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Friday, June 04, 2021

You’ll never see eye to eye with OMNICHATTER! for June 4, 2021

Scoreboards for the Major Leagues and all minor leagues,
courtesy of Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee).

Shohei Brotani (formerly LA Hombre) Posted: June 04, 2021 at 05:36 AM | 46 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: omnichatter

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   1. Shohei Brotani (formerly LA Hombre) Posted: June 04, 2021 at 02:56 PM (#6022557)
HOW WILL THE ANGELS LOSE TODAY?!
   2. TomH Posted: June 04, 2021 at 07:22 PM (#6022602)
Devers crushes a 429 ft HR to right; I guess that weren't no cheap short porch Yankee Stadium shot.
   3. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 04, 2021 at 07:57 PM (#6022609)
   4. salvomania Posted: June 04, 2021 at 08:00 PM (#6022611)
Devers with a two-run double to tie the game at 2.
   5. Walt Davis Posted: June 04, 2021 at 08:26 PM (#6022614)
#3: as the article notes, he's got an earlier ring from the Royals. I wonder what the Cubs one will fetch at auction. I will double the author's opening bid.
   6. Howie Menckel Posted: June 04, 2021 at 08:53 PM (#6022618)
is Matt Shoemaker of MIN no longer using sticky stuff?

his first inning:
single
SB
walk
RBI double
2-RBI single
walk
K (!)
reach on interference
2-RBI single
RBI single
3-run HR

and his night is done after 9 ER in 0.3 IP

so the reliever walks the next guy, down 9-0
do they still have Kangaroo Courts?
   7. The Duke Posted: June 04, 2021 at 09:47 PM (#6022627)
Cards announcers said tonight that Johnny Bench has let it be known that he thinks Molina is a first ballot Hall of Famer
   8. cardsfanboy Posted: June 04, 2021 at 09:57 PM (#6022631)
Cards announcers said tonight that Johnny Bench has let it be known that he thinks Molina is a first ballot Hall of Famer


At this point in time I don't that is a debate, the debate is whether or not he's worthy. He's going in clearly.... the issue is always about his worthiness, to many he's Jack Morris of catchers.
   9. The Duke Posted: June 04, 2021 at 10:13 PM (#6022641)
Cardinals now have two starting pitchers out due to batting injuries. Bring on the DH.

Cards rotation is now 39 year old Adam wainwright, Carlos Martinez who gave up 11 runs in the first inning a couple nights ago, John Gant, johan Oviedo (some guy from Cuba), and a guy name Ponce De Leon.

Calling all stations to .460 baseball!!!! All aboard !!!!!!
   10. salvomania Posted: June 04, 2021 at 10:24 PM (#6022644)
Sandy Leon, normally a catcher, just put down the Pirates' 1-2-3 hitters in order in the 8th, on 12 pitches, throwing mid-80s stuff with decent command. I guess it's an easier throw than gunning it down to second.
   11. cardsfanboy Posted: June 04, 2021 at 10:32 PM (#6022647)
bases loaded and two outs.... and from the Cardinals history this year, I can almost predict with 30% accuracy that they will walk in a run.
   12. salvomania Posted: June 04, 2021 at 10:32 PM (#6022648)
FOUR MORE HBPs by Cardinal pitchers, they now have 47 on the season (MLB avg. is 24), and are almost halfway to the all-time record for HBP in a season (95).
   13. The Duke Posted: June 04, 2021 at 10:32 PM (#6022649)
Another night, another IBB by Mike Shildt. Immediately followed on the next pitch by a HBP (the cardinals fourth HBP of the night )

There’s a thousand reasons not to IBB but in the specific situation where all your pitchers have walk and HBP problems it makes zero sense
   14. cardsfanboy Posted: June 04, 2021 at 10:33 PM (#6022650)
I love being wrong when I'm pessimistic.
   15. cardsfanboy Posted: June 04, 2021 at 10:35 PM (#6022652)
I know that Shildt is a Joe Torre type of manager, loved by the players, but he is an absolute horrible strategic thinker.
   16. cardsfanboy Posted: June 04, 2021 at 10:38 PM (#6022653)
after years of dealing with Larussa, and even Matheny, to see this guy and his strategy is just nuts. His inability to recognize when players are taxed or the fact that he doesn't understand small game nuances in order to give the players a chance is just horrible managing.
   17. The Duke Posted: June 04, 2021 at 10:55 PM (#6022658)
Grandal with the perfect Grandal night. 2 for 2 with two home runs and two walks. What a year he is having
   18. Howie Menckel Posted: June 04, 2021 at 10:55 PM (#6022659)
on Sunday Night Baseball recently, the discussion wasn't about whether Molina was a HOFer or a first-ballot HOFer - no, it was about whether he joins Mariano Rivera as a unanimous selection.

yes, a certain irony there - and yes, resistance to Molina in the Hall is beyond futile. it's happening.
   19. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 04, 2021 at 11:04 PM (#6022662)
Molina, that cheater ? In the HOF ?
   20. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 04, 2021 at 11:06 PM (#6022663)
Maybe someone should define the guidelines anew !
   21. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 04, 2021 at 11:07 PM (#6022664)
Make baseball great again !
   22. Howie Menckel Posted: June 04, 2021 at 11:10 PM (#6022665)
potentially amusing plot developing in SD

Snell with 4 perfect innings vs Mets on about 45 pitches, and he leads 1-0

Snell almost never in his career has been allowed to complete even 6 innings (I think his Mom told his managers that was the rule, or something)
   23. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 04, 2021 at 11:12 PM (#6022667)
Funny, idiots with masks @Oracle Arena
   24. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 04, 2021 at 11:13 PM (#6022668)
Yea, it's a homerun !

   25. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 04, 2021 at 11:14 PM (#6022669)
Vosler for President !
   26. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 04, 2021 at 11:15 PM (#6022670)
doink
another homerun
   27. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 04, 2021 at 11:15 PM (#6022671)
The Giants amaze me , so do the Athletics !
   28. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 04, 2021 at 11:16 PM (#6022672)
The Giants are probably stealing signs.
   29. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 04, 2021 at 11:19 PM (#6022673)
CB FUC K ner
   30. Howie Menckel Posted: June 04, 2021 at 11:32 PM (#6022677)
Snell gets the first 14 batters, allows a 2-out walk, then a fly out

63 pitches of a no-no thru 5 innings as Pads still lead 1-0

this has the potential of being a tremendous shitshow
   31. Howie Menckel Posted: June 04, 2021 at 11:58 PM (#6022691)
Snell up to a whopping 80 pitches after a rugged 1-2-3 6th, the no-no remains intact

nearly midnight in NY - does Snell's carriage await?

#pumpkin
   32. Shohei Brotani (formerly LA Hombre) Posted: June 05, 2021 at 12:08 AM (#6022693)
Raisel Iglesias comes in to a bases loaded, no-out situation, and gets out of it. Foul pop, strikeout, strikeout. You love to see it.
   33. Howie Menckel Posted: June 05, 2021 at 12:16 AM (#6022694)
the Padres send Snell back out there for the 7th in a 1-0 game and he allows a base hit to Lindor, who reaches 3rd with nobody out.

and a certain manager in Tampa is watching and thinking, "My Gosh, 85 pitches!? what are those monsters in San Diego thinking?"
;)

now Padres fans are doing "The Wave" while their team is batting with a 1-0 lead in the 7th
I know, I know - but I see humans interacting
I just can't grumble
   34. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: June 05, 2021 at 01:06 AM (#6022701)
Weird boxscore of the night: Dodgers score 9 runs on 4 hits. In the 8-run inning, the Braves twice attempted but failed to get outs at the plate. Had they conceded the first run and gotten the out at first, then the second time would have been with two outs, thus an easy out at first and a one-run inning.
   35. cardsfanboy Posted: June 05, 2021 at 08:02 AM (#6022709)
on Sunday Night Baseball recently, the discussion wasn't about whether Molina was a HOFer or a first-ballot HOFer - no, it was about whether he joins Mariano Rivera as a unanimous selection.

yes, a certain irony there - and yes, resistance to Molina in the Hall is beyond futile. it's happening.


Wow... That really does show a lack of understanding of the electorate... Molina might go in first ballot, barely, will probably get in by the third ballot, but unanimous is not remotely on the table.
   36. The Duke Posted: June 05, 2021 at 08:23 AM (#6022710)
Well, Molina isn’t done yet is he? He looks like a guy who will play at least one more year if not two. He’s started to hit some milestones. He’s most certainly not a unanimous selection. But I do think he has a shot at first ballot. More likely a 2nd or 3rd ballot.

Pujols is done this year and Cabrera probably next year. Votto the year or two after that. Then you have posey the following year probably.

On the pitching side you have verlander and greinke and Lester soon with kershaw and scherzer a few years off.

So the pool is rather thin - if he finishes up in 2023, he may not have anyone on the ballot with him. The worst case scenario would be to go onto ballot with Posey.

Does Cabrera still have four years left on his contract? Wow
   37. TomH Posted: June 05, 2021 at 10:10 AM (#6022719)
Molina, first ballot? Let's see, looks for obvious comps... okay, Pudge Rodriguez. Pudge more games caught. Pudge more gold gloves. Pudge better bat. Pudge more silver sluggers, 7 to 1. Pudge barely got in first ballot HoF, 76%. I guess Molina gets credit for catching for two World Series winners, but golly gee, the team won 83 games in 06 and made the playoffs by one game in 11, barely won a playoff series despite being outscored, and won a trophy when a Ranger OFer couldn't track a fly ball.

Carlton Fisk wasn't first ballot. For crying out loud, GARY CARTER got less than 50% his first 3 years on the ballot!
I'm not thinking Molina is first ballot.
   38. cardsfanboy Posted: June 05, 2021 at 10:26 AM (#6022720)
The problem with that, is that the electorate is skewing more and more towards "War = hof" and the longer he is not on the ballot, the more voters who are going to think like that will get the vote. Unless the numbers change due to a recalculation, you are looking at a guy who is not at 50 war, heck not at 45 war. A guy who by the current defensive metrics has been at best an average defensive player at his position since 2016 etc. (note I don't think that is remotely true, but by the system bWar is using that is the math)

Him reaching milestones probably isn't going to sway any of those type of voters, and the type of voters that those milestones would sway, probably already lean towards voting him in anyway. So in reality, him sticking around isn't going to change either type of voters decision on the matter.

To the war voters, he's Jack Morris or Big Papi or Mazeroski or Harold Baines overrated based upon how long they stuck around or contemporary accounts. It's honestly really tough to separate (in a vacuum) Molina from Sundberg or Freehan. fWar(and whatever prospectus uses) likes him more, but I'll be the first to argue that catching numbers that they use overstates his value.... or at least measures it incorrectly.
   39. cardsfanboy Posted: June 05, 2021 at 10:33 AM (#6022721)
Molina, first ballot? Let's see, looks for obvious comps... okay, Pudge Rodriguez. Pudge more games caught. Pudge more gold gloves. Pudge better bat. Pudge more silver sluggers, 7 to 1. Pudge barely got in first ballot HoF, 76%. I guess Molina gets credit for catching for two World Series winners, but golly gee, the team won 83 games in 06 and made the playoffs by one game in 11, barely won a playoff series despite being outscored, and won a trophy when a Ranger OFer couldn't track a fly ball.

Carlton Fisk wasn't first ballot. For crying out loud, GARY CARTER got less than 50% his first 3 years on the ballot!
I'm not thinking Molina is first ballot.


I'm with you on this, but I think you are under representing how the voters feel nowadays. It used to be that the voters would intentionally hold back a vote for a first ballot because they thought it made someone special. Most of those voters have died or have been shamed into voting. Hence the unanimous selection for a reliever.

I don't think it's as accurate to compare past votes with current votes as the electorate has changed enough, and the amount of information they have at their disposal is much easier to get.
   40. The Duke Posted: June 05, 2021 at 12:31 PM (#6022728)
I doubt the thinking is XX got in on 4th ballot and YY got in on 5th ballot so we need to wait on Molina until then. I think the first ballot stigma is gone now which is kind of a shame. I don’t think Yadi is a first ballot guy. His longevity is making it hard not to vote for him ultimately. He’s going to be top 5 in almost all the catcher stats. His teams have an amazing track record of getting to the NLCS and World Series and there isn’t one guy like Mike Trout driving that success. In fact, Yadi is the only common denominator.

He really is the king of the intangibles. He’s Vizquel with a much better narrative and post season success and none of the personal baggage.
   41. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: June 05, 2021 at 01:48 PM (#6022736)
Molina has 9 all-star appearances to Vizquel's 3. It may be true the the National League had a relative weak period for catchers, but Molina was at least seen as a star while he was playing as opposed to retroactively near the end of his career.
   42. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 05, 2021 at 02:04 PM (#6022738)
Molina’s resurgent bat so far this season (127 OPS+) could move some votes in his direction, if he’s able to keep it up. That’s not a given at his age, and considering the rigors of his position, but it’s noteworthy. IMHO, casual observers think Molina has been a better hitter than he actually was because his best seasons coincided with the Cardinals deep playoff runs in 2011-13, when he received a lot of attention. His 98 Career OPS+ isn’t that impressive compared to the good-hitting catchers long-ignored by Cooperstown. Molina may get in, but even with the timing for a favorable ballot, I don’t see unanimity, or even a high 1st ballot percentage, as likely, but if Molina goes out with a couple of better than expected seasons, he might generate enough momentum to make it on the 1st ballot, although I’m a bit skeptical on that.
   43. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: June 05, 2021 at 02:43 PM (#6022741)
I think Molina is going to cruise into the HOF. Catchers with most All-Star Games:

Bench 14
IRod 14
Piazza 12
Carter 11
Fisk 11
Dickey 11
Freehan 11
Howard 9
Molina 9
Torre 8 (not all catcher, but...)
Campanella 8
Del Crandell 8
Rick Ferrell 8
Lombardi 8
Lance Parrish 8
Ted Simmons 8

1) Bill Freehan is an interesting HOF case, isn't he? A lot of MVP votes, Gold Gloves, All-Star appearances, a key player on important teams...but he played in an era of depressed offensive stats, and he has basically no career around his age 22-32 seasons.
2) I thought Lance Parrish was pretty awesome when I was a kid, and the media treated him like one of the best players in the game for a good chunk of the 1980s. But eight Gold Gloves? I guess I didn't remember that...
3) In terms of Molina, there are six catchers who I see as the clear tier of "greatest of all time" - Bench, Rodriguez, Carter, Fisk, Dickey, Piazza. Molina doesn't belong with them. But in the next tier, which I define as probably Campanella, Freehan, Simmons, maybe Posey, maybe I'm forgetting a few others...well, Molina stacks up very well within that second tier. At least one or two catchers from this generation of baseball will end up in the HOF over the next 15 years, and the three guys who will (at a minimum) survive some ballots will be Posey, Mauer, and Molina. I think Molina is the best candidate of the three, unless Posey plays for several more years (which he may well do). Mauer is the weakest of the three candidates. Molina has the best narrative of the three, a sterling defensive reputation, and has accumulated career counting stats that make it difficult to label him as a "defense only" catcher. Posey is having an excellent year with the bat in 2021, but Molina is holding his own, having his best year since at least 2016 so far, and that is helping his counting stats, as well. I think Molina and Posey both eventually get in, one as his generation's best-hitting catcher, the other as his generation's best all-around catcher.
   44. Howie Menckel Posted: June 05, 2021 at 02:50 PM (#6022743)
even with the timing for a favorable ballot, I don’t see unanimity, or even a high 1st ballot percentage, as likely, but if Molina goes out with a couple of better than expected seasons, he might generate enough momentum to make it on the 1st ballot, although I’m a bit skeptical on that.


agreed. but when the MLB Network Sunday night broadcast guy talks "unanimous" as a possibility, and Twitter did not in fact burst into flames, it offers a hint of the perception of Molina's career (which exceeds his actual career).
   45. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 05, 2021 at 05:17 PM (#6022753)
I think Molina is going to cruise into the HOF. Catchers with most All-Star Games:

Bench 14
IRod 14
Piazza 12
Carter 11
Fisk 11
Dickey 11
Freehan 11
Howard 9
Molina 9
Torre 8 (not all catcher, but...)
Campanella 8
Del Crandell 8
Rick Ferrell 8
Lombardi 8
Lance Parrish 8
Ted Simmons 8
Yogi Berra, a 2nd ballot Hall of Famer who made 18 All-Star Teams, offers a characteristically cheerful but semi-indignant hello.
   46. TomH Posted: June 05, 2021 at 09:10 PM (#6022778)
cfb, great point in 39, and quite obvious; lots has changed since Aaron's non-unanimity to Mo Rivera's 100% total. But Carter didn't wait until 2nd ballot; he waited until 6th.
Positives for Molina; great rep and narrative.
Negatives: Molina is 21st in catcher JAWS, and as it was pointed out, more voters today are tuned to using such measures. And this made me laugh;
Molina's top bb-ref comp is ... A.J. Pierzynksi. Really.

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