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Friday, June 24, 2022

Weekend OMNICHATTER for June 24-26, 2022

Scoreboards for the Major Leagues and all minor leagues,
courtesy of Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee).

Hombre Brotani Posted: June 24, 2022 at 01:58 PM | 172 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: omnichatter

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   101. cardsfanboy Posted: June 26, 2022 at 03:28 PM (#6083943)
Cardinals with 3 homeruns in the third (And Arenado barely missed on one also)
   102. Walt Davis Posted: June 26, 2022 at 03:28 PM (#6083944)
Cards are gonna be tough to beat in the HR derby today.
   103. The Duke Posted: June 26, 2022 at 03:30 PM (#6083945)
Have there ever been back to back no hitters by one team over another ?
   104. The Duke Posted: June 26, 2022 at 03:31 PM (#6083946)
Urquidy at 70 pitches through 5 so it will be another combined no hitter if it is to occur
   105. Walt Davis Posted: June 26, 2022 at 03:31 PM (#6083947)
So after giving up 3 HRs and a near-HR, the Cubs pull Alec Mills and replace him with Swarmer who has given up 11 HR in 24 innings.

EDIT: Fair enough, in the HR derby, the batters get to choose their own pitcher.
   106. cardsfanboy Posted: June 26, 2022 at 03:33 PM (#6083948)
Have there ever been back to back no hitters by one team over another ?


According to Quora... no, but in 1917 the White Sox were no hit in back to back days, with one of them being the second game of a double hitter.
   107. Howie Menckel Posted: June 26, 2022 at 03:39 PM (#6083949)
Yankees now hitless in their last 16 innings dating back to Friday night (1 + 9 + 6)

that matches the longest streak since 1961 - matching the 1973 A's and 1981 Dodgers (who both won the pennant btw)
   108. TomH Posted: June 26, 2022 at 03:39 PM (#6083950)
I *think* that was a funny typo above

"double hitter" :)
   109. cardsfanboy Posted: June 26, 2022 at 03:40 PM (#6083951)
I'm just dumb, not a typo.
   110. cardsfanboy Posted: June 26, 2022 at 03:43 PM (#6083952)
bases loaded no outs for the cubs in a 4 run game. Great opportunity to come back.

Oviedo attacks the strike zone to get a three pitch strikeout.
   111. cardsfanboy Posted: June 26, 2022 at 03:48 PM (#6083953)
Cubs making it a 2 run game now with a bases loaded double.

Make that tie game...
   112. cardsfanboy Posted: June 26, 2022 at 03:49 PM (#6083954)
I don't care how bad or good the Cardinals and Cubs are relative to each other, it feels like they never have a non-interesting series.
   113. cardsfanboy Posted: June 26, 2022 at 03:52 PM (#6083955)
That should be overturn on review. Man on first for the Cubs, a ground ball to Goldy who tags the runner at first, then steps on the bag... Umpire argued that he tagged the bag first.
   114. Walt Davis Posted: June 26, 2022 at 03:52 PM (#6083956)
#95 ... as I do the math, it seems to me that you're correct it should be more than that.

A "full" season for a pitcher seems to be about 220-250 innings. (It makes sense for it to still be so high even though nobody throws that many anymore.) That's 22 Rrep at a pace of about 1 per 10 or 1 per 11 innings. So 6 innings should be worth 0.55 to 0.6 Rrep or 0.055 to 0.06 WAR.

Now assuming Mikolas's last start didn't lead to a huge change in things like RA9opp, RAdef, etc. (it's early they might have) or just using those values as a hypothetical, an average pitcher in his context gives up 4.15 R/9 (RA9avg) which is 2.8 R/6. So giving up 1 run, Mikolas should be credited with 1.8 runs saved above average. Add the 0.6 in Rrep and that's 2.4 runs above replacement. Even if it was 2.1 WAR previously due to rounding, 2.051 + .24 still gets you to 2.3.

Very early in the season, you might see the other components change dramatically and some of the previous runs above average "disappear." (It's complicated.) But this was Mikolas's 15th start (next weekend is the halfway point of the season give or take) so, as uninspiring as the Cubs are, they aren't so bad as to shift RA9opp much out of 15 starts.
   115. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 26, 2022 at 03:55 PM (#6083957)
Giancarlo Stanton HR (#17) to Monument Park (436 feet) puts them on the board, and ends a significant Yankees scoring lull. Still 3-1 Astros.
   116. Howie Menckel Posted: June 26, 2022 at 03:55 PM (#6083958)
Stanton HR ends the NYY schneid with 1 out in 7th
   117. Walt Davis Posted: June 26, 2022 at 03:57 PM (#6083960)
Huh? I thought he did tag the bag first and thought they were reviewing whether he tagged Contreras before he got back on the bag.

Wow, a Jesus ad behind home plate in the Cubs/Cards game.
   118. Walt Davis Posted: June 26, 2022 at 03:59 PM (#6083961)
The ad suggests the Gospels instruct us to use RA9 not ERA. Also possibly that all defensive metrics are an abomination unto the Lord. Pretty spot on there.

EDIT: Upon reflection and brief consultation of the Talmud, I must correct myself. Fielding errors are an abomination but Jesus, bringing forth a new covenant, forgives them. So fielding metrics may simply be anti-Christian and, I assume, soon to be ruled unconstitutional.
   119. cardsfanboy Posted: June 26, 2022 at 04:01 PM (#6083962)
Huh? I thought he did tag the bag first and thought they were reviewing whether he tagged Contreras before he got back on the bag.


There is an angle where I think he might have come close to tagging the bag first, the one from behind, his toe might have clipped the bag, but it was around that time he realized the sequence of events he needed to tag the runner. But I think he missed the bag originally, and I think it doesn't matter whether he(the runner) was on the bag at all at that point, the bag belongs to the batter.
   120. The Duke Posted: June 26, 2022 at 04:04 PM (#6083963)
So the thought process on that DP is what ?

The runner is out on the tag regardless of whether he gets to 1B before the tag because he's not entitled to 1B. Then Goldy steps on 1B and the batter is out as well?

But it looked to me like Goldy touched 1B first which meant it is no longer a force on the runner and then the runner beat the tag.
   121. Greg Pope Posted: June 26, 2022 at 04:06 PM (#6083964)
For the force play, does it matter if the Cubs runner is still on the bag?

Let's say the same thing happens but the runner on first just goes right back and stands on first base. Beats the 1B there by a bunch and just stands there. 1B fields the ball and walks over to the bag. If he tags the runner standing on first, is the runner out due to the force?
   122. cardsfanboy Posted: June 26, 2022 at 04:20 PM (#6083966)
So the thought process on that DP is what ?

The runner is out on the tag regardless of whether he gets to 1B before the tag because he's not entitled to 1B. Then Goldy steps on 1B and the batter is out as well?

But it looked to me like Goldy touched 1B first which meant it is no longer a force on the runner and then the runner beat the tag.


Yes the runner is not entitled to the bag so it's not a safe spot for him, so as long as he is tagged before the fielder steps on the bag, it doesn't matter if he is on the bag or not, he's out because he is 'forced' off the bag by the runner that is entitled to it. The replay did show that Goldy didn't step on the bag before he tagged the runner. At least that is what the replay official declared. (at the same time it really didn't matter because based upon what I saw, Goldy tagged the runner while he was off the bag so the order really didn't figure into the final play)

I don't think I've ever seen that play applied at first, I've seen it multiple times at third sometimes where the fielder makes the right call on order of who to tag, and sometimes not. (usually in rundown situations)
   123. cardsfanboy Posted: June 26, 2022 at 04:22 PM (#6083967)
For the force play, does it matter if the Cubs runner is still on the bag?

Let's say the same thing happens but the runner on first just goes right back and stands on first base. Beats the 1B there by a bunch and just stands there. 1B fields the ball and walks over to the bag. If he tags the runner standing on first, is the runner out due to the force?


Yes the runner is out, then the fielder can step on first base. The runner would also be out the second the batter steps on first base. (I think, reading the rules right now, and it's not actually really clear about the situation other than if two are on the base at the same time)
   124. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 26, 2022 at 04:22 PM (#6083968)
2-run D.J. LeMahieu HR (#7) to LF (386 feet) ties the score 3-3 in 8th.
   125. cardsfanboy Posted: June 26, 2022 at 04:37 PM (#6083970)
7.08 E is the closest I can find that explains that play

He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been
forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.
   126. Howie Menckel Posted: June 26, 2022 at 04:40 PM (#6083971)
probably there are no important baseball games in June - but if there are any, this Yankees-Astros game is one of them.

Yankees could go from 16 innings of hitless baseball to winning the series on 2 late rallies in 3 games - or take a bit of a gut punch if they lose, after all this.
   127. cardsfanboy Posted: June 26, 2022 at 04:52 PM (#6083972)
Cardinals challenging the play, forceout at first, won the challenge, and I don't know how, it didn't look conclusive at all.
   128. Walt Davis Posted: June 26, 2022 at 04:53 PM (#6083973)
I don't think I've ever seen that play applied at first, I've seen it multiple times at third sometimes where the fielder makes the right call on order of who to tag, and sometimes not. (usually in rundown situations)

1. I'm sure I've seen it and I'm sure I've seen it messed up. But I don't remember it so well that I can prove it or even who might have been involved. An event search for 3 unassisted GDPs would turn up the possibilities but the box scores won't give you the detail. (Hmmm... if you get the force at first then tag the runner, is that still a GDP in official scorer-ese?)

2. The rundown play is technically different. This happened just the other day in some game (was that Yanks-Astros?). In the rundown situation (i.e. no force) the bag belongs to the runner who was there to begin with. So if the runner is caught between 3rd and home, the runner on 2nd advances to 3rd, the other runner is run back to 3B such that 2 guys are standing on 3B. Player should tag them both just to be sure and let the ump sort it out but the guy who came over from 2nd is called out. Unless forced, the base "belongs" to the guy who was there first until he safely touches the next base.

I've mentioned before that #2 seemed to happen all the time when I was a kid but not very much these days. I bring this up occasionally. The Cubs had one the other day where Contreras broke on first contact and got hung between 3rd and home but the runner on 2nd (Ortega?) didn't break for third or went only halfway. So the Cards got Contreras (out of the path) but Ortega was stuck at 2nd.
   129. phredbird Posted: June 26, 2022 at 05:00 PM (#6083975)

i'm surprised that 1B call was reversed too. sure looked too close to change it.
   130. Walt Davis Posted: June 26, 2022 at 05:03 PM (#6083976)
You'll occasionally see two runners at first come up on dropped pop-ups (with man on first, second open so IFF rule doesn't apply). But of course usually the runner will have time to make a pointless break for 2nd. The play in this game seemed weird to me because you don't see the runner go back to the bag. He often just gives up but It was probably the right call by Contreras in this situation because he had a shot. Goldschmidt kinda messed up -- he's got both Contreras and the batter dead to rights but he's hurrying to get the tag on Contreras before he gets back.

Not Willson's day for replay reviews.

Interesting decision by Bote there. Probably the right one cuz the batter might have beaten the throw plus the runner was probably blocking the throw ... but nearly the same situation. That's probably the one where you'd see it the most, if Bote had just run the runner back to first, you'd have two guys on the bag.
   131. Walt Davis Posted: June 26, 2022 at 05:04 PM (#6083977)
Ian Happ!
   132. cardsfanboy Posted: June 26, 2022 at 05:04 PM (#6083978)
Happ with a great play on Goldy. I thought he got a bit more of the ball, but still great play by Happ.
   133. phredbird Posted: June 26, 2022 at 05:05 PM (#6083979)

ouch! what a catch.
   134. cardsfanboy Posted: June 26, 2022 at 05:11 PM (#6083981)
Wow, what a nice play by Edman. You do one, we'll match it.
   135. phredbird Posted: June 26, 2022 at 05:16 PM (#6083982)

gee, that looked challengable ... maybe i need new glasses.

referring to the 3rd out there.
   136. Howie Menckel Posted: June 26, 2022 at 05:18 PM (#6083983)
probably there are no important baseball games in June - but if there are any, this Yankees-Astros game is one of them.

Yankees could go from 16 innings of hitless baseball to winning the series on 2 late rallies in 3 games - or take a bit of a gut punch if they lose, after all this.
   137. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 26, 2022 at 05:25 PM (#6083984)
3-run HR (#28) to LF (381 feet) by Aaron Judge, his 2nd walk-off hit of the series, salvages a split of the 4-games with the Astros. 6-3 NYY.

EDIT: CORRECTION ON THE MEASUREMENT, JUDGE’S HR WAS 417 FEET. My quick glance initially picked up Altuve’s earlier, less conclusive hit.
   138. cardsfanboy Posted: June 26, 2022 at 05:27 PM (#6083985)
That Judge kid might be a good ballplayer.
   139. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 26, 2022 at 05:29 PM (#6083986)
SAVOR THE MOMENT

These were the first runs scored off this Astros reliever (Martinez) all year.
   140. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 26, 2022 at 05:31 PM (#6083987)
Yankees could go from 16 innings of hitless baseball to winning the series on 2 late rallies in 3 games - or take a bit of a gut punch if they lose, after all this.

And the Yanks and 'stros get to play another game just four days from now----in Houston. We can thank the lockout for that.
   141. Walt Davis Posted: June 26, 2022 at 05:44 PM (#6083988)
Not to be a girly swot but Sosa's sliding glove will get to the bag about 4 seconds before he does.
   142. . . . . . . Posted: June 26, 2022 at 05:46 PM (#6083989)
That was a terrible hanging offspeed pitch by Martinez it deserved to be hit 1000ft.
   143. Walt Davis Posted: June 26, 2022 at 05:47 PM (#6083990)
That Judge kid might be a good ballplayer.

Still 18 WAR behind Joe Judge
   144. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 26, 2022 at 05:48 PM (#6083991)
The Nationals Juan Soto has reached base 5 times today against the Rangers, 4 on BB. He leads MLB with 61 BB, 13 more than any other player, in what has been somewhat of an off-year for Soto.
   145. Walt Davis Posted: June 26, 2022 at 05:56 PM (#6083992)
Extra "impressive" because he's usually been followed by Cruz (up to a 110 OPS+ after a terrible start) or Bell (152 OPS+) with the other one next. Since April, Cruz has hit 297/374/479, roughly speaking about a 140 OPS+. So just as nobody batted an eye in walking Bonds to get to Kent, it's clear nobody's overly concerned about the "protection" behind Soto.
   146. Walt Davis Posted: June 26, 2022 at 06:01 PM (#6083993)
On-contact, Soto is just 55 for 208 with just 111 TB. That's pretty terrible on-contact production.

Crucial DP by the Cards there. Virtually guarantees the Cards will at least tie it.
   147. Walt Davis Posted: June 26, 2022 at 06:06 PM (#6083994)
Nice play by Hoerner and that virtual guarantee might be worth as much as the paper it's printed on.
   148. cardsfanboy Posted: June 26, 2022 at 06:07 PM (#6083995)
Crucial DP by the Cards there. Virtually guarantees the Cards will at least tie it.


Cardinals just can't put the ball in play. Donovan with the strikeout.
   149. phredbird Posted: June 26, 2022 at 06:08 PM (#6083996)

C R A P
   150. Walt Davis Posted: June 26, 2022 at 06:11 PM (#6083997)
Cubs win!

This ends a nasty stretch of 17 straight days with a game, including the Yanks, Padres, Braves and Cards (and Pirates). So I assume the toughest stretch of the year. It started horribly with 7 straight losses (part of a 10-loss streak) but they pulled it together to 5-5 taking 2 of 3 from both the Braves and Cards.
   151. Howie Menckel Posted: June 26, 2022 at 06:36 PM (#6083999)
correction: Yankees split the 4-game series. sure feels like a series win for them
   152. Howie Menckel Posted: June 26, 2022 at 07:03 PM (#6084002)
donnybrook in Mariners-Angels game - like, injured Anthony Rendon punching Jesse Winker in the face and stuff.

Mariners buzzed a pitch near St. Trout's head last night, and today Angels SP threw one behind a guy in the first inning and plunked Winker in the second. Winker sought to take on all 25 Angels, but he was backed up by Mariners teammates and hijinks ensued.

8 ejections. double middle-finger maneuver to the crowd by Winker as the heel exits the field.

saw one wag wonder why, since both bullpens fully empty out and they always jog toward the melee in close proximity, why don't they just fight each other in the outfield?
   153. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 26, 2022 at 07:09 PM (#6084003)
That Judge kid might be a good ballplayer.


Still 18 WAR behind Joe Judge

That would be the grandfather of Mark Gauvreau Judge, who wrote a history of Joe Judge's Senators and then later got his 15 minutes of fame during the Kavanaugh hearings.
   154. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 26, 2022 at 07:13 PM (#6084004)
I see there were 8 ejections in the Mariners @ Angels fracas/brouhaha/rumpus/melee/brawl earlier today, but no mention here. A far cry from when BTTF kept you up on the news of the world.

EDIT: Didn’t refresh, and missed the belated recap, so fighting Fresca to #152.
   155. vortex of dissipation Posted: June 26, 2022 at 07:25 PM (#6084005)
today Angels SP threw one behind a guy in the first inning


That guy being Julio Rodríguez, which didn't sit well with the Mariners.
   156. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: June 26, 2022 at 07:29 PM (#6084007)
David Cone obviously has his talking point - he’s described Spencer Strider as an “old-school drop-and-drive guy” four times already (top of the 2nd).
   157. Howie Menckel Posted: June 26, 2022 at 08:04 PM (#6084008)
tonight they have Braves SP Max Fried doing the "dugout in-game interview" - and it works.

he's not nervous, has a couple of things to say, and can ad-lib as needed, which is often. at one point they wanted Max to ask Orlando Arcia how Gonsolin fanned him earlier, and Arcia didn't seem prepared for the question. so Max prodded him about the slider and asked if the movement he suspected was the key. all Arcia did was nod, but the point got across.

every MLB PR guy should know who can and can't handle this stuff. admittedly, ESPN might insist on a Trout no matter what, but in this case you have an All-Star who also is good at this - so everybody wins. even the audience (not that they are a priority, lol).

he's coming back for the next half-inning. nothing blindingly illuminating, but it adds a modest amount to the broadcast and that's more than I can say for a lot of ESPN gimmicks.
   158. Howie Menckel Posted: June 26, 2022 at 08:27 PM (#6084009)
BBTF - and Delta Airlines - fave Jeff Francoeur on the A-Rod telecast version on ESPN2 just now.

when he played for the Mets (2009-10), I once had front-row seats down the RF line. in between innings, of course OFs have tossed baseballs back and forth to keep loose (or something) since time immemorial. instead of Frenchy tossing with someone in the bullpen, though, he had youngsters in the front rows of the stands with gloves as his "other tosser."

a little thing, maybe.

but imagine you go to a ballgame and in between innings, and you get to play 'pitch-and-catch' with a big leaguer. priceless.
   159. Dillon Gee Escape Plan Posted: June 26, 2022 at 08:45 PM (#6084012)
   160. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 26, 2022 at 09:47 PM (#6084015)
Looked like yet another uncalled violation of the catcher’s throwing lane, eh?
   161. Howie Menckel Posted: June 26, 2022 at 09:51 PM (#6084016)
wow, now another BBTF fave - Steve Garvey - on the A-Rod Cast on ESPN2.

who's coming aboard in the 8th - Chris Truby?
Murray Chass? (co-host Michael Kay knows him very well...)
   162. Howie Menckel Posted: June 26, 2022 at 10:28 PM (#6084018)
ok, maybe I give the Kay-Rod (Michael Kay/A-Rod) broadcast a shot next week.

setting baggage aside (ok, maybe over the limits here), Garvey was kind of interesting.

he said by mid-career, in a spot like the Braves had - up 1-0, bags loaded, 1 out - he knew the pitcher wanted to induce a DP so he would move around in the box and lower his hands (he noted this is kind of like "launch angle").

right on cue, Riley lifts one to center for a key sac fly.

Garvey was there to pimp the first All-Star Game in LA I think since 1980.
of course he reminds us that he played in that one, he played in 10 ASGs, he went 10-0, he was the first (only?) write-in candidate to start in an ASG in 1974, and that he was named MVP of that one.

but he looks good, he's still a smooth talker, and he gets away with it.

he mentioned that LA struggled against lefties, and he was a part-time 3B in his first three seasons. MGR Walter Alston said in 1973, "Have you played 1B?" and Garvey said, "sure" - then added tonight "once in Little League and once in the minors."

so he got a chance, and that launched the Garvey-Lopes-Russell-Cey infield that - at 8 1/2 years together - I think remains the longest-running INF in MLB history.

at one point, A-Rod got up to show a batting stance and he and Garvey agreed that "when the pitcher shows you his backside, you show him yours" - which, possibly, could get taken out of context.

:)
   163. Walt Davis Posted: June 26, 2022 at 10:44 PM (#6084026)
wow, now another BBTF fave - Steve Garvey - on the A-Rod Cast on ESPN2.

Big boost to the ratings if his kids tune in.

This 9th inning Dodger pitcher ... he's maybe still a few kilos shy of "peak" Bartolo Colon but my money's on him in an eating contest with Alejandro Kirk. Listed at 5-10, 265, I'm betting the over.
   164. Walt Davis Posted: June 26, 2022 at 10:46 PM (#6084027)
In the interests of full disclosure, I was thinking of chiming in here that surely the Dodgers must have a better 2-out, t9, tying runs in scoring position bat than Trayce Thompson available. Then he got the game-tying single and I demurred.
   165. Walt Davis Posted: June 26, 2022 at 10:47 PM (#6084028)
While you'd love to see him at the plate, hard to find a better ghost runner than Trea Turner.

EDIT: And just like that Freeman rips a double that probably even Reyes Moronta could have scored on.
   166. Mike A Posted: June 26, 2022 at 10:51 PM (#6084029)
Then he got the game-tying single and I demurred.
To be fair, pretty sure his eyes were closed during that swing 'cause he had no idea where that ball went, or maybe if he even hit it. But somehow it ended up over the glove of Olson. /bitter

Musn't go on ghost runner rant...musn't go on ghost runner rant...musn't go on ghost runner rant..
   167. Walt Davis Posted: June 26, 2022 at 10:56 PM (#6084030)
The near pointlessness of the ghost runner ... Dodgers score, lead by one ... graphic tells us this increases their chances of winning to just 51%. One batter later and now their chances of winning are well under 50%.

EDIT: I mighta misread that, checking some b-r box scores, looks like scoring the ghost runner (only) takes it from about 50% to 61%. I blame the glare of the afternoon sun.
   168. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: June 26, 2022 at 10:57 PM (#6084031)
Garvey ......but he looks good, he's still a smooth talker, and he gets away with it.


Does his face move? I think Garvey went plastic as far back as the 80's. Dude always came across as a big phony but a real smooooooth operator.....

Kimbrel out to save the game for the Dodgers after Jansen sh*t the bed in the 9th. Would love to see Kimbrel blow this and then you'd have the bizarro finish of Jansen blowing it for the Braves and Kimbrel blowing it for the Dodgers.
   169. Cris E Posted: June 26, 2022 at 11:02 PM (#6084032)
Regarding Wes Johnson to LSU:
He's on the team flight to Cleveland this evening and will coach the coming series but he'll be done at the end of the week. Bullpen coach Maki to take over. Wes is reportedly getting a bump from $350k to $750k and did not seek a counter-offer from the Twins. More has to be coming on this story.
   170. Walt Davis Posted: June 26, 2022 at 11:16 PM (#6084033)
Dodgers apparently so cash-strapped they can't afford a road massage therapist.

That ball by Lux hung up longer than I expected. Harris ran it down very well though. Chris Taylor double brings the GR home. Another off the tip of a Brave's glove.

   171. Walt Davis Posted: June 26, 2022 at 11:20 PM (#6084034)
So O'Day had a nice run of near untouchability, then an OK year in 2017. In the 4+ years since, just 68 innings but still a 148 ERA+. Here he gives up the dreaded earned run.
   172. Howie Menckel Posted: June 26, 2022 at 11:28 PM (#6084035)
To be fair, pretty sure his eyes were closed during that swing 'cause he had no idea where that ball went, or maybe if he even hit it.

can confirm. saw several Thompson ABs this weekend - he is not a MLB hitter. maybe there's a reason the toothless Tigers had him in AAA ball 10 days ago.
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