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Saturday, May 21, 2022

Yankees, White Sox benches clear after Josh Donaldson calls Tim Anderson ‘Jackie’ Robinson

“He made a racist comment, Donaldson, and that’s all I’m gonna say,” La Russa said.

Anderson later revealed what Donaldson said to him, telling reporters that the Yankees third baseman called him “Jackie Robinson” on multiple occasions throughout the game.

He just made a disrespectful comment,” Anderson said. “Basically was trying to call me Jackie Robinson, like ‘what’s up Jackie?’ I don’t play like that. I don’t really play at all. I wasn’t really gonna bother nobody today. But he made the comment, and it was disrespectful. I don’t think it was called for.”

Anderson then said that Donaldson called him Jackie “the first time he got on” and later repeated it.

“I spared him that time, and then it happened again,” Anderson continued.

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: May 21, 2022 at 10:20 PM | 66 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: josh donaldson, tim anderson

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   1. Hombre Brotani Posted: May 21, 2022 at 11:57 PM (#6077872)
The nicest thing I've read teammates say about Donaldson is that he's "intense," which basically means that no one has any actual nice things to say about Donaldson.
   2. Howie Menckel Posted: May 21, 2022 at 11:59 PM (#6077873)
ok, hectic day included a 3-hour power failure tonight and other yadas but...


I am not a fan of Donaldson - he strikes me as kind of a douche bag. that said:

I heard his post-game comments. he seemed genuinely confused. he said back in 2019, after the comments by Anderson that he wanted - in a few respects - to be sort of like another Jackie Robinson in terms of generating more excitement in the game (yes, please!), Donaldson several times talked to Anderson and referred to him as "Jackie." he said that Anderson got a kick out of it, basically.

Donaldson said, "I don't know what has changed since then" - and, well, I think you guys mercifully do combat in your Discord channel so I am not going there, here.

this is the first "if I said something offensive, I am sorry" comment that I didn't completely roll my eyes at, ever.

Donaldson strikes me as utterly tone deaf/clueless. and he seems a little young for that - even though he's not so young in baseball years.

there's the old cliche about "reading the temperature in the room." and Josh, the temperature is pretty high these days.

again, the whys and hows and all that is for another forum. but Donaldson blew it - and the odious La Russa only made it worse, obviously.

I'd love to hear that Anderson and Donaldson work it out before Sunday's game, maybe even an on-field handshake or something, given that I do think Donaldson realizes he messed up.

not holding my breath, but a kid can dream.....

   3. Bull Pain Posted: May 22, 2022 at 12:37 AM (#6077876)
Atlanta didn't play the White Sox in 2019 so unless they somehow spoke in another setting, I don't buy that excuse.

Donaldson and Anderson were in the same division in 2020 and 2021 and it would seem the Jackie thing never came up.

Donaldson and Anderson had a blowup last week on a play at 3rd base and somehow Donaldson didn't call him Jackie then.

Hard to see how Donaldson isn't a giant piece of garbage here.
   4. geonose Posted: May 22, 2022 at 01:01 AM (#6077878)
@Bull Pain
Atlanta & the White Sox played in 2019 on August 30-31 and September 1.
   5. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 22, 2022 at 01:15 AM (#6077879)
If you rather presumptuously proclaim yourself “today’s Jackie Robinson”, some kidding, or even mocking, might be expected, although given the current climate, it probably would have been wiser for Donaldson to avoid the issue.
   6. sunday silence (again) Posted: May 22, 2022 at 01:29 AM (#6077883)
wow Jackie Robinson's image sure has taken a nose dive.
   7. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: May 22, 2022 at 03:10 AM (#6077887)
Here is some info on what Clapper is referencing:

According to Donaldson, he took to calling Anderson "Jackie" as a rib after Anderson invoked Robinson during an interview he did with Sports Illustrated's Stephanie Apstein in May 2019. Here's the full excerpt from that interview:

"I kind of feel like today's Jackie Robinson," he says. "That's huge to say. But it's cool, man, because he changed the game, and I feel like I'm getting to a point to where I need to change the game."

It should be noted that Anderson's quote came in the middle of an article where the main topic at hand was the isolation he feels as a Black man playing a sport that is predominantly played, managed, and governed by white men.


link

wiser for Donaldson to avoid the issue.

Same goes for you and the tone-deaf Menckel.
   8. . Posted: May 22, 2022 at 06:58 AM (#6077888)
There's a group of people out there who typically don't spend a lot of time on the internet bloviating about things like this and those people, as I do, see Tim Anderson as a man in full. A flesh and blood human being. As a result, Tim Anderson may be in the right and may be in the wrong, or more likely somewhere in between. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, though he very well may have overreacted -- again, as all flesh and blood human beings are prone to do.

There's also a far smaller group of people out there who spend an inordinate amount of time on the internet bloviating about things like this, and demonstrating their internet heroism for all to see. They tend not to view people as individual human beings.
   9. Lassus Posted: May 22, 2022 at 07:26 AM (#6077889)
who spend an inordinate amount of time on the internet bloviating about things like this

Mirror
   10. . . . . . . Posted: May 22, 2022 at 08:30 AM (#6077890)
If someone called me a Koufax on the field, I would’ve gone way more apeshit than Tim Anderson did. Frankly I think he exhibited exquisite restraint. Donaldson should be thrown at, repeatedly, until MLB pulls him off the field for his own safety.
   11. . Posted: May 22, 2022 at 08:57 AM (#6077893)
If Donaldson had used it in the sense of synedoche and with the article "a," as in the hypo then sure, obviously. But in this case, the leader in the clubhouse by quite a distance is bench jockeying a pretty serious case of well-known public grandiosity. Athletes and humans in general tend to do that pretty frequently. But the virtues of reasonableness and moderation imply open-mindedeness and the leader in the clubhouse may wind up being wrong.
   12. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 22, 2022 at 09:39 AM (#6077895)
If someone called me a Koufax on the field, I would’ve gone way more apeshit than Tim Anderson did.

But you're allowed to call yourself a Koufax, and nobody's allowed to remind you of it without your written approval. Nice work if you can get it.

Frankly I think he exhibited exquisite restraint. Donaldson should be thrown at, repeatedly, until MLB pulls him off the field for his own safety.

Troll of the Year award for that one.

Here's my prediction: Nothing will happen today except two baseball games. You've got two fierce competitors who had a typical baseball encounter at third base last week, an encounter which likely happens scores of times a year, but from the sound of it you'd think this was the start of World War III. Just give it a rest.
   13. winnipegwhip Posted: May 22, 2022 at 10:31 AM (#6077899)
White Sox manager Tommy Lasorda should not have whined as usual.
   14. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: May 22, 2022 at 11:48 AM (#6077902)
But you're allowed to call yourself a Koufax, and nobody's allowed to remind you of it without your written approval. Nice work if you can get it.

Indeed. If Mike Trout had called himself the new Mickey Mantle at some point, I would have expected him to hear "nice swing Mick!" every time he struck out.
   15. . . . . . . Posted: May 22, 2022 at 12:23 PM (#6077906)
"But you're allowed to call yourself a Koufax, and nobody's allowed to remind you of it without your written approval. Nice work if you can get it."

I dOnT UNdersTaND WhY I caNT SaY THe N wORd??!1!
   16. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: May 22, 2022 at 12:35 PM (#6077908)
I'm not up on the latest social justice stuff, but I wasn’t aware that "Koufax" was an ethnic slur.
   17. Howie Menckel Posted: May 22, 2022 at 12:54 PM (#6077916)
Same goes for you and the tone-deaf Menckel.

would have been helpful for you to hint at whether I was too tough on Donaldson, or too soft.
someone possessing a tone would know that, of course (ah, the irony)
   18. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: May 22, 2022 at 01:09 PM (#6077922)
I'm not up on the latest social justice stuff, but I wasn’t aware that "Koufax" was an ethnic slur.


I think it's in the "smooth move, Ferguson" genre.
   19. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: May 22, 2022 at 01:10 PM (#6077923)
would have been helpful for you to hint at whether I was too tough on Donaldson, or too soft.


I vote "too soft". Also, that's what she said.
   20. John Northey Posted: May 22, 2022 at 01:19 PM (#6077927)
I think everything is based on context here. Anderson calling himself Jackie Robinson was based on a small part of an interview where various things were brought up - it was a poor analogy imo, but 99% of people forgot it outside of Donaldson. Josh appears to be the type of guy who would drive most nuts if they knew him - the type who makes a bad joke, then repeats it ad nauseum for months until someone tells him to stick it up his butt, then gets offended when you tell him that.

When Donaldson played here in Toronto he was easy to cheer for as he seemed intense and very talented, but I get a feeling the more I hear that he is more the Cobb type - someone other players love as long as he keeps hitting the crap out of the ball, but the moment he doesn't they are very happy to see him go away.
   21. Howie Menckel Posted: May 22, 2022 at 01:22 PM (#6077929)
"I am not a fan of Donaldson - he strikes me as kind of a douche bag."

"Donaldson strikes me as utterly tone deaf/clueless."

"there's the old cliche about "reading the temperature in the room." and Josh, the temperature is pretty high these days."

"Donaldson blew it"

.........

apologies for my not calling for an immediate beheading - perhaps that would have appeased the tiresome scolds here.

perhaps. they are tough to please, obviously.
   22. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: May 22, 2022 at 01:27 PM (#6077931)
Trying to make sure I've got the facts straight, to the extent it is possible to do so without being one of the two players involved:

1) Donaldson is clearly calling Anderson, specifically, "Jackie" because of the 2019 SI article. Nobody is suggesting that he has called other Black players "Jackie", or anything else, for that matter - right? Because if there was a second Black player where he was doing something like that, it would get far more grave for Donaldson immediately. That may be an obvious point, but I haven't seen it actually made or confirmed anywhere, and it suggests to me that Donaldson may be tone deaf, socially inept, a jerk, not smart, and/or a bunch of other unflatteringly descriptors - but not some systematic racist.

2) I saw Donaldson's 90-second or so comment at the press gaggle after the game. Somebody on this thread said he looked genuinely very confused and surprised that this had exploded, and that may be true. That gets at motives and explanations, which are always tougher to ascertain than the action or the words themselves - so I'll just comment on what we can actually see. He was rather inarticulate, halting, vague, hesitant, and unscripted. He sounded like somebody who is not very bright, and definitely inarticulate. He has been asked to make comments about more mundane matters ("What kind of pitch did you hit for that big home run, Josh?"), so it's not like a regular person who gets a bunch of microphones stuck in front of their face because they happened to see a bridge collapse nearby on their way home from work. Donaldson should be better at this than he was, because it would have much better for him to simply say, as part of his comments, the following: "I was wrong, and I am sorry." It is amazing how far in public life you can go if you can humbly and authentically say these seven words when you make a mistake.

3) I think I understand the context of Anderson's 2019 comments, where he clearly called himself "today's Jackie Robinson," followed immediately by "That's huge to say. But it's cool, man..." He didn't take it back - he meant it to be as "big" as it initially sounds, because he immediately acknowledged that the reader should take it as big as it sounds.

That strikes me as a very odd thing to say. I mean, when I googled "Jackie Robinson," the first entry described him as "one of the most inspirational and towering figures of the 20th century". Baseball itself was a waaaay bigger deal in the 1940s and 50s than it is today in American culture. It would be almost impossible for any baseball player to be in the same cultural area code as Jackie Robinson. In terms of Black baseball players, if Anderson was trying to get at rejuvenating interest in the Black community in baseball, or developing more public faces of the sport who are Black, or something along those lines...why would Tim Anderson be the guy to take that on? He's a very good player, but he is not going to the Hall of Fame or anything, and he is certainly not a known person in broader American culture - or even casual sports fandom. I don't think anybody is "today's Jackie Robinson", because that would be about impossible, but if you were trying to assign the role to somebody, wouldn't it be somebody more like...Mookie Betts, who is a much better known person in the country, is on a Hall of Fame path, plays for (along with the Yankees) the marquee franchise of the sport (and the same one Robinson played for!), and is arguably the most exciting player in the sport? Donaldson messed up on some yet-to-be-determined level here, but does anybody else think Anderson's comment is, at a minimum, very unusual?
   23. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: May 22, 2022 at 01:35 PM (#6077934)
22..I don't disagree with anything you posted, but I'll repeat what I've said several times already: The interview was from 2019. It's time for Josh Donaldson to let that go. It's eye rollingly tedious to bring that up over and over again, regardless of how Anderson may have taken it the first few times Donaldson said it to him (as Donaldson claims happened). Let it go.

It was hot in NYC yesterday. That may have contributed to Anderson's short fuse, too.
   24. Howie Menckel Posted: May 22, 2022 at 01:53 PM (#6077940)
interesting how different responses sometimes are here - often depending not on the tone, but on some past grudge against a particular poster.

was 22 "harder" than my post? obviously not, as I had zero criticism of Anderson and post 22 had plenty (and no, I'm not going to scold a poster for offering a different angle on an issue).

"let it go" - physician, heal thyself.
   25. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: May 22, 2022 at 01:58 PM (#6077942)
"let it go" - physician, heal thyself.


If this is about the "Dancing Monkey" stuff...eat ####.


If it's about Donaldson/Anderson, I have no idea what you mean.
   26. JimMusComp misses old primer... Posted: May 22, 2022 at 02:04 PM (#6077945)
It was hot in NYC yesterday. That may have contributed to Anderson's short fuse, too.


Not likely, according to Dusty Baker.

It’s more likely Josh was being a douche and got his fee fee’s hurt when he was called out on it.
   27. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: May 22, 2022 at 02:12 PM (#6077947)
26...well, Grandal got in Donaldson's face, gave him a talking to for at least 10 seconds before Donaldson even said anything...he just took it. He knew he pissed off the White Sox. I think he's an idiot for starting something that ended up biting him on his ass.
   28. Cris E Posted: May 22, 2022 at 02:24 PM (#6077952)
#22 I think as a fairly popular black man with a long tenure on a team in Chicago he can claim some sort of stature within the the larger African-American community. I think Robinson is a monster marker to measure yourself against, but Anderson seems aware of the over-reach too and was quick to qualify it immediately, so no bad thoughts about 2019. I think giving him a hard time about it a la the Trout-Mantle example above might be OK, but A) it's not 2019 anymore so it would be weird, and B) Donaldson appears to be fairly tone-deaf in these things and didn't notice that it landed awkwardly and shouldn't have been repeated. Kind of a nothing burger until you realize that blowing up Josh for speaking thoughtlessly (again) fills media time with tasty clickbait.
   29. Tom Nawrocki Posted: May 22, 2022 at 02:35 PM (#6077953)
I think giving him a hard time about it a la the Trout-Mantle example above might be OK, but A) it's not 2019 anymore so it would be weird, and B) Donaldson appears to be fairly tone-deaf in these things and didn't notice that it landed awkwardly and shouldn't have been repeated.


Plus, some bad blood very publicly erupted between the two of them just a week earlier, so what felt like harmless needling in 2019 is going to come across very differently now.
   30. The Yankee Clapper Posted: May 22, 2022 at 03:21 PM (#6077971)
#22 I think as a fairly popular black man with a long tenure on a team in Chicago he can claim some sort of stature within the the larger African-American community.
Anderson compared himself to Jackie Robinson in April 2019, at the start of his first notable MLB season (and 4th of his career), when his stature was considerably less than it is today.
   31. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: May 22, 2022 at 03:24 PM (#6077974)
30...Anderson was waiver wire material in fantasy leagues until one year BOOM. He was considered near the weakest SS in MLB early inches career. Couldn't hit.
   32. tshipman Posted: May 22, 2022 at 03:31 PM (#6077979)
I know why it happens, but it's striking to me that there's more empathy displayed for Donaldson than Anderson here.

People are more critical of Anderson for comparing himself to someone he likely grew up with as a hero at a moment of peak accomplishment than they are of Donaldson.

And of course, most posters here can't imagine feeling like Jackie Robinson, while they are very aware of being afraid that someone will interpret some comment they they find harmless as racist.
   33. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: May 22, 2022 at 03:43 PM (#6077986)
I know why it happens, but it's striking to me that there's more empathy displayed for Donaldson than Anderson here.

Only because in 2022 being branded a racist is so disproportionately serious to being branded an arrogant jerk.
   34. rr would lock Shaq's a$$ up Posted: May 22, 2022 at 04:00 PM (#6077994)
Stuff like this is about context and speaker positioning. Anderson, or any other black player still around today, comparing himself to Jackie Robinson might not be a great idea, and if say, Dusty Baker or Doug Glanville (both of whom will probably be asked about this now) thought that it was not a great idea and wanted to talk to Anderson about that, fair enough. Also if LaRussa wanted to talk to Anderson about it as his manager and as a guy who has been around pro baseball for 60 years, maybe so. But a mouthy white player in his 30s widely-known for being kind of a hothead and a dick using it to smack-talk Anderson on the field is a really bad idea.

Given Clapper's politics, when he said "the current climate" he ofc probably meant all the nasty woke liberals. But "the current climate" means most likely means something a lot different to Tim Anderson and to many black people today than it does to a guy with Clapper's demographic profile and politics. And, ofc part of that context was Anderson responding to the fact that there are far fewer American blacks in MLB than there used to be. That topic has ofc been discussed ad nauseum here, but that is probably going to feel just a little different to Anderson than it will to a BTF poster.

   35. Starring Bradley Scotchman as RMc Posted: May 22, 2022 at 04:09 PM (#6077997)
But...the Negro Leagues are major leagues now! Doesn't that wipe all the racial animosity away...?
   36. Addie Joss Posted: May 22, 2022 at 04:42 PM (#6078004)
You can always depend on Tony La Russa to throw gasoline on the fire.
I am a very strong liberal who is disgusted by the true racism that I have observed in my seventy-four years and who believes that conservatives, some of whom are racist, have tried to cover up America's abysmal racist history.
Having said all that, I do not see Donaldson's needling of Anderson for the latter's somewhat egotistical self-comparison to the incomparable Jackie Robinson as a racist comment. It was the needling by one intense, competitive, emotional athlete of another intense, competitive, emotional athlete. And that didn't give Yasmani Grandal carte blanche to go nose to nose with Donaldson and start a bench clearing incident.
I do think that Donaldson tried to make a dirty play against Anderson last week when he pushed Anderson off the bag. But the ump was right on top of the play, did not call Anderson out, immediately told Donaldson "You pushed him," and jumped in between the two when Anderson (correctly) took offense. At some point, however, Anderson's sense of grievance needs to end.
   37. winnipegwhip Posted: May 22, 2022 at 05:57 PM (#6078024)
Could have been worse Donaldson could have said an abbreviated Hello and the racist term when seeing Anderson on an airplane.
   38. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 22, 2022 at 06:15 PM (#6078030)
Given Clapper's politics, when he said "the current climate" he ofc probably meant all the nasty woke liberals. But "the current climate" means most likely means something a lot different to Tim Anderson and to many black people today than it does to a guy with Clapper's demographic profile and politics. And, ofc part of that context was Anderson responding to the fact that there are far fewer American blacks in MLB than there used to be. That topic has ofc been discussed ad nauseum here, but that is probably going to feel just a little different to Anderson than it will to a BTF poster.

Of course it will, and I can see why Anderson reacted as he did, even though my default position isn't that Donaldson's comment was "racist". AFAIC this was mostly one of those Heat of Battle incidents that was instigated by Donaldson's play at third last week,** but I can't see it as being anything more than that once the weekend is over. OTOH it may be a good thing that the Yanks and the Sox won't see each other again for the rest of the regular season.

** Which was about on the level of a routine intentional hard foul in basketball. Dickish but not all that uncommon.
   39. Adam Starblind Posted: May 22, 2022 at 07:49 PM (#6078038)
One guy called himself “Today’s Jackie Robinson.” The other guy is teasing him about it three years later. Two grown men.

Have we considered the possibility that they are both douches?
   40. gef the talking mongoose, peppery hostile Posted: May 22, 2022 at 08:35 PM (#6078042)
Yes. But only one is a Yankee.
   41. dejarouehg Posted: May 22, 2022 at 08:51 PM (#6078044)
Would have been interesting to see Donaldson's chat with Stanton and Judge.

I'm surprised I didn't see any mention of A.J. Pierzynski (unless I missed it,) as in Tim Anderson is to Jackie as Donaldson is to A.J.

I don't find the lack of AA players in MLB any more troubling than I find a lack of American white players in the NBA. It's about opportunity and the black community - as a generality - has determined that, unfortunately, they don't particularly care for baseball.

The knee-jerk response to label a comment as racist I think could be an over-reaction..................except that I wouldn't ever give Donaldson the benefit of the doubt. He's a complete and utter d-bag and while I don't love all of Anderson's antics, he's grown on me and I find myself rooting for him.
   42. Jose is Absurdly Correct but not Helpful Posted: May 23, 2022 at 08:47 AM (#6078094)
Have we considered the possibility that they are both douches?


This is kind of where I come down. Donaldson is a ######### but I find Anderson pretty insufferable. To address tshipman's comment I don't have a particular problem with Anderson comparing himself to Jackie, it's an incredible level of hyperbole but whatever. But he needs to quit whining when someone uses it to give him ####. It's like hitters strutting around after a home run getting pissed off when pitchers bark at them. Take the good take the bad. Jo Polnaiczek would have understood.
   43. BDC Posted: May 23, 2022 at 09:28 AM (#6078097)
I dunno. With the caveat that none of us knows with any nuance what exactly was said or what the specific contexts …

To go back to the Koufax hypothetical. Young Jewish LHP says "With my blazing fastball, unhittable curve, and great mystique, I have to say, I am the new Koufax." A Gentile player hits a HR and taunts him "Hey Koufax!" He probably has to take the heat.

Young Jewish LHP declines to start on Rosh Hashanah, says "I kind of feel like the new Koufax here, but my faith is my priority." Later he starts on an ordinary Sabbath, and a Gentile player taunts him "Hey Koufax, why aren't you in your synagogue?"

And so with Anderson. People may be hearing him as saying "I can steal bases, play great infield, hit for power, win batting titles, plus I'm black, I think I'm the new Jackie Robinson!" But perhaps he is saying "Baseball is a deeply white culture and it can really make black players feel excluded, I feel like the new Jackie Robinson."

And in the latter case, a taunt means both "I'm not a racist, you black so-and-so," and "You don't get to decide if you're Jackie Robinson, your white audience does." I think that may cross a line. But I also think it's not really my call to say if it does.
   44. . Posted: May 23, 2022 at 10:06 AM (#6078101)
And so with Anderson. People may be hearing him as saying "I can steal bases, play great infield, hit for power, win batting titles, plus I'm black, I think I'm the new Jackie Robinson!" But perhaps he is saying "Baseball is a deeply white culture and it can really make black players feel excluded, I feel like the new Jackie Robinson."


Or rather than speculating, we could just read the interview itself (*) and if we do, we'll see that Tim was angling himself as the Jackie Robinson of bat flips.(**)

I kind of feel like today’s Jackie Robinson,” Anderson said to SI's Stephanie Apstein. “That’s huge to say. But it’s cool, man, because he changed the game, and I feel like I’m getting to a point to where I need to change the game."

Anderson did not say he is Robinson and he'll never face the same obstacles the Hall of Famer did when he broke the color barrier in 1947. The only barrier that Anderson says he is trying to break is the "have-fun barrier."


I certainly don't bemoan younger generations for the conceit that they're changing a world that drastically needs changing, but OTOH, hauling Jackie Robinson into your quest to make baseball safe for bat flips (***) seems a bit grandiose indeed. Donaldson is a mega-douche himself, and probably not the best guy to go mocking people, but there's nothing racist or even solemn in any of this.

(*) I'm going to go out a limb and take a wild guess that the interview was posted in real time here on BBTF.

(**) Thus the modifier, "today's Jackie Robinson"

(***) And for calling (white) pitchers, "weak ass ####### n------s," which is why he got the sitdown with SI in the first place. I personally have no issue with any of it, but none of it is even remotely Jackie Robinson stuff. It's clickbait for white people and an opportunity for white people to stroke their chins and virtue pose. That's big business these days -- thus the stories.

   45. . Posted: May 23, 2022 at 10:14 AM (#6078104)
"You don't get to decide if you're Jackie Robinson, your white audience does."


This presumes that the only people who would raise an eye at the rather silly invocation of Jackie Robinson would be white people. There's no evidence for that, and the only reason that thought would pop into someone's head is if that someone thought of the superficial reality of skin color as all-determinative. No Black person could think the invocation is silly? Come on, now -- let's be serious. Those people don't go on Twitter and Instagram and blab all day and thus remain unseen and inchoate. They absolutely exist. The belief that they don't is a social media illusion.

In point of empirical fact, the "black and brown people" who a ruinous segment of the left think need their virtuous protection are fleeing racial reductionist woke-ism about as fast as they can run. All the public opinion polls show it.
   46. chisoxcollector Posted: May 23, 2022 at 10:19 AM (#6078105)
I'm so glad we have you here to be a voice for all of the "black and brown people".
   47. Rally Posted: May 23, 2022 at 10:45 AM (#6078113)
Or rather than speculating, we could just read the interview itself (*) and if we do, we'll see that Tim was angling himself as the Jackie Robinson of bat flips.(**)


He’s no Jose Bautista.

And if that’s what Tim was comparing himself to Jackie for, I can see why Donaldson took issue. He was the runner on first when Jose did his epic bat flip.
   48. Ned Garvin: Male Prostitute Posted: May 23, 2022 at 04:39 PM (#6078168)
In case anyone is interested in actually hearing Tim Anderson talk about Jackie Robinson, and both of their experiences as Black men in baseball, here is an interview (also Mookie Betts) with the always-joyful Bob Kendrick that I highly recommend.
Black Diamonds interview
   49. winnipegwhip Posted: May 23, 2022 at 05:03 PM (#6078172)
Maybe in the 2019 interview Anderson was saying he supported Trump? Therefore he was the modern Jackie Robinson.
   50. . Posted: May 23, 2022 at 05:17 PM (#6078175)
In case anyone is interested in actually hearing Tim Anderson talk about Jackie Robinson, and both of their experiences as Black men in baseball, here is an interview (also Mookie Betts) with the always-joyful Bob Kendrick that I highly recommend.


That's a great podcast in general. Typically, conversations like these are better without the intervention and "interpretations" of white people. Stephanie Apstein's interpretation falls into this category.
   51. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: May 23, 2022 at 06:23 PM (#6078187)


Have we considered the possibility that they are both douches?


This makes sense.
   52. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: May 23, 2022 at 06:25 PM (#6078188)
But he needs to quit whining when someone uses it to give him ####.


Has anyone else called him "Jackie"? I hadn't heard of any other such incidents.
   53. Lassus Posted: May 23, 2022 at 06:36 PM (#6078191)
Typically, conversations like these are better without the intervention and "interpretations" of white people. Stephanie Apstein's interpretation falls into this category.

Weak effort. Troll harder.
   54. Lars6788 Posted: May 23, 2022 at 07:21 PM (#6078196)
I think it’s funny where Donaldson is busting Anderson’s chops by calling him Jackie.

I don’t think he meant it any other way that to talk a little bit of trash - but if he is going that direction, I don’t care if he is skewered because there are more people like he is saying the same weird thing and it does have a racial undertone to it.
   55. . Posted: May 23, 2022 at 08:26 PM (#6078206)
It looks like his own manager didn't really defend him at all and said he shouldn't have said it, which probably means everyone around him thinks he's something of a douche. Principle seems to be something like, "If you're a white doofus cracker, you can't be saying racist-adjacent things directly to people's face particularly when it involves a baseball saint." Thus, the suspension.

Seems about right.
   56. John DiFool2 Posted: May 23, 2022 at 09:03 PM (#6078219)
And now suspended a game.
   57. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 23, 2022 at 09:48 PM (#6078235)
A one game suspension tells you that MLB felt that they had to "do something", while at the same time signaling that the furor was overblown. If Donaldson had done something that was truly serious, he'd be out for a lot more than a single game.
   58. winnipegwhip Posted: May 23, 2022 at 10:19 PM (#6078244)
These people nowadays would be upset with Elston Howard trying to encourage Ed Ford to get through a tough inning with words of encouragement.
   59. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: May 24, 2022 at 07:32 AM (#6078268)
derp
   60. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: May 24, 2022 at 08:45 AM (#6078269)
Have we considered the possibility that they are both douches?


That could have been the greatest press release in MLB history. "We've analyzed the situation and concluded that Donaldson and Anderson are both douches. Cut it out guys. No action needed."
   61. . Posted: May 24, 2022 at 09:26 AM (#6078273)
I think if you listen to Anderson's podcast with Bob Kendrick, you'll conclude that much or all of his "douchiness" is culture-induced. By that, I mean that we live in a predominantly on-line, clickbait, attention-seeking culture that encourages and monetizes douchiness. Think of culture-independent douchiness as an analogue to fielding-independent pitching.

OTOH, there were all manner of Donaldson-esque douches under the immediate predecessor culture, who needed the encouragement and incentive of neither culture nor monetary self-interest. The kind of white doofus who would "joke" around with black guys and then misinterpret the black guy's response and then never let up were a dime a dozen pre-net.(*) Unlike Tim Anderson, someone like Donaldson and his predecessors would have a hard time sitting down and even paying attention long enough to have a serious interview/discussion with a Bob Kendrick or his white equivalent.

(*) Think of, at its extreme, something like "Wait til Otis sees us. He loves us!!" The predecessor culture held the archetype to be comedic fodder.
   62. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: May 24, 2022 at 02:40 PM (#6078304)
That's a great podcast in general. Typically, conversations like these are better without the intervention and "interpretations" of white people. Stephanie Apstein's interpretation falls into this category.

In my experience, podcasts are usually better without third-person "interpretations" in general. It's not a race thing, although it's more cringe-worthy when there's a racial dynamic to it. If you're going to interview someone, maybe give a brief intro with some context to your audience, but then just interview them and let them speak for themselves. There's no need for a third-person narrator to come in and explain what the interview subject meant afterwards.
   63. Hombre Brotani Posted: May 24, 2022 at 03:16 PM (#6078307)
Typically, conversations like these are better without the intervention and "interpretations" of white people.
This entire thread comes to mind.
   64. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: May 24, 2022 at 03:22 PM (#6078308)
Remember when Liam Gallagher, the lead man of the British band Oasis, said that Oasis "was the next Beatles"? Paul McCartney was asked about it later, and he said that it was "the kiss of death" for Oasis. He said that it was flattering when any band said it took inspiration from the Beatles, especially other British bands, but that it put so much pressure on Gallagher and Oasis that there was no way they could possibly not eventually look bad.

Well, this is what I mean by anybody saying they are going to be the next Jackie Robinson - no matter what the intent, or how successful the person is at trying to reach such a lofty goal, you're just not going to come out of that looking good.

And Josh Donaldson is about as unlikable as Liam Gallagher, which is saying a lot. The fact Donaldson is the one who said this makes the range of potential motives wider, and more nefarious.
   65. The Duke Posted: May 24, 2022 at 04:40 PM (#6078321)
Shildt and Richardson had a somewhat analogous moment earlier this year and it all went away because the two talked face to face the next day and aired out their differences. Why didn't someone facilitate that here? It's incredible to me that no one has attempted to defuse this and in most cases have tried to pour gas on the fire.

I'm shocked at how this story keeps going on.
   66. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: May 25, 2022 at 09:02 AM (#6078390)
I'm cynical, but wholly unsurprised. The media have to make sure that everyone's wearing the ribbon.

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