Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Sox Therapy > Discussion
Sox Therapy
— Where Thinking Red Sox Fans Obsess about the Sox

Thursday, September 14, 2023

Over and Out

Well there’s one question answered for the off season as the Sox have let yet another General Manager go as they have fired Chaim Bloom.  This is not a particularly stunning turn of events, three last place finishes in four years is not going to have your bosses exactly enamored of your performance (well, if you are the A’s GM maybe).  Anyway, while this is big news I think it’s more interesting to look back briefly but then look forward.

And when I say look back I find myself looking (cue Jerry Trupiano voice) WAAAAAY back.  OK, maybe not that long but I immediately found myself thinking of Dan Duquette.  I think in many ways Bloom and Duquette’s tenures with the club have their similarities.  Both had some down years, both had shocking playoff runs (1999, 2021), both made controversial decisions to let franchise players go (Roger, Mookie) then instead of doing the expected and signing the newer blood (Mo, Xander) they tet them go too.  But most of all I think both guys suffered from a bit of Jeterism.  Both guys were probably judged to harshly by their critics and both probably defended too much by their fans.  Looking at Bloom I think we can say there are a number of positives;

- the farm system is in MUCH better shape today
- the financial situation is a lot better than it was (to be fair partially by the passage of time)
- the core of a potentially very good team is here

None of that is to say all is well and remain calm.  But I think that the job of whoever follows Chaim is a lot easier than the job Chaim had when he arrived.  The Mookie Betts trade and letting Xander walk are moves made by ownership pure and simple.  Yeah Bloom was the GM and the buck stops here but the fact is those moves only get made if ownership OKs it.  Chaim Bloom isn’t stupid, he knows damned well that a team with Mookie Betts is better than a team without him.  And frankly even IF Bloom is stupid and thinks that’s not true then it’s on ownership not to hire the guy who wants to trade Mookie Betts.  We can and have debated at length whether the Mookie trade was any good.  In one sense, no of course it wasn’t you never win that kind of a deal.  Having said that I think if Bloom landed two everyday MLB players (Alex Verdugo, Connor Wong)that’s probably about as good as you can do in that situation.  Again, it’s a bad trade but it’s about as good as you are going to get.  Similarly I think his performance with the draft has been awfully good.  Nick Yorke, Marcelo Mayer, Kyle Teel, Roman Anthony, Chase Meidroth, the Sox have loaded the position player element of the system pretty well.

I think if I were another team in the AL I’d be somewhat concerned.  The Sox have money to spend and they didn’t fire Bloom to bring in someone to run the club on a budget.  If they were going to do that they’d have kept Bloom and I think you can make a case for Bloom sticking around and at least getting one year of loosened purse strings to take a shot.

But I think this is the right call.  For me Chaim Bloom’s biggest flaw was his timidity.  I think his tenure really can be summed up by one deal.  In the 2021/22 off-season just moments before the lockout he traded Hunter Renfroe for Jackie Bradley Jr. and a couple of minor leaguers.  It was a pretty blah deal; trade high, build the system and bring back a known quantity.  However, that known quantity was one that had known flaws.  Had Bloom backstopped that with the 2022 version of Chris Young or Gabe Kapler or Jonny Gomes…great.  The idea that JBJ would hit .083 or whatever wasn’t THAT big a reach.  Instead there was no fall back.  And that’s not where the Sox are now.  This team is well situated to move forward.  There are holes to be sure but they are obvious 2B (or SS depending on where you put Story) and of course the rotation.  The Sox need to get a stud pitcher this winter and I don’t think Chaim Bloom is the guy for it.

In the end I think Bloom was set up to fail.  A team already fading, a directive to trade the greatest player in a generation and a lack of funds to replace him, that’s not a winning formula.  But he leaves having taken the bullet and hands the reins over with the Sox looking very much like they did after the 1997 season when Duquette was given the chance to build on what he had.  If the next GM can do what Duquette did from 1998-2002 I think we will be pretty happy.

Jose is an Absurd Sultan Posted: September 14, 2023 at 01:08 PM | 37 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Related News:

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Darren Posted: September 14, 2023 at 02:07 PM (#6141313)
The RF situation in 2022 and the SS situation in 2023 were the worst of Bloom. Dealing Renfroe and having replacement-level replacements was a big and ugly miss. Similarly, letting Bogaerts walk and not finding a SS of any kind left a big and unnecessary hole.

I'm fine with this decision and I would have been fine if they kept him. Jose points out what he Bloom did well and if they thought he needed another year to put it all together, that would have been alright. But if, knowing what they know about the machinations behind the scenes, they decided to let him go, I can't really argue.
   2. Darren Posted: September 14, 2023 at 02:15 PM (#6141317)
Crossposted from the main page thread: So do they now do the thing where they bring in a Dombrowski type to cash some of the prospects and build a winner?
   3. villageidiom Posted: September 14, 2023 at 02:57 PM (#6141324)
The RF situation in 2022 and the SS situation in 2023 were the worst of Bloom.
He hired Bogaerts' replacement a year before Bogaerts left. It wasn't Bloom's fault Story started his SS tenure injured. But I still agree that the SS situation in 2023 was not good, and that Bloom is to blame. Hernandez gave the team the Holt-like flexibility of "he can fill in at SS in an emergency", but that's very different from "he's our new starting SS until Story is back".

I don't know if I'm fine with the decision, because it depends on his successor. One might think a Dombrowski-like person would be good, but if he's worse at identifying which prospects to keep and which to trade, then they will empty the farm and lock down 3rd place in the AL East. In that case I'd rather have Bloom for another year.
   4. Darren Posted: September 14, 2023 at 03:18 PM (#6141327)
He hired Bogaerts' replacement a year before Bogaerts left. It wasn't Bloom's fault Story started his SS tenure injured. But I still agree that the SS situation in 2023 was not good, and that Bloom is to blame. Hernandez gave the team the Holt-like flexibility of "he can fill in at SS in an emergency", but that's very different from "he's our new starting SS until Story is back".


He did hire a guy with a known injury, who then missed a bunch of time due to an injury to the same body part. But even putting that aside, after it became apparent that Story was not going to be ready to play in 2023, he didn't find an adequate replacement.
   5. karlmagnus Posted: September 14, 2023 at 04:19 PM (#6141338)
Time to get Dan Duquette back and admit the last 22 years have all been a ghastly mistake!
   6. Darren Posted: September 15, 2023 at 10:49 AM (#6141420)
A lot of talk about Bloom being a scapegoat but I don't think that's quite right. It seems like he was tasked with cutting payroll somewhat, competing for the playoffs, and building the farm back up. Basically, do what you were helping to do in TB but with a bigger budget. He cut payroll and built the farm, but they weren't competing in MLB. It was a tough task but one he signed up for.
   7. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: September 15, 2023 at 12:01 PM (#6141427)
To Darren's point in #6, I think that's exactly what they told Bloom when he was hired: cut the payroll, rebuild the farm system, and remain sufficiently competitive while doing #1 and #2 that the fans feel like we're not doing a "tear down" or a "full rebuild".

1) The payroll is way down from the late 2010s. However, I think Bloom spent money in a "five dimes is the same as two quarters" kind of mentality. There have been a lot of short-term FA signings that were in the $6m+/yr range, but were rarely impact players. He spent $24m in 2023 for two relievers at the back of the bullpen. $10m on Hernandez. $10m on Kluber. $15m spread out for Turner. $16m for Jansen. $8.5m for Martin. $7m on Duvall. $4m for Paxton. $3m for Mondesi. $2m for Joely Rodriguez. And of course $27.5m for Sale.

2) The farm system is much improved. I would say most of the top 10 in the system were less about astute scouting, and more about having premium prospects drop in their lap and throwing money at others. Mayer, Teel, and Yorke are 1st round picks. Bleis was a huge international money signing. A few others were 2nd round picks paid well over slot to convince them to skip college (which is why they were even available in the 2nd round). I mean, Bloom doesn't really get credit for "nailing" the Teel pick, any more than Belichick should get major credit for "nailing" the Christian Gonzalez pick. Both were top 10 guys who fell to them, and everyone knew once those players got to those teams, it was going to be the pick. (Belichick does get credit for having Gonzalez fall into their lap, but knowing the next few teams weren't going to draft him, he fell back three slots and got another draft pick!)

3) The product on the field, with the exception of 2021, when almost everything that could've gone right did, has been pretty uninteresting and irrelevant. There were tickets this week for the Yankees at Fenway on sale for...one dollar. It would have been unimaginable from the mid 90s until a few years ago to have chunks of empty seats on a beautiful late summer day at Fenway against the Yankees. But here we are. I think some of this is the Betts thing continuing to impact the franchise. You've got $12m to pay JBJ? $10 for Kluber? $10m for Garrett Richards? $16m for Jansen? $20m for Story? $27.5m for Sale? $18m to not even have Price on the roster? But you didn't have money left to give Betts a 10/$350 deal in 2019? C'mon.

You know the moment I decided that firing Bloom was the right move? Yesterday, I heard from two reliable Boston media sources that publicly said a team last year had offered to take the last two years of Sale's contract - all $55m of it - in exchange for a modest return of prospects. Bloom said no - he demanded more talent in return. If a team is willing to pay Chris Sale and take his salary, you drive Sale to the ####### airport and accept a Panera gift card in return. Sale has been the highest-paid guy on the team since 2020. Next year, he'll be tied with Devers for the highest salary. You get a chance to unload that, you do it. Because Chris Sale has nothing to do with any of the three missions Bloom had. I wish him well, but that report, if true, is a fireable offense.
   8. Darren Posted: September 15, 2023 at 12:34 PM (#6141432)
You know the moment I decided that firing Bloom was the right move? Yesterday, I heard from two reliable Boston media sources that publicly said a team last year had offered to take the last two years of Sale's contract - all $55m of it - in exchange for a modest return of prospects. Bloom said no - he demanded more talent in return. If a team is willing to pay Chris Sale and take his salary, you drive Sale to the ####### airport and accept a Panera gift card in return.


Yeah, but they were offering a Taco Bell gift card. :)

More seriously, so that offer for Sale came during 2022? Was it at the deadline or another time? I'd love to know whatever details are out there and who reported it.
   9. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 15, 2023 at 01:59 PM (#6141454)
You've got $12m to pay JBJ? $10 for Kluber? $10m for Garrett Richards? $16m for Jansen? $20m for Story? $27.5m for Sale? $18m to not even have Price on the roster? But you didn't have money left to give Betts a 10/$350 deal in 2019? C'mon.
It seems like the bright boys must have decided that investing ~350M in any one player was just too much risk. Otherwise it doesn’t make sense. It also seems wrong - long career, one team 1st ballot Hall of Fame types (which Betts looks like) are money makers for MLB franchises.
   10. villageidiom Posted: September 15, 2023 at 04:55 PM (#6141477)
Chris Sale had 10/5 rights after 2021. It wouldn't entirely have been up to Bloom, assuming any part of the rumor is true.
It seems like the bright boys must have decided that investing ~350M in any one player was just too much risk. Otherwise it doesn’t make sense.
So you're on the record that investing $350m in any one player is just too much risk?
   11. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 15, 2023 at 05:00 PM (#6141479)
So you're on the record that investing $350m in any one player is just too much risk?
Did you not read the 3rd sentence of #9, where I pretty clearly indicated I disagreed with that stance? I was merely suggesting what the Red Sox ownership might have thought to justify, in their minds, trading Betts.
   12. villageidiom Posted: September 15, 2023 at 05:39 PM (#6141486)
I thought you were carving an exception for 1st ballot Hall of Fame types (or Betts specifically) because the financial benefits offset the costs.
   13. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 15, 2023 at 06:35 PM (#6141491)
Well, there may be a few other types of players with a fair market value of ~ $350M but the overlap is considerable, unless inflation remains a problem for awhile.
   14. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: September 16, 2023 at 10:26 AM (#6141532)
In today's Boston Globe, the excellent Alex Speier writes:

According to a major league source, at the 2022 trade deadline, the Rangers were willing to take all but $14 million of Chris Sale’s remaining contract while also sending two prospects to Boston, but the talks died.


Later, he writes:

Perhaps most notably, according to major league sources, the Sox were deep in talks with the Marlins on the day of the deadline about a deal that would have sent Justin Turner to Miami for Edward Cabrera — a 25-year-old righthanded starter with a potentially dominant fastball — and more.

The Sox also had deals on the table for James Paxton — multiple industry officials said they could have acquired major league-ready pitching, perhaps with the ceiling of a back-end starter, despite the injury risks involving the lefthander — and Kenley Jansen.


All four of these are absolute no-brainers to me, and were at the time (not revisionist history).

Turner is on effectively a one-year deal, and the team wasn't going anywhere. In fact, the Red Sox will now have to pay Turner a $6.7m buyout when Turner declines the 2nd year of the deal.

And Jansen? He has been sneaky-ineffective this year: Since the trade deadline, he has pitched a total of 10.1 innings, with a 5.23 ERA. I wasn't a big fan of the signing at the time, because giving 2/$32 to a 35-year-old closer when the team is clearly not ready to contend for the WS is kind of silly. The fact a team was willing to take him on, and get out from under his $16m next year? What was Bloom thinking?

The Sale trade information is the worst. At the 2022 deadline, Sale had about $60m left on his contract. The idea that the team could save $46m and get a few prospects is amazing.

All of this reminds me of two trades from a decade ago, both of which were critical to the team's success later on:

1) The Nick Punto trade - Crawford, Beckett and Adrian Gonzalez for a few B-level pitching prospects remains one of the best trades the team has made in my lifetime. It was bold, because it acknowledged how awful the Crawford signing was, as well as the fear that AGon was never the same after the All-Star break the year before. And Beckett was cooked. When you are wearing a concrete vest in the middle of the ocean, and somebody offers to take it off your hands because they think it might have some value...you take the deal!

2) The Andrew Miller trade - We got Eduardo Rodriguez, who was a legitimate prospect and ended up having a real career, for two months of Miller. We were going nowhere, and Miller had gone from a failed starter to a stunning reliever. It was a great job of the team figuring out how a struggling player could actually be very useful in a reimagined role, and then they got a quality young player straight up. For every one ERod acquisition, there are five that end up being Hudson Potts or Franchy Cordero or whatever...but that's fine. If you are looking for guarantees, you'll never make a trade. And that's where Bloom seemed to be too often.
   15. Darren Posted: September 16, 2023 at 04:52 PM (#6141552)
All four of these are absolute no-brainers to me, and were at the time (not revisionist history).


Agreed. It seems hard to believe they were even offered, much less turned down.


Turner: Good player having a good year, good leadership. As you try to sort of semi-contend, I can see wanting to keep him. But Cabrera is just too good of an offer to pass up.

Sale: They were not exactly going for it at that time and it was questionable whether he'd contribute again that year.

Paxton: MLB ready #4 starter for a couple months of a guy who's going to be gone at the end of the year and could break at any moment? What's the holdup?

Jansen: Yeah, he was an odd choice. But one way I thought it made sense is if they felt he could be dealt at the deadline. As they were still sort of competing and we don't know the return, maybe this one is less troubling than the others.


If these are all true, they make a good case for the indecisiveness that is apparently his downfall. Tough decisions for sure but ones I think you have to make.
   16. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: September 16, 2023 at 05:02 PM (#6141556)
I love when clapper uses the word "merely". It signals that he's spewing bullshit.
   17. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: September 16, 2023 at 05:05 PM (#6141557)
A lot of talk about Bloom being a scapegoat but I don't think that's quite right. It seems like he was tasked with cutting payroll somewhat, competing for the playoffs, and building the farm back up.


You left out "end the war in Ukraine".
   18. Bad Fish Posted: September 16, 2023 at 06:13 PM (#6141565)
Ownership seems to have no patience with their GM's. I am fairly agnostic about Bloom, but he seemed like he had a plan and the plan was starting to come to fruition. Maybe ownership thought he needed to start turning the corner on performance a year or two ago, and that hasn't happened. I agree with Jose that his biggest flaw was a reluctance to pull the trigger, this hurt him most at the trade deadline when he couldn't decide if he was a buyer or seller. I mean, you have to make a decision that you are going for it and cash some prospects, or not and stockpile more. I don't know if he had explicit orders to trade Mookie, but I think it's clear that he had orders to get the financial house in order and in the context of the time, there was no way to keep Mookie and get under the cap.
   19. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: September 17, 2023 at 01:08 PM (#6141602)
but he seemed like he had a plan...I agree with Jose that his biggest flaw was a reluctance to pull the trigger, this hurt him most at the trade deadline when he couldn't decide if he was a buyer or seller...


I think that's the biggest issue with Bloom - he didn't actually have a coherent plan. He needed to decide what direction he was going with the team and he never did.
   20. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: September 18, 2023 at 09:15 AM (#6141633)
Last night, an old friend of mine who I've know since the mid-90s sent me a message during the Patriots game, telling me she was sorry that my Boston sports teams were (generally) entering a crappy phase. She is a lifelong fans of the Yankees, Bills, Rangers, and Knicks, so she also is well-versed in the highs and lows of sports fandom.

I told her it would probably be another five years before anybody would remotely start feeling bad for us, since we just came out of the most amazing stretch of regional sports success (we'd call it, what, 2001-2019?) in modern American team sports history. The Patriots are really...mediocre. Not really bad anywhere, but few (if any) players currently in the top five at their position. They are going to have an enormous amount of salary cap space next off-season, but that is what fans of bad teams do: They start trash talking about accumulated draft picks and upcoming salary cap space. There was a ton of goodwill after Brady left; I think that goodwill is just about gone. We are just another team.

The Red Sox are developing a group of position players who may, by 2025, be the talk of baseball. Teel, Casas, Mayer, Devers, Anthony, with quality complimentary pieces like Duran, Abreu, Yorke, Meidroth, Yoshida, etc. But they were in 2023 exactly what everybody said they'd be: A .500-ish team that used short-term veterans to buoy up a roster that never solved its middle infield issues; lacked reliable starting pitching; and is basically trying to "fake it until they make it" with the fan base, buying time for the prospects to come up and be successful. This is the least interested I've seen the Boston fan base in the Red Sox since at least the 1994 strike season. In 1995, we won the division, and once Pedro came to town in 1997, it went up a level. The hunger to break The Curse made every baseball game feel like a playoff game for a while. Then, we started winning a lot. But the Betts trade, combined with three last-place season in four years, have made $1 tickets against the Yankees at Fenway an actual thing.

And the fan base generally feels that the Bruins and Celtics have underachieved. The Bruins' playoff collapse after a historic season is tough to shake, and underscores how meaningless the NHL regular season seems. The Celtics in the Tatum/Brown Era are also beginning to feel like the Cylde Drexler Blazers of the Jordan Era: Really good, should have won a title or two in there somewhere, but could never get over the top, then the team starts breaking up. We hit the jackpot, and got multiple elite players through the draft - but still can't get a title.

To be honest, if you are a rabid sports fan in New England, last night's Patriots game felt like the first day of the worst part of the sports calendar: It appears our football team is not going to be relevant this year, and the Red Sox are two weeks away from being done until April. The NBA and NHL seasons haven't even begun yet, but those seasons don't get interesting until April. For 20 years, we just had to fill February and March; now, we may be filling October through March for a while.
   21. Nasty Nate Posted: September 18, 2023 at 10:11 AM (#6141636)
This is the least interested I've seen the Boston fan base in the Red Sox since at least the 1994 strike season.
Maybe this is right, but I think several other Septembers for bad squads come very close. The fanbase was not interested in the Sox in September 2012, for example.

As a topic, I also find it interesting. But in terms of the team going forward ... so what? Fan disinterest doesn't directly affect wins and losses. Will it make the team spend more? Spend less? Will they sell the team?
   22. Darren Posted: September 18, 2023 at 10:30 AM (#6141638)

I think that's the biggest issue with Bloom - he didn't actually have a coherent plan.


That was his plan! Sorta. :) He explained at times that they didn't have one set plan but instead had many possible avenues they were ready to take depending on the opportunities available. It seemed like a good idea but one that would be tricky to pull off. Maybe it was or maybe it was a bad idea.
   23. jmurph Posted: September 18, 2023 at 10:45 AM (#6141643)
All four of these are absolute no-brainers to me, and were at the time (not revisionist history).

These are really hard to understand from Bloom's perspective, seem more like moves that ownership wouldn't like? Dumping named veterans signaling a white flag?

Otherwise I'm just lost.
   24. jmurph Posted: September 18, 2023 at 10:55 AM (#6141645)
I love when clapper uses the word "merely". It signals that he's spewing bullshit.

I'm going to forgive clapper's Red Sox trolling this one time, he's in the midst of watching his guy put up the first of many ~100 game seasons at 40 million a pop, some amount of lashing out is to be expected.
   25. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 18, 2023 at 11:27 AM (#6141651)
Some rather sensitive folks apparently hang out in this small corner of the Internet. I just noted that if the Red Sox ownership wasn’t risk adverse about paying any one player ~$350M, then not extending Betts remains inexplicable, since there didn’t seem to be any Betts-specific reason to trade him. That’s a rather unremarkable statement, but I guess it matters who says it.

As for Aaron Judge, I’m pretty sure he’ll have more seasons of well over 100 games, while hitting HRs at about the same pace as the last two years, but go ahead and root for him to be injured if it makes you feel better. You can even insist you’re not trolling.
   26. jmurph Posted: September 18, 2023 at 01:44 PM (#6141655)
Ha, not rooting, I promise, just observing. It's concerning, surely worth noting. But you're right, he'll probably get healthier as he ages, that checks out.
   27. villageidiom Posted: September 18, 2023 at 03:03 PM (#6141664)
Regarding trading Sale in 2022... I mean, if we're going to say on one hand that part of Bloom's mandate was to field a competitive team while rebuilding and on the other hand he should have traded Sale at the 2022 deadline, that doesn't make any sense. It is very difficult to acquire a pitcher of Sale's caliber, so when you have him you keep him. That aside, I will once again remind folks that Sale had 10/5 rights at the 2022 deadline, so whatever "major league sources" are reporting that there was an offer for Sale for "all but $14 million... and two prospects" might not know the whole story.

The rest of the rumored deals are the kind of thing we were saying - OK, I was saying - at the beginning of the season: If they are competing these are good players, but if they are not competing these are good players to trade at the deadline. I think it would have been a pretty easy call to make at the deadline to trade these players.
   28. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: September 18, 2023 at 03:51 PM (#6141666)
The Bruins' playoff collapse after a historic season is tough to shake, and underscores how meaningless the NHL regular season seems.


The B's didn't collapse. They lost, because 2 key players went down. Bergeron and more importantly, Ullmark.
   29. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: September 18, 2023 at 04:43 PM (#6141673)
Plus, they lost in 7 to the team that went to the finals. That's not a collapse. It's a disappointing defeat.
   30. jmurph Posted: September 19, 2023 at 08:57 AM (#6141739)
Also the Celtics are really good and have been very successful during the Tatum and Brown run; winning a title is hard and most teams don't do it.

(Since we're rehashing the Boston sports comments above.)
   31. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: September 19, 2023 at 11:56 AM (#6141754)
The B's didn't collapse. They lost, because 2 key players went down. Bergeron and more importantly, Ullmark.


Collapse may not be the right word, but they were up 3-1 with two home games left against a #8 seed after having the most success regular season in NHL history, and they lost. It certainly makes it tough to take seriously next regular season for Bruins fans.

Also, it would be interesting to know what Sale thinks of being traded from Boston towards a contender. He knows the team won't retain him after 2024, and he knows he won't hit any of the triggers that enact his 2024 option, either. So I'd think he'd love a chance to chase a ring. I just can't believe another team would give up much of value for him, even with only one year left on his deal.
   32. Nasty Nate Posted: September 19, 2023 at 01:04 PM (#6141767)
An under-discussed part of the Mookie trade is the on-field potential of David Price at the time. He opted out in 2020 and pitched effectively, but not prolifically, in 2021 and 2022. But was he healthy and pitching in spring training in 2020 before COVID? And part of the reason he didn't pitch much in 2021 and 2022 was the incredible pitching depth of those Dodgers teams. So at the time of the trade it was reasonable to expect that Price (if not traded) would provide decent albeit over-priced production for his upcoming age 34-36 seasons, right? I often read about the trade as if he was a complete dead weight going forward.
   33. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: September 19, 2023 at 02:24 PM (#6141774)
It certainly makes it tough to take seriously next regular season for Bruins fans.


Sure. Losing Bergeron and Krejci and filling in some spots with journeymen veterans, we'll see what happens. Hopefully Ullmark will have another good year...their D is still pretty good with McAvoy, Lindholm and Carlo anchoring it. They're gonna have a mix of kids and veterans up front, and if* DeBrusk can find a center who can get him the puck, and he steps up and has a big year, who knows. Center is gonna be the key for the team. I like Zacha, I like Coyle, I like Frederic, I like Lauko, but Zacha is the closest to a top line C than any of them, but its he? Maybe. We'll see.

I don't mind a team that sneaks into the playoffs as a 6, 7 or 8 seed and then does what Florida did last year.

Lucic. Which line is he gonna protect? Pastrnak's? Marchand's? (Lucic is younger than Marchand, btw. He's had a much rougher time of it out there and isn't nearly as talented, but he may give them the toughness they need to allow the skill guys to do their thing without worrying about getting hammered nightly.)

*If is a huge word here.
   34. villageidiom Posted: September 19, 2023 at 02:39 PM (#6141781)
From what I recall Price was thought back then similar to how we think of Chris Sale today. He had a bunch of injuries and bouts of ineffectiveness related to that, but pitched well when healthy. Postseason difficulties also factored into it:

2016 gave up 5 ER in 3.1 IP in ALDS Game 2 against the pre-Guardians.

2017 was pitching in relief after coming back from injury in September, and while he pitched fine in relief the fact that they were paying $30 million for a reliever wasn't seen as a positive.

2018 like everyone else he had a good year. In the playoffs he lost his first outing to the Yankees, giving up 3 ER in 1.2 IP. He got a ND against the Astros after giving up 4 ER in 4.2 IP. After that he was a stud: 1.37 ERA in 19.2 IP, including a relief appearance in WS game 3 right after having won game 2, and getting the win in the series-closing game. I think everyone recognized Price as being more deserving of the WS MVP honors that Steve Pearce stole from him, but up to that point the sense was that Boston might need to win in spite of him rather than because of him.

2019 he missed the playoffs due to injury, which makes sense as he had 3 different periods of absence due to injury in the regular season.

In short, it's not so much that David Price was a bad pitcher or even a bad person, but that the David Price contract was a bad contract.

That, of course, brings us back to Sale because the last few years he has been making around what Price used to make. And that brings up again the offer the Rangers supposedly gave for Sale. It would be like the Betts/Price trade - except without including Betts in the deal!
   35. Nasty Nate Posted: September 19, 2023 at 02:52 PM (#6141783)
2019 he missed the playoffs due to injury, which makes sense as he had 3 different periods of absence due to injury in the regular season.

In short, it's not so much that David Price was a bad pitcher or even a bad person, but that the David Price contract was a bad contract.
He also missed the 2019 playoffs due to the Red Sox not winning enough games to qualify for it.

But I was curious as to whether he was healthy in February 2020? And when it comes to bad contracts there are different degrees of badness. I think if they don't make the trade he is in the Sox rotation when healthy in 2021 and 2022, because we obviously didn't have the likes of Kershaw-Buehler-Urias-Bauer-Gonsolin-Scherzer ahead of him on the depth chart.
   36. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: September 19, 2023 at 03:19 PM (#6141786)
then not extending Betts remains inexplicable


Oh, it's explicable. We may not like the explanation, but it's explicable: They traded him to rid themselves of other contracts. They chose to extend Devers because Devers is younger. There's your explanation. And thank the lord you were able to find this small corner if the internet, because you're such an entertainer!
   37. Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Posted: September 19, 2023 at 03:21 PM (#6141787)
FTR, I like Judge. Especially on this feeble impotent Yankee team they're fielding these days. Reminds me of Frank Howard, hitting bombs for the perennially 9th place Washington Senators.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
A triple short of the cycle
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Syndicate

Page rendered in 0.6271 seconds
40 querie(s) executed