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Sox Therapy — Where Thinking Red Sox Fans Obsess about the Sox Tuesday, June 06, 2023Feeling A DraftWith the Sox’ 2023 season going so swimmingly, really everything is just perfect, I figure now is a good time to look ahead a bit to next month’s draft. In all seriousness the College World Series starts next Thursday with Regional play currently going on and Super Regionals starting this weekend so players of note are going to be on display for various college teams. I am far from a draft wiz so I am not going to try and make any real analysis of the guys out there. I highly recommend Baseball America and of course when talking about non-MLB related stuff around the Sox go to SoxProspects.com. One consistent theme I have seen with the expectations for the Sox is to watch for them to look for a high end bat, particularly a high school one, early on. In the Chaim Bloom era the Sox have followed a simple path with their first two picks; a high-end high school bat: Nick Yorke (2020), Marcelo Mayer (2021) and Mikey Romero (2022), then backstopped that with sluggers on their second picks with Blaze Jordan (2020), Jud Fabian (2021-unsigned) and Cutter Coffey (2022). So while we wait to see who they take let’s look at a few quick names and the history of some picks. Names To Watch: Tommy Troy - SS - Stanford Kevin McGonigle - SS - Monsignor Bonner HS (PA) Blake Mitchell - C - Sinter HS (TX) Pick #14 - Top Five; Red Sox picks: Pick #50 - Top Five; Red Sox picks: Pick #83 - Top Five; Red Sox picks;
Jose is an Absurd Sultan
Posted: June 06, 2023 at 02:09 PM | 22 comment(s)
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1. villageidiom Posted: June 06, 2023 at 04:06 PM (#6131675)Nothing of substance to add until after the draft, except that I suspect the HS hitter route is not a temporary thing. I wouldn't expect HS hitters to be more projectable as prospects than college hitters, but I think that for the best of them you have a decent chance at extending them before they've already gotten expensive. College players will already be expensive by the time you can extend them, so the value window is narrower.
Fun fact: I student-taught at this school many, many moons ago. The experience cured me of my desire to be a HS teacher.
I didn't think Philly Archdiocese schools were considered baseball hotbeds, but admittedly I don't pay attention to such things.
Agree. But if you’re taking second tier talents, I’d rather have the guy who has a chance to be an above average MLB hitter. I don’t think Teel has much of a chance without a major S&C transformation because he is just wailing the #### out of it with his swing and still not generating the sort of pop that translates to a wood bat. He’s got this big long swing that I suspect is vulnerable to pro velocity up, and his body as is is really narrow. Becoming a good pro hitter requires two things to hit: (1) gotta make contact and (2) when you do make contact it has to be hard enough contact so that pro level defenses can’t turn it into outs. I can buy that Teel has a decent shot on hitting on (1) - he’s got fantastic eye-hand - but (2) seems like an impossibility without some crazy gym work.
So you're suggesting Teel is a bit green without some extra work?
Quotes like this, which speculate that Teel may actually be a little green, are making me feel a little blue.
Regardless, when his agent approaches the Red Sox about a contract, he'll likely start by saying, "Teel? Pay, pal."
Keep in mind noted hulk Mookie Betts is hitting in the HR Derby this year. Not saying Teel will be anywhere close to Betts, but size isn't everything.
IMO Teel’s draft stock is mostly a gamble that he can stick at catcher. I hate drafting like that - the assumption, especially at catcher, should be that the guy won’t stick and would the bat play at a corner.
Over lunch, I took a few minutes to try to answer a question: How often do college catchers get drafted, and then become successful as catchers? I didn't have time to dig in, so I didn't look at high school draftees, or obviously international signings - this isn't meant to be definitive in any way.
However, since the common draft started in 1965, there are 33 players who were drafted as catchers, and end up with at least 10 career WAR:
Craig Biggio 65.4
Josh Donaldson 46.8
Thurman Munson 46.1
Buster Posey 44.8
Jim Sundberg 40.5
Mickey Tettleton 29.3
Jason Varitek 24.2
Scott Hoiles 23.5
Charles Johnson 22.6
Terry Kennedy 21.6
Yasmani Grandal 20.2
John Stearns 19.7
Kurt Suzuki 19.5
Don Slaught 19.4
Todd Zeile 19.3
Brandon Inge 19.2
Yan Gomes 18.7
Matt Wieters 18.3
Paul DoLuca 17.9
Matt LuCroy 17.7
Alex Avila 17.1
Ted Sizemore 16.1
Chris Iannetta 15.0
Ron Hassey 14.7
Mike MacFarlane 14.7
Paul DeJong 14.1
Will Smith 13.6
Dan Wilson 13.0
Jason Castro 12.4
Sean Murphy 11.6
Scott Hatteberg 10.0
David Ross 10.0
Kyle Schwarber 10.0
There are a few more recent draftees who will likely join this list, including Adley Rutschman (7.4), Mitch Garver (8.2), and a few others.
But if you look at that 33, several were clearly not career catchers, including Schwarber, Donaldson, Biggio, and Zeile.
So when you at the remaining 29 or so:
1) There are so many more college catchers who have been drafted, including high in the draft, that never made it, or who got a cup of coffee, or who were career backups who ended up with between -5 and 5 WAR, etc. Only 15 of these players are in the top 1000 in career WAR, and at least four of them can't really be considered career catchers. Only one is a HOF (Biggio), and one other will likely be in the HOF (Posey).
2) Question for you: If I told you that any of these 33 players had been taken #1 overall in a draft, and ended up being exactly what they were, would you be pleased that your team drafted them? If not, how many would you be pleased your team drafted #1 overall?
3) If I told you that Kyle Teel ended up having Ron Hassey's career, would you feel good about it, as a Red Sox fan? How about John Stearns? I think a lot of Orioles fans would probably say Matt Wieters was a bit of a disappointment relative to massive expectations...but if you at this context, there are only about 15 true catchers in the last 55+ years drafted out of college who did more than him. That sounds pretty successful.
4) Maybe I'm wrong, but it seemed like the list of non-four year college players drafted included more high-ceiling careers (Bench, Carter, Mauer, Fisk, etc) than this list.
I think I kind of agree with #13, that if you are going to draft a catcher, you better feel good that the bat can translate to a position switch, or else it is a high-risk pick.
Good? No. More like thrilled. Well above average return for the #14 pick and around to 10 all time for that slot. All at position where WAR is hard to accumulate.
Are these your observations or is this from a shooting source?
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