BBTF's Sox Therapy Discussion :: How Should Tito Manage the Slump?

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1. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: April 22, 2010 at 09:42 PM (#3511220)

Well, anything that will lead to more grand slams is worthy of consideration.

I'm not sure that playing David Ortiz achieves that goal, though. He is done.

2. OlePerfesser Posted: April 22, 2010 at 10:03 PM (#3511236)

All in favor of the kinds of tactical managing MCoA mentioned, esp. coping with the toastedness of certain hitters with platooning.

Also, I'd have a chat with Farrell about whether every pitcher should go to the slide-step.* We're throwing out 3% of the attempted base stealers, fer crissakes. I can believe Victor's hitting stats are going to rise, but I'm desperately worried that his arm just ain't going to get much better without help. Might be worth seeing if the pitchers can mitigate this baserunning problem without unduly damaging their efficiency against the guy at the plate.

*Qualifier: Since I'm not in NESN's viewing area, I have no idea whether most of the pitchers already use the slide-step. If they do and we're nevertheless throwing almost no one out, then I'm going to curl up in the fetal position and whimper for a while...

3. Darnell McDonald had a farm Posted: April 22, 2010 at 10:03 PM (#3511238)

It was cool to see Ortiz among the first to attack KY in celebration yesterday, but I'm not sure that skill is worth a roster space

4. Dale Sams Posted: April 22, 2010 at 10:22 PM (#3511251)

Well, the first step is to make sure the pitchers don't feel as if they have to win the game themselves. I mean...ignore the fact that you have two replacement level OF'ers (with two more to replace them on the bench should something go wrong!)* or that your catchers couldn't throw out Grandma Moses.

Just stay within yourself.

* And that JD Drew is standing out there thinking, "Have I ever actually appeared in 16 straight games?"

5. Joel W Posted: April 22, 2010 at 10:54 PM (#3511275)

We really need a pure catchers thread. Has anybody ever had a catching closer? I think the Red Sox need that save for the whole you lose a roster spot thing. They should at least do some work on throwing behind runners. Something.

6. Infinite Yost (Voxter)

Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:21 AM (#3511409)

It would be nice if they didn't back up their all-hit, no-throw starter with a no-hit, no throw caddy.

7. Darren

Posted: April 23, 2010 at 01:33 AM (#3511581)

You know what's aggressive--pulling your starter when he's cooked.

8. Jobu is silent on the changeup Posted: April 23, 2010 at 11:36 AM (#3511787)

How Should Tito Manage the Slump?

Better.

9. tfbg9 Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:52 PM (#3511817)

You know what's aggressive--pulling your starter when he's cooked.

I've taken the liberty of forwarding your email to Shanks, requesting that he forward it to Larry, and that Larry hand-deliever it to Theo.

I hear its a grueling interview. Better bone-up.

10. Lassus Posted: April 23, 2010 at 12:59 PM (#3511822)

It was cool to see Ortiz among the first to attack KY in celebration...

This sounds more like a vividly unpleasant and messy REM nightmare I'd rather not remember.

11. The Marksist Posted: April 23, 2010 at 03:03 PM (#3511936)

This sounds more like a vividly unpleasant and messy REM nightmare I'd rather not remember.

My first thought as well. Ick.

12. OlePerfesser Posted: April 23, 2010 at 03:06 PM (#3511937)

OK, this is not relevant to anything, but I ran across it in a recent Rosenthal column and it made me chuckle, even after another loss. (Apologies if you've seen/discussed it before.)

Mets infielder Alex Cora actually keeps a copy of former Red Sox teammate Dustin Pedroia’s book, “Born to Play: My Life in the Game,” in his locker.

Pedroia’s brashness is a source of amusement throughout baseball, and Cora flipped through the pages hurriedly to find me one particularly funny passage.

“I have something like 20-10 eyesight,” Pedroia writes. “All I know is that my eyesight is perfect. To be honest with you, I don’t read very well, even though I can see the words. My eyes are just made for hitting. They’re made to see fastballs coming in, but not to read a book.”

Cora said of the book, “I don’t use it for inspiration. I just want to laugh.”

13. Dale Sams Posted: April 23, 2010 at 08:02 PM (#3512262)

It was cool to see Ortiz among the first to attack KY in celebration...
This sounds more like a vividly unpleasant and messy REM nightmare I'd rather not remember.

Louisville was the first to fall.

14. Darren

Posted: April 23, 2010 at 10:27 PM (#3512361)

tfbg,

I know it offends your delicate sensibilities for me to comment on the manager's decisions, but this is a thread about the manager... and his decisions. There's plenty of other internets out there for you to explore if you'd rather not read such things.

15. Dale Sams Posted: April 23, 2010 at 10:52 PM (#3512368)

I know it offends your delicate sensibilities for me to comment on the manager's decisions, but this is a thread about the manager... and his decisions

Besides PRing for Victor Martinez in the 7th inning, I haven't had any objections.

I don't know if the letting starters get gassed refers to Buccholz (he actually still had good stuff) or Wakefield (Tito and Wake were all but giving up on the game to give the pen a break)

There should be a 'What is Theo going to do'. Because QUITE FRANKLY, not only are the Sox going to miss the playoffs this year...they're in big trouble for one or two more years. It's hard enough to buy your way out of problems. It's even more difficult when your richer big brother lives with you and has the pick of all the hot hookers.

16. Darren

Posted: April 24, 2010 at 01:18 AM (#3512581)

It was referring to the same game MCOA was talking about.

We can also talk about what Theo is going to do, of course. On that topic, I have a hard time agreeing with you. The Red Sox are set up to be good for the next few years.

17. Darren

Posted: April 24, 2010 at 01:21 AM (#3512590)

On the topic at hand, I was very happy to see Bard in the 6th tonight with the bases loaded. Now that's aggressive and productive.

The lineup, though, is sort of weird. Why move Pedroia out of #2 and put Drew there--not the natural place for either of their skill sets. Pedroia has gone in the tank since and Drew hasn't snapped out of his slump. I'd flop them.

18. tfbg9 Posted: April 24, 2010 at 03:12 AM (#3512770)

Dar':

Sorry, but I can no longer take your comments on Terry Francona seriously. You really do come across as a Walter Mitty guy who's actually sitting there typing/thinking how he'd do a better job than Tito.

19. Joel W Posted: April 24, 2010 at 04:49 PM (#3512945)

@Darren in 17:

I think the Red Sox believe that R/L/R maintenance is more important than lineup slot.

20. Darren

Posted: April 24, 2010 at 09:12 PM (#3513160)

Then ignore them Teddy. I now know that you don't take them seriously so there's no need to repeat the same lame joke every time.

@19,

They're choosing to go

R-L-R-R

instead of

R-R-L-R

Now, when you consider that the bottom of the lineup is often a lefty, then the second might be considered a better way to mix up the L/R thing.

21. Darren

Posted: April 24, 2010 at 09:14 PM (#3513164)

Also, to address Matt's main point, that's one way of looking at things. There's also the possibility that this sort of managing--making small moves for the sake of doing something--may come off as panic, and thereby serve to make players more uptight. That's one school of though on it anyways.

22. Darren

Posted: April 25, 2010 at 01:38 AM (#3513362)

Pedroia back in the 2-hole today. Yippee. Bill Hall playing RF? Yuck.

23. tfbg9 Posted: April 25, 2010 at 05:45 PM (#3513721)

20:
OK deal. But I think if you go back over your work, you'll see that you've made roughly 12 kajillion
anti-Tito cracks in a row. One gets the distinct idea that you think he's the worst manager in the AL.

And it's not the same lame joke. It's a series of brilliant variations on the same lame joke.
Speaking of which, Wakefield is pitching today.

Yuck.

PS: Put up Game Chatter?

24. karlmagnus Posted: April 25, 2010 at 09:09 PM (#3513840)

As usual the bullpen throws away a Wakefield win. Yuck! This team is worse than I thought. Tito's an OK manager and Theo is an OK GM, but they're both overrated and Theo long ago let the adulation go to his head. And last winter was NOT his best.

Trading Manny was the huge unforced error -- he could be putting up his 200 OPS+ for us, without his hamstrings being a problem, provided Tito could be persuaded to DH him.

25. Dan Posted: April 25, 2010 at 09:20 PM (#3513852)

Why the hell is Atchison pitching in the 10th inning of a tie game with at minimum Delcarmen available?

26. Dale Sams Posted: April 25, 2010 at 09:50 PM (#3513866)

Trading Manny was the huge unforced error -- he could be putting up his 200 OPS+ for us, without his hamstrings being a problem, provided Tito could be persuaded to DH him.

Dreamweeeeeeeaver....

And that 50 game suspension would have gone over great last year.

And Delcarmen was being saved for a save situation. It's called "The Timlin Theorem".

27. Fly is talking about film ####ing magic Posted: April 25, 2010 at 11:38 PM (#3513903)

To be fair to KM, he's absolutely right about trading Manny being a HUGE mistake. Manny is the greatest player of all time. So.

Maybe we can trade Papelbon for Manny? Or for anything at all?

28. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: April 25, 2010 at 11:41 PM (#3513904)

Maybe we can trade Papelbon for Manny? Or for anything at all?

Ramiro Pena and Grant Duff. Done deal.

29. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: April 25, 2010 at 11:43 PM (#3513905)

And Delcarmen was being saved for a save situation. It's called "The Timlin Theorem".

Sadly, not even that. Home game, extra innings, no save is possible. I'm guessing Atchison was used simply because he'd already warmed up once before, which is obviously insufficient cause. hopefully that's the end of Scott Atchison, reliever who pitches innings that matter.

Is teddy going to argue that Delcarmen is a Choka, and so this was justified?

30. Joel W Posted: April 26, 2010 at 03:03 AM (#3514107)

When our outfielders are healthy Hermida/Lowell would be a much better DH tandem than the one we've got right now.

31. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: April 26, 2010 at 04:17 AM (#3514138)

It would have been really sweet if Papi's bunt had stayed fair.

32. covelli chris p Posted: April 27, 2010 at 03:09 AM (#3515030)

isn't manny hurt right now?

33. Darren

Posted: April 27, 2010 at 03:39 AM (#3515049)

Manny saved us tonight. And Papelbon looked awesome. He's got people swinging and missing at the splitter again, which is great.

34. Phil Coorey. Posted: April 27, 2010 at 05:55 AM (#3515082)

Beckett looks great - starting rotation is on fire

35. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: April 27, 2010 at 02:36 PM (#3515239)

isn't manny hurt right now?

No clue. His velocity is down but he has been pretty effective so far (it's entirely possible the .036 BABIP won't stand up though). I watch him and wonder if he is hurt or if the Sox have taken the approach that says lose a little velocity for improved movement and command. PitchFx at Fangraphs doesn't show anything particularly definitive on the movement front.

36. Nasty Nate Posted: April 27, 2010 at 02:48 PM (#3515253)

erm, I think he was talking about Ramirez, who is hurt.

37. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: April 27, 2010 at 02:55 PM (#3515256)

Geez, what's it say about me that I read your response and thought "Ramon Ramirez is hurt?" before realizing that apparently Manny Ramirez is the person being discussed.

I'm not at my best, 4 hours of agonizing (though ultimately rewarding) baseball are not conducive to a good night's sleep.

38. SoSH U at work Posted: April 27, 2010 at 02:59 PM (#3515262)

Geez, what's it say about me that I read your response and thought "Ramon Ramirez is hurt?" before realizing that apparently Manny Ramirez is the person being discussed.

Well, when you've got already got one Manny, one Ramirez and a karlmagnus who must inject an unrelated Manny Ramirez into every discussion, your confusion is completely understandable.

39. Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: April 27, 2010 at 03:05 PM (#3515269)

Speaking of confusion, I think I've asked this before but what is Karl's deal? He IS a Red Sox fan right? Does he know Duquette personally or what? I realize I'm pretty over the top in my Theo/Tito worship, that's fine, but it's hard to understand a Red Sox fan disliking them as much as he does, you'd think two World Series titles, two other ALCS berths and six 95 win seasons would enable a bit of good faith. Did he enjoy 2004 and 2007? I've never met a Sox fan who said "yeah, I guess '04 and '07 were OK." It's confusing.

But again, I'm working on limited sleep.

40. SoSH U at work Posted: April 27, 2010 at 03:12 PM (#3515276)

Speaking of confusion, I think I've asked this before but what is Karl's deal? He IS a Red Sox fan right? Does he know Duquette personally or what? I realize I'm pretty over the top in my Theo/Tito worship, that's fine, but it's hard to understand a Red Sox fan disliking them as much as he does, you'd think two World Series titles, two other ALCS berths and six 95 win seasons would enable a bit of good faith. Did he enjoy 2004 and 2007? I've never met a Sox fan who said "yeah, I guess '04 and '07 were OK." It's confusing.

But again, I'm working on limited sleep.

You could be Rip Van Winkle himself and still not be able to comprehend the way the mind of a karlmagnus works, so don't beat yourself up.

41. tfbg9 Posted: April 27, 2010 at 09:06 PM (#3515698)

Is teddy going to argue that Delcarmen is a Choka

No. Because he doesn't always choke, and we know Scott always stinks. Perhaps MDC would have not choked, or rattled or whatever, and been successful. ;-)

42. Famous Original Joe C Posted: April 27, 2010 at 09:20 PM (#3515717)

Speaking of confusion, I think I've asked this before but what is Karl's deal?

He's either pulling everyone's chains, or he's slightly nuts. He makes/has made some very insightful posts over at the Hall of Merit, but as far as his contributions to ST, I think they are (IMO) generally better off ignored.

43. tfbg9 Posted: April 27, 2010 at 09:30 PM (#3515740)

but what is Karl's deal?

Karl and the Duke are one.

44. ptodd Posted: May 03, 2010 at 05:21 AM (#3520645)

Trading Manny was not the problem, not resigning Jason Bay was. Never believe UZR at Fenway for OF.

15 games is now 25 games, and things are even worse. There is some hope though, but not sure if it is real or not. JD and Papis bats showed signs of life, but against Oriole pitching. Will it hold true for better teams. The Angels fortunately have allowed almost as many runs as the Red Sopx and Orioles, and they will be playing at home, so may the good times continue.

45. Famous Original Joe C Posted: June 21, 2010 at 04:35 PM (#3565690)

15 games is now 25 games, and things are even worse.

Not picking on ptodd, but this is why you don't freak out over a bad start.

46. Nasty Nate Posted: June 21, 2010 at 04:49 PM (#3565712)

Not picking on ptodd, but this is why you don't freak out over a bad start.

I'm about a week away from posting the same thing on this year's version of the "Papelbon is done" thread...

47. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: June 21, 2010 at 04:49 PM (#3565713)

1 game out of first place and KM goes into hiding.

48. The Essex Snead Posted: June 21, 2010 at 05:01 PM (#3565728)

They should get ahead of their next slump and trade Buchholz for a veteran outfielder.

49. Joel W Posted: June 22, 2010 at 02:27 PM (#3566434)

1/2 game out of first place!

50. Answer Guy. Posted: June 22, 2010 at 02:33 PM (#3566451)

Not picking on ptodd, but this is why you don't freak out over a bad start.

Clearly they are better than I had thought they were a month ago, owing in large part to Clay Buchholz thusfar exceeding even the most optimistic projections I saw for him this season.

They're playing, IIRC, 21 of their next 30 away from home though. We'll see if they can handle good pitching (looks like they're going to hit Ubaldo Jimenez and Tim Lincecum, and then face the Rays at home after that) the way they've handled medicore or poor pitching they've mostly faced recently.

51. Famous Original Joe C Posted: June 22, 2010 at 02:42 PM (#3566471)

I'm about a week away from posting the same thing on this year's version of the "Papelbon is done" thread...

Heh. I was waiting for him to get his 21st save so I could cash in my bet with Fly.

52. Dale Sams Posted: June 22, 2010 at 03:34 PM (#3566541)

the way they've handled medicore or poor pitching they've mostly faced recently.

Pikers like Halladay, Shields, Garza, Grienke, Haren, Kuroda.

*Guess some of that depends on the definition of 'recently'

53. Joel W Posted: June 23, 2010 at 09:43 PM (#3568226)

So I saw the Fangraphs article on ESPN about the WAR all-stars, and much to my surprise, Marco Scutaro is the #1 AL shortstop in WAR. Adrian Beltre is tied for first among AL 3Bs. Kevin Youkilis is 2nd among AL first baseman. Pedroia is 2nd among AL 2nd baseman. Victor is 2nd among AL catchers.

How about that Red Sox infield?

54. Dan Posted: June 24, 2010 at 03:57 AM (#3568567)

I'm about a week away from posting the same thing on this year's version of the "Papelbon is done" thread...

Still got that post queued up, Nate?

55. Nasty Nate Posted: June 25, 2010 at 12:46 PM (#3570017)

Still got that post queued up, Nate?

I'm glad I showed some restraint...

56. Dan Posted: June 26, 2010 at 05:36 AM (#3571157)

And the Red Sox lose another game with Francona not pinch hitting for a platoon player. Darnell McDonald has no shot against a RHP with a slider, and there he is, batting against Brian Wilson with the bases loaded and 2 outs in the 9th, down by 1 run. JD Drew is supposedly healthy enough to start tomorrow, and is on deck to hit for the pitcher. Why in the world was Drew not put in to hit for McDonald instead of saved for a potential AB in the pitcher's spot? You NEED to extend the game there, and Drew is your shot to do that. Another shot at winning a game pissed away because Francona doesn't understand how to pinch hit for platoon players.

57. Darren

Posted: June 29, 2010 at 02:00 AM (#3573747)

That is a tough one to fathom. If you're going to use Drew, why not do so before the game is over, considering that any positive thing he could do would at least tie the game? Maybe they were dead set against getting stuck using him in the field that night?

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