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Tuesday, October 20, 2020

WORLD SERIES 2020 OMNICHATTER!

Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: October 20, 2020 at 04:41 AM | 833 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: omnichatter, world series

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   401. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:29 AM (#5985176)
This just in, the VAR ruled that play : offside.
   402. The Honorable Ardo Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:29 AM (#5985177)
Give credit to Smoltz. He's dead on with Smith not picking up on Arozarena's stumble and thinking he was in a do-or-die swipe tag scenario.
   403. Itchy Row Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:30 AM (#5985178)
The rare Double Buckner. I thought it was just a myth.
   404. PeteF3 Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:31 AM (#5985179)
I know it's been awhile but I think that qualifies as a walk-off [X] COLLECTIVE CONRADIAN CATASTROPHE.
   405. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:32 AM (#5985180)
Been out most of the day, just got back to watch the last half inning with the wife who is NOT a baseball fan and after that finish, she says "gee that's fun".

Too right.
   406. The Honorable Ardo Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:32 AM (#5985181)
I know it's been awhile but I think that qualifies as a walk-off [X] COLLECTIVE CONRADIAN CATASTROPHE.

Primey for #404.
   407. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:35 AM (#5985182)
I think that qualifies as a walk-off [X] COLLECTIVE CONRADIAN CATASTROPHE.
So, if I have it right, Taylor mishandled the ball in the outfield, Smith failed to hold on to the throw to the plate, and Jansen didn’t back up home? That’s a lot to go wrong, but maybe I missed something?
   408. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:35 AM (#5985183)
Don't know whether it's been mentioned, but the umpire tried to gift the Dodgers the game by calling two straight strikes on Phillips with a 1-0 count when both pitches were clearly out of the strike zone. Thank God Phillips didn't let it rattle him.
   409. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:37 AM (#5985184)
So, if I have it right, Taylor mishandled the ball in the outfield, Smith failed to hold on to the throw to the plate, and Jansen didn’t back up home? That’s a lot to go wrong, but maybe I missed something?

Well, Arozarena won the Daniel Jones award halfway between third and home.
   410. The Honorable Ardo Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:38 AM (#5985185)
Yankee Clapper is spot on. Arozarena fell down between third and home, but he was able to somersault up and score after Muncy's relay got past Smith. And - watching the replay - where on earth is Jansen? He's in no man's land. If he's backing up Smith like he should've been, it's going to extra innings.
   411. SoSH U at work Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:40 AM (#5985186)
Obviously, it's not anything that will be remembered, but Phillips was on his way to third when Arozarena was in between third and home. The only possible outcome of that baserunning is a bad outcome for the Rays.
   412. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:43 AM (#5985187)
Let's just say that that final play would've been eminently suitable for a 1962 Mets - Cubs game.
   413. Random Transaction Generator Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:43 AM (#5985188)
I think that qualifies as a walk-off [X] COLLECTIVE CONRADIAN CATASTROPHE.


So, if I have it right, Taylor mishandled the ball in the outfield, Smith failed to hold on to the throw to the plate, and Jansen didn’t back up home? That’s a lot to go wrong, but maybe I missed something?


- Dave Roberts put Jansen in/left Jansen in.
- Jansen threw a bad pitch.
- Taylor bobbled the ball.
- Muncy threw the ball to the wrong side (always throw up the line so the catcher can watch the runner while fielding the ball).
- Umpire did not clear the bat out of the way, and Smith stepped on it.
- Smith mishandled the throw.
- Jansen didn't back up the plate.
- Third base coach waved in Arozarena.
- Arozarena fell down.

That's everything I saw.
   414. Howie Menckel Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:45 AM (#5985189)
will check with my trademark attorneys on Monday - Arozarena's sprint and tumble as he passed third base is a possibly actionable imitation of my BBTF Central Park softball debut 7 or 8 years ago (MetsFanCharlie did a RH batter homage, unintentionally, a couple of years later).

granted, mine was out of the batter's box.

but the elements are there - a full-blown sprint, and then that brutal moment when you realize that your brain just wrote a check that your body can't cash.

:)

oddly, my hard grounder was handled properly by the second baseman for a routine out - so I didn't get a second lease on base running life like Randy did.

if you're a Dodgers fan, that may sting the most of all.
   415. The Honorable Ardo Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:46 AM (#5985190)
Been out most of the day, just got back to watch the last half inning with the wife who is NOT a baseball fan and after that finish, she says "gee that's fun".
Among the half-dozen greatest games I've ever seen. Baseball is fun!
   416. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:47 AM (#5985191)
Kiermaier is saying Arozarena would have been safe if he hadn’t fallen down even if the catcher had held on to the ball. I haven’t seen a view that showed that, but I’ve been BBTF multi-tasking. Anyone know for sure?
   417. salvomania Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:48 AM (#5985192)
Arozarena would have been safe if he hadn’t fallen down even if the catcher had held on to the bal

Without going back to look at the replay, my impression is that he woulda been a dead duck.

EDIT: OK, looking at a replay, it's hard to tell because you never see the Arozarena stumble along with where the ball is at that point, so I don't know...
   418. Itchy Row Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:48 AM (#5985193)
Walkoff-shoulda-been-TOOTBLAN
   419. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:49 AM (#5985194)
It really was an exceptional WS game before the Phillips AB, now its an all timer. I think it tops game 6 of Cards Rangers for recency purposes.
   420. The Honorable Ardo Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:50 AM (#5985195)
I'm not as certain; Arozarena is fast. I think it would've been a close play at the plate - and we'd have gotten a replay review, which would've absolutely killed the moment. Thank goodness we avoided THAT.
   421. Tin Angel Posted: October 25, 2020 at 01:08 AM (#5985196)
Taylor bobbled the ball.


Why was Bellinger not in the game?
   422. baxter Posted: October 25, 2020 at 01:09 AM (#5985197)
Kershaw now has a chance to dispel perceptions of him as a playoff choker. Alternately, he has a chance to cement the choker label.

We'll see what happens.
   423. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: October 25, 2020 at 01:10 AM (#5985198)
Merkle must have been laughing in his grave upon seeing all those boners on one play.
   424. Itchy Row Posted: October 25, 2020 at 01:11 AM (#5985199)
Why was Bellinger not in the game?
He woke up with a stiff back and DHed.
   425. Doug Jones threw harder than me Posted: October 25, 2020 at 01:12 AM (#5985200)
Bellinger was the DH, so he couldn't have entered as a defensive replacement. He reported a stiff back, which is why the Dodgers put him in as DH for today's game.
   426. Snowboy Posted: October 25, 2020 at 01:18 AM (#5985201)
Yes Bellinger was originally announced as the CF, and Pollock the DH, but they were switched about 90 minutes before game.
   427. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 25, 2020 at 01:19 AM (#5985202)
And - watching the replay - where on earth is Jansen? He's in no man's land. If he's backing up Smith like he should've been, it's going to extra innings.
Seems like Jansen should have been back there somewhere, but since the ball deflected off the catchers glove to his right, I’m not sure Jansen would have been in position to get the ball if he’d been to the catcher’s left to back up a throw coming from right field. He’d have to be wandering around, not really where he should be, and then get incredibly lucky to have it come to him. Even then, not sure he had time to get the runner. Of course, Jansen had no chance to do anything where he actually was.
   428. SoSH U at work Posted: October 25, 2020 at 01:25 AM (#5985203)
That's everything I saw.


Phillips took off for third. Hell, he shouldn't have run to second.
   429. Snowboy Posted: October 25, 2020 at 01:30 AM (#5985204)
That was an EPIC finish to a really enjoyable game. Brett Phillips first WS AB. Both teams churning through their bullpens (Rays out of need, Dodgers moreso out of playbook.)
Arozarena falls down, now he's dead to rights and game is tied, going to extras, Tampa now has it's future SP warming up, Taylor muffs it, Muncy lobs it, Smith yaks it, Arozarena gets up and stumbles home. For the win. Phillips runs like an airplane out into left field. Like a child, pure walkoff joy.
   430. Esmailyn Gonzalez Sr. Posted: October 25, 2020 at 01:31 AM (#5985205)
And - watching the replay - where on earth is Jansen?

I believe he was in the Jeter zone
   431. base ball chick Posted: October 25, 2020 at 01:50 AM (#5985206)
walk off wins that happen when the pinch runner has to hit for himself, and he manages to get a solid single even though the umps who want to go home are calling outside pitches as "strikes" - and this ties it up because the guy on second, who had singled, easily scores. BUT, the replacement CF who is not a CF, bobbles the ball, but makes an accurate throw and the relay guy, trying to get the speedster coming around 3rd, throws it to the catcher, who doesn't know where eithe4r the ball or runner are, has a missed catch, a tag that wasn't and so winning run is scored on 2 errors. this is so SO much better than the usual boring home run walkoff.

i'm not sure it does beat game 6 2011 because the cards were down to their last strike TWICE and they hit that
   432. Snowboy Posted: October 25, 2020 at 01:51 AM (#5985207)
Most of you watched Fox's Joe Buck call.
Just as an alternative, check out Matt Vargersian's call on the international feed.
Matt Vasgersian’s call of the Brett Phillips Walkoff
   433. Howie Menckel Posted: October 25, 2020 at 01:53 AM (#5985208)
the previous World Series "walk off wins" on an error:

2013 Cardinals over Red Sox, Game 3
1986 Mets over Red Sox, Game 6
1969 Mets over Orioles, Game 4
1914 Boston Braves over Philly A's, Game 3

so
Red Sox
Red Sox and Mets
Mets
the other Miracle Team before..... the Mets
   434. Snowboy Posted: October 25, 2020 at 02:36 AM (#5985209)
Slightly longer video and better quality of the international coverage:
Dodgers commit two errors as Brett Phillips walks-off Game 4 for Tampa Bay
   435. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 25, 2020 at 02:52 AM (#5985210)
#434: “This video is restricted from playing in your current geographic region“
   436. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: October 25, 2020 at 03:25 AM (#5985211)
Worst (hardest?) boners on that last play, ranked by a combination of the ease of the play, the impact on the play, and the level of badness:

1. Muncy's relay - he had the easiest job: Taylor gave him a throw right on the money and he had a 45-foot throw that just had to be on the third base side of home plate.
2. Smith's [lack of a] catch - I know he was trying to put a swipe tag down quickly, but you can't tag anyone without the ball, and if he catches it, we're going to extras.
3. Taylor's bobble - I know he's trying to save the game, but he also has to be aware that there was no way he was getting that out at home; he just needed to field it cleanly. I originally had this at #2, but I'll grant him some leeway for an aggressive play that he thought could have saved the game.
4. Arozarena's stumble - Personally, I think this is all moot if he doesn't stumble. I think he scores unless the throw is perfect. He was flying.
5. Jansen not backing up home - This is bad and dumb, but I think has almost no impact on what happened. If he's in the right spot, he's not going to get to the ball quick enough to get it back to Smith.
6. Rob Manfred - Just because
7. Phillips continuing to run - I honestly don't care about this, but I feel like SOSH is going to say something if I don't include it.
   437. TomH Posted: October 25, 2020 at 06:12 AM (#5985213)
As I try to find how the play was officially scored, it is unclear.

Boxscore on ESPN shows one error (Taylor), and one earned run.

Play by play states both runners scored on Taylor error. Which would mean both unearned, but I suppose that is incorrect.

No error on Smith then? They assume Arozarena would have been safe?
   438. SoSH U at work Posted: October 25, 2020 at 08:34 AM (#5985215)
7. Phillips continuing to run - I honestly don't care about this, but I feel like SOSH is going to say something if I don't include it.


Damn right. There was no upside, all risk. Going to second was foolish, because his run didn't count. But when he got to second, hesitated and then took off for third, there were three possibilities - Arozarena is safe at the plate and the game is over; Arozarena is out at the plate, and the game is going to the 10th, or the only option that truly matters, Arozarena scrambles back to third, only to find another runner already there.

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad he was on the move, as it was the impetus for him to do his little kid flying run out into the outfield (meeting two of my conditions for fun celebrations - joyous and unscripted). But it was unquestionably bad baserunning.

   439. SoSH U at work Posted: October 25, 2020 at 08:38 AM (#5985216)
No error on Smith then? They assume Arozarena would have been safe?


You really could only grant one error, because only one extra base was taken (well, two, but Phillips obviously advanced to second on Taylor's miscue).

The lead runner was going to score - two out hit and he's on second. It's safe to assume Arozarena was going to get to third. It was Taylor's boot that allowed him to try to score, so that's who the sole error went to.

If this were the eighth inning, then Smith would have also gotten an error for allowing Phillips to get to third.
   440. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: October 25, 2020 at 09:24 AM (#5985218)
Phillips going to second makes sense, if and only if he knew that he was 100% sure. He can’t assume Arozarena is going to score, so if he got back to third, second and third is marginally better than first and third.

Going for third, of course, could not help the cause.
   441. SoSH U at work Posted: October 25, 2020 at 09:44 AM (#5985219)
Phillips going to second makes sense, if and only if he knew that he was 100% sure. He can’t assume Arozarena is going to score, so if he got back to third, second and third is marginally better than first and third.


Yes, but if he had stayed at first, he could have just taken second on the first pitch to the next hitter, as the Dodgers would have been unlikely to hold him on (particularly with a lefthanded batter at the plate).

Also, with a lefthanded hitter coming up, the typical benefit to being on first rather than second is virtually eliminated (a ball hit to the left side where the only play is the force at second).
   442. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 25, 2020 at 09:54 AM (#5985220)
Trivia question:

Since the end of WW2, there have been at least 9 World Series games** where the home team trailed going into its final at bat, either in the last of the 9th or in an extra inning, and came back in that same inning to win on a walkoff. Last night's game was the 9th. How many others can you name? (Hint: Among them there was one Game 1, four Games 4 [including last night's], three Games 6, and one Game 7.)

NOTE: I'm not talking about teams that came back to tie the game in the last of the 9th, and then won in extra innings. IOW that classic Game 6 in 2011 wouldn't make the list, because entering the last of the 11th the game was tied.

** There may have been more, but I can't think of them.
   443. SoSH U at work Posted: October 25, 2020 at 10:06 AM (#5985221)
Dodgers-A's was the Game 1.

Obviously 1986 was one of the Game 6s.

I believe 2011 (Cards-Rangers) was another Game 6.

Edit: 2011 was not.
   444. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: October 25, 2020 at 10:08 AM (#5985222)
Game 4: 111 events (again, that's AB + BB + pitching changes + side changes) in 250 minutes, or a painful 2.25 MPE. (Typical modern game: 1.5, typical playoff game: 2.0, typical Red Sox-Yankees game: ∞.)
   445. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: October 25, 2020 at 10:10 AM (#5985223)
   446. SoSH U at work Posted: October 25, 2020 at 10:15 AM (#5985224)
Game 6 in 1993.
   447. Red Voodooin Posted: October 25, 2020 at 10:32 AM (#5985225)
Maz doesn't count. They didn't trail heading into the bottom of the 9th. The game 7 has to be 2001.
   448. Howie Menckel Posted: October 25, 2020 at 10:43 AM (#5985226)
LA Times headline today:

ROCKY PITCHER HORROR SHOW
   449. bearcat97 Posted: October 25, 2020 at 10:48 AM (#5985228)
1985 World Series Game 6
   450. Howie Menckel Posted: October 25, 2020 at 10:50 AM (#5985229)
Katie Sharp
@ktsharp
·
11h
Pedro Baez in Postseason Since 2019:

6 inherited runners
6 inherited runners scored
   451. cardsfanboy Posted: October 25, 2020 at 10:59 AM (#5985230)
Phillips took off for third. Hell, he shouldn't have run to second.


He definitely should have run to second, but he should have planted himself there. In reality it was just the speed of the play on how he reacted, but a potential case scenario is that he is on second and Arozarena is on third, him making a move to third at all creates a possibility that he will block Arozarena from returning to third and him getting caught off of second base.

But staying at first and if Arozarena ends up at third, it creates a force play at second for the next batter, eliminating that option helps the odds of getting a walk off run.

Mind you, these are small chances and in the heat of the moment, instinct takes over.


   452. cardsfanboy Posted: October 25, 2020 at 11:00 AM (#5985233)
I am curious, I'm am assuming that Arozarena will still be a rookie next season(I might be wrong on that) if so, he will probably forever own the record for most games played in the post season by a "rookie". And definitely own the record for most games played in the post season before losing his rookie status.
   453. bearcat97 Posted: October 25, 2020 at 11:10 AM (#5985234)
1947 World Series Game 4 Cookie Lavagetto walk off hit to break Bill Bevins no hitter
   454. SoSH U at work Posted: October 25, 2020 at 11:14 AM (#5985235)
But staying at first and if Arozarena ends up at third, it creates a force play at second for the next batter, eliminating that option helps the odds of getting a walk off run.


No, if he stays at first, he takes off on the very first pitch to the next hitter, since the Dodgers aren't holding him. Or, they thank the Dodgers for holding him because it opens up a larger hole for the lefthanded hitter up next to pull the ball through.
   455. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 25, 2020 at 11:15 AM (#5985236)
Dodgers-A's was the Game 1.

Right.

------------

one Game 7

Got Maz into the Hall, it did.


That game was tied when the Pirates came up to back in the last of the 9th.

-----------

Game 6 in 1993.

Right. Carter's walkoff brought them from behind.

----------

Maz doesn't count. They didn't trail heading into the bottom of the 9th. The game 7 has to be 2001.

Sad but true.

----------

1985 World Series Game 6

AKA The Denkinger Game / The Whitey's Aneurysm Game

So that's 4 down, 4 to go. One of them is screamingly obvious, one of the others is one of the most written about games in WS history, and the last two are kind of under the radar, even though one of them featured a double comeback and the other took place in one of the five greatest World Series of all time.

   456. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 25, 2020 at 11:16 AM (#5985237)
1947 World Series Game 4 Cookie Lavagetto walk off hit to break Bill Bevins no hitter

Very good. Three to go.
   457. PeteF3 Posted: October 25, 2020 at 11:34 AM (#5985240)
Mets-Red Sox Game 6, of course. Mets were down 2 entering the 10th.

   458. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 25, 2020 at 11:54 AM (#5985242)
Right, the Schiraldi-Stanley-Buckner game. The last two are the hardest.
   459. JJ1986 Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:11 PM (#5985243)
It sure would be nice to have like a 4:00 Sunday game so kids could watch the whole thing.
   460. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:41 PM (#5985245)
I'm still glowing from how awesome that game was.

One fun thing about that last play was that it was going to involve either a collective conradian catastrophe (as actually happened), or else a tootblan. After he fell down there was no way Arozerana was getting back to third. We were going to check something off the list one way or another.

If tonight's game is half as good as this one, I'll be satisfied.
   461. PeteF3 Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:57 PM (#5985248)
One to go: 1972 World Series Game 4. A's beat the Reds 3-2 after entering the 9th down 2-1 (and after entering the 8th up 1-0).

Bill James' recap of the 1985 World Series includes a rundown of all the times either team (home or away) had come back to win in their final AB when trailing entering the inning, up to that point. I remember him writing about the A's doing it to the Reds but had to look up to see if the game was in Oakland or Cincinnati.
   462. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: October 25, 2020 at 01:13 PM (#5985249)
One to go: 1972 World Series Game 4. A's beat the Reds 3-2 after entering the 9th down 2-1 (and after entering the 8th up 1-0).

Right, and that's the most obscure game. The remaining game is also largely forgotten, but it was still pretty damn exciting, since the losing team had itself staged a comeback to tie the game in the top of the 9th that was even more dramatic than what Tino and Brosius did in 2001. Only in this case it was met with stunned silence on the part of the home crowd, rather than pandemonium.
   463. Itchy Row Posted: October 25, 2020 at 01:14 PM (#5985250)
And definitely own the record for most games played in the post season before losing his rookie status.
Francisco Rodriguez is probably the pitcher version of that. He had 11 appearances and 5 wins in the 2002 postseason and he was a rookie the next year.
   464. cardsfanboy Posted: October 25, 2020 at 01:20 PM (#5985253)
Francisco Rodriguez is probably the pitcher version of that. He had 11 appearances and 5 wins in the 2002 postseason and he was a rookie the next year.


I was originally thinking Todd Worrell had a shot at that title, but only had 7 appearances in 1985(won the Roy in '86)
   465. Doug Jones threw harder than me Posted: October 25, 2020 at 01:23 PM (#5985254)
Matt Vasgersian’s call of the Brett Phillips Walkoff


Santa Maria!
   466. puck Posted: October 25, 2020 at 01:39 PM (#5985257)
Dec 22 is interesting in that many expected the season to start up again with the Dec 25 games but the initial interviews mentioned late Jan and possibly early Feb.

I guess they were playing nice and waiting to discuss this with the players association once the Finals and bubble energy had a chance to die down? No sense trying to stir anything up while still playing the Finals.
   467. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: October 25, 2020 at 01:47 PM (#5985258)
LA Times headline today:

ROCKY PITCHER HORROR SHOW


I would have assumed that the Denver newspapers had trademarked that headline by now.
   468. puck Posted: October 25, 2020 at 02:38 PM (#5985260)
#466, wow, wrong thread.

I hope the bonkers nature of the final play doesn't overshadow the game too much. It was a great game for a long time* before that last play. (*Just your usual 4:10 9-inning post-season game.)
   469. TomH Posted: October 25, 2020 at 03:04 PM (#5985266)
I have not seen a replay of Arozarena running, but I thought he might be a dead duck at third if Taylor picks it up cleanly and throws there. Shorter throw than to home. But which error let Aroz score? The boot in CF helped, but he still was gonna be out at home until the catcher muffed it, so it seems like an there.
   470. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 25, 2020 at 03:29 PM (#5985268)
. . . or the only option that truly matters, Arozarena scrambles back to third, only to find another runner already there.
C’mon, the Dodgers would have almost certainly thrown the ball into left field trying to make a play at 3rd. They had that Little League thing going. Too much momentum for anything to right the ship.
   471. SoSH U at work Posted: October 25, 2020 at 03:33 PM (#5985269)
But which error let Aroz score? The boot in CF helped, but he still was gonna be out at home until the catcher muffed it, so it seems like an there.


Both, obviously. Without Taylor's boot, he's not trying for home. Without the poor/throw catch combo, he's out somewhere between home and third. You could, conceivably, give Taylor an error for allowing Phillips to reach second and Smith an error for failing to catch the ball (while it was on the wrong side of home, it was definitely catchable), which would seem to sum the play more completely. The problem is the scorekeeper really doesn't care about whatever Phillips was up to.
   472. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: October 25, 2020 at 03:44 PM (#5985270)
Damn right. There was no upside, all risk. Going to second was foolish, because his run didn't count. But when he got to second, hesitated and then took off for third, there were three possibilities - Arozarena is safe at the plate and the game is over; Arozarena is out at the plate, and the game is going to the 10th, or the only option that truly matters, Arozarena scrambles back to third, only to find another runner already there.

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad he was on the move, as it was the impetus for him to do his little kid flying run out into the outfield (meeting two of my conditions for fun celebrations - joyous and unscripted). But it was unquestionably bad baserunning.


I'll agree on trying to take third. There was no reason to do that. Although I also don't think it mattered in the slightest. Even if Arozarena got in a rundown, Phillips would have had plenty of time to return to second. So while it was a mistake, it was so inconsequential as to barely register.

But I don't think taking second was a mistake. I think staying out of the force play was the right instinct, and there was no way that "I should stay on first because a left-handed batter is up next" went through his mind. Or should have gone through his mind. I also don't think, if he stayed on first, that he would have dared try to take second, even if they didn't hold him. There's no reason to take the risk with the winning run on second.
   473. asinwreck Posted: October 25, 2020 at 03:45 PM (#5985271)
But it was unquestionably bad baserunning.

Agreed, and here it is important to note that the reason he was in the game in the first place was to pinch-run.
As Joaquín Andújar said, youneverknow.
   474. The Yankee Clapper Posted: October 25, 2020 at 03:52 PM (#5985273)
Did Muncy even need to cut off the throw to home? Looked OK to me, but hard to tell for sure. Is there a Statcast reading on it?
   475. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: October 25, 2020 at 05:05 PM (#5985277)
Saw a good discussion about this. Sean Casey felt it was the right play based on what you're typically looking for with an inbound throw. He was more into emphasizing Muncy throwing a change up to will Smith which caused the problem for Smith.
   476. Brian White Posted: October 25, 2020 at 05:06 PM (#5985278)
Did Muncy even need to cut off the throw to home? Looked OK to me, but hard to tell for sure. Is there a Statcast reading on it?


Yes, the throw needed to be cut off since it was way up the first base line. Here's an image of right when the throw was cut off - Will Smith was headed towards where the throw was going before it was cut off, which is why he's so far from home:

https://i.imgur.com/Sb7pp6M.png

Also, perhaps Muncy didn't quite anticipate Smith moving off home in anticipation of the throw not being cut. He turned around and threw to where Smith was standing, except Smith was a moving target as he tried to get back to the plate. Muncy didn't realize he was going to have to throw to a moving target when he made the relay, which is why the throw was up the first base line.
   477. Howie Menckel Posted: October 25, 2020 at 05:58 PM (#5985283)
He had 11 appearances and 5 wins in the 2002 postseason and he was a rookie the next year.


Todd Worrell had 7 appearances for 11 innings with 1 win and 1 save in 1985, back when there were only 2 rounds and not 3. K-Rod had 1 additional appearance over Worrell in CS and WS play in those years.

and not only was Worrell still a rookie in 1986, he WON the NL Rookie of the Year Award that year.

and side props to Gregg Jefferies for finishing 6th in 1988 NL ROY voting and then 3rd in 1989 NL ROY voting - at the ages of 20 and 21, no less. he had 32 postseason PA in 1988.

   478. shoelesjoe Posted: October 25, 2020 at 06:47 PM (#5985285)
Jansen not backing up home


I haven’t seen any video that shows this, but I’m guessing Jansen’s first instinct when the ball landed in CF was that the subsequent play was going to be Taylor throwing to third in an attempt to get Arozarena. If I’m correct then Jansen’s position when all hell broke loose was around third base and the Rays’ dugout. Once Taylor booted the ball and the play shifted to home plate Jansen had no time to get to the backstop and back that up. And even if he had backed up home plate from the get go he’d have had no chance to save the day since Smith slapped the throw from Muncy towards the Dodger dugout where nobody was going to be backing him up.
   479. Rally Posted: October 25, 2020 at 07:20 PM (#5985287)
When assessing blame for the last play, Some of has to be Jansen’s pitch location. He had a 1-2 count on a guy who is not a good hitter. I was thinking he needed to climb the ladder or get him to chase something in the dirt. The actual pitch was belt high about 3 inches towards the batter away from direct center. Way too much of the plate.

I hope Kershaw has another good game so the narrative doesn’t turn back to him being a choker.
   480. Itchy Row Posted: October 25, 2020 at 07:27 PM (#5985288)
I feel like somebody is going to win this game 13-1, but Game Six will be amazing. Then Game Seven will be 11-2. No idea which team wins, though.
   481. baxter Posted: October 25, 2020 at 08:23 PM (#5985292)
479 Agree re Kershaw. But, watching the top half of 1st, can see him giving it back in the bottom half; the way he pitches in October.

I hope he proves it wrong.
   482. The Duke Posted: October 25, 2020 at 08:30 PM (#5985293)
Dodgers going deep in Counts. Glasgow pitching like he’s closing out the game, not like needing to go 6-7 innings.
   483. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: October 25, 2020 at 08:33 PM (#5985294)
And even if he had backed up home plate from the get go he’d have had no chance to save the day since Smith slapped the throw from Muncy towards the Dodger dugout where nobody was going to be backing him up.


They asked him about not backing up home during the pre-game, and this is basically what he said.

Incidentally, on the basis of a two minute interview, Jansen seems like a likable and thoughtful guy. There were some cliches in there, but it was about ten times better than usual ball player interviews.
   484. Tin Angel Posted: October 25, 2020 at 08:37 PM (#5985295)
Certainly either Kershaw or the Dodgers can afford to have his cap cleaned?
   485. The Duke Posted: October 25, 2020 at 08:38 PM (#5985296)
Wow - almost blasts a 2 run HR, and then a DP. Gods smiling on Kersh
   486. baxter Posted: October 25, 2020 at 08:41 PM (#5985297)
About 3 feet away from post season form.
   487. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: October 25, 2020 at 08:42 PM (#5985298)
I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that tonight's game will not be as exciting as last night's.
   488. puck Posted: October 25, 2020 at 08:42 PM (#5985299)
So maybe this game will not be so exciting.
   489. Rally Posted: October 25, 2020 at 08:43 PM (#5985300)
So far, yeah, but we’ve got a long way to go

Pederson makes it 3-0
   490. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: October 25, 2020 at 08:44 PM (#5985301)
What's wrong with Glasnow? Dude doesn't have it tonight.
   491. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: October 25, 2020 at 08:47 PM (#5985302)
Looks like he might have gotten away with pushing Barnes’ foot off the bag...but it was probably Barnes’ own momentum
   492. puck Posted: October 25, 2020 at 08:48 PM (#5985303)
Barnes in dugout: hah, I thought there was supposed to be a delay for that.
   493. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: October 25, 2020 at 08:48 PM (#5985304)
I know it's only the second inning, but it's already time to bring out one of those comically long shepherd's hooks.
   494. baxter Posted: October 25, 2020 at 08:49 PM (#5985305)
Guy can't find the plate and you risk outs.
   495. The Duke Posted: October 25, 2020 at 08:50 PM (#5985306)

50 pitches and three runs for glasnow. He has two innings at the most left
   496. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: October 25, 2020 at 08:52 PM (#5985307)
I heart bunts.
   497. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 25, 2020 at 09:04 PM (#5985310)
Tyler Glasnow chokes in the postseason.
   498. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: October 25, 2020 at 09:06 PM (#5985311)
Teams really need to keep some relief pitchers around who can eat innings. Why not have one of your guys work on endurance, so if the starter craps the bed, or if the game goes 18 innings, you've got somebody on hand who can give you four or five innings? Probably one of your less good relievers, don't use him much but have him put in lots of non-game work. It seems like having a guy like this around would be better than chewing up your relievers on consecutive days, or bringing in position players in extremely long games.
   499. phredbird Posted: October 25, 2020 at 09:12 PM (#5985313)

381. phredbird Posted: October 25, 2020 at 12:22 AM (#5985156)

jensen was way out of position.



i just want to brag that i was the first to mention this ... but seeing the replays a bunch of times, it looks like it would have taken a helluva play by jansen to get arozarena, so ...

what a cluster fudge that was.
   500. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: October 25, 2020 at 09:14 PM (#5985314)
Relievers who can give you 4-5 reliable innings are now starters.
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