BBTF's Transaction Oracle Discussion :: Cardinals

Transaction Oracle
— A Timely Look at Transactions as They Happen

Wednesday, December 21, 2005

Cardinals - Signed Sir Lush-a-lot

St. Louis Cardinals - Signed P Sidney Ponson to a 1-year contract; signed 1B Brian Daubach to a minor-leagueg contract.

Personally, I think Ponson’s arm is shot, but I guess it’s worth a flyer since the Cardinals won’t have to pay much for him. That ZiPS projection makes me think that my spreadsheet just got back from a champagne jam with Sid. The problem will be if Anthony Reyes doesn’t get a starting job - he’s twice the pitcher that Ponson is.

Daubach’s still a good option for a team with nothing at 1B or DH, but this is just about the worst team for Daubach to latch onto - he has no positional flexibility (though he used to pretend to play 3B) and there’s this Pujols guy in front of him who always plays and hits a wee bit better than him.

2006 ZiPS Projection - Brian Daubach
————————————————————————————-

 AB   R    H  2B 3B  HR RBI  BB  SO  SB    BA   OBP   SLG  
————————————————————————————-

382  61   94  26  0  16  64  60 107   1  .246  .352  .440

2006 ZiPS Projection - Sidney Ponson
———————————————————————-
W L G GS IP H ER HR BB SO ERA
———————————————————————-
11 12 29 29 189 200 96 17 61 109 4.57

Dan Szymborski Posted: December 21, 2005 at 03:14 PM | 41 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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1. Stop Oppressing Zonk by Investigating His Heroes Posted: December 21, 2005 at 03:38 PM (#1788167)

Just curious.... If you were to put together an all-time team of great lushes, what would it look like?

How about just a modern day (post-1980, let's say) team?

In either case - it seems the rotation would be MUCH easier to build than the rest of the team.

I mean - Dennis Eckersly, Bob Welch, Kyle Farnsworth jump to mind immediately -- but I'm sure there are tons more.

Hack Wilson is certainly one of the corner OFs on the all-time team... Who else? Ed Delahanty? Mickey Mantle? Cobb had his issues with the bottle, but I don't think he'd make the team if the drinking had to be during playing days. Darrell Porter catching?

2. Craig in MN Posted: December 21, 2005 at 04:05 PM (#1788216)

David Wells deserves a spot. Anyone who is known for throwing a no hitter while being hungover should be on that team, even if in a ceremonial role.

3. OlePerfesser Posted: December 21, 2005 at 04:17 PM (#1788245)

I don't know how ZiPS works, O Esteemed Oracle, but if it weights last year very heavily, I wouldn't attach a great deal of confidence to it in Sidney's case. There were quite a few... er, "fluky interruptions" to his off-season "regimen" and in-season performance last year.

As I said in the other thread, he's reported to be sober since that August DUI (and 5 days in Baltimore's lovely city jail might serve as a reminder why to remain so). Some people never learn, of course, but Sidney might well have "hit bottom" in '05. And I like the leadership in that clubhouse in STL; the days of Sidney running with the wrong crowd may well be over.

4. spivey Posted: December 21, 2005 at 04:24 PM (#1788267)

Ole Perfesser: It weighs the most recent seasons most, of course. But in Ponson's case, it seems like he didn't pitch too much last year so he won't really have 2005 weighted that much.

5. WillYoung Posted: December 21, 2005 at 04:25 PM (#1788270)

David Green was supposedly the second coming of Roberto Clemente except he couldn't stop drinking.

6. Rally Posted: December 21, 2005 at 04:55 PM (#1788326)

Rafael Furcal is our shortstop.

Lou Piniella can manage and play the OF. -I'm not saying he's got a problem but from friends who've seen him in hotel lobbys he can put em away.

7. SouthSideRyan Posted: December 21, 2005 at 05:04 PM (#1788344)

Being with the Cardinals seemed to work out well for Mitchell Paige...

8. DTS Posted: December 21, 2005 at 05:05 PM (#1788346)

David Green was supposedly the second coming of Roberto Clemente except he couldn't stop drinking.

And he was a 35 year old rookie.

Man, I remember his rise and fall well. Good times in the Lou.

9. DTS Posted: December 21, 2005 at 05:07 PM (#1788354)

Being with the Cardinals seemed to work out well for Mitchell Paige...

The lure of the Anhueser Busch brewery is more than many recovering alcoholics can take. I hope Sidney can avoid that siren song.

10. Dan Szymborski

Posted: December 21, 2005 at 06:06 PM (#1788512)

If all I could drink was Busch products, I'd be completely sober.

11. 1k5v3L

Posted: December 21, 2005 at 06:09 PM (#1788522)

Ponson did cut his hair. That probably shaved 2 runs off his ERA...

12. Rally Posted: December 21, 2005 at 06:29 PM (#1788586)

And he was a 35 year old rookie.

Any idea how old Green was? Baseball ref still lists him as 20 in his debut, 21 in his rookie year. I remeber hearing something about his age once but I'm sure 35 was an exaggeration.

I remember him playing minor league ball in Louisville. He sure looked older than 21. How many speedy OF's move to 1st base at the age of 23? Him and Darin Erstad I guess.

13. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: December 21, 2005 at 08:26 PM (#1788868)

Lou Piniella can manage and play the OF. -I'm not saying he's got a problem but from friends who've seen him in hotel lobbys he can put em away.

I'd take Billy Martin over Piniella for manager, but Piniella over Martin in the outfield.

14. Greg Franklin Posted: December 21, 2005 at 10:51 PM (#1789167)

I think Ponson made a good match with the Cardinals, and vice versa. The organization is stronger top to bottom than Baltimore ever was; I trust them to make decisions on Ponson's ability and sobriety or without throwing away too many games.

re: "Daubach's still a good option for a team with nothing at 1B or DH" -- I don't think so. That description fit the Mets in 2005, but he couldn't stick, and he hasn't stuck anywhere for years.

15. Flynn Posted: December 21, 2005 at 11:00 PM (#1789188)

re: "Daubach's still a good option for a team with nothing at 1B or DH" -- I don't think so. That description fit the Mets in 2005, but he couldn't stick, and he hasn't stuck anywhere for years.

Well, they didn't give him much of a chance, really. 25 AB's? His BA was rock-bottom, but 324/320, as crappy as it is, isn't much worse than what the Met 1Bs Randolph replaced him with put up.

16. Greg Franklin Posted: December 21, 2005 at 11:13 PM (#1789204)

Not to hijack this into a Mets thread -- I know they didn't give Daubach much of a chance, but he didn't have a chance of standing out among those Mets 1B, given his performance post-2002. He had been called up in midseason after Randolph had given up on M10z and only after all the bench infielders and Offerman had tried out for the job.

Personally, I think he went with the Cardinals because he knows he's shot, and wants to get his final cup of coffee with his hometown team.

17. esseff Posted: December 21, 2005 at 11:24 PM (#1789219)

Just curious.... If you were to put together an all-time team of great lushes, what would it look like?

Like the 1950s' Yankees?

18. Steve Treder Posted: December 21, 2005 at 11:27 PM (#1789225)

Hack Wilson is certainly one of the corner OFs on the all-time team... Who else? Ed Delahanty? Mickey Mantle? Cobb had his issues with the bottle, but I don't think he'd make the team if the drinking had to be during playing days. Darrell Porter catching?

I don't believe Cobb started to drink much until he was long retired from baseball. Then he made up for lost time, of course.

Candidates for the all-time team:

- Paul Waner
- Grover Cleveland Alexander
- Babe Ruth
- Jimmie Foxx
- Rudy York
- Pete Fox
- Rabbit Maranville
- Jim Tabor
- Vern Stephens
- Hank Thompson
- Steve Bilko
- Wally Post
- Mike Kreevich
- Tom Seats
- Don Newcombe
- Ryne Duren
- Sam McDowell

Among managers, Joe McCarthy would have to rate serious consideration. Casey Stengel too. Bobby Cox as well, I guess.

It is, of course, hard to know how valid and accurate a lot of the stories you read about any of these guys are. Bill James makes a case -- I think it's in The Politics of Glory -- that Stephens really doesn't deserve his hard-drinking rep.

Who knows? All I can say is I've read quite a few stories about these guys.

19. Steve Treder Posted: December 21, 2005 at 11:28 PM (#1789227)

Oh, Ellis Kinder, too.

20. Crispix Attacksel Rios Posted: December 22, 2005 at 12:37 AM (#1789290)

Tom Seats? Vicente Padilla is way more qualified than him, and if you correct for era Padilla has a pretty great DIPSO+ (Drunken Idiot Pitcher, Success Of)

21. Steve Treder Posted: December 22, 2005 at 12:47 AM (#1789302)

Good point. But don't overlook Seats's very impressive Southpaw Often Under Spirited influEnce score.

22. 185/456(GGC) Posted: December 22, 2005 at 12:49 AM (#1789303)

Len Koenecke would've been a candidate, if he got a shot earlier and avoided that unfortunate airplane incident.

23. phredbird

Posted: December 22, 2005 at 12:50 AM (#1789305)

bugs raymond

24. Sparkles Peterson Posted: December 22, 2005 at 01:11 AM (#1789361)

25. DTS Posted: December 22, 2005 at 01:28 AM (#1789380)

Any idea how old Green was? Baseball ref still lists him as 20 in his debut, 21 in his rookie year. I remeber hearing something about his age once but I'm sure 35 was an exaggeration.

I was exaggerating, but the estimates were up to 30 if I recall correctly. I don't know if I ever knew for sure -- of course, I was like 9 years old at the time, so who knows what I knew back then. There've been an awful lot of Busch products flowing down my gullet since then.

26. J. Michael Neal Posted: December 22, 2005 at 01:32 AM (#1789387)

Dennis Martinez

Does Dock Ellis get honorable mention status?

27. bookbook Posted: December 22, 2005 at 04:24 AM (#1789626)

Dennis Martinez as a post-1980 pitcher. Of course, he did his best pitching after he sobered up. He's no Sidney Ponson.

28. SouthSideRyan Posted: December 22, 2005 at 05:25 AM (#1789705)

Ponson gives the Cardinals the same crappy innings Marquis would have, freeing them up to trade Marquis for Austin Kearns, or whichever other outfielder is being dangled by a GM stupid enough to want Marquis.

I don't think Ponson comes anywhere close to matching Marquis's numbers. I wouldn't be surprised to see him released before the year was over.

29. Walt Davis Posted: December 22, 2005 at 06:09 AM (#1789740)

How soon they forget Darrell Porter. If he'd stayed healthy, the HOF wasn't out of the question.

Tangentially related, how hard would it be for Sean to program a B-R search for the toolbar? I hit that thing at least as often as google.

30. Bunny Vincennes Posted: December 22, 2005 at 06:22 AM (#1789764)

Ellis Kinder one of my all-time favorites. Good call Steve.

31. TOLAXOR Posted: December 22, 2005 at 06:30 PM (#1790458)

OH, DUSTY, YOU'RE JUST A SILLY CUBS FAN!!

HOW ABOUT LA MARR HOYT, HAD HE KEPT SOBER???

TALK ABOUT COINKY-DINK, LA MARR'S COMPS ON REFERENCE INCLUDE:

CHRIS CARPENTER
MATT MORRIS
MARK MULDER...

32. Scoriano Flitcraft Posted: December 23, 2005 at 03:03 AM (#1791221)

Don Larsen.

33. NetOwl Posted: December 23, 2005 at 09:44 AM (#1791575)

Where have my Cardinals gone this offseason?

Yeah, I'm still stewing over their not getting Brian Giles. Ponson, though? Dave Duncan better be making a deal with the Devil if he wants this to work out.

Austin Kearns would cheer me up.

34. Dr. Vaux Posted: December 23, 2005 at 10:02 AM (#1791578)

Even if getting Kearns would mean Ponson's in the rotation no matter what? 'Cause that's what giving up Marquis would mean...

35. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: December 23, 2005 at 01:28 PM (#1791636)

Just curious.... If you were to put together an all-time team of great lushes, what would it look like?

I'll take Rube Waddell on top of my rotation.

Best Regards

John

36. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: December 23, 2005 at 04:18 PM (#1791801)

I'll take Rube Waddell on top of my rotation.

Throwing to King Kelly.

37. Dr Love Posted: December 23, 2005 at 04:26 PM (#1791811)

Al Campanis can be the GM.

38. Cooper Teenoh Posted: December 23, 2005 at 04:37 PM (#1791826)

Is it possible that Louis Sockalexis has been overlooked up to now?

39. DTS Posted: December 23, 2005 at 04:58 PM (#1791852)

I love the Ponson signing, especially compared to the Encarnacion deal.

40. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: December 24, 2005 at 12:00 AM (#1792458)

DLowe and Foulke can work out of the bullpen.

41. Harold can be a fun sponge Posted: December 24, 2005 at 12:47 PM (#1792831)

Tangentially related, how hard would it be for Sean to program a B-R search for the toolbar? I hit that thing at least as often as google.

If you use Firefox, you can very easily add this by yourself -- it would probably take longer to download and install a toolbar than to add a bookmark search. Create a bookmark to this link. In the keyword field, write "br". Now, you just type "br Darrell Porter" into Firefox's address bar, and it will do a baseball-reference search. You can use whatever keyword you want, of course.

(You can do this with any search-type URL, by bookmarking the URL and replacing the search term with "%s", and assigning whatever keyword you want. I keep a folder in bookmarks called "Searches" full of these.)

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Wednesday, December 21, 2005

Cardinals - Signed Sir Lush-a-lot

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