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Tuesday, June 22, 2021

Your job’s a joke, you’re broke, your love life’s OMNICHATTER! for June 22, 2021

Scoreboards for the Major Leagues and all minor leagues,
courtesy of Jefferson Manship (Dan Lee).

Shohei Brotani (formerly LA Hombre) Posted: June 22, 2021 at 07:32 AM | 44 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: omnichatter

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Jesus Luzardo Maraschino Posted: June 22, 2021 at 02:32 PM (#6025725)
Happy Wander day!
   2. The Duke Posted: June 22, 2021 at 03:10 PM (#6025734)
I went back and looked at Gibson’s game logs and it appears to me that 22 of the 49 runs he allowed in 1968 came in the 7th inning or later. These are total runs not earned runs. But if you look at his performance as if he is a 6 inning pitcher like Degrom he only gave up 27 runs prior to the 7th.

What’s also amazing is how many 9,10,11, and 12 inning games he pitched. It’s quite extra-ordinary.
   3. TomH Posted: June 22, 2021 at 03:57 PM (#6025746)
Duke, what were his IP for the first 6 innings, vs 7ff?
   4. Howie Menckel Posted: June 22, 2021 at 04:12 PM (#6025751)
06.22... Diamondbacks sent INF/OF Ildemaro Vargas outright to Triple-A Reno.
Spin: After bouncing around multiple teams this season, Vargas actually managed to pass through waivers this time. The 29-year-old has hit .137/.200/.176 over 55 plate appearances between the Diamondbacks, Pirates, and Cubs this season.

.................

so we know this guy's talent is not baseball, so what makes him appealing?
joke teller, gives good neck massages, the guy who can find anything on search engines, he's a 'gum guy,' great at trivia, can salvage your smart phone if you drop it in water, beguiling boyish good looks? anybody know?
   5. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: June 22, 2021 at 04:18 PM (#6025752)
Friends was a good show.
   6. The Duke Posted: June 22, 2021 at 06:00 PM (#6025780)
Gibson pitched 204 innings in innings 1-6 and pitched 101 innings in 7-12
   7. Dog on the sidewalk has an ugly bracelet Posted: June 22, 2021 at 06:07 PM (#6025783)
Re: 4,

55 ugly PAs aside, Vargas looks like a generic 26th guy. Decent minor league numbers, bad but not atrocious projections, some positional versatility. Not sure why you find it weird that bad and/or injury-plagued teams would give him a (brief) shot. Doesn't look much worse than a half dozen or so guys who have started games for the Mets this year.
   8. Walt Davis Posted: June 22, 2021 at 06:20 PM (#6025786)
Gibson only started 34 games (a bit light in those days) but went at least 6 in all of them so through 6 (sorry for any addition mistakes):

204 IP, 20 ER, 185 K, 42 BB, 0.88 ERA

In the first 3 innings, 102 IP, he gave up just 6 runs. He wasn't exactly a slouch in innings 7-9 either with a 1.57 ERA. DeGrom so far is averaging 6 IP per start but he's already missed 3 starts so he's unlikely to get to 200 IP. If he makes it to 180, he can afford to give up 13 runs or a 1.04 ERA to beat that 0.88 through 6. To beat 1.12, he can give up 18, a 1.50 ERA.

In the other thread I noted one "issue" with Gibson's performance is that, adjusted for his context, lgERA was about 2.89 which is also almost exactly his career ERA so the average pitcher (much less the average starter) was regular Bob Gibson in 1968. Another "flaw" is that he's charged with 11 UER (7 in the first 6 innings) which is not particularly a lot for his career or the context but is a lot more than we tend to see these days. So his RA9 is a mammoth 1.45!
   9. Snowboy Posted: June 22, 2021 at 06:42 PM (#6025789)
Single game sports betting about to become legal [in Canada] after Senate passes bill

The legislation has been embraced by the Canadian Football League, National Hockey League and other professional sports. It has also garnered tentative support from a tight-knit equestrian community that remains wary of casinos and foreign gambling sites encroaching on its turf.
...
Provincial governments, which regulate gambling in Canada, have been clamouring for single-event betting to be legalized, Wells added, arguing that they stand to reap billions in revenue that could be used to support addiction research, health care, education and other priorities.
   10. Walt Davis Posted: June 22, 2021 at 06:48 PM (#6025790)
Hmmm ... in terms of K/BB, Gibson's first 6 innings of 68 look like Greinke's 2019: 33 GS, 208.2 IP, 187 K, 30 BB. Obviously similarities pretty much end there. HRs are very different at 21 to 4. (7 of Gibson's 11 HRs were given up in 7-9 ... actually 6 came in the 7th inning alone)

Huh ... Gibson's ERAs by inning

1.32, 0.00, 0.26, 1.59, 0.79, 1.32, 3.18, 0.56, 0.69, 2.08 (the last one extras)

Clearly he should have been a 6-inning pitcher or an opener. :-)

For his career, the 1st inning was by far the worst at 4.00 but the 7th was next at 3.41 and the 2nd was the best at 2.02.
   11. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 22, 2021 at 07:22 PM (#6025798)
Luke Voit returns to the Yankee lineup after injury, and hits the 1st pitch he sees into the left field stands. 1-0.
   12. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: June 22, 2021 at 07:26 PM (#6025799)
Red Sox proving they are not too smart by having Santana and his .206 OBP leading off against the Rays? I get that they seem fixated on this set batting for the 2-5 slots, but why not Renfroe...or anyone else with a pulse?
   13. The Mighty Quintana Posted: June 22, 2021 at 07:33 PM (#6025801)
Not sure what the Sox are trying to prove, Duran seems more than ready as a major league centerfielder.
   14. yo la tengo (the poor man's Ron Darling) Posted: June 22, 2021 at 08:07 PM (#6025806)
Why is Stroman out after one inning?
   15. JJ1986 Posted: June 22, 2021 at 08:24 PM (#6025811)
I would really rather Marcus Stroman not be injured.
   16. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: June 22, 2021 at 08:30 PM (#6025812)
Yarbrough is insufferable. Even the announcers have been going on about how slow he is. When the revolution comes, Ryan Yarbrough is first against the wall.

On the other hand, the time between pitches has given me time to teach my four year old about baseball. He now knows what a 3-2 count means. So I guess it's not all bad.
   17. yo la tengo (the poor man's Ron Darling) Posted: June 22, 2021 at 08:38 PM (#6025816)
JJ I agree 100% the Mets do not need yet another injury, especially to Stroman at this point.
   18. JJ1986 Posted: June 22, 2021 at 08:43 PM (#6025818)
On the other hand, the time between pitches has given me time to teach my four year old about baseball. He now knows what a 3-2 count means. So I guess it's not all bad.
My 4-year old watching the Mets game thought that Yesnny Diaz wasn't ready to pitch and maybe he needed to bad first.
   19. Howie Menckel Posted: June 22, 2021 at 09:13 PM (#6025828)
06.22... Marcus Stroman departed Tuesday night's game against the Braves due to left hip soreness.
Spin: Stroman came off the mound gingerly on a second-inning delivery to Austin Riley and was lifted after trying some warmup pitches under the watchful eye of a trainer. He officially worked one scoreless inning in the abbreviated outing versus Atlanta. There should be further information from Mets manager Luis Rojas once the game concludes.

.............

well, McNeil did finally return last night and Conforto was supposed to today - but there was a brief COVID scare with Syracuse but now he is cleared to return tomorrow.

RPs Familia and Gsellman just went on the IL, maybe minor.
SP Lucchesi - stellar of late - had TJS today.
Betances might be back soon, if we care anymore.
Nimmo maybe back by July 1.
JD Davis due back around mid-July.
Carrasco maybe Aug. 1.
Thor - mid-August?

#fleshwounds


   20. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: June 22, 2021 at 09:14 PM (#6025829)
Just want to say this while I still can: Wander Franco and I have exactly the same number of MLB hits.
   21. Ziggy: social distancing since 1980 Posted: June 22, 2021 at 09:16 PM (#6025830)
...aaaannnndddd so much for that.
   22. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 22, 2021 at 10:14 PM (#6025838)
How will the Angels do something....
   23. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 22, 2021 at 10:15 PM (#6025839)
The Angels are cheaters !
   24. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 22, 2021 at 10:16 PM (#6025840)
Check their gloves !
   25. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 22, 2021 at 10:18 PM (#6025841)
This can't be! Check the Angels !
Those Cheaters !
   26. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 22, 2021 at 10:27 PM (#6025842)
   27. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 22, 2021 at 10:32 PM (#6025843)
   28. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 22, 2021 at 10:38 PM (#6025845)
Without spit and/or other stuff, Verlander would be only an A-ball player.
   29. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 22, 2021 at 10:39 PM (#6025846)
if that even.
   30. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 22, 2021 at 10:40 PM (#6025847)
Rendon, just take a seat.
   31. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 22, 2021 at 10:45 PM (#6025848)
Max Scherzer, that cheater !
   32. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 22, 2021 at 10:46 PM (#6025849)
Gotta clean that swamp !
   33. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 22, 2021 at 10:48 PM (#6025852)
I am pro pitcher checking !
   34. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 22, 2021 at 10:49 PM (#6025853)
####### cheaters !
   35. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 22, 2021 at 10:50 PM (#6025854)
Derek Cheaters !
   36. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 22, 2021 at 10:52 PM (#6025856)
Cmon Crawford

idiod!
   37. AT-AT at bat@AT&T Posted: June 22, 2021 at 11:00 PM (#6025859)
WTF Belt
   38. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 22, 2021 at 11:08 PM (#6025863)
Didn’t catch it, but Max Scherzer was checked for foreign substances mid-inning at the request of Phillies Manager Joe Girardi, which apparently led to some unhappiness. Girardi was later ejected for coming out of the dugout to challenge Scherzer to get physical. Probably gets a suspension & fine.
   39. Howie Menckel Posted: June 22, 2021 at 11:40 PM (#6025867)
the tightly-wound Girardi is about an 8-game losing streak away from going absolutely bonkers.
   40. Walt Davis Posted: June 23, 2021 at 12:05 AM (#6025885)
Crikey! The Astros are on a 9-game win streak during which they have a +44 run differential and have jumped their seasonal run differential out to +122. That puts them 37 ahead of the White Sox and 23 ahead of the Dodgers.
   41. TomH Posted: June 23, 2021 at 07:09 AM (#6025903)
Walt#10 "For his career, the 1st inning [ERA] was by far the worst at 4.00 but the 7th was next at 3.41 and the 2nd was the best at 2.02."

That is about as expected as you can get; teams score their most runs in the first inning of games, and their least in the 2nd. Gibson pitching against the 6th-9th batters on a team is a very good bet to hold them down.
   42. TomH Posted: June 23, 2021 at 07:14 AM (#6025904)
Bob Gibson, career World Series runs allowed (includes unearned) by inning (63 IP total over 7 starts)

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9ff
1 0 1 2 1 4 4 1 5

05 total runs in 35 IP thru 5th
14 total runs in 28 IP 6th ff

   43. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 23, 2021 at 07:55 AM (#6025905)
Gibson's WS performances are better broken down by game. After he gave up 4 runs in 8 innings in his first start in 1964,** in his 8 subsequent starts he went the route every time, and the only times he allowed more than 1 earned run were in game 7 of 1964, when he was pitching on two days' rest after winning a 10 inning game in his previous start; and in game 7 of 1968, when 3 of the 4 "earned" runs were the direct result of a fly ball that Curt Flood misjudged into a triple. In his other 6 starts, his game scores were 87, 80, 82, 80, 93 and 81. He had 92 strikeouts in 81 innings, an almost unbelievable 10.2 K/9 rate for that era, a WS K/9 rate that was even higher than that of Sandy Koufax.

** Some context on that one: He was pitching on three days' rest, which was SOP for him. But in that prior start, he was pitching on one day's rest, in a desperate attempt to avoid a sweep by the Mets that would've forced the Cardinals into a special pennant playoff.
   44. TomH Posted: June 23, 2021 at 09:21 AM (#6025910)
Er-JOSNick: good context, thanks. But I will point out that while Flood did indeed misjudge a flyball at a horrible time, this is quite a well-known thing that gets brought up over and over to seemingly prove further how awesomely clutch Gibby was, even when he didn't win. What DOESN'T get brought up by Gibson supporters is that he pitched in front of Flood; one of the best fly-catchers ever; and a slew of other fine gloves (like Dal Maxvill at short), much of his career. Surely he benefited many many times from his defense, lowering his ERA.

Gibson was a great pitcher, fine fielder, fine bat, and was a touch better (but not remarkably better) in the WS than regular season. I just think his biggest apologists go way overboard for a guy who, for all of his great-in-the-clutch ink, lead his league in wins ONCE in his career, even though he pitched oodles of innings with often good supporting casts. When I hear him compared favorably by many to Tom Seaver I kinda cringe :)

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