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BTW, I would like to hear how Eraser-X's use of the word "gypped" falls into his racial harmony.
He has proven it over 700+ PA's.
He seems to be the perfect guy to play every day a leftie is not on the mound.
Him becoming the next david ortiz isnt really up for debate, at least not from me. however to ignore the fact that he fits that mold (big/slow/patient at the plate/blossoms late) seems silly also. i guess what i am trying say is his ceiling higher than most 27 year olds.
As to expectations on Choi, Mordecai cited my post as an example of thinking Choi would become Ortiz, because I mentioned that both were described as having holes in their swings. In that very same post, though, I explicitly stated my hopes for Choi: 360/500. As opposed to what David Ortiz has done for the last three years, which is approximately 380/600. I don't see that happening.
In 2003-2004, Kevin Millar put up about 360/470 for Boston at 1B. If Choi can match that, I think we should be all content. He was certainly a lot easier to acquire than Millar was.
I do think Choi's upside is higher than than, particularly on the SLG end. Which raises another point: a number of recent Sox pick-ups are high SLG, so-so OBP guys (Gonzalez, Crisp, sort of, Pena, Choi), and supposedly there's some new SABR idea that SLG is actually more valuable than SLG, contrary to the conventional wisdom. Does that new idea carry any weight? And is there any reason to think that might be influencing Boston's decisions? Obviously, it's only a few guys, and they're pretty reasonable pickups regardless, but it seems worth considering.
Seconded. Seriously, aren't there enough threads/forums for you all to discuss these issues? The Choi story was completely derailed by the issue of the use of the word "gay" and all its derivative questions. Take it somewhere else so that people can debate the BASEBALL issue of HSC's utility for the Red Sox. A perfectly good thread was wasted by self righteous and self important posters who want to argue certain issues outside of their university classrooms. Give everybody who wants to discuss baseball a break.
The sox focus (if its that) on SLG% probably has more to do with "Moneyball" letting on the secret that OBP% is the key to a hitter success, and the market over-correcting itself. As a result of this, other "abilities" become undervalued. If you look at the A's for example, you can see the FO has seemingly taken a defense first attitude.
1) I was unaware of just how horrible he is against LHP...small sample though.
2) The guy hits a lot of doubles for a 6-5 240 pounder.
What does this problem matter considering that Lowell or Youks could be fine platoon partner?
2) The guy hits a lot of doubles for a 6-5 240 pounder.
What do you mean? In the minors he hit the same number of doubles as homers, and in the majors it is pretty close.
Like the one about your niece? No one had a problem with your anecdote or questioned it, so why would you call someone else's into question?
gagne_55 I frigging well hate your raps and you can shove them where the sun don't shine. While I didn't mind seeing you in the thread as you were a Choi fan etc etc, your rap was a piece of crud like all your others you Eminem wanna be.
Is that for the Jays game??
And Choi isn't David Ortiz, but when he plays everyday he can rake. Tracy missused him by shuffling him between bench and line-up. Have him play every game a against right handers and he'll hit 25-30 homers, though I doubt he'll get that chance.
Good pickup for the Sox. I'm very confident about our playoff chances.
i didn't know mcnally was short and fat, but i'm not surprised. regardless, he should get less for being a yankee fan and a "steroids apologist".
I still think Gagne_55 is a *very* elaborate hoax, and I doubt I'll ever be convinced otherwise.
as is often the case, i agree with biff. except i don't think it's so elaborate ... i'm just playing around
and with choi ... i polled the yah dude brainless only know what jerry remy population (a small sample of course) and they weren't enamored with the choi signing. we already have jt snow! ... and i think mike "one nut" lowell is going to have a great season. i think i need to win the fantasy baseball league 2 seasons in a row to be the absoulte authority on all things baseball. ... i'm just a smart guy right now.
btw, i'm drunk.
right on, brother.
We won in injury time mate vs. Wigan. I was in a good mood till I came here it seems. Hell of a hangover though that I have
Stop being redundant. Pinko lush.
I really think I like our roster. Just get one more OK 4th-5th type starting pitcher and we're all set.
by his own crew.
Due to his suckage
The slogan "By the Way, I'm Drunk" plastered on a huge Bumper Sticker would give one free reign over any Highway Lane.
I'm quite positive without a search that I've used it at least a half-a-dozen times on the site.
I had no idea where the term came from and using it displayed this ignorance on the subject. It was stupid and I'll try my very best to not use the term again except in context--"'Gypped' is an example of a commonly used term with a troubling history", etc.
So, my baggage, my fault and the rest.
Of course, this fits into my "racial harmony" view perfectly. I've always said, that I care little about people using the word "chinaman" and a lot more about their lame non-apologies and extreme defensiveness when they are called out on it.
Using the word, "Chinaman" doesn't make you a racist. Using the word and then thinking that someone informing you of the history of the term is a whiny PC #####, certainly smacks of privilege of some kind.
I've only read the first page so there's still hope. But if the entire thread is like this I'm going to feel #### gipped.
I have a close female friend who uses the word pretty often, saying stuff like, "That history exam totally raped me." She uses it far more frequently than any of my male friends, in fact. Small sample size, sure, but she was the first person I thought of when I read of your objection to the term.
I have a close female friend who uses the word pretty often, saying stuff like, "That history exam totally raped me." She uses it far more frequently than any of my male friends, in fact. Small sample size, sure, but she was the first person I thought of when I read of your objection to the term.
I think I understand the objection. The comparison to saying that a team got killed in a game (as opposed to raped) is somewhat inapt, because rape is necessarily very intimate. Death OTOH can be very impersonal, random, happenstance, ancillary...you get the idea. I don't know that it's a particularly important distinction, but I see it nonetheless.
Ooh, can we start a Cahill-Foucault debate on whether rape should only be comdemned as an act of violence? To do so gives it special status that only act as cultural repression, enclosing sexuality in a special veil of protection that's a cultural construction and will in the end only harm the place sexuality should hold as a natural act.
I think this could be a Primer first, and at the very least an interesting reprieve from steroids/using gay as a pejorative/religion/politics threads.
Well, free-swinging sexuality without consequences as we have here and now is largely a cultural construct made possible by medical advances. In a natural state, where contraception and abortion is unavailable, shouldn't rape be an even worse crime?
I think I understand the objection. The comparison to saying that a team got killed in a game (as opposed to raped) is somewhat inapt, because rape is necessarily very intimate. Death OTOH can be very impersonal, random, happenstance, ancillary...you get the idea. I don't know that it's a particularly important distinction, but I see it nonetheless
I think that's the point of using "rape", you want to reflect the humiliation of the losing side, killing does not have right connotations. Like: "Jim Bowden was raped in the Soriano trade".
I don't think it's especially culturally insensitive to use "rape", it's just hyperbole. Of course using tired,hyperbolic cliches is a crime against the reader.
Chelsea have been Chelski to tabloid headline writers since about 13 seconds after Abramovich bought them. It has fallen out of favour over the last year or so though.
Yes, I have. In the 1984 election, the .6% of the people who voted for a fringe candidate recognized that Mondale had no chance. Their vote for him wouldn't have closed Reagan's margin of victory gap below 17%. Even Massachusetts went for Reagan in '84. In 2000, I held my nose and voted for Kerry.
Jesse Jackson was a bad example.
To Skewed Priorities...please re read, or read, 162. I'm not talking about what 8 year olds think or know. I address the source of the term. You just don't get it.
I love anecdotes.
Like the one about your niece? No one had a problem with your anecdote or questioned it, so why would you call someone else's into question?
Because tfbg9's anecdote apologizes for insensitive remarks by giving the impression that everyone was uttering them, even "lefties". I mentioned what my niece said because she's 1) 7 years old, and 2) I love anecdotes. BTW, who are you? Do I know you as someone else here? If not and you've really only made 2 posts total, welcome.
Sardonic, I was referring to Skewed, not you, about the capitalization. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
And to Mitch the golfing great: It's good to see that, for the good of a thread, you can resist the urge to call "BS" when you see it. You're a better man than me.
And a better grammarian.
It implies that the "pwned" entity is the property of the "pwnee", thus making light of slavery.
chelski? haha! is this a typo?
I thought that it was a combination of Chelsea and levski. Speaking of which, how come he hasn't stopped by to offer some Diamonddreck for Choi?
is there anyone else who is worried that the racism of boston fans will make it hard for choi to succeed? it is not exactly similar to the kim situation, since choi does not require a translator, but i'm not sure his english is "good" enough to make that much of a difference in the fans' minds. i just feel like people are going to see the guy's "foreign" name, see his approach at the plate, and want one of their white "dirt dogs" back. maybe i am getting a bit ahead of myself here, but i am already concerned for him.
In college, my girlfriend told her roommates that I said it in connection with exams, and they liked it so much they all picked up on it. (And I had some pretty offensive variations on it too.)
Talk about fringe candidates. He wasn't even running.
He was thinking about it?
becuase he knows that the dbacks could have had him for free.
What the hell are you talking about?
Sox Rule!-- or at least talk...
Sorry, just joining the Cahill-Foucalt debate (see dahlians post before mine) about rape as a crime. I didn't think rape is a bad crime just because we got cultural hangups about sex. Not so interesting to know, maybe.
Haven't there been enough Hee Seop Choi threads?
There have definitely, though, been discussions here of the whole Kim situation, and while his being Korean may have played some role there, the dominant factor, in my opinion, was the disappointment of high expectations. Relievers are particularly vulnerable to this, since if they make any mistake in a close game suddenly they blew it (and it wasn't, say, the starter's fault for hanging a curve in the 3rd or the hitters fault flailing at a pitch out of the zone, etc).
I'm not sure I accept sublime's theory that Boston's recent interest in high-SLG, mediocre-OBP guys stems from the market catching up to OBP. I'm skeptical because SLG is still highly valued, and OBP is still, according to many, enormously important (in Moneyball DePodesta speculates that it's 3x as important as SLG, though normally I see 1.6 or so), to the point that these players would not be that valuable offensively. Maybe I'm wrong, though. And, of course, this is only a few guys we're talking about.
Anyway, this case for SLG being more important than OBP is apparently made by Dayn Perry in his book Winners. I haven't read it, but here's a brief summary of the first chapter from a Hardball Times review:
"He goes on to show that of the basic rate stats—batting average, slugging percentage, on-base percentage and isolated power (which he calls isolated slugging percentage)—slugging percentage correlates more closely with run scoring than the rest, and that therefore it is the most important.... First, the table he uses on page 13 to make his case is broken down by eras that include 1871-1900, 1901-1925, 1926-1950, 1951-1975 and 1976-2000. In doing so he found that SLG’s correlation with runs scored in the 1976-2000 era was .868 while OBP was .811."
I'm not exactly sure what that means.
How do you even pronounce "pwned"?
The 'e' is silent.
This Sox Therapy thing is a whole separate world, isn't it.
Gosh, I'm agreeing with the evil Backlasher on something, in a Choi thread, no less.
So you were well ahead of the curve in spotting pandering, Mr. Howell Sound-alike nitwit losers! Good job! And you've also brought us full circle in a way Bivvo, since Kerry famously and hilariously once claimed "I'm fascinated by rap music."
I wouldn't worry about any racial component in the fans' treatment of Choi in Boston/Greater Boston (should he ever get out of AAA, that is)--the area votes very solidly Democratic every election, so we need not worry.
Only somebody who believed every single thing they heard/are hearing in college would have a dark enough view of American society to seriously worry about future "racist" torments for Choi. It did not take a lot of suds to brainwash those of this ilk. Yeah, he better get some earplugs! It's gonna be UGLY!
I've just been scouring the 'net to find out how hard Foulke was throwing his fastball in Sat's inning against the Jays, and none of the accounts mention his velocity! WTF??? Everybody knows that Foulke's gotta get back up to 88-89 to succeed this year, and not one mention in any of the stories. Anybody watch the game?
You listen to too much Howie Carr. I know the Big Show sucks, but still...
<i>Kerry famously and hilariously once claimed "I'm fascinated by rap music."
Yeah, I know. Maybe he meant that he was fascinated by the hold it has on kids like Gagne 55?
BTW, who the f#ck is Howie Carr? Is he on Air America? Does Air Ameica still exist? I'll cop to listening to the Big Show, it passes the time at the office.
Holy sh!t, corrupt basketball factory UCONN lost to an 11 seed. Wow.
All I see is Wily Mo Pena and Alex Gonzalez. Gonzalez is a one-year stopgap with a great glove in a terrible market for SS, and Wily Mo Pena is all about the upside - plus they're not counting on him as a regular.
The other offensive acquisitions have been solid OBP guys Crisp, Loretta, Snow and Lowell. (Obviously the latter two run the risk of sucking completely, but either way they are highly unlikely to have high SLG with low OBP.) Bard, likewise, is neither a power hitter nor an on-base threat.
I'm amazed that there are still people making fun of Kerry for being "snooty." Isn't it pretty clear at this point that if you choose a president based on who's more of a regular guy and you'd rather have beer with you end up with absolutely incompetent, corrupt twit as a leader?
#60-You nean like Bill "Bubba" Clinton over Bush the Elder?...maybe you're on to something.
WHO SAW FOULKE YESTERDAY???
Saw Beckett for an inning or two today. He's gonna be seriously exciting. That curveball is about seven kinds of nasty, as well as four manners of filthy. And his fastball, it goes fast. I think he threw a few circle changes, too, but I couldn't quite tell because they didn't have a gun on NESN today.
Also, as we watch one of the worst presidencies in American history finally begin to fall apart, these political discussions just seem a bit off. In another decade, the past should be a lot clearer.
Really? Thanks. Except for this: http://www.wtrg.com/prices.htm
A December 1986 OPEC price accord set to target $18 per barrel was already breaking down by January of 1987. Prices remained weak. The price of crude oil spiked in 1990 with the uncertainty associated Iraqi invasion of Kuwait and the ensuing Gulf War, but following the war crude oil prices entered a steady decline until in 1994 inflation adjusted prices attained their lowest level since 1973.
The problem is not the use of the terms, but the self-absorbed lack of empathy that is manifested in the belief that anyone who asks you not to use the term is somehow "thin-skinned" or "PC".
Using the example of "rape": Consider for the moment the number of people in society who have suffered pretty ghastly sexual assaults. If you use the term among your five friends, as long as you can retain your empathy for rape victims, it's your business.
But if you use the term in public or around random people, you are probably going to trigger some pretty upsetting memories for a number of people. If they ask you to stop and you whine about "PC-ness", then you are an #######.
But, none of the principals were drinking the right wines and going to the right concerts so the Glob wasn't too worked up over it.
I think I'll continue to used the word gypped without hesitation, however.
From what I understand the gypsies aren't even from egypt so gypped is a term of lesser known origin based on a misnomer. If someone wants to try to be offensive and yet be more historically accurate they might say "I've been Roma'd!" (a reference to the Romani language) Also, in so much as the word gypsy is used to refer to a lifestyle that includes swindling as opposed to an ethnic group of nomadic people from northern India (as I think it often is) the term is fair game.
"Also, as we watch one of the worst presidencies in American history finally begin to fall apart, these political discussions just seem a bit off. In another decade, the past should be a lot clearer."
This is utter nonsense. The exact same kind of crap we'd hear in '87 from Dan Rather. Where would you place the Carter presidency? And what was Foulke's velocity, dammit!
Meanwhile, somewhere in a parallel universe, President Gore aboard Greenpeace One said he is cautiously optimistic that harsher anti-Taliban UN sancitions should begin to pay off in this his second term.
But if you use the term in public or around random people, you are probably going to trigger some pretty upsetting memories for a number of people. If they ask you to stop and you whine about "PC-ness", then you are an #######.
I suppose this is true, but I still don't really see how it's all that different from the colloquial use of a term like "murder"--except for the fact that you are unlikely to encounter anyone who has personally been murdered, but you might well meet someone who's had it happen to a close friend or relative.
(I don't think I've ever used the word "rape" in a colloquial sense--not because I find it especially objectionable, just because it never really entered my lexicon.)
Sure, but would you use the term "murder" casually in conversation around an eight-year old whose parents were just murdered? If you used it in general conversation and someone who had just lost a loved one to murder was upset, would you apologize and try not to use the term again or would you say, "The colloquial use of the term dictates that you shouldn't be upset when I use that term!"
Wow, you really live in a dream world.
"We elected the wrong Carter."
"Choi does have an option remaining, meaning he can be sent to Triple A Pawtucket without having to pass through waivers. General manager Theo Epstein said that is where Choi will begin the season, ''barring another move."
I am amazed LA released him, and he feel to the sox. That option just adds so much value to him. Maybe the GM's daughter had a little yellow fever?
Can somebody tell me how to edit a post once its made?
Unless you have the keys, you can't.
Again, I'm simply flabbergasted at the HUGE disparity in scouting reports by Cubs fans vs. Dodgers fans.
On the Cubs, sure, Choi had a big swing and trouble handling the inside pitch. Of course, he was young, and it was assumed he would improve with time. But his power was to the opposite field. That was where his natural stroke was. Doubles (and occassional homers) to left-center were his bread and butter. And his strike zone recognition was amazing. The best on the Cubs. Flail at 0-2 breaking balls? He'd take ball one when it was a 1 1/2 ball-widths off the plate. He had great poise up at the plate.
Also, he hit lefties quite well in the minors, and was a decent fielder at worst, a good fielder at best.
If it's true then yes, yes it is.
I'm so sick of people talking about Bush and Bush Jr. as if they're the same ####### person. They share a name but their policies are dramatically different. Bush Sr. was a step back towards the center from Reagan. Bush Jr. picks up where Reagan left off hand in neocon hand. Are you stupid enough to think that it's the president of the United States that has the greatest impact on oil prices. This is a ludicrously ignorant world-view.
I'm simply flabbergasted at the HUGE disparity in scouting reports by Cubs fans vs. Dodgers fans
With the Dodgers Choi had a huge percentage of his PAs as a pinch hitter. Coming into the game cold to face a pitcher might account for this.
Despite all the warnings and complaints about his swing he still hits. I find the argument that X number of organizations gave up on him to be unconvincing. The Cubs moved him for Derrek Lee (he wasn't DERREK LEE!!!1111 but he was a good player), Choi smoked the ball in Florida, and was let go by an organization that played Jason Phillips at first base for half the season.
The kid can play.
Pronouncing the words outloud is totally uncalled for.
Rape is accepted as okay in many, many societies in the world, and tolerated in many more. It's a terrible thing that needs to be taken more seriously throughout the world, and it would help to treat it as such.
nate silver said the same thing. basically a hitter like choi (works counts, pitchers) is even more hurt by PH duties than a 'typical' player.
Thankfully the last page more or less answered that.
Unfortunately that entailed reading the last page. (Although I suppose the previous pages might've been worse. I don't bother to find out.)
Also, for what it's worth, it surprised me to learn that the European gypsies, the Roma if you will, came to Europe from India originally.
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