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1. villageidiom
Posted: February 11, 2013 at 02:56 PM (#4367190)
John Lackey and Aaron Cook have a common #1 comp: Aaron Sele.
Nooooooooooooooooooo!
2. Darren
Posted: February 11, 2013 at 02:57 PM (#4367196)
I think for Cook it's all based on the first name.
Jackie Bradley .249/.329/.367 is a pretty nice player already. Every time I read something about this kid I get more excited. It's probably stupid to think he's a better bet than Bogaerts but I've been stupid before and I'll be stupid again. He probably doesn't have the ceiling of Bogaerts but I think he is much more of a surefire MLB regular.
If Jose Iglesias can really post a .298 OBP he should probably be our everyday shortstop. The bar is low but again, his defense is what it is.
I think Ellsbury's .284/.333/.445/2.5 WAR has no chance of being right. I don't know if it's low or high but I don't see him being so ordinary.
The Middlebrooks comp of Joe Crede seems very reasonable.
It's nice to know the computer is confident in Jon Lester.
Tazawa has extremely few IP in recent seasons, and he was quite terrible when he was pitching with a busted elbow ligament. ZiPS' projection for him is going to be like 70% regression to the mean, 30% performance record, and much of that performance record is not good at all.
I'm annoyed that Fangraphs is only publishing top comps rather than top three comps. (Are they going to make the spreadsheet available like Dan used to here?) But my favorite comp, just for narrative's sake, is John Valentin for Dustin Pedroia. Obviously no one wants Pedroia to face age and injury decline like Valentin did, but I think it's a good reminder of how frickin' great John Valentin was for a short time in the 90s. He's actually a pretty similar player in terms of the arrangement of his production. Hopefully Dustin's back is not similar.
10. Darren
Posted: February 11, 2013 at 07:21 PM (#4367390)
You know who ZIPS loves? It loves it some Big Papi. He's projected for 3.4 WAR in 418 PA, thanks to a .294 .388 .558. Top Comp: McCovey (I know, I know)! 500 HR, here we come!
Good point about Valentin--a really valuable and versatile player who took a big nosedive. 8+ WAR in 95, pushed aside by Nomar in 97, no wonder he was pissed.
11. Jack Sommers
Posted: February 11, 2013 at 08:32 PM (#4367434)
If the Red Sox bullpen is good....top 1/3 in the AL, and Drew recovers all of his range at Shortstop, this team is good enough to win the division. Solid lineup, and league average starting pitching, (if backed up by the infield defense,...OF Defense will surely be good).
12. philly
Posted: February 11, 2013 at 10:16 PM (#4367540)
(Are they going to make the spreadsheet available like Dan used to here?)
Yes, I think he mentioned it would be published at the end of the week.
14. SoSH U at work
Posted: February 11, 2013 at 11:34 PM (#4367582)
Obviously no one wants Pedroia to face age and injury decline like Valentin did, but I think it's a good reminder of how frickin' great John Valentin was for a short time in the 90s. He's actually a pretty similar player in terms of the arrangement of his production. Hopefully Dustin's back is not similar.
Did Valentin suffer from a bad back? I know back troubles are what sunk Naehring's career, but I don't recall that being an issue for John as well.
If Jose Iglesias can really post a .298 OBP he should probably be our everyday shortstop. The bar is low but again, his defense is what it is.
I hate to distrust the computer, but I would be shocked if Iglesias could post a .298 OBP in full time in the majors.
16. Jack Sommers
Posted: February 12, 2013 at 02:48 AM (#4367633)
If 81 wins will do it, the they are so there.
Well, they don't project to have a top 1/3 bullpen and Drew does not project to have the range he had two years ago before he broke his ankle. Hence the word "IF".
As they project now, 81 wins might be right....but if they get much better than expected bullpen work and infield defense, they can cover up a few warts in the starting rotation and the lineup is certainly good enough to compete.
You need to look at teams in spring and at least try to find their path to contention, unless there is seriously no hope at all of them. I don't think I would put the Red Sox in no hope territory.
17. esturminator_CT
Posted: February 12, 2013 at 11:53 AM (#4367858)
The #1 comps are certainly interesting. Nice call AG#1F (#4). I think we'd all be quite happy if Koji Uehara turns out to be Dennis Eckersley. But I'm a little disappointed in the Tony Batista comp for Bogaerts. Can we assume the Bob Gibson comp for Josh Fields is the Brewers' Bob Gibson as opposed to the Cardinals' Bob Gibson? Apparently ZIPS is not expecting a comeback from Daniel Bard. Hasn't his career already well surpassed what was put together by Bart Miadich? I also have a tough time seeing Del Unser in Jacoby Ellsbury. I'm hoping for a rebound from Ells and certainly more than 57 runs if the Sox are going to be competitive.
When do the Fanboy projections go up? Always a favorite of mine.
Lackey's gotta be a CYA candidate.
19. tfbg9
Posted: February 12, 2013 at 12:45 PM (#4367939)
ZIPS aint exactly doin' backflips over Middlebrooks either.
Also, remember that Valentin's 8+ WAR were in an ~11% strike-shortened season, 1995. Huge season. And one of my favorite Sox years.
20. plim
Posted: February 12, 2013 at 12:53 PM (#4367958)
Did Valentin suffer from a bad back? I know back troubles are what sunk Naehring's career, but I don't recall that being an issue for John as well.
I was going to say the same thing. I do recall an injury, but for me, the injury memory will always be him crumpling at third when he tore up his knee.
He was one of my favorites growing up. I never bought into the Scott Cooper/Tim Naehring hype. He could do it all, including give up his position for Nomar.
Yeah, I must have mixed up Naehring and Valentin there. Valentin tore up his shoulder late in the '96 season, and while he was able to play through it for a little while, soon the injury cascade ended his prime run and eventually found its way to his knee. He blames constant cortisone use, related to the shoulder injury, for causing the run of injury problems that followed. The knee injury that ended his career in 2000 came about two years after other injuries had severely limited his utility. (Source: this enjoyable, honest interview in Living magazine from 2010).
When do the Fanboy projections go up?
The CFBPS numbers are in process. I have realized in renoobulating the system that a complex relationship of transference and counter-transference has developed between myself and the Freudian engine that powers the system. My own de-cathexion from the Red Sox last year and my ongoing ambivalence toward the club are affecting the ultimate projections in some indeterminate ways. But I will have numbers within the next few weeks.
22. tfbg9
Posted: February 12, 2013 at 01:27 PM (#4368000)
FORT MYERS, Fla. — Red Sox starter Clay Buchholz left the field after straining his right hamstring while covering first base during a spring training drill today.
25. covelli chris p
Posted: February 12, 2013 at 03:33 PM (#4368161)
The CFBPS numbers are in process. I have realized in renoobulating the system that a complex relationship of transference and counter-transference has developed between myself and the Freudian engine that powers the system. My own de-cathexion from the Red Sox last year and my ongoing ambivalence toward the club are affecting the ultimate projections in some indeterminate ways. But I will have numbers within the next few weeks.
i dug up some old source code and was trying to run some simulations, but it kept hanging when i tried to get 2013's projections. i thought it was a bug, but it looks like whoever wrote this code may have been superstitious or possibly clairvoyant ... while( year % 100 == 13 ) sleep(1000); i could try to remove that block, but i'm afraid that i might break somebody else's workflow ... so ... check back next year?
First Sox games are Feb 27 and March 1 - both live at 7 pm which is nice for people who, you know, work during the day.
Oops, actually the first one is Sun the 24th at 2:30 am! Tape delay for the hardcore fan I guess.
28. villageidiom
Posted: February 13, 2013 at 08:37 AM (#4368565)
I have realized in renoobulating the system that a complex relationship of transference and counter-transference has developed between myself and the Freudian engine that powers the system.
This is great, but only made better if said in the voice of Professor Frink.
My own de-cathexion from the Red Sox last year and my ongoing ambivalence toward the club are affecting the ultimate projections in some indeterminate ways. But I will have numbers within the next few weeks.
If I can be of assistance, let me know. I am an unapologetic (blind?) 2013 Red Sox optimist.
31. TomH
Posted: February 13, 2013 at 10:16 AM (#4368631)
wave at me on TV on the 23rd. Visiting my retired parents in Ft Myers, I'll be at the game.
If I can be of assistance, let me know. I am an unapologetic (blind?) 2013 Red Sox optimist.
I kind of am too. Not in the sense that I think the Red Sox will do all that well in 2013, but I'm excited about the youth coming up and the potential that the Red Sox might not be terrible despite making that crippling trade last year. I just like baseball.
33. covelli chris p
Posted: February 13, 2013 at 03:42 PM (#4369006)
I kind of am too. Not in the sense that I think the Red Sox will do all that well in 2013, but I'm excited about the youth coming up and the potential that the Red Sox might not be terrible despite making that crippling trade last year. I just like baseball.
+1
34. Darren
Posted: March 01, 2013 at 08:52 AM (#4378208)
Some very weird stuff going on with ZIPS. The WAR numbers listed on individual teams postings vary greatly from those on the player and team pages. Appleman explains: "The projection and player pages use our in-house WAR calculations, where the original reports included Dan Szymborski original WAR projections."
Unfortunately, in the case of the Red Sox, that generally means much worse projections in starting pitching but slightly better in a number of hitters.
The big ones here are Lester and Buchholz, who drop from an okay #1/#2 to an okay #2/#3. On the other hand, the 4 hitters mention make up almost half of the 3.7 wins that disappeared from those 5 starters.
35. Darren
Posted: March 01, 2013 at 08:54 AM (#4378209)
Then there's Mike Carp, who went from +0.3 on the Mariners to -0.3 on the Red Sox. It looks like his #s have barely changed, I wonder if they forgot to adjust for his new park.
36. Dan
Posted: March 01, 2013 at 02:31 PM (#4378459)
What you're seeing is the effect of a WAR based on xFIP vs a WAR more like the one on BB-Ref that's based on runs allowed. Presumably, Szym's WAR is more similar to the WAR found on BB-Ref.
37. Darren
Posted: March 01, 2013 at 03:05 PM (#4378492)
I suspected the same, but what explains the difference in hitters, then?
38. SG
Posted: March 01, 2013 at 03:06 PM (#4378493)
You are also probably seeing some park effect differences. If pitchers are worse and hitters are better, then Szym probably has a different park factor(less favorable to hitters) for Fenway than FG.
Reader Comments and Retorts
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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
1. villageidiom Posted: February 11, 2013 at 02:56 PM (#4367190)Nooooooooooooooooooo!
Jackie Bradley .249/.329/.367 is a pretty nice player already. Every time I read something about this kid I get more excited. It's probably stupid to think he's a better bet than Bogaerts but I've been stupid before and I'll be stupid again. He probably doesn't have the ceiling of Bogaerts but I think he is much more of a surefire MLB regular.
If Jose Iglesias can really post a .298 OBP he should probably be our everyday shortstop. The bar is low but again, his defense is what it is.
I think Ellsbury's .284/.333/.445/2.5 WAR has no chance of being right. I don't know if it's low or high but I don't see him being so ordinary.
The Middlebrooks comp of Joe Crede seems very reasonable.
It's nice to know the computer is confident in Jon Lester.
Bryce Brentz top comps: Plaxico Burress, this guy.
I laughed.
All 4 of our "good" hitters are injury ? guys. Yikes. Weird offseason.
\O/
l
/ \
I'm annoyed that Fangraphs is only publishing top comps rather than top three comps. (Are they going to make the spreadsheet available like Dan used to here?) But my favorite comp, just for narrative's sake, is John Valentin for Dustin Pedroia. Obviously no one wants Pedroia to face age and injury decline like Valentin did, but I think it's a good reminder of how frickin' great John Valentin was for a short time in the 90s. He's actually a pretty similar player in terms of the arrangement of his production. Hopefully Dustin's back is not similar.
Good point about Valentin--a really valuable and versatile player who took a big nosedive. 8+ WAR in 95, pushed aside by Nomar in 97, no wonder he was pissed.
Yes, I think he mentioned it would be published at the end of the week.
If 81 wins will do it, the they are so there.
Did Valentin suffer from a bad back? I know back troubles are what sunk Naehring's career, but I don't recall that being an issue for John as well.
I hate to distrust the computer, but I would be shocked if Iglesias could post a .298 OBP in full time in the majors.
Well, they don't project to have a top 1/3 bullpen and Drew does not project to have the range he had two years ago before he broke his ankle. Hence the word "IF".
As they project now, 81 wins might be right....but if they get much better than expected bullpen work and infield defense, they can cover up a few warts in the starting rotation and the lineup is certainly good enough to compete.
You need to look at teams in spring and at least try to find their path to contention, unless there is seriously no hope at all of them. I don't think I would put the Red Sox in no hope territory.
Lackey's gotta be a CYA candidate.
Also, remember that Valentin's 8+ WAR were in an ~11% strike-shortened season, 1995. Huge season. And one of my favorite Sox years.
I was going to say the same thing. I do recall an injury, but for me, the injury memory will always be him crumpling at third when he tore up his knee.
He was one of my favorites growing up. I never bought into the Scott Cooper/Tim Naehring hype. He could do it all, including give up his position for Nomar.
The CFBPS numbers are in process. I have realized in renoobulating the system that a complex relationship of transference and counter-transference has developed between myself and the Freudian engine that powers the system. My own de-cathexion from the Red Sox last year and my ongoing ambivalence toward the club are affecting the ultimate projections in some indeterminate ways. But I will have numbers within the next few weeks.
Grr. He says its quite minor.
Just the one leg? Optimist!
i dug up some old source code and was trying to run some simulations, but it kept hanging when i tried to get 2013's projections. i thought it was a bug, but it looks like whoever wrote this code may have been superstitious or possibly clairvoyant ...
while( year % 100 == 13 ) sleep(1000);
i could try to remove that block, but i'm afraid that i might break somebody else's workflow ... so ... check back next year?MLB Spring TV schedule
First Sox games are Feb 27 and March 1 - both live at 7 pm which is nice for people who, you know, work during the day.
Oops, actually the first one is Sun the 24th at 2:30 am! Tape delay for the hardcore fan I guess.
If I can be of assistance, let me know. I am an unapologetic (blind?) 2013 Red Sox optimist.
I kind of am too. Not in the sense that I think the Red Sox will do all that well in 2013, but I'm excited about the youth coming up and the potential that the Red Sox might not be terrible despite making that crippling trade last year. I just like baseball.
+1
Unfortunately, in the case of the Red Sox, that generally means much worse projections in starting pitching but slightly better in a number of hitters.
Name/Sym WAR/fWAR
Lester/4.0/3.0
Dempster/2.4/1.9
Buchholz/2.8/1.5 (!)
Doubront/1.6/1.1
Webster/1.3/.0.9
Pedroia/4.8/5.2
Victorino/2.9/3.4
Ellsbury/2.5/2.9
Middlebrooks/1.8/2.2
The big ones here are Lester and Buchholz, who drop from an okay #1/#2 to an okay #2/#3. On the other hand, the 4 hitters mention make up almost half of the 3.7 wins that disappeared from those 5 starters.
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