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— Where Thinking Red Sox Fans Obsess about the Sox

Monday, July 10, 2023

Halfwayish to Something

With the baseball world taking its traditional midseason break it’s time to revisit the local nine and how things rolled in the first half;

MVP - Alex Verdugo - I think you could go a number of different directions here.  Depending on how you want to look at it I think you could make a case for Verdugo, James Paxton, Brayan Bello and even Jarren Duran.  But in the end I’m going with Dugie.  A bit of a…something in Cleveland when he was benched for failing to hustle on a ground ball but he rebounded from that to play very well.  It’s really the response you would have wanted if you were Alex Cora or just a Red Sox fan.

Cy Young/Rookie of the Year - Brayan Bello - Listen, James Paxton has been masterful but hoo boy has Bello been special.  I don’t think I’m being an unreasonable homer when I say the present and the future are very bright with this talented youngster.

Mariano Rivera - Chris Martin - Kenley Jansen gets the glory of the saves and the All Star Game, Josh Winckowski gets the “where did he come from” buzz but it’s Martin who has been the rock.  A 1.57 ERA in 30 appearances and only three free passes.  Chaim Bloom can be rightly criticized for a number of things but it is to his credit that he aggressively addressed the 2022 club’s biggest flaw with Martin and Jansen.

Best Surprise - Jarren Duran - Did you see this coming? Yeah neither did I.  He has suddenly turned into a legitimate piece of the puzzle going forward.

Biggest Disappointment - Corey Kluber - There were a few options here but for me it’s Kluber.  I think heading into the season it would have been more than reasonable to expect him to replicate the work of Michael Wacha last year but holy hell has he been horrendous.  His control has abandoned him and he’s giving up home runs at an epic rate.  This is not a combination for success.

Most Underrated Story - Masataka Yoshida is actually good - The Sox regular cleanup hitter is not exactly an afterthought but it seems to be a bit of an under the radar thing.  The Sox were roundly criticized in more than a few corners for spending like they did on Yoshida.  78 games into his Major League career that is looking like a steal of a deal.  At current rates a 5 year, $15/per year deal for a 3+ WAR outfielder is highway robbery.

Games of the Year (so far);

April 1 - Bal 8 - Bos 9 - After a disappointing Opening Day loss the Sox were in a 7-1 hole after 2 1/2 innings.  They rallied but as with the Opener it looked like it would come short when Masa Yoshida’s fly ball settled into Ryan McKenna’s glove.  McKenna closed that glove a bit too early keeping the game alive and Adam Duvall slammed one into the Monster seats.  Those first two games kind of set the tone for a team that has battled all year.

April 23 - Bos 12 - Milw 8 - The Sox trailed the Crew 4-3 headed to the top of the 8th.  Justin Turner and Yoshida went back to back for a 5-4 lead and the rest of the inning featured more hits than a Taylor Swift album capped by Yoshida’s grand slam.

April 29 - Cle 7 - Bos 8 - Blowing a 6-1 lead late was frustrating and going behind in the top of the 10th was irritating.  Christian Arroyo singled home Manfred Man Enmanuel Valdez and after a sac bunt and a passed ball Verdugo singled to end it.

May 1 - Tor 5 - Bos 6 - The AL East in general and the Blue Jays in particular were a bugaboo in 22 (ooh that rhymes).  The clubs went back and forth with an E6 proving costly for the Sox in the Toronto 8th.  Dugie led off the bottom of the ninth against Jordan Romano and…kaboom.

June 9 Bos 3 - NYY 2 - Fear no one.  The Sox haven’t been pushed around by good teams as they were in 2022 and few games sum that up like this one.  Undefeated Gerrit Cole in the Bronx? No problem.  Cole was good but Garrett Whitlock was better.  Kenley Jansen secured the save (thanks to Volpe’s rocket going juuuuust foul) and the Sox had another big win.

July 2 - Boston 5 - Tor 4 - One of the frustrating aspects of this Sox team is that it often feels like we know the result before the game.  Bello, Paxton or Houck pitching? Hey this should be fun.  Someone else pitching?  Uh oh.  Whitlock got the call in this one but only pitched one inning.  The Sox needed the back of the bullpen to pick things up.  Brennan Bernardino, Kaleb Ort, Nick Pivetta, Chris Martin and finally Joe Jacques worked the final eight innings.  Meanwhile the Sox scored twice in the seventh thanks in part to some daring base running from Justin Turner that evoked Jonny Gomes scoring from second on Opening Day in the Bronx.  The game was tied at 4 going to the ninth, Romano vs. Verdugo again.  Rinse, lather, re-kaboom.

Big Second Half Questions

1. How will Chaim Bloom approach the trade deadling?

2. Does Trevor Story have anything to offer?

3. Can Duran, Connor Wong and Triston Casas solidify themselves as everyday players moving forward?

Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: July 10, 2023 at 03:38 PM | 81 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   1. dirk Posted: July 10, 2023 at 04:42 PM (#6136661)
i'm pretty bearish on story, i just don't see a lot of promise for 30+ middle infielders who showed decline in their late 20's. tulo was out of baseball by 34, and no longer a contributor at 32, and had a better command of the strike zone, which usually helps extend careers. through this lens, k. hernandez's performance makes a lot of sense too.
   2. pikepredator Posted: July 11, 2023 at 01:07 PM (#6136744)
I'm glad you put bullet point 3 last because that is the most fun one to think about. I am not expecting Bloom to do anything terribly interesting, but I also don't expect him to give much away. I'm fine with that.

Agreed w/Dirk on Story - he was good at one time but may have fallen off the proverbial cliff.

But the kids . . . man, they are fun to watch! Great players to root for, give the fans that something extra in terms of energy and excitement. Apparently it was a bit controversial but I love the Casas post-walk scream after that (14?) pitch AB.

Yoshida has been a revelation for sure and seems to be getting better as opposed to pitchers figuring out how to pitch him. If he's the Red Sox version of Hideki Matsui, fantastic.

I also think the longer deployment of relievers - not just pivetta but the 2 IP stints by Winckowski et al - are an important development.

Side note: I just noticed how close the Sox/Yanks/Jays/O's are in run differential. Curious. And another positive sign!
   3. Darren Posted: July 11, 2023 at 04:36 PM (#6136753)
1. How will Chaim Bloom approach the trade deadling?

I'm hoping he'll be wheedling and deadling! :) Seriously, I want to see what he can do to add a starter to the top half of the rotation and make a run at a playoff spot.

2. Does Trevor Story have anything to offer?

Yes, I think. Maybe. I hope so. He was good last year in the time he played but his recovery is a mystery.

3. Can Duran, Connor Wong and Triston Casas solidify themselves as everyday players moving forward?

I feel good about Duran and Wong at least being contributors. Duran is likely an average player or maybe a bit better and Wong looks at least like an okay to slightly below half of a catching tandem. I like Casas too and his steady improvement after his tough start has been encouraging. But as of now, he's got 386 PAs in the Majors and -0.2 WAR, thanks in part to pretty ugly defense. I feel pretty confident he'll be an averagish player in the long run, but those numbers temper my enthusiasm.
   4. Darren Posted: July 11, 2023 at 04:44 PM (#6136754)
Moving this over here as it seems like the appropriate place:

79.5 Wins - OVER. Mid-80s, in contention for a Wild Card.
14.5 Sale starts - OVER. He heads into the year healthy so what could possibly go wrong?
24.5 Casas HR - OVER. Tough one. I think he is going to swing for the fences a bit more and, if he stays healthy all year, that gets him into the high 20s at least.
3.0 Verdugo WAR - OVER. Another close call. He's a good hitter and appears to have readjusted his approach to fit his strengths.
Turner/Duvall more HR - Duvall. I'm assuming he gets 400+ PA.
19.5 Whitlock starts - OVER??? I added a couple question marks. I think they will give him as much chance as possible to stick in the rotation, but usage, effectiveness in longer outings, and health are all question marks.
44.5 Devers doubles - UNDER. Very close. I think he'll have an excellent year but right around 40 doubles.
94.5 Devers walks - UNDER. The rest of the lineup isn't bad enough to push his walk total this high.
Marcelo Mayer MLB debut - September 23, 2023. One day after VI's guess so that if he debuts any time after that, I am righter than him. (Yes, I watch the Price Is Right, why?)
49.5 Rafaela prospect ranking - NA. Cannot be ranked because he will have used up his eligibility on the second half, playing an amazing CF for the big club.
Bonus:.300 Masataka Yoshida batting average -- OVER. Both ZIPS (.305) and Steamer (.299) project him to have the highest batting average in the AL. I like him.



A very mixed bag. Wins are looking good, as are Verdugo's WAR, Devers walks and 2Bs, and Yoshida's BA. The two that are really up in the air right now are Whitlock and Sale. I could see both or neither reaching those numbers.
   5. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: July 12, 2023 at 06:13 PM (#6136891)
Verdugo has been good, and I like him, but Devers and Yoshida are better and are more important to the lineup. They have to be pitched to much more carefully than Verdugo requires.
   6. Darren Posted: July 13, 2023 at 11:08 AM (#6136940)
Verdugo's been considerably better than both Devers and Yoshida this year and he's a great choice for first halfish MVP. Going forward, I'd expect Devers to be better and Yoshida about equal to Verdugo.

I've been thinking about Verdugo and Devers a bit lately. Last offseason, Verdugo was called out publicly by Cora for his conditioning and his play, which he responded to by showing up in better shape, hustling more, playing better D, and having a better approach. He then got pulled and benched for not hustling. Meanwhile, Devers has always struggled with his conditioning (which seemed to catch up with him last year), occasionally doesn't hustle, and has made some notable and costly mental mistakes. The team rewards him with the biggest contract in team history and not a bad word is said about him.

I know, it's about the talent and that's why he got the big deal. But I am surprised that Cora hasn't challenged him a bit more.
   7. Jay Seaver Posted: July 13, 2023 at 01:29 PM (#6136960)
I half-suspect Cora may figure a public call-out might be counter-productive with Devers. Given how he does centering exercises and the like at the plate and runs emotionally hot, it doesn't seem like that sort of pressure would help. Part of a manager's job (arguably the most important part these days) is managing different personalities, and Devers certainly seems to have a different personality at times(*). Hopefully Cora can figure out what's not working this year and help.

(*) I've got acquaintances who will jump on any sign of something like this to speculate that Devers is neuro-divergent, and there would be a weird irony if a MLB player who could actually benefit from ADHD medication was not taking it. Mostly, though, I'm figuring some guys will just get worse when criticized in public by someone they trust, which seems much more likely than the old cliché of players who "just can't handle New York/Boston/etc."
   8. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: July 13, 2023 at 01:32 PM (#6136961)
Darren - I think you might be guilty of expecting too much out of Casas. The average first baseman has a .762 OPS, Casas since 5/1 is at .794. I know I know, selective endpoints, but I think he is progressing in a manner you'd want to see from a highly rated prospect. I think it's reasonable that a player like Casas is growing into his role and place in the league.

Just for the hell of it I compared him to Anthony Rizzo (a player I think is probably a good analogue of what I expect Casas to be). Rizzo's stats;

2011 - 49 games - .523 OPS/51 OPS+
2012 - 87 games - .805 OPS/116 OPS+

And Casas;

2022-4/30/23 - 52 games - .576 OPS
5/1/23-present - 53 games - .794 OPS (eyeballing probably about 107 OPS+)

There are areas I'd like to see some improvement but I think he's doing what we'd want. Again using that 5/1 cutoff the first basemen with a better OPS than him are; Freeman, Olson, Belt, Yandy Diaz, Arraez and Goldschmidt. FWIW I use that May 1 cutoff in part because it supports my argument but also because after dropping to a .133 average he got a couple days off. Alex Cora has done this with others, JBJ particularly, where a couple of days off has triggered a prolonged stretch of success. I don't know if it's working things out in the cage or just a mental thing or just random timing but it's happened. I think Casas is doing just fine. Is he a star? No but he is and will continue to be good to very good.
   9. Darren Posted: July 13, 2023 at 05:54 PM (#6136994)
All good points, Jay. I'm just trying to see it from Verdugo's perspective. Must be tough. Also hard to see two guys who were in great shape and were locked in walk and then have the guy who struggles with conditioning and focus locked up.
   10. Darren Posted: July 13, 2023 at 06:08 PM (#6136995)
@Jose, I don't love splitting on 5/1, days off or no. And even when you do that, a .794 OPS is fine, but it's nothing to get excited about. Per FGs, that's a 117 wRC+ and during that period, he had 0.3 WAR in 199 PA. So if we arbitrarily lop off the first month of the season and just include his best 2.5 months, Casas has been a 1 WAR player. That's not encouraging.

If we instead include all of his games, he's:

career: 386 PA, 104 wRC+, 0.1 WAR
2023: 291 PA, 99 wRC+, -0.2 WAR

I think Casas is doing just fine. Is he a star? No but he is and will continue to be good to very good.


He isn't currently good. He's currently below average. He has to improve over what he's been doing since 5/1 to be even average. I am confident he'll be able to improve that much. I think that's completely fair.

Are you confident he'll be in Anthony Rizzo's class as a player?

   11. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: July 13, 2023 at 07:18 PM (#6137000)
If Verdugo puts up a 3 WAR season, that makes him a 20m player. Any team that gives him 5/100M is dumb. He's a nice player but not one you should make that much of an investment in.
   12. Darren Posted: July 17, 2023 at 05:50 PM (#6137327)
Maybe I was wrong about Casas? :)
   13. Darren Posted: July 19, 2023 at 11:15 AM (#6137440)
Casas again dropped an easy throw last night. Not sure if it's a concentration thing but oof.
   14. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: July 19, 2023 at 02:11 PM (#6137447)
On Casas: It is too early (obviously) to say that he'll be, say, a perennial All Star candidate at 1B or something, but it is increasingly clear that the kid is going to be an above average hitter with above-average power and excellent on base skills. His defense and baserunning are currently below-average, but he's young: He'll probably improve enough as a first basemen in the next season or two to be at least an average glove there.

If I were the team, I would definitely approach him about a Braves-like extension that buys out arbitration years and a few free agency years. Since May 3rd, his line is: 212 PAs, 9 HRs, .281/.368/.497. His BABIP is .336, but it was so low the first month of the season that it is still only .286 for the season. He can hit, he's made adjustments, and I am comfortable saying that I think we've found our first baseman for the next half dozen or more years.

I don't know if we'll be in the playoff hunt for the duration of the season, but I know this: Whenever you have a season where you are winning more than half your games while also:

- identifying your 23-year-old 1B as a legit long-term answer
- establishing your 24-year-old prospect as a legit frontline starting pitcher
- hitting on your only long-term free agent signing in several years (Yoshida)
- locking down your franchise centerpiece (Devers) for effectively the rest of his career at the age of 26
- watching your potential franchise SS continue to move up the farm system at the age of 20 to AA

then it is a pretty successful season for the long-term. Other guys, like Crawford, Duran, Wong, Murphy, and Winckowski, are fitting nicely into complimentary roles that suggest they can also be pieces of a long-term, successful franchise rebuild. I wish Whitlock and Houck could stay on the field, but in terms of trying not to sacrifice the future while finding ways to be competitive right now, Bloom and his team deserve credit.
   15. villageidiom Posted: July 19, 2023 at 04:04 PM (#6137457)
His defense and baserunning are currently below-average, but he's young: He'll probably improve enough as a first basemen in the next season or two to be at least an average glove there.
I don't know that dropping easy throws is something he will grow out of. It's a fundamental aspect of defense, and if he's repeating a lack of skill at age 23 that he should have mastered at age 13 then I don't know how many more years it should take for him to learn. And those are the obvious bad catches! The rest of his bad catches are showing up as E6 or whatever.

Keep in mind that I'm not saying he won't improve, nor that they shouldn't lock him up for a few years. I'm just saying if they lock him up they should be paying him for who they reasonably expect he will be as a hitter and assume he will be defensively who he is right now.
   16. Darren Posted: July 19, 2023 at 04:41 PM (#6137461)
If I were the team, I would definitely approach him about a Braves-like extension that buys out arbitration years and a few free agency years.


What's the rush? He's not going to be Super 2 and he's not winning rookie of the year, so he's not going to be making real money until for another couple years. Sure, if you can get him to sign an Albies-esque deal, go for it. But other than that, let's see how the rest of the year goes at least.
   17. Darren Posted: July 19, 2023 at 04:45 PM (#6137462)
- locking down your franchise centerpiece (Devers) for effectively the rest of his career at the age of 26


Even better, he's locked up a couple years past the end of his career!
   18. Darren Posted: July 19, 2023 at 04:52 PM (#6137463)
I don't know that dropping easy throws is something he will grow out of. It's a fundamental aspect of defense, and if he's repeating a lack of skill at age 23 that he should have mastered at age 13 then I don't know how many more years it should take for him to learn. And those are the obvious bad catches! The rest of his bad catches are showing up as E6 or whatever.


Yeah, that's why I think it's got to be concentration or something. There's no way he got this far without learning to catch the ball better than he has been.
   19. villageidiom Posted: July 19, 2023 at 10:43 PM (#6137481)
Yeah, that's why I think it's got to be concentration or something. There's no way he got this far without learning to catch the ball better than he has been.
Mo Vaughn had an excellent career for someone who couldn't always catch a ball thrown to him.
   20. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: July 20, 2023 at 07:41 PM (#6137491)
Youkilis described the play properly. Casas needed to let the ball get to him, rather than trying to scoop it. You scoop it on the short hops, and let the long and/or in between hops get to you, because the ball always beats the runner, and scooping is only an easy play on short hops. Anyone can scoop a short hop. Short hops were my favorite ground balls to field at third. You just put your glove down directly behind (or in front, depending on who's looking) where the ball is going to land, and it goes in your glove 100% of the time. He just misjudged the hop and panicked.
   21. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: July 21, 2023 at 09:11 PM (#6137503)
Posting this here, because it's the latest thread, all this willy-nilly, three threads going at once is confusing me.

I was poking around on BREF and noticed the Sox are actually quite old. Second oldest pitching staff in MLB, and not that far off with fielders. That sort of frustrates me. Guess I just see it as a microcosm of what is 'wrong' with the team. Don't get me wrong, they have exceeded my expectations by far, and are pretty enjoyable to follow, but I am still dissatisfied. I want them to go on a losing streak and wake up and realize this is not a playoff team. I want any and all short term players to be traded for whatever they can get. Kike Hernandez? Fire into the sun. Duvall? Trade for *anything*. Paxton? Trade for *something*. Jansen, Martin, trade, trade. There is a good core to the team now, I do see that, but it's just not enough to actually compete this year or next. They do have some good pitching prospects, but they lose Paxton after this year, and they lose Sale after next. Unless the team is suddenly going to open its check book, those are some serious holes to try and fill with prospects. Jansen and Martin are also gone after next year, not nearly as much of an issue, but something to be addressed.

And for ##### sake, Trevor Story better come back and play 2B not SS. Only the pathetic A's are worse at 2B. Just put him there, plug one giant hole, go from literally the 2nd worst in MLB to above average, and then try and fix SS. Don't try and get cute and put him at SS and go from shitty to passable.
   22. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: July 22, 2023 at 10:07 AM (#6137510)
21 agreed, and because most of their aging players won't be around for the next good Red Sox team, I think they're gonna trade away a bunch of them in the next week.


Also, I have to remind the group that a long time ago I said Kike was not an everyday player. He's an adequate CF, but barely, and they need a better bat SOMEWHERE, so Duvall made Kike unnecessary there.
   23. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: July 22, 2023 at 05:34 PM (#6137511)
I would be surprised if they were buyers. If they don't trade their veterans that are having decent years (Paxton, Turner, Duvall..eh, he has SOME value..the 30+ yo relievers), if they can't resign them cheap they can just let them walk and free up salary. There are 4 teams ahead of them in the WC hunt. It makes no sense to try to catch 3 of them, just to get smoked and exited early.
   24. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: July 25, 2023 at 05:33 PM (#6137541)
And there goes Kikè. Or is it Kiké?
   25. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: July 25, 2023 at 07:58 PM (#6137543)
And there goes Kikè. Or is it Kiké?


Nice! Now do the rest!

Is BBTF officially dead? Or is it the security thing that's scaring folks away?
   26. villageidiom Posted: July 26, 2023 at 08:37 PM (#6137557)
It's the security thing, plus the lack of action on the security thing.
   27. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: July 27, 2023 at 04:56 PM (#6137568)
I just got in without the security warning, so maybe BBTF isn't quite dead yet although it may or may not be stone dead in a moment.
   28. Darren Posted: July 27, 2023 at 04:56 PM (#6137569)
I would once again like to apologize for my lack of faith in the great Casas.
   29. Nasty Nate Posted: July 27, 2023 at 05:06 PM (#6137570)
If the site dies, let me say it's been a pleasure to have Sox Therapized with you folks all these years
   30. Nasty Nate Posted: July 27, 2023 at 05:07 PM (#6137571)
If the site dies, let me say it's been a pleasure to have Sox Therapized with you folks all these years.
   31. Nasty Nate Posted: July 27, 2023 at 05:08 PM (#6137572)
Double the pleasure, in fact!
   32. dave h Posted: July 27, 2023 at 06:01 PM (#6137573)
I just want to tell you both good luck, we're all counting on you.
   33. Nasty Nate Posted: July 27, 2023 at 06:03 PM (#6137574)
I'm seeing double here - four Sox Therapies!
   34. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: July 27, 2023 at 06:58 PM (#6137577)
The security thing is the issue and the site is dying a slow death with no one looking after it. Probs time to move on for me....
   35. Benji Gil Gamesh VII - The Opt-Out Awakens Posted: July 27, 2023 at 07:12 PM (#6137578)
isn't quite dead yet although it may or may not be stone dead in a moment.
It doesn't want to go on the cart! It feels happy!
   36. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: July 27, 2023 at 09:25 PM (#6137593)
As long as Darren keeps dissing Casas we’ll keep rolling because that is clearly working!
   37. Bad Fish Posted: July 27, 2023 at 09:28 PM (#6137594)
Oh god, I hope this site doesn't die. You folks are the most polite, sometimes eruditely funniest, informed group of internet people that exist.
   38. Darren Posted: July 28, 2023 at 10:31 AM (#6137620)
Casas is a bum!
   39. villageidiom Posted: July 28, 2023 at 10:58 AM (#6137621)
Oh god, I hope this site doesn't die. You folks are the most polite, sometimes eruditely funniest, informed group of internet people that exist.
And I'm here as well.
   40. Dillon Gee Escape Plan Posted: July 28, 2023 at 11:09 AM (#6137624)
I don't post on here much, but I've been checking the site regularly for the last 15 years. This site played a role in growing into a huge baseball fan and I thank you all.
   41. pikepredator Posted: July 28, 2023 at 12:48 PM (#6137629)
Is BBTF officially dead? Or is it the security thing that's scaring folks away?


Much like the Red Sox season, BBTF has life in it yet!!

Couple of great games against the Barves. Here's to hoping they can navigate the bizarre travel and game schedule of late July before returning for a long and winnable homestand.

There is help on the horizon, too. August is usually the dog days of summer but as the heat and humidity in NE appears poised to break and reinforcements are on the way, I'm excited for what is to come!

I know I don't post much here but I appreciate those who do. Generlaly I enjoy a slower-paced forum as I just don't have the personal time to follow and stay current with fast-moving threads. This place is my speed and I appreciate y'all.
   42. pikepredator Posted: July 28, 2023 at 01:03 PM (#6137630)
Is BBTF officially dead? Or is it the security thing that's scaring folks away?


Much like the Red Sox season, BBTF has life in it yet!!

Couple of great games against the Barves. Here's to hoping they can navigate the bizarre travel and game schedule of late July before returning for a long and winnable homestand.

There is help on the horizon, too. August is usually the dog days of summer but as the heat and humidity in NE appears poised to break and reinforcements are on the way, I'm excited for what is to come!

I know I don't post much here but I appreciate those who do. Generlaly I enjoy a slower-paced forum as I just don't have the personal time to follow and stay current with fast-moving threads. This place is my speed and I appreciate y'all.
   43. pikepredator Posted: July 28, 2023 at 03:38 PM (#6137635)
Whoops looks like I pulled a Nasty Nate. The "your message is too large" error message was too much for my peabrain.
   44. The Mighty Quintana Posted: July 29, 2023 at 02:37 PM (#6137677)
We're back! At first, I thought, eh, Casas was kinda like Lars Anderson. Just too passive and selective.... Then, OK, he might be like Erubiel Durazo with some confidence. And now I'm thinking Mark Teixeira/Adrian Gonzalez!!
   45. The Mighty Quintana Posted: July 29, 2023 at 02:37 PM (#6137678)
   46. The Mighty Quintana Posted: July 29, 2023 at 02:38 PM (#6137679)
   47. The Mighty Quintana Posted: July 29, 2023 at 02:38 PM (#6137680)
   48. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: July 29, 2023 at 08:14 PM (#6137691)
Noah Song DFAd by Phillies. Now up to some team to pick him up and keep him on the roster the rest of the year.
   49. dave h Posted: July 30, 2023 at 11:21 AM (#6137729)
I just want to tell you both good luck, we're all counting on you.
   50. The Mighty Quintana Posted: July 31, 2023 at 04:21 PM (#6137770)
Verdugo looks crappy again. Needs to remove the 10 lb chain...
   51. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: July 31, 2023 at 07:58 PM (#6137786)
Verdugo looks crappy again.


I read somewhere about him prattling about the team not reaching out to discuss an extension. I could be way off the mark, but there seems to be an attitude problem at times with this guy. He's got talent enough to be a solid, 3WAR player, but just seems to lose focus at times, or something.

Those 2 narrow loses to SF were tough. The team was really rolling, and I know you'll drop close ones to good teams away, but a real shame they couldn't hold on in either of those.
   52. The Mighty Quintana Posted: August 01, 2023 at 12:04 PM (#6137818)
SF looks beatable, and yet teams can never put them away. They get guys nobody wants, and then make them 20% better. Kapler is a pretty good manager.
   53. The Mighty Quintana Posted: August 01, 2023 at 01:37 PM (#6137822)
Cal Raleigh is generally pretty crappy....but against us he hits like Bill Dickey.
   54. Darren Posted: August 01, 2023 at 03:44 PM (#6137834)
I read somewhere about him prattling about the team not reaching out to discuss an extension. I could be way off the mark, but there seems to be an attitude problem at times with this guy. He's got talent enough to be a solid, 3WAR player, but just seems to lose focus at times, or something.


It's always hard to know from our perspective but I got the impression that with the rumors about him being dealt, reporters asked him about being extended. He did sound a bit disappointed about it, but again, hard to tell without being there. One thing seems clear: someone (or maybe multiple people) in the org does not like Verdugo.
   55. jingoist Posted: August 01, 2023 at 04:14 PM (#6137836)
Well, you Sox fans get to look down at the underwhelming play of the Yankees and gloat a bit.
Talk about futility: Oriole pitchers strike out 20 on Sunday night (a club record I believe) then 10 more pinstripes flail away last night, setting an all-time futility record.
Who can’t be thrilled with that!
   56. jingoist Posted: August 01, 2023 at 04:15 PM (#6137837)
Well, you Sox fans get to look down at the underwhelming play of the Yankees and gloat a bit.
Talk about futility: Oriole pitchers strike out 20 on Sunday night (a club record I believe) then 10 more pinstripes flail away last night, setting an all-time futility record.
Who can’t be thrilled with that!
   57. jingoist Posted: August 01, 2023 at 04:17 PM (#6137838)
I liked my post so much I inadvertently sent it a second time…..sorry kind readers.
   58. villageidiom Posted: August 01, 2023 at 10:24 PM (#6137874)
If anything you didn't post it enough times.
   59. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: August 02, 2023 at 10:05 AM (#6137899)
It's always hard to know from our perspective but I got the impression that with the rumors about him being dealt, reporters asked him about being extended. He did sound a bit disappointed about it, but again, hard to tell without being there. One thing seems clear: someone (or maybe multiple people) in the org does not like Verdugo.


I don't know if they don't like him but I think they are (correctly IMHO) viewing him as a player good enough to keep around while he's under club control but not worth spending big on. He's here for another year and for whatever reason he is much better defensively in right field than in left field. Yoshida-Duran-Verdugo works for me this year and next with someone to be a right handed caddy whether Duvall or someone similar.
   60. Darren Posted: August 03, 2023 at 01:56 PM (#6138004)
I wouldn't read a willingness to trade a player as an indication that they don't like him. I am also considering his benchings and repeatedly being called out for conditioning/hustling when others aren't. He seems to have turned it around a little now so that's nice.
   61. Darren Posted: August 03, 2023 at 02:13 PM (#6138006)
The Urias deal is interesting. I remember when he was a highly touted prospect that I was surprised was dealt to Milwaukee in the deal for Grisham and Davies. He's actually very much like Arroyo in some ways: a highly touted 2B included in a big trade and then suffered an injury (or injuries in Arroyo's case) that set him back. I'm wary of dealing with Milwaukee because of JBJ/Renfroe deal, but it looks like the guy the Sox gave up, Bradley Blaylock, would have been part of a 40 man crunch in the offseason. Seems like a good flyer.
   62. jmurph Posted: August 04, 2023 at 04:05 PM (#6138061)
Alex Speier @alexspeier
As you’ve likely seen, the Red Sox have called up Luis Urías and designated Christian Arroyo for assignment. Noah Song, taken in the Rule 5 draft by the Phillies, has also been returned to the Sox after going unclaimed.
   63. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: August 04, 2023 at 08:36 PM (#6138068)
I don't really have any complaints about the Sox deadline action, but I do think keeping Paxton was a mistake, unless there was some private negotiations going on. With the nebulousness of the team next year, someone else who is going for it is going to offer more in FA and the Sox will have nothing after rehabbing him.
   64. The Mighty Quintana Posted: August 06, 2023 at 12:30 PM (#6138179)
Still think Song can be a legit ML starter. Just gotta get the arm back in form after the Naval Air stint.
   65. Darren Posted: August 07, 2023 at 01:05 PM (#6138239)
Looks like I was finally right about something: there's more going on with Verdugo behind the scenes than we know about. It seems that he was completely worn out his welcome with Cora. It will be interesting to see how this plays out over the rest of the season and into the offseason.
   66. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: August 07, 2023 at 03:23 PM (#6138252)
Looks like I was finally right about something:


Not to toot my own horn, I'll just kindly remind everyone of this piece of prescience from 6 or so weeks ago.


And that aside - come on, removing one game from someone is not slicing and dicing splits. I am not picking 'the last 28 days' to suit my narrative, as adding in the 29th, 30th, and 31st days adds an 0-9 with no BB and 1 HBP to his line, but surely you knew that. Nor are his stats all different before and after the game, suggesting some huge fix that happened - his season before was .671, and after .673. That leads me to believe his true talent at the moment is probably closer to .670 than .750.


Guess which hitter with a .676 OPS this is about!
   67. Darren Posted: August 10, 2023 at 10:16 AM (#6138412)
I remember that I agreed with you. Remember? Yeah, no need to look back at the thread.

It's a bummer that Wong has fallen off. He can look so good sometimes, hitting the ball the opposite way for singles and occasionally crushing HR to left. Hopefully, can maintain this level or bump it up a bit as the season goes on.
   68. The Mighty Quintana Posted: August 16, 2023 at 12:30 PM (#6138837)
The site is back (for a year, at least). Well, last night's win was one that playoff teams win. That's right, we are going to be a playoff team. With a healthy Story and Sale (knocking on my wood desk), everything changes. We have a veteran bullpen, a legit defensive shortstop, good catching tandem, and 5 good starters. We have guys who work counts and get on base. And we have a young Mark Teixeira clone at first.
   69. pikepredator Posted: August 16, 2023 at 02:35 PM (#6138844)
agreed, Quinn. Young players, openers, and Nick F'ing Pivetta got us to this point in the season - a few games out of the WC - and now the reinforcements are here, with six weeks to make up a few games on an admittedly similarly strong Jays team.

Thinking back to 5 months ago . . . I had zero expectation that I would be excited for the WC race. Bring it on!!
   70. The Mighty Quintana Posted: August 16, 2023 at 09:40 PM (#6138880)
We close with two at home against Tampa, and then 4 at Baltimore. Youneverknow!
   71. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: August 17, 2023 at 03:23 PM (#6138918)
4 at Baltimore.



"it's over, it's always been over"
   72. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: August 19, 2023 at 08:43 AM (#6139042)
No matter what, it's always nice to beat the Yankees!
   73. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: August 19, 2023 at 07:04 PM (#6139063)
No matter what, it's always nice to beat the Yankees!
   74. villageidiom Posted: August 20, 2023 at 10:24 AM (#6139100)
See #58.
   75. pikepredator Posted: August 20, 2023 at 11:01 AM (#6139103)
Seconded!!
   76. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: August 20, 2023 at 01:13 PM (#6139106)
Guys, I'm really worried. Are Yankee Clapper and Jolly St. Nick OK? It's the weirdest thing, they haven't been posting in Sox Therapy like they sometimes do. I can't figure it out. I know when they post its often with genuine concerns about the Sox and not just concern trolling. I hope they are OK.
   77. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: August 20, 2023 at 09:30 PM (#6139127)
Jeez, you lot are a welcome sight. Was about to re-post my Yankees comment again and then lament the death of the site, but it lives on!

In all seriousness, as the site fades out, it's been a very welcome distraction over the past 15+ years. I wish you all the best, and hopefully this drags on for a few slower paced years.
   78. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: August 20, 2023 at 09:45 PM (#6139130)
#77, the issue with the site, as some of the more intense stats based guys lament is that it's no longer on the leading edge of analytics and has nothing further to offer.

Someone else opined though that's it's nice to just sit around on your metaphorical couch with a bunch of close mates you've know for a number of years and just chat about baseball in a thoughtful manner.
Which works great for me as I'm about the least sabermetricky poster here, but I like the company here and the posters, for the most part, seem like pretty decent people.

Also, the Sox just swept NY....again this year.
The next 10 games against the Astros and Dodgers will be tough, I don't have high hopes, but hey you never know.
As Jose points out, where is Clapper to tell us what the Red Sox are doing wrong?
   79. villageidiom Posted: August 21, 2023 at 10:29 AM (#6139149)
As Jose points out, where is Clapper to tell us what the Red Sox are doing wrong?
I'm sure YC has found other threads in which to tell other people what they're doing wrong.

That aside, let's give 'em all a break. There isn't enough interest in their chosen teams to sustain dialogue on this site, so they come here because occasionally we talk about their chosen teams. And we certainly don't have a monopoly on discourse about what the Red Sox are doing wrong. Those folks are part of the fabric here. We can certainly enjoy Boston sweeping New York, but fans of a 4th-place team throwing stones at fans of a 5th-place team just because we can isn't really the way to live. It especially isn't great when those particular fans are people who actually choose to hang here. Like, they could be elsewhere hanging out with people who think Paul O'Neill's number should be retired throughout MLB like Jackie Robinson, or whatever. Maybe they do that, too, but I think we all know they don't.

In the meantime, Boston has a brutal schedule over the next 9 days: 3 at Houston, 3 vs. the Dodgers, 3 more vs. Houston. Hold on to your stones.
   80. villageidiom Posted: August 21, 2023 at 11:11 AM (#6139151)
Correction: it's 10 days, and the first series is 4 at Houston.
   81. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: August 21, 2023 at 12:02 PM (#6139156)
#78 - Yeah, I've been following the discussion in the other thread. Analytics-wise I get it, there's not a whole lot of new action going on, but this community is probably the most informed baseball group out there, and we all have a rough understanding of each other's thinking and personal biases. I don't want to go to reddit and learn a whole new crowd of people, or read some silly aside that is so easily proven wrong it's not even worth the effort.

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