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   201. TomH Posted: September 19, 2007 at 06:54 PM (#2532123)
I hope that they are basing nothing on any goofy study by Bill James

so, to which goofy study exactly are you referring? I mean, the man has done so much damage over the years in producing goofy studies, it's hard to know where to start

(heavy sarcasm)
   202. rr Posted: September 19, 2007 at 07:00 PM (#2532134)
Sheehan's column today, "Take a Breather" criticizes the Yankees for not handling this more like the Red Sox. It is subscription, so I can't link it, but he points out that Cano, for example, has not missed a game since May 6. He also says that he thinks Francona is playing for October (again, I think this needs to be about Epstein). Sheehan flat-out says the division means almost nothing (yes, I know the rejoinder already--he is a Yankee fan, he doesn't get it).

Considering how close the Tigers and Mariners have been to the Yankees, I think Sheehan is reaching a little--but supposedly Torre is going to push to the wire.

So, let's see what happens if the Yankees go out in the ALDS while the Red Sox advance. THEN we'll see people saying Torre ###### up by pushing for the division and wearing out the regulars, while the Red Sox, as usual, are ahead of the game. Dayn Perry and Seth Mnookin will love it.

Part of this is cultural:

You have the Yankee-Red Sox culture, which affects different people in different ways, but as Mahnken said, the recent events are in some fans' heads. I doubt they are in players or management's heads.

Also, baseball fans in general are not used to "resting/prepping for the playoffs" without a big lead. What the Red Sox are apparently doing is kind of a new thing.
   203. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 19, 2007 at 07:04 PM (#2532141)
Considering how close the Tigers and Mariners have been to the Yankees, I think Sheehan is reaching a little--but supposedly Torre is going to push to the wire.
People--Torre included--keeping saying this like it's true, but I'm not sure I see it. If he was really going balls-out for the division, I'm not sure he would have made such a show of highlighting that Rivera, Joba, Farnsworth and Vizcaino were all not availible yesterday. Or benching Giambi because he had a sore foot. Didn't matter of course (in fact, sitting Jason worked out dandy) but people might be reading more into Torre's statements than his actions.
   204. rr Posted: September 19, 2007 at 07:13 PM (#2532149)
People--Torre included--keeping saying this like it's true, but I'm not sure I see it. If he was really going balls-out for the division, I'm not sure he would have made such a show of highlighting that Rivera, Joba, Farnsworth and Vizcaino were all not availible yesterday. Or benching Giambi because he had a sore foot. Didn't matter of course (in fact, sitting Jason worked out dandy) but people might be reading more into Torre's statements than his actions.


Well, one thing Sheehan neglected to mention IIRC (I read it quickly) was the "Joba Rules" which are "Epsteinian" (I think Cashman and Epstein likely see eye-to-eye on many issues). I tend to think Torre was (obviously) going balls-out to get the WC. He may back off once he thinks that it is firmly in hand. We'll see if he gives Jeter, Rodriguez, Posada, Cabrera and Cano a day or two off that they might not get in a full-on balls-out situation, and how he deals with Rivera. It would certainly seem reasonable to rest Rodriguez, Jeter and Posada a little bit rather then playing them every singel inning/day in an attempt to catch Boston and to be careful with Rivera.
   205. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 19, 2007 at 07:14 PM (#2532151)
Sheehan's column today, "Take a Breather" criticizes the Yankees for not handling this more like the Red Sox. It is subscription, so I can't link it, but he points out that Cano, for example, has not missed a game since May 6.

With the new playoff schedule, the ALDS will begin either on Wednesday or Thursday, providing a cushion for resting players and aligning the pitching rotation without altering the regular season approach. The Yanks also have tomorrow off.
   206. Nasty Nate Posted: September 19, 2007 at 07:29 PM (#2532174)
goddanmit i never ever win the Sox ticket lotteries. I have entered at every turn for the chance to buy playoff tickets, opening day (2005) tickets, yankee tickets, monster seats etc etc.
   207. rr Posted: September 19, 2007 at 07:36 PM (#2532185)
With the new playoff schedule, the ALDS will begin either on Wednesday or Thursday, providing a cushion for resting players and aligning the pitching rotation without altering the regular season approach. The Yanks also have tomorrow off.


If it starts on Wednesday and they have a travel day to Anaheim, the value of the "cushion" is debatable.

I am not saying I agree with Sheehan. I just thought the counterpoint was interesting.
   208. The Original SJ Posted: September 19, 2007 at 07:44 PM (#2532195)
at what point should the yankees have put on the brakes? last week? when the lead was a game and a half? What would Sheehan have said if they started the house money lineup in Toronto and they lost the lead in the WC?
   209. Textbook Editor Posted: September 19, 2007 at 07:46 PM (#2532197)
Detroit loses again today; the Red Sox WC magic # is 3.
   210. tfbg9 Posted: September 19, 2007 at 07:51 PM (#2532207)
Dear Textbook Editor:


I love you.



-tfbg9
   211. rr Posted: September 19, 2007 at 07:56 PM (#2532218)
at what point should the yankees have put on the brakes? last week


I think he means "starting about now."
   212. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: September 20, 2007 at 12:10 AM (#2532546)
He's always wishing cancer or a fiery death on some bench player or something. I hope he's joking and being hyperbolic, but I wonder. He's one of the main reasons I don't go to my Sox Therapy sessions much anymore.


Is it so wrong to wish that an angry mob takes multiple tire iron shots to Eric Hinske's legs? Is IT???
   213. Darren Posted: September 20, 2007 at 01:27 AM (#2532813)
So, let's see what happens if the Yankees go out in the ALDS while the Red Sox advance. THEN we'll see people saying Torre ###### up by pushing for the division and wearing out the regulars, while the Red Sox, as usual, are ahead of the game. Dayn Perry and Seth Mnookin will love it.


And so will you since you've repeatedly pointed to the Red Sox brilliant braintrust as a reason they can overcome a $60 mil. payroll deficit.
   214. rr Posted: September 20, 2007 at 01:34 AM (#2532833)

And so will you since you've repeatedly pointed to the Red Sox brilliant braintrust as a reason they can overcome a $60 mil. payroll deficit
.

I've asked this before, but I'll ask again:

Which team do you think has:

A better 25-man?
A better farm system?
Better field management?
A better FO?
   215. Darren Posted: September 20, 2007 at 01:53 AM (#2532899)
One night after not inserting Papelbon into a tie game (or a game they led), Francona puts him into the same situation with one more out to get and down by a run. Mindnumbingly inconsistent.

Which team do you think has:

A better 25-man?
A better farm system?
Better field management?
A better FO?


Pretty close on all counts. I know you're on the record saying the Red Sox are far better in every category, despite the fact that the Yanks have won the last 10 divisions. How have the Yankees done that with their inferior management and personnel?
   216. Darren Posted: September 20, 2007 at 01:58 AM (#2532924)
Wrong thread.
   217. Darren Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:01 AM (#2532933)
Strike out the side Jansen. Rub salt into the wounds! These guys are impervious.
   218. rr Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:02 AM (#2532934)
I know you're on the record saying the Red Sox are far better in every category, despite the fact that the Yanks have won the last 10 divisions.


Really? I think the Red Sox are a little better than the Yankees in 2007, and were in 2004, but I don't recall saying that.


Pretty close on all counts


OK. I would agree, giving the current Red Sox a very slight edge on 25-man, and a slight edge on FO. I think FS is pretty even, as is field management.
   219. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:08 AM (#2532965)
1.5 games.
   220. Darren Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:09 AM (#2532970)
So a couple of slight edges to the Red Sox but the Yankees still win the division every year (and tie for it once)? How does that happen?
   221. JC in DC Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:12 AM (#2532979)
People are really going to have to stop blaming this on Francona. For whatever reason, Papelbon is not performing, but it's not on Francona.

Don't you just love baseball, btw?
   222. Dave Cyprian Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:14 AM (#2532994)
this is ridiculous
   223. Nasty Nate Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:14 AM (#2532996)
crikeys
   224. aleskel Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:17 AM (#2533004)
A better 25-man?

Red Sox; about 2 games better

A better farm system?

tie

Better field management?

tie; both Francona and Torre have their moments

A better FO?

tie; a Pavano to a Drew

for what its worth, tonight the Yankees had one of the most favorable strike zones I've seen this year. They were lucky to win.
   225. tfbg9 Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:20 AM (#2533018)
I'm afraid the Sox will actually blow the WC as well. I really am.
   226. rr Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:22 AM (#2533025)
Don't you just love baseball, btw?


Indeed. Sept. has been fun for fandom. I hope Oct matches it.

So a couple of slight edges to the Red Sox but the Yankees still win the division every year (and tie for it once)? How does that happen?


Well, according to you, this year the Tigers and the Red Sox have "handed it to them."

The Yankees were better in 2006. I think they were fortunate to tie the Red Sox in 2005 (see Small, Aaron and Chacon, Shawn). The teams were pretty even in 2003 and 2004, and I think most analysts picked the Red Sox in 7 before the 2004 ALCS. It was the WAY it happened that was amazing.

And, I said "current" as in "2007."

When is Ramirez going to play?
   227. JC in DC Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:22 AM (#2533026)
for what its worth, tonight the Yankees had one of the most favorable strike zones I've seen this year. They were lucky to win.


What? The zone was terrible for both teams, as even Palmer acknowledged. Too large, too low, and at the very end, very inconsistent.
   228. JC in DC Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:23 AM (#2533030)
What is up b/w you and Darren, rr? I don't even get what you're arguing.
   229. Hugh Jorgan Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:24 AM (#2533038)
Thank god we got that out of the way, now its time to start that 6 game win streak and finish this effing thing once and for all.
   230. aleskel Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:26 AM (#2533044)
What? The zone was terrible for both teams, as even Palmer acknowledged. Too large, too low, and at the very end, very inconsistent.

I agree that it was inconsistent, but I think Pettitte got a lot more of the favorable calls. Just my two cents.

In any case, they really won because 1) Pettitte was strong 2) the defense was terrific 3) Mo didn't break; and of course 4) they had a healthy dose of luck.
   231. TVerik - Dr. Velocity Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:28 AM (#2533053)
Is a particularly agile and adept at scooping low throw first baseman more valuable on a team with somewhat scattershot arms in the other IF positions?
   232. JC in DC Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:30 AM (#2533058)
I agree aleskel.

Is that a trick question, Erik? Why wouldn't he be more valuable to a team with scattershot arms?
   233. TVerik - Dr. Velocity Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:33 AM (#2533065)
Didn't mean it as a trick. I was wondering why the Yankees look so much better in general when Dougie plays over there.

Certainly, the timing of his playing coincides nicely with their recent hot run, and I don't think he actually has anything to do with that. But I'm trying to figure out if a guy like him - a bench guy at this point - is able to bring the numbers of other fielders up significantly. A first baseman who doesn't scoop an errant throw is not charged with an error, and I don't think PBP data penalizes him for it either.
   234. BDC Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:33 AM (#2533069)
I'm afraid the Sox will actually blow the WC as well

Well, Detroit lost today, so the Sox' magic number for the Wild Card is three with nine to play. I would say that stranger things have happened, but I'm not sure that's actually true :) With nine to play in 1964, the Phillies' magic number was seven.
   235. TVerik - Dr. Velocity Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:36 AM (#2533078)
For the record (and my piss-poor powers of prediction can be seen earlier in this very thread), I still think this is much ado about nothing, the Sox will win the division, and everyone will forget all about this week after some time has passed.

That said, it's far, far more exciting than I could have hoped right now.
   236. TVerik - Dr. Velocity Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:39 AM (#2533087)
Bad signs for the Yankees:

Mariano has been scaring me almost as much as he did in the beginning of the season. Lots of walks from him lately.

Giambi isn't playing at all. I'd like to see what he has.

A-Rod is really slumping. You could especially see it in tonight's game. He got all of one, and flew out to deep left. When he's on, that's on the Deegan.
   237. tfbg9 Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:43 AM (#2533097)
There is 0% chance that the Red Sox win the Division, as I see things. Zero. Trends, psychology, opponents, injuries all that jazz. The Sox look beaten, they have all sorts of injuries and head cases to deal with, and the NYY's can't lose.

I'm going to win my bet. Where is kevin in all this?
   238. Answer Guy. Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:45 AM (#2533100)
I'm afraid the Sox will actually blow the WC as well. I really am.

Well, of the 3 games at Tampa, one involves Dice-K on our side and another involves Kazmir on theirs. That's bad.

We've had a lot of trouble with Oakland.

Are we sure that Santana won't be pitching one of those four home games vs. Minnesota?
   239. rr Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:47 AM (#2533112)
What is up b/w you and Darren, rr? I don't even get what you're arguing.


It goes back a ways:

1. How much of an advantge the NYY payroll gives them over Bos.
2. Whether the Red Sox are "underdogs" and are/have been in trouble in 2007. To me, the answer is no, since trouble=real chance of missing the postseason.
3. I am admittedly a twitch about RSNCLs due to my knowledge about Larry Lucchino (long story).


I actually respect Darren FWIW.

JC, how do you feel about the Yankees as an October team? As I said upthread, I am skeptcial about things going better for them this time and see the Red Sox as having a slightly better October-type roster. Do you agree or disagree? Don't know?
   240. Misirlou cut his hair and moved to Rome Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:47 AM (#2533115)
Well, Detroit lost today, so the Sox' magic number for the Wild Card is three with nine to play. I would say that stranger things have happened, but I'm not sure that's actually true :) With nine to play in 1964, the Phillies' magic number was seven.


The AL is all wrapped up. And in the NL, no team is yet in the driver's seat. OK, maybe Arizona, but the other three spots are up for grabs.
   241. The Original SJ Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:48 AM (#2533120)
Mariano has been scaring me almost as much as he did in the beginning of the season. Lots of walks from him lately.

Well, 4 in two appearances. before that, his last BB was in midaugust.

His control was fine tonight, the strike zone was a mess.
   242. Random Transaction Generator Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:50 AM (#2533129)
Well, Detroit lost today, so the Sox' magic number for the Wild Card is three with nine to play. I would say that stranger things have happened, but I'm not sure that's actually true :) With nine to play in 1964, the Phillies' magic number was seven.

How about a 3.5 game lead, with 7 to play, and 4 of those games against the team chasing you?
   243. The Original SJ Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:51 AM (#2533133)
see the Red Sox as having a slightly better October-type roster. Do you agree or disagree? Don't know?

I don't get this at all.
   244. TVerik - Dr. Velocity Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:52 AM (#2533136)
So let's review - if these two teams finish with the same record this year, the tiebreaker for the division is record against each other. Which the Yankees have won. So the Sox need to finish one game ahead in order to win the thing, right?
   245. The Original SJ Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:55 AM (#2533144)
half game. if both teams make the playoffs, a rainout is not played.

There are no ties when both teams make the playoffs, the team that wins the tiebreaker wins the division.
   246. JC in DC Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:56 AM (#2533149)
JC, how do you feel about the Yankees as an October team? As I said upthread, I am skeptcial about things going better for them this time and see the Red Sox as having a slightly better October-type roster. Do you agree or disagree? Don't know?


I don't feel good about them, as I said (or implied) in the other thread about the Yankees' roster. I don't like their SPing at all. Way too many ifs, way too many very volatile guys. Their best looking pitcher has been Kennedy, but he's too young and the FO is not bold enough to give him a start. The other guys are enormous question marks.

I don't care about Giambi. I'm glad he's not playing. The lineup is fine. The pitching is not playoff pitching.

IMHO of course.
   247. Answer Guy. Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:59 AM (#2533160)
I have no confidence in the Red Sox right now. None. They have some good pitching, 'tis true, but the hitters are flatlining.

If it's Cleveland, I am seeing Sabathia and Carmona each pitching 4-hit shutouts.

If it's Anaheim, I see Escobar and Saunders both beating the Sox 3-2.
   248. JC in DC Posted: September 20, 2007 at 03:01 AM (#2533174)
Off the ledge, Sox fans. When a team is losing, they look terrible. I learned that (again) this Spring and early summer. The Sox are not nearly as bad as they've played. They'll be formidable in the playoffs, which they'll make.
   249. The Original SJ Posted: September 20, 2007 at 03:05 AM (#2533189)
The Sox remind me a little of the 2000 Yankees. If Manny comes back near full strength, they can easily win it all.
   250. TVerik - Dr. Velocity Posted: September 20, 2007 at 03:05 AM (#2533190)
The difference, of course, is that those Yankees of the first two months really were that bad. Some bench reshuffling, some health from the starting rotation, and getting Melky more PT are the three main reasons why that Yankee team is not this Yankee team.
   251. TVerik - Dr. Velocity Posted: September 20, 2007 at 03:08 AM (#2533199)
I've been accused of moving the goalposts before. But the way the Yankee FO didn't panic when everything was going wrong and managed to stick to something of a plan and the way the young 'uns have played this year means that this was a good season no matter what. A playoff appearance makes this significantly better, and the division would make me ecstatic.
   252. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 20, 2007 at 03:08 AM (#2533200)
3. I am admittedly a twitch about RSNCLs due to my knowledge about Larry Lucchino (long story).
I liked this sentence. It had an acronym I didn't understand, a turn of phrase I'm iffy on ("I am...a twitch") a vague illusion to a personal relationship to a key member of the Red Sox front office that would color one's views. That's a quality #3 in a list of three items.
   253. TVerik - Dr. Velocity Posted: September 20, 2007 at 03:09 AM (#2533206)
an acronym I didn't understand

Red
Sox
Nation's
Circular
Logic
   254. aleskel Posted: September 20, 2007 at 03:12 AM (#2533210)
The difference, of course, is that those Yankees of the first two months really were that bad. Some bench reshuffling, some health from the starting rotation, and getting Melky more PT are the three main reasons why that Yankee team is not this Yankee team.

I would throw in the Clemens signing. His performance has been replacement-level, but taking the starts from the DeSalvos and Clippards of the world was important
   255. BDC Posted: September 20, 2007 at 03:15 AM (#2533217)
How about a 3.5 game lead, with 7 to play, and 4 of those games against the team chasing you?

Hideous to be sure, but the Jays' magic number was still seven with seven left in '87, as opposed to three with nine left.

The Dodgers' magic number was five with nine left in 1951. I guess that cuts it pretty close. OK, things almost as strange have happened. Sorry for bringing it up, Sox fans :)
   256. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: September 20, 2007 at 03:18 AM (#2533229)
That can't be right, Erik, because it doesn't work as a plural, which rr clearly means it to be.

Incidentally, Clemens performance isn't close to being replacement-level bad, unless they've raised that bar a bunch. He's not worth the cash in R/$ terms, but let's not overstate things
   257. Answer Guy. Posted: September 20, 2007 at 03:20 AM (#2533235)
I'd like to think the Sox could win at least one game in each of the remaining series, but they're not showing me much of anything at the moment.
   258. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: September 20, 2007 at 03:29 AM (#2533254)
His performance has been replacement-level


EDIT: Too late and see you responded.
   259. aleskel Posted: September 20, 2007 at 03:29 AM (#2533255)
Incidentally, Clemens performance isn't close to being replacement-level bad, unless they've raised that bar a bunch.

you're right; I wanted to say "mediocre" or "average", just didn't think it was descriptive enough.
   260. tfbg9 Posted: September 20, 2007 at 03:31 AM (#2533259)
What just happened, the Sox losing the last game of the Yankee series Sunday night, then NYY's sweeping, while the Jays sweep the Sox was roughtly a 1 in 40 pure chance event--but it wasn't, the Sox are choking. Plain and simple. Seen it before.
   261. Chip Posted: September 20, 2007 at 03:42 AM (#2533270)
Could it be any more obvious at this point that Furtado invented the tfbg9 Bot purely to entertain the few remaining Yankee fans on this site, so that they don't take their pageviews to replacementlevel.com, or wherever else they go when they're not here?
   262. Hugh Jorgan Posted: September 20, 2007 at 03:45 AM (#2533271)
O.k. whingers, bring it on!! So the lead is a might skinny. Yee of little faith, we will win this division by taking at least 6 or our next 9 games and then pummell all comers in the playoffs! We just took some time to get our bad play out of our systems...not its time to rock!
   263. Chip Posted: September 20, 2007 at 03:48 AM (#2533274)
not its time to rock!


Bluto: Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

Otter: Germans?

Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
   264. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 20, 2007 at 03:48 AM (#2533275)
Red
Sox
Nation
Chicken
Littles
?
   265. Hugh Jorgan Posted: September 20, 2007 at 03:53 AM (#2533278)
#263
Damn, it never has the same effect when I stuff it with a typo! My only concern was when I got in the car this morning my Red Sox key ring fell apart with the actual red sock coming off the ring itself...a harbinger of things to come? I think not!!
   266. tfbg9 Posted: September 20, 2007 at 03:56 AM (#2533280)
Anybody who dosn't think that a big part of the Red Sox struggles the last week or so is psychological is dead wrong, Chip.

My coin flip method produces a 3-4% chance that what just happened will happen. To say it was pure chance is pure nonsense. They're pressing like crazy.
   267. tfbg9 Posted: September 20, 2007 at 03:58 AM (#2533283)
Manny's out for a while, also. Team can't score much without him these days.
   268. Chip Posted: September 20, 2007 at 04:00 AM (#2533285)
The AI code Furtado used for the Bot is so funny - right down to pretending other posters said things they didn't say!
   269. tfbg9 Posted: September 20, 2007 at 04:00 AM (#2533286)
Who holds the tiebeaker between BOS and DET?
   270. tfbg9 Posted: September 20, 2007 at 04:01 AM (#2533287)
So you do think they're feeling the heat, silly human?
   271. Hugh Jorgan Posted: September 20, 2007 at 04:01 AM (#2533288)
#266
Oh I totally agree its phychological, but that's the beauty of it isn't it? One decent win to get that positive feeling back and its done, they go on a roll that ends in a WS victory!
   272. . . . . . . Posted: September 20, 2007 at 04:04 AM (#2533292)
With this Okajima shutdown, I'm starting to think that the Sox might be playing possum.
   273. tfbg9 Posted: September 20, 2007 at 04:04 AM (#2533293)
Somebody answer #269 please?
   274. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 20, 2007 at 04:05 AM (#2533294)
Geez, it's been four whole minutes. You could try looking it up yourself, you know.

EDIT: In case you really didn't know, they don't use tie breakers unless both teams make the post season. The Red Sox and Tigers would have a one game play-off for the wild card.
   275. Hugh Jorgan Posted: September 20, 2007 at 04:06 AM (#2533295)
#269
It won't matter, the Sox are going to the playoffs!!
   276. tfbg9 Posted: September 20, 2007 at 04:07 AM (#2533296)
Where?
   277. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 20, 2007 at 04:09 AM (#2533298)
check the edit to 274

EDIT: or did you mean who won the coin flip to host the game? I have no idea.
   278. Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: September 20, 2007 at 04:10 AM (#2533299)
Boston lost the season series (3-4) against Detroit, but that doesn't matter since a tie would result in a playoff game.

Besides, Boston is going to the post season. They'll probably win the division, but if they don't they're getting in as the WC.

As for the Sox fans, you guys sound like I (and many other Yankees fans) did at the beginning of the season. You're not nearly this bad and we're not nearly this good. I will go crazy if the Yankees win the division, but it won't mean anything if the Sox win the WS. And I think the Cardinals and Tigers showed last year how you finish the regular season doesn't matter much as long as you're in the playoffs.
   279. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: September 20, 2007 at 04:10 AM (#2533300)
Who holds the tiebeaker between BOS and DET?


There is no tiebreaker for Bos and Det. It's a one-game playoff. Not that it's in anyway relevant.
   280. tfbg9 Posted: September 20, 2007 at 04:12 AM (#2533302)
I had forgot that, IE.
   281. tfbg9 Posted: September 20, 2007 at 04:13 AM (#2533304)
*forgotten*

(see-not a bot)
   282. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: September 20, 2007 at 04:13 AM (#2533305)
There are no ties when both teams make the playoffs, the team that wins the tiebreaker wins the division.


You do realize this is contradictory. You don't employ a tiebreaker if there is no tie. Calling the tiebreaker winner the division champ is one thing (and I though the bet should have been paid off), but you can't pretend that the race didn't/doesn't end in a tie.
   283. Hugh Jorgan Posted: September 20, 2007 at 04:13 AM (#2533306)
tiffbag--let me repeat, the Sox are going to the playoffs, there will be no playoff, the Tigers are done and dusted.
   284. tfbg9 Posted: September 20, 2007 at 04:15 AM (#2533308)
Well, something almost as crazy did happen.
   285. Chip Posted: September 20, 2007 at 04:19 AM (#2533311)
So you do think they're feeling the heat, silly human?


Seriously? No. I've been sold by Darren and others on the "they don't give a ####\" arguments. It's been obvious for the entire month from the roster management - the extreme conservatism with injuries, the overprotection of Buchholz, the weird patterns of relief usage - that they decided in the last couple of weeks to coast home, and that attitude has been communicated to the few regulars who are still in the lineup. Manny and Coco would definitely have been playing this whole series if they were feeling any heat, for example.
   286. tfbg9 Posted: September 20, 2007 at 04:27 AM (#2533316)
By feeling the heat I meant "pressing". And I don't know about Manny, Tito was pretty down about him today.
   287. The Original SJ Posted: September 20, 2007 at 05:33 AM (#2533346)
You do realize this is contradictory. You don't employ a tiebreaker if there is no tie. Calling the tiebreaker winner the division champ is one thing (and I though the bet should have been paid off), but you can't pretend that the race didn't/doesn't end in a tie.

I am not pretending they didn't end with the same record, but of course, that is not the question. The question is the division winner. In 2005 it was the yanks, if they tie this year, it will be the yanks.

And yes, the bet was too see who would win the division, and Vegas paid the Yankees, as Biff should have.
   288. Phil Coorey. Posted: September 20, 2007 at 08:22 AM (#2533368)
I don't know what to think anymore, but in my round of golf today I hit 3 snap hooks ( inever hit snap hooks) and I blame fukking Tito!
   289. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: September 20, 2007 at 11:10 AM (#2533378)
No. I've been sold by Darren and others on the "they don't give a ####" arguments.

I'm not sold on that. I just think somebobdy needs to be fired due to incompetence.

the extreme conservatism with injuries

If they were actually Conservative, Big Papi would have had at least one DL visit, Okajima would not be hilariously overworked and overexposed, and they would have gone toa 6 man rotation with Dice-K
   290. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: September 20, 2007 at 12:54 PM (#2533416)
Seriously? No. I've been sold by Darren and others on the "they don't give a ####" arguments. It's been obvious for the entire month from the roster management - the extreme conservatism with injuries, the overprotection of Buchholz, the weird patterns of relief usage - that they decided in the last couple of weeks to coast home, and that attitude has been communicated to the few regulars who are still in the lineup. Manny and Coco would definitely have been playing this whole series if they were feeling any heat, for example.
I would suggest that the front office not giving a #### has had psychological effects. If you're being told implicitly, day in and day out, that the outcome of the games doesn't really matter that much, I don't think you're going to play your best, I don't think you're going to bear down quite as hard in the biggest situations.

I don't see the problems as something wrong with the Red Sox roster as constituted - I think they're just reacting to environmental stimuli, basically - but I think that this points to one of the problems with treating the regular season as meaningless. The players are going to be influenced by that choice, and they won't play as well. The Sox decision to punt on the division was probably based on calculations that expected the players to perform at their typical level, but the decision itself has then had effects on the level of play.

EDIT: maybe that's what you were saying to begin with. in which case, yes, I agree.
   291. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: September 20, 2007 at 01:07 PM (#2533421)
This is very amusing. 1.5 games up and heading to Tampa Bay, where the RS do well. Then, 2 games against an Oakland team that is 7 and 11 in September, and has 3 games in Cleveland before coming to Boston, where they will roll over. Then, 4 games against a Minnesota team that is 7 and 10 in September, and playing out the string.

The Red Sox aren't playing well right now. Most teams have bad stretches. Tampa pitching should help them get back on track.
   292. covelli chris p Posted: September 20, 2007 at 01:12 PM (#2533424)
The Red Sox aren't playing well right now.

pants pisser.
   293. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: September 20, 2007 at 01:27 PM (#2533433)
Tampa pitching should help them get back on track.

Everytime Scott Kazmir pitches, I feel like committing seppuku.
   294. Nasty Nate Posted: September 20, 2007 at 01:32 PM (#2533436)
this would be WAY more exciting/terrifying if there were no wild-card
   295. Famous Original Joe C Posted: September 20, 2007 at 01:42 PM (#2533443)
I'm with Joe Bivens. Big deal. They'll make the playoffs. Where they'll get hot, and they'll go far, or they will run into another team that got hot, and they won't. WTF knows?
   296. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 20, 2007 at 01:48 PM (#2533448)
they're just reacting to environmental stimuli, basically

Maybe they should play the games in a Skinner box.

I feel like committing seppuku.

Considering how many people you've wished cancer on, you should.
   297. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 20, 2007 at 01:48 PM (#2533449)
They'll make the playoffs. Where they'll get hot, and they'll go far, or they will run into another team that got hot, and they won't. WTF knows?

So you're saying it's a crapshoot?
   298. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: September 20, 2007 at 01:49 PM (#2533450)
Considering how many people you've wished cancer on, you should.

3 isn't an excessive amount!

Buy me a Katana!
   299. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 20, 2007 at 01:52 PM (#2533455)
Buy me a Katana!

Woefully unprepared.
   300. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: September 20, 2007 at 02:03 PM (#2533464)
Woefully unprepared.

You can't expect to have suicide tools for more than one method. Jeez, everybody's a critic.
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