User Comments, Suggestions, or Complaints | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertising
Page rendered in 0.4394 seconds
37 querie(s) executed
|
You are here > Home > Sox Therapy > Discussion
| ||||||||
|
|
BookmarksYou must be logged in to view your Bookmarks. Hot TopicsOver and Out
(37 - 3:21pm, Sep 19) Last: Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful We're Gonna Need A Bigger Boat (83 - 7:44am, Sep 19) Last: Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Halfwayish to Something (81 - 12:02pm, Aug 21) Last: jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Three Trades (17 - 3:46pm, Jul 28) Last: Darren Where We Headed? (34 - 5:09pm, Jul 17) Last: villageidiom Feeling A Draft (22 - 11:27pm, Jul 10) Last: Darren The Case for Doing Nothing (30 - 2:44pm, Jul 10) Last: Darren The First Third (25 - 4:12pm, Jun 27) Last: Captain Joe Bivens, Pointless and Wonderful Lining Up The Minors (72 - 4:28pm, Jun 26) Last: villageidiom That Was a Week (63 - 7:31pm, Jun 25) Last: jacksone (AKA It's OK...) The Only Game In Town (except the Celtics, but I don't care about the Celtics. No you shut up) (87 - 11:27am, May 26) Last: ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Yoshida In The Spotlight (49 - 2:09pm, May 12) Last: Darren Reality Check After Series Six (79 - 9:29pm, May 04) Last: villageidiom Shrug Emoji (40 - 7:10pm, Apr 22) Last: Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Opening Weekend Opinions (109 - 12:21pm, Apr 18) Last: pikepredator Syndicate |
|||||||
|
About Baseball Think Factory | Write for Us | Copyright © 1996-2021 Baseball Think Factory
User Comments, Suggestions, or Complaints | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertising
|
| | ||||||
Reader Comments and Retorts
Go to end of page
Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
1. Rough CarriganI like it if Donnelly was warming to get the cheapie save, but not if he was brought in specifically for mop-up. He does seem to get a ton of mop-up, although I think that's just been flukey. I think he and Okie are Tito's two favorite setup men right now, and rightly so.
who are you and what have you done with darren?
I contend that John Farrell is exercising a lot of control over the bullpen usage, and he's just got better instincts for this than Tito.
1) Papelbon should be not be used more than 4 times a week, and 3 days in a row.
2) If it's not a save situation (aka ridiculous low leverage), Papelbon should not be used.
3) Papelbon should pitch a MAXIMUM two innings in an outing. If Papelbon pitches two innings, he should get the day off the next day no matter what.
4) Personally I think the 7th inning is a little too early to be bringing in Papelbon, so he should be restricted to usage in the 8th and 9th innings in high-leverage situations.
5) If Papelbon comes in the 8th and the Red Sox score a shitteload of runs, which translates into a dramatic decrease in leverage, Papelbon should be taken out of the game and another pitcher be brought in to finish the game. How dramatic in decrease is up for discussion, but I'm going to go with a 3 run gap to start with.
I know ESPN has Papelbon's Game log. If the thread header could have Papelbon and Okajima's Game log, that would be fantastic so we can track it in-thread.
Thanks guys, I appreciate the support.
I'm just curious if Papelbon ever warmed up when the score was 4-1 and the Sox about to bat in the top of the 9th. I'd *love* to see that Tito wasn't steering even cheapie saves to Papelbon.
He might have just had Pap up in case of trouble. What if Okie get's a couple guys on? Wouldn't Pap be likely to come in for his patented 1st and 3rd, 1 out in the 8th, appearance?
I like this usage so far, but I only wish they'd use guys for more than 1 IP at a time.
Nice to see that Okajima and Donnelly have secured the prime set-up roles. They've earned them.
That's funnier if you know what he looks like.
And I read at a very high level--it's my righting dat is teh childish.
Wok's rules are OK with me.
That would have been disaster considering the strengths of the bullpen right now.
I mean, 3 nights in a row? That's just wrong.
You assume correctly. Which tie games, I have no idea though.
you wanted JC Romero facing Giambi in the eighth inning on Sunday?
This is why we should have a reliever that's better than JC Romero
What were his pitch counts the previous couple of days?
The biggest problem with that inning was that Matsuzaka didn't get A-Rod to lead off the inning. Had he done so, Okajima would have only had to face 2 batters, and Donnelly would have come out with 2 outs, and I woudln't be makign such a big deal out of this. The second biggest problem with that inning was that ridiculous BS route Coco took
The only thing not going well so far is the Tavarez Rotation Project. How many more starts do people think he'll get until Lester/Hansack/Pauley/AAA filler is called up? Or is the job pretty much his permanently, due to not being able or willing to send down or cut Snyder to make room for another starter?
Don't think I saw this answered, Papelbon was warming yesterday when it was 4-1.
I think it would be an extreme situation for me to want Paps to get 6 outs, during the regular season. Very rare.
But we will not have a triumphant video without a better reliever!
Although critizing Papelbon for walks right now is kind of like the guy in the crwod watching Jesus walking on water and then yelling "hey, can't you swim?"
This might get him in trouble in the end.
I don't mind getting Papelbon the cheapie save tonight... He hasn't been used in 3 days, I woudl have sent out Piniero, but it really doens't matter. Papelbon only used 15 pitches right?
I don't expect Papelbon to be used Saturday anyway, since i expect a blowout against us.
I agree. Especially against dangerous hitting teams like the Yankees, and with rest and a day off the next day, I like the Paps usage on the cheapo three-run saves. Helps my fantasy team a little, too.
Batting Order Position: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9At-Bats plus walks: 3 2 4 4 4 5 5 4 4
They didn't have PA on the splits, but AB+BB should be close enough.
Papelbon better not be hurt and pull that 'pitch through the pain' BS.
Usage approved.
I would have liked it better had he came into the game earlier when it was still close though.
As always with CBW's breakdowns, it's an interesting read.
As you can see, Francona's usage of Pap scores very high here. One thing working in his favor is that they haven't had a ton of close games, so he probably has a little more leeway to pick and choose his spots.
I think the only game Papelbon has pitched in a tie situation was when he blew the save against Oakland he made the game tied.
Are they available for the second game of the doubleheader? I'd be wary that's for sure. I'd say Okajima is available as a LOOGY only, and Papelbon I woul dmake available as a ROOGY.
Yeah, we need an Okajiam usage manual.
Papelbon out with 4 run lead in 9th, gave up 2 walks but no runs.
both that 3 days of rest.
I say meh.
If the outings were quick, I woudl have called into the "Terry Francona Fatwah Hotline"
Oh, the hubris!
I'm glad they got Pap in last night. He may need just a bit more work in order to stay sharp. No doubt they are walking a fine line with him and seem to do so reasonably well.
I thought he was calling the shots because (a) the high-lev tryout for Snyder and Lopez, (b) the demotion of Timlin and the promotion of Okajima, and (c) the currently happening demotion of Romero and Pineiro in favor of Snyder and Lopez. It was his willingness to give a chance right out of the gate to each of his pitchers that seemed un-Francona to me. There was a strict trial period, a set of decisions, and now we have a bullpen. Good bullpens aren't built with creative usage, they're built by identifying and using good pitchers. That's where I see Farrell making a difference.
I don't follow this at all. I don't think Snyder's gotten many high-lev chances and I think Francona has used Lopez similarly to how he used him last year. Has Timlin been demoted? I don't see that either. I've seen them try to ease him back into pitching in low-lev situations. I admit, I may be reading the Snyder thing wrong. If he is, in fact, going to be used as a middle man now, I like that idea a lot. Pineiro to long relief also makes some sense.
(Also don't see any evidence that Francona like multi-inning appearances more than other managers. Maybe similarly, but not more.)
Well, it seems to be Paps-Oki-Donelly-Snyder, with Lopez as the Loogy who has loogied well, for the bullpen innings when the team is ahead, depending on how far the starter takes the game, right? This ranking seems like the one to go with at the moment, right? Snyder, the 6th inning guy, had not gotten into a game since 5/20 before last night. Why would MDC's need to gain sharpness be be a higher imperative than Snyder's? I wanted that W nailed down last night, and Tito (now over .500 lifetime) made the logical bullpen string tugs.
Unless you wanted Dice out after the 4th and MDC in?
-Tonight looks like good evidence that Lopez has surpassed Romero on the food chain. Though he needs to actually get the outs in the future.
-I liked the way that Francona/Farrell used only one of Papelbon or Okajima, so they have one available if there's a save situation tomorrow.
I have to say, I had huge concerns about this bullpen going into the season, and they have pitched better than my wildest expectations.
I don't understand the fascination with the armslot. He's been K'ing 2+ guys per appearance and not walking as many as he was earlier. Yes, guys are also getting hits off of him, but that seems to have a lot do with approach. They seem to be looking for 1st pitch fastballs these days. Pap and Tek will just have to adjust.
Against Yankees: 5 run lead blah
Against Yankees: Tie game gave up winning run blah
didn't pitch for 5 days
Got 3 outs tonight w/ 1 run lead, 2K's, 1 HBP, 1 hit. Meh.
Using Pap on June 2 in a 5-run game meant that Pap had to come back for a 2nd day in a row to pitch in a close game. It also meant that he couldn't be used on June 4 in a close game. Really poor usage overall. He also failed to get him work in the next two games, both which were close.
Since using Papelbon in the 8th a couple times early on, Francona hasn't done a particularly good job in using him. Pap has basically been your run-of-the-mill 1 inning closer, only with limitations on how often he can pitch.
Anyway, Papelbon out today in a 1 run game after 2 days of rest.
Approved.
If we lose any of the next 4 games due to Okajima unavailability/Okajima suckage, I'm blaming Francona.
Again, it's not a strong defense.
What does Okajiam need to do to get some time off? Frak.
w00t
59 G, 59 IP - Papelbon
74 G, 83 IP - Okajima
61 G, 47 IP - Donnelly
59 G, 68 IP - Pineiro
56 G, 37 IP - Lopez
50 G, 55 IP - Snyder
Basically, Okajima needs a bit of a slowdown, but it won't take too much to get him down to a slightly more reasonable rate. All the other work is being spread very well, and obviously the starters are a big reason for that.
I love that they gave Manny D a tryout last night, instead of going with Timlin or Snyder, and I think Manny might have showed enough to earn another look.
I think Tito might have kept Beckett in today in order to rest Okajima for another game. They mentioned on a broadcast a bit ago (after Okajima threw three days in a row) that Francona had been talking about how he overworked Papelbon last year, and that he was worried about overworking Okajima this year. I don't really think Papelbon was overworked last year, but regardless, it means that they'll probably try to cut back with Okajima.
Also, somebody should do that thing they do to horses with broken legs to Timlin.
Even when they were reasonably close in the standings, Pap was almost always held to 1 or less IP. Heck, I'd advocate it even with this large lead to a) prepare for the playoffs, b) allow for a more consistent and workable schedule for Pap, and c) allow Okajima a few more days off.
I think he, Foulke, and Timlin were worked a bit hard early on and all three paid. I don't think they've learned the lesson that I wanted them to though.
He also really lost his cool, which is something to keep in mind. When he finishes, he is often jumping around and pumping his fist. This guy works at a very high intensity level--perhaps he was cut out for this role rather than starter.
No kidding.
Damn, Kenny Lofton is one tough out and has been for a very long time. What a great and underated player he is. .372 career OBP, 2353 hits, 4 gold gloves, 619 steals (although 250 of them came tonight against Wake/Mirabelli tonight). Yet year after year, he signs 1-2 year deals at short money while other guys get the big money. It's like his mediocre 2001 convinced everyone that he was finished and no one can really believe he's still good. The Sox could have done worse than getting him to fill the gap left by Damon.
Lofton, though, would be the ceiling-ish comp for Ellsbury. I'm sure that plenty of guys with similar pedigrees don't amount to nearly as much. A more pessimistic comp would be Juan Pierre, who's still a good player overall.
Was it wishful thinking or did Timlin look somewhat competent against some good hitters tonight? No K's but a bunch of weak pop-ups.
Yea Gagne Yea Okajima rest Yea.
Edit: Brendan Donnelly out for year Sad.
You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.
<< Back to main