Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Sox Therapy > Discussion
Sox Therapy
— Where Thinking Red Sox Fans Obsess about the Sox

Tuesday, June 06, 2023

Feeling A Draft

With the Sox’ 2023 season going so swimmingly, really everything is just perfect, I figure now is a good time to look ahead a bit to next month’s draft.  In all seriousness the College World Series starts next Thursday with Regional play currently going on and Super Regionals starting this weekend so players of note are going to be on display for various college teams.  I am far from a draft wiz so I am not going to try and make any real analysis of the guys out there.  I highly recommend Baseball America and of course when talking about non-MLB related stuff around the Sox go to SoxProspects.com.  One consistent theme I have seen with the expectations for the Sox is to watch for them to look for a high end bat, particularly a high school one, early on.  In the Chaim Bloom era the Sox have followed a simple path with their first two picks; a high-end high school bat: Nick Yorke (2020), Marcelo Mayer (2021) and Mikey Romero (2022), then backstopped that with sluggers on their second picks with Blaze Jordan (2020), Jud Fabian (2021-unsigned) and Cutter Coffey (2022). 

So while we wait to see who they take let’s look at a few quick names and the history of some picks.

Names To Watch:

Tommy Troy - SS - Stanford
MLB.com sez: Troy’s standout tool is his ability to make consistent, hard contact from the right side of the plate. He has impressive bat-to-ball skills and rarely strikes out or chases out of the zone, showing excellent pitch recognition, though there are some moving parts of his swing. There’s enough extra-base pop in there for there not to be concerns about impact at the next level and he could have average power in the future. He’s answered some concerns about his approach and lack of walks by being more selective in 2023.
Jose’s dream comp - Kevin Youkilis

Kevin McGonigle - SS - Monsignor Bonner HS (PA)
MLB.com sez: An average to fringy runner, McGonigle’s high baseball IQ and aggressive nature help his baserunning and his defense. His hands work well and he has an average arm, but many see the Auburn recruit needing to move to second eventually because of his range, just like his baseball role model did. That might put more pressure on his bat, but most evaluators think he’s more than ready to answer that challenge.
Jose’s dream comp - Dustin Pedroia

Blake Mitchell - C - Sinter HS (TX)
MLB.com sez: Mitchell would fit the offensive profile in right field if he couldn’t stick behind the plate, but there’s no reason to doubt he’ll be a catcher. Although he’s a well-below-average runner, he’s an athletic and agile defender who projects at least as an average receiver and blocker with double-plus arm strength. He’d fit into the top two rounds as a pitcher, with an easy delivery that produces a fastball that reaches 97 mph, a downer curveball and a promising changeup with tumble.
Jose’s dream comp - BJ Surhoff

Pick #14 - Top Five;
Jason Heyward - 2007 - 39.9 WAR
Derrek Lee - 1993 - 34.5
Tino Martinez - 1988 - 29.0
Cliff Floyd - 1991 - 25.9
Jason Varitek - 1994 - 24.2

Red Sox picks:
Greg McMurtry - 1986 - Unsigned
John Marzano - 1984 - 0.3 WAR

Pick #50 - Top Five;
Dennis Eckersley - 1972 - 62.1
Al Leiter - 1984 - 40.0
Brian Roberts - 1999 - 29.5
Adam Dunn - 1998 - 17.9
Seth Smith - 2004 - 11.6

Red Sox picks:
N/A

Pick #83 - Top Five;
Barry Zito - 1998 - 31.9
Cliff Johnson - 1966 - 16.2
Adam Lind - 2004 - 12.7
Sean Murphy - 2016 - 10.1
Mark Williamson - 1982 - 6.6

Red Sox picks;
Not That Mike Witt - 1967 - Did not make majors
Eric Wedge - 1989 - 0.2
Aaron Bates - 2006 - 0.0


That’s the picks the Sox have in the first hundred selections.  We can leave this here if anyone is interested in draft chatter.

Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: June 06, 2023 at 02:09 PM | 22 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Related News:

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. villageidiom Posted: June 06, 2023 at 04:06 PM (#6131675)
Kevin McGonigle - SS - Monsignor Bonner HS (PA)
I skimmed this, then after the description I went back to see what his name was. For about 5 seconds I thought Monsignor Bonner was a fantastic player name.

Nothing of substance to add until after the draft, except that I suspect the HS hitter route is not a temporary thing. I wouldn't expect HS hitters to be more projectable as prospects than college hitters, but I think that for the best of them you have a decent chance at extending them before they've already gotten expensive. College players will already be expensive by the time you can extend them, so the value window is narrower.
   2. Textbook Editor Posted: June 06, 2023 at 11:48 PM (#6131757)
Kevin McGonigle - SS - Monsignor Bonner HS (PA)


Fun fact: I student-taught at this school many, many moons ago. The experience cured me of my desire to be a HS teacher.

I didn't think Philly Archdiocese schools were considered baseball hotbeds, but admittedly I don't pay attention to such things.
   3. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: July 09, 2023 at 08:21 PM (#6136571)
Red Sox first pick is a college catcher; Kyle Teel. MLB.com had him the 7th best prospect on their list and had this to say about him.

Scouting grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 45 | Run: 50 | Arm: 65 | Field: 50 | Overall: 55

Teel was a very good high school prospect in New Jersey, one who was considered a Top 100 talent, until he removed his name from Draft consideration during the pandemic-shortened 2020 season in order to honor his commitment to the University of Virginia. He’s been a full-time starter since he arrived in Charlottesville, putting up better numbers as a freshman than he did as a sophomore and is generally considered to be the top college backstop in the class of 2023.

A left-handed-hitting backstop, Teel has the chance to hit for average and power, though he’s gotten caught a bit in between trying to be a hitter with some pop or a power guy. He was more hit over power in high school, but he has been trying to show off the pop more, perhaps a reason why he hit just .276 in 2022, though he’s found the right balance this spring. He does have an advanced approach, walking more than he struck out last year, and while struggles in the Cape Cod League and with Team USA last summer led some to worry about the hit tool, he’s answered them during his junior year.

Extremely athletic, Teel has seen time in the outfield and probably could handle playing second or third, but he has every chance to stick behind the plate. He has an easily plus arm and his athleticism helps his overall receiving. He gets high marks for his baseball IQ and leadership skills, and with his bat showing up more consistently, his name is floating up Draft boards.
   4. . . . . . . Posted: July 09, 2023 at 08:37 PM (#6136572)
Fwiw, I really didn’t like Teel. I don’t think he’s got enough power with a wood bat.
   5. DCA Posted: July 09, 2023 at 08:42 PM (#6136573)
This draft was really 4-5 deep and then a dropoff. Teel is good value for where he was picked. If he was any better, he wouldn't have been available (as is, he should have gone earlier anyway).
   6. Nasty Nate Posted: July 09, 2023 at 09:05 PM (#6136576)
He’s been a full-time starter since he arrived in Charlottesville, putting up better numbers as a freshman than he did as a sophomore and is generally considered to be the top college backstop in the class of 2023.

A left-handed-hitting backstop, Teel has the chance to hit for average and power, though he’s gotten caught a bit in between trying to be a hitter with some pop or a power guy. He was more hit over power in high school, but he has been trying to show off the pop more, perhaps a reason why he hit just .276 in 2022, though he’s found the right balance this spring.
When was that blurb written? He hit .400 this year as far as I can tell.
   7. . . . . . . Posted: July 09, 2023 at 10:06 PM (#6136579)
This draft was really 4-5 deep and then a dropoff. Teel is good value for where he was picked. If he was any better, he wouldn't have been available (as is, he should have gone earlier anyway).


Agree. But if you’re taking second tier talents, I’d rather have the guy who has a chance to be an above average MLB hitter. I don’t think Teel has much of a chance without a major S&C transformation because he is just wailing the #### out of it with his swing and still not generating the sort of pop that translates to a wood bat. He’s got this big long swing that I suspect is vulnerable to pro velocity up, and his body as is is really narrow. Becoming a good pro hitter requires two things to hit: (1) gotta make contact and (2) when you do make contact it has to be hard enough contact so that pro level defenses can’t turn it into outs. I can buy that Teel has a decent shot on hitting on (1) - he’s got fantastic eye-hand - but (2) seems like an impossibility without some crazy gym work.
   8. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: July 09, 2023 at 11:30 PM (#6136593)
I don’t think Teel has much of a chance without a major S&C transformation


So you're suggesting Teel is a bit green without some extra work?
   9. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: July 10, 2023 at 07:29 AM (#6136595)
So you're suggesting Teel is a bit green without some extra work?


Quotes like this, which speculate that Teel may actually be a little green, are making me feel a little blue.

Regardless, when his agent approaches the Red Sox about a contract, he'll likely start by saying, "Teel? Pay, pal."
   10. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: July 10, 2023 at 07:34 AM (#6136596)
Dumb puns aside, I do like that MLB is trying to make the draft more accessible and interesting to fans. It's never going to be like the NBA or NFL draft, where we've seen a lot of the best prospects play already, and where one guy can change the fortunes of a franchise. It does seem there is more pre-draft information readily available than ever before, and last night was probably the first time, besides the Mayer pick, that I've been keeping an eye on who would be available for the Red Sox.
   11. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: July 10, 2023 at 08:21 AM (#6136598)
Second rounder was Nazzen Zanatello. 52nd on MLB's predraft list;

Scouting grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 55 | Run: 55 | Arm: 55 | Field: 50 | Overall: 50

Zanetello climbed up Draft boards with a strong showcase circuit, beginning with MVP honors at the Breakthrough Series in June. He stood out in athletic testing at the PDP League in July, raked at the World Wood Bat Association World Championship in October and led Team USA in hitting (.429) at an 18-and-under World Cup qualifying tournament in November. Scouts love his five-tool potential as well as his makeup.

Zanetello has a wiry 6-foot-2 frame with room to add more muscle, and his strong hands and wrists produce plenty of bat speed and 25-homer potential. He doesn't have the prettiest right-handed swing but makes a lot of hard contact. He also shows good control of the strike zone and produced against quality pitching throughout the summer.

While Zanetello has clocked run times that earn grades from anywhere from 45 to 70 on the 20-80 scouting scale, the consensus is that he'll probably have solid speed once he's physically mature. His athleticism and strong arm help him make plays at shortstop, where he projects as an average defender. The Arkansas commit has looked solid in stints in center field and should provide similar glovework if he shifts to third base.
   12. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: July 10, 2023 at 09:46 AM (#6136605)


Agree. But if you’re taking second tier talents, I’d rather have the guy who has a chance to be an above average MLB hitter. I don’t think Teel has much of a chance without a major S&C transformation because he is just wailing the #### out of it with his swing and still not generating the sort of pop that translates to a wood bat. He’s got this big long swing that I suspect is vulnerable to pro velocity up, and his body as is is really narrow. Becoming a good pro hitter requires two things to hit: (1) gotta make contact and (2) when you do make contact it has to be hard enough contact so that pro level defenses can’t turn it into outs. I can buy that Teel has a decent shot on hitting on (1) - he’s got fantastic eye-hand - but (2) seems like an impossibility without some crazy gym work.


Keep in mind noted hulk Mookie Betts is hitting in the HR Derby this year. Not saying Teel will be anywhere close to Betts, but size isn't everything.
   13. . . . . . . Posted: July 10, 2023 at 10:50 AM (#6136612)
Size isn’t everything but bat speed is. Ted Williams was narrow as they come but the way his bat whipped through the zone was incredible. Teel’s swing is different - high effort, long, loopy. He is absolutely maxing out what he can do with his current build with his mechanics. Meanwhile just within the ACC, that guy on NC State - groover? - hits the ball harder with much less effort. He doesn’t have the loft yet but I think you can see the clay to mold a big league hitter there.

IMO Teel’s draft stock is mostly a gamble that he can stick at catcher. I hate drafting like that - the assumption, especially at catcher, should be that the guy won’t stick and would the bat play at a corner.
   14. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: July 10, 2023 at 01:12 PM (#6136626)
I'm obviously rooting for Teel to be successful, and I don't know #### about him except for what has been put out there the last few days.

Over lunch, I took a few minutes to try to answer a question: How often do college catchers get drafted, and then become successful as catchers? I didn't have time to dig in, so I didn't look at high school draftees, or obviously international signings - this isn't meant to be definitive in any way.

However, since the common draft started in 1965, there are 33 players who were drafted as catchers, and end up with at least 10 career WAR:

Craig Biggio 65.4
Josh Donaldson 46.8
Thurman Munson 46.1
Buster Posey 44.8
Jim Sundberg 40.5
Mickey Tettleton 29.3
Jason Varitek 24.2
Scott Hoiles 23.5
Charles Johnson 22.6
Terry Kennedy 21.6
Yasmani Grandal 20.2
John Stearns 19.7
Kurt Suzuki 19.5
Don Slaught 19.4
Todd Zeile 19.3
Brandon Inge 19.2
Yan Gomes 18.7
Matt Wieters 18.3
Paul DoLuca 17.9
Matt LuCroy 17.7
Alex Avila 17.1
Ted Sizemore 16.1
Chris Iannetta 15.0
Ron Hassey 14.7
Mike MacFarlane 14.7
Paul DeJong 14.1
Will Smith 13.6
Dan Wilson 13.0
Jason Castro 12.4
Sean Murphy 11.6
Scott Hatteberg 10.0
David Ross 10.0
Kyle Schwarber 10.0

There are a few more recent draftees who will likely join this list, including Adley Rutschman (7.4), Mitch Garver (8.2), and a few others.

But if you look at that 33, several were clearly not career catchers, including Schwarber, Donaldson, Biggio, and Zeile.

So when you at the remaining 29 or so:
1) There are so many more college catchers who have been drafted, including high in the draft, that never made it, or who got a cup of coffee, or who were career backups who ended up with between -5 and 5 WAR, etc. Only 15 of these players are in the top 1000 in career WAR, and at least four of them can't really be considered career catchers. Only one is a HOF (Biggio), and one other will likely be in the HOF (Posey).

2) Question for you: If I told you that any of these 33 players had been taken #1 overall in a draft, and ended up being exactly what they were, would you be pleased that your team drafted them? If not, how many would you be pleased your team drafted #1 overall?

3) If I told you that Kyle Teel ended up having Ron Hassey's career, would you feel good about it, as a Red Sox fan? How about John Stearns? I think a lot of Orioles fans would probably say Matt Wieters was a bit of a disappointment relative to massive expectations...but if you at this context, there are only about 15 true catchers in the last 55+ years drafted out of college who did more than him. That sounds pretty successful.

4) Maybe I'm wrong, but it seemed like the list of non-four year college players drafted included more high-ceiling careers (Bench, Carter, Mauer, Fisk, etc) than this list.

I think I kind of agree with #13, that if you are going to draft a catcher, you better feel good that the bat can translate to a position switch, or else it is a high-risk pick.
   15. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: July 10, 2023 at 02:50 PM (#6136635)
Atlanta based high school shortstop Antonio Anderson becomes a Red Sox in the third round. The Sox get the 77th ranked player at #115.

Scouting grades: Hit: 55 | Power: 50 | Run: 45 | Arm: 60 | Field: 45 | Overall: 45

Jay Austin went in the second round of the 2008 Draft to the Astros, and 15 years later, Anderson could match him as the highest pick in North Atlanta (Ga.) HS history. He has a chance to hit for power and average, though his future defensive home remains in question. The consensus is that his offensive prowess alone will get him drafted high enough to divert him from a commitment to Georgia Tech.

Scouts prefer the switch-hitting Anderson's left-handed swing because he turns it loose more often than his right-handed stroke. He has a balanced approach, shows the ability to make adjustments and can handle breaking balls. With his bat speed and projected strength gains, he should develop at least 20-homer power.

Anderson is a fringy runner and lacks the twitchy athleticism to remain at shortstop, his high school position. The best-case scenario is that he becomes an offensive second baseman, though he may not have enough quickness to play up the middle. He does have a strong arm that has clocked fastballs up to 91 mph on the mound, so third base is his likely destination.
   16. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: July 10, 2023 at 02:52 PM (#6136636)
Fourth round pick is RHP Matt Duffy. Folks, we have our first signability pick!!!
   17. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: July 10, 2023 at 03:18 PM (#6136643)
Shortstops Kristian Campbell (5th) and Justin Reimer (6th) are next picks. Sox are going the signability route here.
   18. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: July 10, 2023 at 03:37 PM (#6136648)
LHP Connolly Early goes in the 7th round. Another signing pick. Wonder if they had a deal with Anderson.
   19. The Mighty Quintana Posted: July 10, 2023 at 06:48 PM (#6136691)
I would've gone with Hurston Waldrop from Florida at 14, he's going to be a really good starter.
   20. Darren Posted: July 10, 2023 at 11:01 PM (#6136724)
3) If I told you that Kyle Teel ended up having Ron Hassey's career, would you feel good about it, as a Red Sox fan? How about John Stearns?


Good? No. More like thrilled. Well above average return for the #14 pick and around to 10 all time for that slot. All at position where WAR is hard to accumulate.
   21. Darren Posted: July 10, 2023 at 11:04 PM (#6136725)
The info in #14 is interesting but hard to interpret without context about how players from other positions fared.
   22. Darren Posted: July 10, 2023 at 11:27 PM (#6136728)
He’s got this big long swing that I suspect is vulnerable to pro velocity up, and his body as is is really narrow.


Are these your observations or is this from a shooting source?

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
robneyer
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Syndicate

Page rendered in 0.3589 seconds
58 querie(s) executed