finland, was quite unlike any other I've seen. Two stories, chandeliers, marble tabletops, art hanging on the walls. It still tasted like McDonald's, but sure didn't look like one.

At least that was the story back in 1997 when I lived there.
   77. Scott Kazmir's breaking balls Posted: August 28, 2009 at 01:40 AM (#3307286)
Poll time:

Ginger or Mary Ann?
   78. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: August 28, 2009 at 01:51 AM (#3307289)
I tried it about 2 or 3 times. You're absolutely right. It seems strange to say it, but one strong feature of AITF was that it was unfair to bigots. They should've turned the screenwriting over to Richard Pryor if they'd wanted anything to come of it beyond PC drivel. This was Hollywood pseudo-liberalism at its self-celebratory worst.

It was completely unrealistic -- which all sitcoms are, but, then, all sitcoms aren't held up as an accurate portrayal, in this case, of bigots and their families.

No bigot goes around saying bigoted things every 5 minutes, followed by a lengthy argument from his loved ones about how bigoted that person is, rinse and repeat.


If anyone wants to see the most perfect sendup of buffoonish bigotry that ever appeared on television, check out the dialogue between Basil Fawlty and The Major in The Germans episode of Fawlty Towers. It's the part that begins with the Major saying "I knew a woman once" and ends with his saying "Good card players..."

Oh, and the link above is to the entire episode, courtesy of YouTube. Best half hour ever of comic TV.
   79. AndrewJ Posted: August 28, 2009 at 01:52 AM (#3307290)
Poll time:

Ginger or Mary Ann?


I forget which standup comedian said, "Ginger or Mary Ann? After enough time stuck on that island, Mrs. Howell would start to look sexy."
   80. Home Run Teal & Black Black Black Gone! Posted: August 28, 2009 at 01:56 AM (#3307291)
Dear god people: Winchester was 10x the "bad guy" of the trio than Frank was, and Colonel Potter was 100x the commander Henry was. There's no argument here. If you disagree, you're wrong. C'mon now. Don't make me take off my belt and then let the mood take me wherever it will from there.

That being said, this article is accurate because Jim Rice had his fucking hands cut off recently. I know, I know, it's gone underreported, but for the love of Christ let's give the man some space.
   81. Mike Emeigh Posted: August 28, 2009 at 01:56 AM (#3307292)
Ginger or Mary Ann?


Mrs. Thurston Howell :)

-- MWE
   82. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 28, 2009 at 02:00 AM (#3307297)
Poll time:

Ginger or Mary Ann?


Dawn Wells, whichever one she is.

Monica, Rachel, or Phoebe?
Chrissy, Janet, Terry, or Cindy?
Daphne or Roz?
Carol Seaver or Mallorey?
Rebecca or Diane?
Kelly or Peg Bundy?
Kim Cattrall, Kristin Davis, Cynthia Nixon, or SJP?
Claire, Denise, or Sondra Huxtable?
Rose, Sophia, Dorothy, or Blanche? :-) (Pretend you lost a bet)
Alice or Trixie?
Mary, Rhoda, or Phillis?
Kelly Kapowski, Jessie, or Lisa Turtle?
Hilary or Ashley?

The answers:

Monica, Rachel, or Phoebe? Rachel
Chrissy, Janet, Terry, or Cindy? Janet
Daphne or Roz? Roz
Carol Seaver or Mallorey Keaton? Mallory
Rebecca or Diane? Diane
Kelly or Peg Bundy? Kelly
Kim Cattrall, Kristin Davis, Cynthia Nixon, or SJP? Kim
Claire, Denise, or Sondra Huxtable? Denise
Rose, Sophia, Dorothy, or Blanche? Uh, Blanche
Alice or Trixie? Trixie
Mary, Rhoda, or Phillis? Mary
Kelly Kapowski, Jessie, or Lisa Turtle? Kelly
Hilary or Ashley Banks? Hilary
   83. RJ in TO Posted: August 28, 2009 at 02:01 AM (#3307298)
Poll time:

Ginger or Mary Ann?


Yes, I would pole both of them.
   84. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 28, 2009 at 02:02 AM (#3307299)
I forget which standup comedian said, "Ginger or Mary Ann? After enough time stuck on that island, Mrs. Howell would start to look sexy."


I've never watched a full episode, but if she is the old bag on the show, no, she wouldn't start to do anything of the sort.
   85. RJ in TO Posted: August 28, 2009 at 02:03 AM (#3307300)
Dawn Wells, whichever one she is.


That's Mary Ann.


Monica, Rachel, or Phoebe?
Chrissy, Janet, Terry, or Cindy?
Daphne or Roz?
Carol Seaver or Mallorey?
Rebecca or Diane?
Kelly or Peg Bundy?
Kim Cattrall, Kristin Davis, Cynthia Nixon, or SJP?
Claire, Denise, or Sondra Huxtable?
Rose, Sophia, Dorothy, or Blanche? :-)
Alice or Trixie?
Mary, Rhoda, or Phillis?
Kelly Kapowski, Jessie, or Lisa Turtle?
Hilary or Ashley?


Ray, if you're male, the proper answer to all of these question is "Yes."
   86. Srul Itza Posted: August 28, 2009 at 02:05 AM (#3307302)
Pretty much the popular sitcoms on tV today, best I can tell.


There were a number of TV sitcoms I used to enjoy. MASH (although not always a comedy); Cheers; Night Court (Dan LaRoquette is a genius and I enjoy the surreal); AITF in its day; Taxi; Barney Miller; and others.

There is not a single half-hour sit-com on today that I would waste time on. That especially includes "Sunny in Philadelphia" -- I don't care for humor whose basis is: Let's watch bad things happen to unbelievably stupid, irretrievably immoral and insensitive people.

Oh, and the link above is to the entire episode, courtesy of YouTube. Best half hour ever of comic TV.


Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin; Black Adder; Monty Python; Fawlty Towers. Great stuff from the Brits.
   87. AndrewJ Posted: August 28, 2009 at 02:09 AM (#3307307)
My personal favorite FAWLTY TOWERS (though they're all fantastic) is "Waldorf Salad"...
   88. OCF Posted: August 28, 2009 at 02:15 AM (#3307308)
Once upon a time I watched sitcoms. I remember absolutely stupid stuff like Car 54 Where Are You? and Green Acres from when I was a kid. I watched All in the Family and Mary Tyler Moore and M.A.S.H. and Cheers. And then I didn't watch any more of them, ever. It's probably been 6 or 7 years since I've seen any sitcom with live actors in anything more than a random 30 seconds while channel surfing. I suppose some of them are better than others - but I wouldn't know since I haven't seen any of them. I don't even really know why that happened, but it just did.

I'm not deeply attached to any drama these days, but I do occasionally watch some things - but I was more attached to some that have gone by, like Hill Street Blues and NYPD Blue. One antidote to all that "buffoonish bigotry" that Andy M. refers to in #83 is the long-running, complex portrayal of Andy S. in the latter show - a believable human being, with human baggage attached, whose actions very much depended on the environment he was in and on he attitudes and actions of those he held closest.
   89. Spahn Insane Posted: August 28, 2009 at 02:22 AM (#3307311)
All this talk of Pizza Hut and M*A*S*H, and nobody takes his Faulkner comment and runs with it?
   90. Powderhorn™, arrogant local sailing champion Posted: August 28, 2009 at 02:24 AM (#3307312)
Ray, the correct answers to your questions are Kelly and Peg Bundy (not at the same time) and Lisa Tuttle.

"Sunny in Philadelphia" -- I don't care for humor whose basis is: Let's watch bad things happen to unbelievably stupid, irretrievably immoral and insensitive people."


I loved the first couple of seasons of It's Always Sunny. My interest started to wane when I realized that the characters were going to stay the same, one-dimensional sociopaths they'd always been. Watching teenagers acting stupid, immature and never learning anything can be funny. Watching 30-year-olds acting stupid, immature and never learning anything is kind of depressing.
   91. Ray (CTL) Posted: August 28, 2009 at 02:25 AM (#3307314)
OCF: I haven't watched any new sitcoms since Frasier. Some King of Queens here and there, I suppose, but I don't make a habit of it.

I've also stopped watching all new dramas, NYPD Blue being the last for me -- and I loved the dramas in the 80s.

Oddly, though, I buy the old dramas from the 70s on dvd and watch those. They're like new series to me. And they don't seem as dated as the 70s sitcoms do. They have a different feel than today's dramas -- I can't get into today's dramas for some reason. I tried watching that NUMB3RS show. It was a mess. The Law & Order stuff does nothing for me. I tried watching CSI and its various spinoffs. Nothing. ER. Nothing.
   92. Shalimar Posted: August 28, 2009 at 02:28 AM (#3307319)
I still have fond memories of Pizza Hut from always wanting to stop and get a priazzo (sort of like a fake Chicago-style pizza) while they were making them in the 80s. I'm not sure if I would like it as much now, but that was my favorite food growing up. My dad would occasionally take us when we visited him each month, and it was far better than the delivery pizza my mom and step-dad got for us once a week at home. On the other hand, I have eaten at Pizza Hut several times in the last decade and it was terrible. Not too bad going down though it was very greasy, but it just sat in my stomach the rest of the day making me miserable. Yuck. I wouldn't eat in a Pizza Hut again if it was free.
   93. Spahn Insane Posted: August 28, 2009 at 02:30 AM (#3307320)
Oh yeah--priazzo. Those were good!
   94. Srul Itza Posted: August 28, 2009 at 02:35 AM (#3307323)
I remember absolutely stupid stuff like Car 54 Where Are You? and Green Acres from when I was a kid.


We must be pretty much the same age. The question is, can you still sing the theme songs from memory. Sadly, I can.

There's a hold up in the Bronx
Brooklyn's broken out in fights
There's a traffic jam in Harlem
That's backed up to Jackson Heights
There's a scout troop short a child
Kruschev's due at Idlewilde

CAR 54 WHERE ARE YOU?

I would do Green Acres as well, but I always have a problem with Gabor's accent. I do wonder whatever happened to Arnold, who had plenty of personality, regardless of what Jules thought. Did he end up as part of the commissary wagon on the next show?
   95. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: August 28, 2009 at 02:38 AM (#3307325)
I've also stopped watching all new dramas

To name just a couple of obvious recent ones, The Wire and Mad Men are both outstanding. If we're confining the discussion to network tv, then I've got nothin'.
   96. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: August 28, 2009 at 02:47 AM (#3307330)
There is not a single half-hour sit-com on today that I would waste time on.
30 Rock is frickin' brilliant. I also very much enjoy How I Met Your Mother.

I generally agree about sociopath-comedy - it's not a meta-comedy anymore, it's just lazy.
   97. Howie Menckel Posted: August 28, 2009 at 02:58 AM (#3307334)
Are there Red Sox fans who find Rice more Hall-worthy than Jeter?
I mean, aside from one guy.

Or do they only object to the "can't carry his jock" indefinable standard?
   98. Langer Monk Posted: August 28, 2009 at 02:59 AM (#3307335)
If anyone wants to see the most perfect sendup of buffoonish bigotry that ever appeared on television, check out the dialogue between Basil Fawlty and The Major in The Germans episode of Fawlty Towers. It's the part that begins with the Major saying "I knew a woman once" and ends with his saying "Good card players..."

Oh, and the link above is to the entire episode, courtesy of YouTube. Best half hour ever of comic TV.


Fawlty Towers always has done the best "I hate my wife" bits on TV. Ingrown tongue. Heh.
   99. OCF Posted: August 28, 2009 at 03:01 AM (#3307336)
Srul (#98). Yep. I could have reproduced most of lines you quoted and I can still hear that tune bouncing around in my head. There's also "A horse is a horse, of course, of course ..."
   100. Srul Itza Posted: August 28, 2009 at 03:03 AM (#3307338)
30 Rock is frickin' brilliant.


I have heard that, and might give it a try -- but Alec Baldwin really creeps me out.
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