Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Thursday, October 22, 2020

Young Dodgers pitchers set up to fail in ‘out-getter’ role in Game 2

Gonsolin and May spent the summer going deep into games, not combining to cover less than a third of a game. The Dodgers are running a 15-man pitching staff, with Clayton Kershaw and Walker Buehler as the only “starters.” There is no “closer.”

They consider Gonsolin and May as two of their best arms, and they want to use them in a variety of roles, often unfamiliar ones.

“It’s a big ask, to be quite frank,” Dodgers manager Dave Roberts said.

“These guys are in uncharted territory. Credit to them, they’re not making excuses. They expect themselves to make pitches. It’s different, certainly. But we still need those guys to get important outs going forward for us to win this thing.”

RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: October 22, 2020 at 12:29 PM | 25 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: dodgers

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. My name is Votto, and I love to get blotto Posted: October 22, 2020 at 02:34 PM (#5984584)
They consider Gonsolin and May as two of their best arms, and they want to use them in a variety of roles, often unfamiliar ones.


In May's case, he looks like he's got great stuff, but his FIP was two runs higher than his ERA (4.62 to 2.57) in 56 innings. Gonsolin's ERA and FIP were virtually the same in 46 innings.
   2. Walt Davis Posted: October 22, 2020 at 08:44 PM (#5984653)
We're asking them to do something new and we realize it's challenging.

So why not just use them as regular starters?

Ummm ... numbers and stuff.
   3. Dr. Vaux Posted: October 22, 2020 at 10:04 PM (#5984668)
That out-getter role is tough. Pitchers usually aren't supposed to get outs.
   4. Ron J Posted: October 23, 2020 at 07:44 AM (#5984689)
#3 I blame the instructions they got. They were asked for 40 pitches. Nobody mentioned getting outs.
   5. Rally Posted: October 23, 2020 at 08:08 AM (#5984691)
One thing I wish BBref had was a playoff stat page for the whole team, to get a better sense of how all the pitchers have been used. I can click on each individual and see their stats for the playoffs, or I can click on the series overview page, see how everyone did in the 7 game Atlanta series. But I don't think there's a page for Dodgers 2020 playoffs, which is a shame because the playoffs are going to be another season in themselves. They'll finish with 17-19 games, so between 1/4 and 1/3 of the regular season.
   6. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: October 23, 2020 at 08:57 AM (#5984693)
There is an old adage I believe from Bill James, that the more relievers you put in a game, the more likely it is that one of them doesn't have it that day. How does modern analytics deal with that issue, or does it? Or is it an issue? Cause it seems like an issue.
   7. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: October 23, 2020 at 09:04 AM (#5984694)
6 - Yeah I've always followed that mentally too. My guess, and that's all it is, is that it gets offset a bit by the super quick hook. I was watching game seven of the 2007 ALCS last night. In the 7th inning the Indians brought in Rafael Betancourt and the following happened;

E5
Sac Bunt
HR
GO
FO
-inning over-
FO
2B
1B - RBI
2B
IBB
K
2B - 3RBI

I think in today's game there is virtually no chance that Betancourt gets a second inning of work so the risk is somewhat minimized because no pitcher is going to face that many hitters.
   8. BDC Posted: October 23, 2020 at 09:51 AM (#5984704)
We want an out-getter
Not a base-hit letter
   9. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: October 23, 2020 at 10:42 AM (#5984709)
We're asking them to do something new and we realize it's challenging.

So why not just use them as regular starters?

Ummm ... numbers and stuff.


"We have five good starting pitchers, let's use three of them as relievers" said no sane person ever.
   10. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 23, 2020 at 10:52 AM (#5984710)
We want an out-getter
Not a base-hit letter
How did you not come up with bed-wetter??
   11. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: October 23, 2020 at 12:43 PM (#5984738)
Not a base-hit letter


I actually sent a base-hit letter, once. I was at the game in Anaheim when George Brett got his 3,000th hit. But it was a school night and I was 10 years old, so my Dad told me we needed to go home after the 7th inning, even though George Brett just needed one more hit for his 3,000th (he was already 3-4 that game). My dad's comment: "There's no way he gets four hits." 10 minutes later we were sitting in our driveway, my dad's head slumped on the steering wheel, as we listened on the radio to the call of Brett's 3,000th. The next day, probably to help assuage his guilt, my dad encouraged me to send a letter to the Royals with the ticket stub to see if I could get Brett's autograph, but I never received a response.

All that to say, my experience with "base-hit letters" is not positive.
   12. Jobu is silent on the changeup Posted: October 23, 2020 at 02:20 PM (#5984742)
"There's no way he gets four hits."
Wait - he said that *after* he had 3 hits?
   13. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: October 23, 2020 at 02:29 PM (#5984746)
Wait - he said that *after* he had 3 hits?


He did. My father is a wonderful and smart man, but statistical probability analysis wasn't his strong suit. So he figured that if he had three hits already, he was due to make an out the next time up. There was no way he was going to get that 4th hit, as if he was still thinking of the probability from before the game started. Coming into the game, the chances of Brett going from 2,996 hits to 3,000 was remote, obviously. But my dad was still thinking that those chances were the same even after he got to 2,999 before the 7th inning.
   14. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 23, 2020 at 02:30 PM (#5984747)
10 minutes later we were sitting in our driveway,
Brett was coming up in 10 minutes and he wouldn't let you stay?? Dick move, Dad.
   15. . Posted: October 23, 2020 at 02:45 PM (#5984749)
"We have five good starting pitchers, let's use three of them as relievers" said no sane person ever.


We want a starting pitcher
Not a belly-itcher


No need to complicate things here.
   16. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: October 23, 2020 at 02:49 PM (#5984751)
Brett was coming up in 10 minutes and he wouldn't let you stay?? Dick move, Dad.


We had probably gotten the tickets for free, since it was late September and, like all of those early 90's Angel teams, this one was out of the playoff race by early May, so it wasn't like there was anything to play for. My Dad had probably told me we could attend the game, but we would have to leave after the 6th inning to get home for bed time. I had one of the details incorrect in my previous post - Brett was coming up in the 7th, not the 8th, but I remember the conversation clearly. The Angels had just gotten out in the 6th and my dad said it was time to go. I remember saying, "Dad, George Brett is coming up next inning and he only needs one hit to get to 3,000!"

Dad replied, "Doesn't he already have three hits in the game? There's no way he's getting four."

We lived very close to the stadium, and since it was a terribly attended game, we got out of the parking lot in record time. So we were driving down our street as Brett came to the plate, and had just pulled in the driveway when he got the hit. I don't remember saying anything to him then, but I might have. Probably something witty like, "SEE?!?!?" We sat there in silence for a while and then trudged into the house. Well, he trudged, I stomped.

My dad is an incredibly nice man, a wonderful father who would take the butt-early shift at Fedex so he could be off in time to coach my Little League teams. I could not possibly do him justice with words in this space. But this one night he was inflexible on bed time and cost us the chance to see history. Neither of us will ever forget it, but of course we laugh about it now. Kind of nervously, like neither is sure how the other one really feels, but we laugh nonetheless.
   17. ajnrules Posted: October 23, 2020 at 02:56 PM (#5984752)
The next day, probably to help assuage his guilt, my dad encouraged me to send a letter to the Royals with the ticket stub to see if I could get Brett's autograph, but I never received a response.

Did you at least get the ticket stub back?
   18. Itchy Row Posted: October 23, 2020 at 03:00 PM (#5984754)
The next day, probably to help assuage his guilt, my dad encouraged me to send a letter to the Royals with the ticket stub to see if I could get Brett's autograph, but I never received a response.
That just means your dad got to the mail before you did. He probably gave the autographed stub to another kid.
   19. The Gary DiSarcina Fan Club (JAHV) Posted: October 23, 2020 at 03:39 PM (#5984766)
Did you at least get the ticket stub back?


No. I don't know if my dad kept his or not, but I doubt it.
   20. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: October 23, 2020 at 04:11 PM (#5984777)
At least it’s looking like Urias will be used as a standard starter in game 4. If the series goes to 6 games, either May or Gonsolin should be used in typical starting fashion then, imo. Game 2 was tough because Gonsolin, May and Urias had all pitched in game 7 to close out the Braves and Buehler would have been on short rest having started game 6. With Urias not being used and the off day reseting everything, the Dodgers should be good to go with a standard rotation from here onward.
   21. Howie Menckel Posted: October 23, 2020 at 05:15 PM (#5984794)
We lived very close to the stadium

judging from this story, I pray to God there isn't also a casino nearby.

;)
   22. Zach Posted: October 23, 2020 at 07:13 PM (#5984811)
I actually sent a base-hit letter, once. I was at the game in Anaheim when George Brett got his 3,000th hit. But it was a school night and I was 10 years old, so my Dad told me we needed to go home after the 7th inning, even though George Brett just needed one more hit for his 3,000th (he was already 3-4 that game). My dad's comment: "There's no way he gets four hits." 10 minutes later we were sitting in our driveway, my dad's head slumped on the steering wheel, as we listened on the radio to the call of Brett's 3,000th. The next day, probably to help assuage his guilt, my dad encouraged me to send a letter to the Royals with the ticket stub to see if I could get Brett's autograph, but I never received a response.

I saw #3,001, so we both missed it by one.
   23. Ron J Posted: October 23, 2020 at 08:00 PM (#5984821)
#22 So on average you both saw 3,000
   24. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: October 23, 2020 at 08:17 PM (#5984825)
#22 So on average you both saw 3,000
No, because JAHV also saw 2,997 and 2,998, so that brings down the average. That’s how math works.
   25. Darren Posted: October 24, 2020 at 06:13 PM (#5984914)
This is a really nice story, JAHV, mainly because it involves you and your dad sharing a memory that you can both laugh about now. These are the moments that bring us closer together, IMHO.

As a dad, I'm imagining that right before Brett got hit #3,000, your dad said something like, "Made it home in 10 minutes. We made great time! See?"

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Jim Wisinski
for his generous support.

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogMets To Sign Trevor May
(1 - 1:45pm, Dec 02)
Last: JJ1986

NewsblogOT - Soccer Thread - Winter Is Here
(217 - 1:43pm, Dec 02)
Last: AuntBea odeurs de parfum de distance sociale

NewsblogBill James: The Biggest Problem With WAR
(108 - 1:41pm, Dec 02)
Last: Rally

NewsblogNBA Post-Bubble offseason thread
(1985 - 1:37pm, Dec 02)
Last: asinwreck

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 2020 Ballot
(6 - 1:31pm, Dec 02)
Last: Michael J. Binkley's anxiety closet

NewsblogSources: Isiah Kiner-Falefa to replace mainstay Elvis Andrus as starting Rangers shortstop next season
(17 - 1:30pm, Dec 02)
Last: Mike Webber

NewsblogLet’s Fix MLB’s Salary Arbitration System: The Arbitrators
(8 - 1:16pm, Dec 02)
Last: RoyalsRetro (AG#1F)

NewsblogIs the Hall leaving out too many players?
(83 - 1:05pm, Dec 02)
Last: Rally

NewsblogSt. Paul Saints to become Twins' top minor-league team; Class AA in Wichita
(8 - 12:42pm, Dec 02)
Last: RoyalsRetro (AG#1F)

NewsblogEmpty Stadium Sports Will Be Really Weird
(10679 - 12:41pm, Dec 02)
Last: Biscuit_pants

NewsblogA push to recognize the statistics of Black players from baseball’s era of apartheid
(43 - 11:10am, Dec 02)
Last: Mike Webber

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 12-2-2020
(1 - 10:41am, Dec 02)
Last: Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee)

NewsblogTwins place Eddie Rosario on outright waivers
(7 - 9:55am, Dec 02)
Last: The Duke

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 2020 Discussion
(19 - 9:45am, Dec 02)
Last: DL from MN

Hall of Merit2021 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(382 - 4:05am, Dec 02)
Last: Bleed the Freak

Page rendered in 0.3555 seconds
48 querie(s) executed