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— Where Thinking Red Sox Fans Obsess about the Sox

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   1. Darren Posted: November 27, 2019 at 10:16 PM (#5904294)
Hey, I would like to disagree about some of these! What fun!

--Youkilis has to be ... something. He was a great player for 2010-11. And before that, somehow, too.

--Nava is obviously the only choice for LF. And for everything else.

--Bradley vs. Ellsbury is a fun one. Both at exactly 15.0 bWAR!
   2. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: November 28, 2019 at 08:22 PM (#5904422)
Youk was a lot better in 2011 than I remembered. I’m still going with Napoli but I loved Youk.
   3. villageidiom Posted: December 02, 2019 at 12:08 PM (#5904826)
I think the list is spot on. My only quibble is with the other nominees for starting pitcher. Drew Pomeranz was not always healthy, and certainly not flashy. But he went 17-6 in 2017, a season that ended with Boston pitching getting uncharacteristically pounded at Minute Maid Park. I'm only arguing he should've been a nominee. He shouldn't crack the top 5.

And now that we've been thankful, who are our Thanksgiving turkeys of the decade?

1B - James Loney. I have no problem with James Loney. He was with Boston only to round out the disastrous 2012 season, the main MLB return from the Punto trade. But he was horrible in that time, with a 570 OPS.

2B - Ian Kinsler. I have no problem with Ian Kinsler. But when Boston got him for the 2018 stretch drive he was in the twilight of his career.

3B - Pablo Sandoval.

SS - Yamaico Navarro. Boston's shortstops could either hit and field, or field very well. Navarro could handle shortstop OK, but wasn't Iglesian or anything. That's too bad, because his bat needed him to be Iglesian if his presence were to be justified.

C - A.J. Pierzynski. He was OK with Boston. But there are very few candidates for this one.

LF - I have to choose? Damn. As much as I want to say Carl Crawford, I think I have to put Hanley Ramirez here. He was so bad they had to find another position for him.

CF - Mike Cameron. Remember that whole plan to have Ellsbury play LF and Cameron play CF? And then Ellsbury got hurt in a collision with Beltre? What is often forgotten in that stretch is the two years of poor hitting, aging range, and injury that we got from Cameron.

RF - Rusney Castillo. I have nothing against Rusney Castillo. He was OK. Most of the RF candidates are at worst OK. It's more a commentary on the contract, as Boston paid a lot for OK.

DH - Allen Craig. Same.

SP: Daisuke Matsuzaka, Tim Wakefield, Felix Doubront, Allen Webster, Henry Owens - The first two were great in the prior decade, but we got the worst of them in this one. The latter three seemed like they had a lot of promise but could never deliver on it. Before 2019 Doubront was the one who Eduardo Rodriguez reminded me of... It just seemed like he would pitch well for a few innings and then couldn't get through the 5th.

RP: Joel Hanrahan. I mean, there are tons of relievers who didn't do well for Boston. Hanrahan was the epitome of the relief turkey. He only pitched in 9 games for Boston, and none in MLB since. He got 4 saves, none by entering with a 1-run lead. He had 2 blown saves. He was injured for most of his tenure, as was the custom for Boston relief acquisitions of the time.

Manager: Bobby Valentine.
   4. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: December 02, 2019 at 12:53 PM (#5904858)
I'd go with Andrew Bailey over Hanrahan. He was equally bad and came at a pretty substantial cost. The Hanrahan trade included Brock Holt so while he was a disaster the trade worked out OK.
   5. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: December 02, 2019 at 01:51 PM (#5904888)
I'd go with Andrew Bailey over Hanrahan.


No mention of the supposed "Tyler Thornburg" the Sox were purported to receive for Travis Shaw?
   6. Captain Joe Bivens, Elderly Northeastern Jew Posted: December 02, 2019 at 02:01 PM (#5904895)
No on Saltalamonkeyface (Vazquez), no on Buchholz (Lackey or Porcello were better), and NOOOOOOO on Farrell, unless it's an Iron Mike Sharpe lookalike contest.
   7. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: December 02, 2019 at 02:11 PM (#5904902)
No mention of the supposed "Tyler Thornburg" the Sox were purported to receive for Travis Shaw?


Fictional players were not eligible for consideration.
   8. Darren Posted: December 02, 2019 at 02:53 PM (#5904930)
You make a really good case for Hanley in LF, but I still think Crawford has to win out. He was so bad that we had to attach good players to him to get rid of him. At least Hanley had one year where he was useful to us. Tough call.

At catcher, I really disliked watching Salty play but I can't argue with Jose's assessment.
   9. Silas Wegg Posted: December 02, 2019 at 04:40 PM (#5904984)
I'd go with Andrew Bailey over Hanrahan.

Don't forget Marc Melancon!
   10. villageidiom Posted: December 02, 2019 at 06:16 PM (#5905031)
You make a really good case for Hanley in LF, but I still think Crawford has to win out. He was so bad that we had to attach good players to him to get rid of him. At least Hanley had one year where he was useful to us. Tough call.


Crawford was bad in the following senses:
1. Bad hitter but healthy in year 1.
2. Good hitter but injured in year 2.
3. Insane contract that even his prior performance couldn't possibly justify.

He was traded because of #3.

Arguably they got a good year out of Hanley because he was perceived as being so bad they couldn't trade him. Hell, they flat-out released him in 2018 and nobody picked him up.

In the meantime, there's also the aspect of defense. Hanley was a grossly incompetent LF. Crawford was still good, though waning. This isn't a "defensive numbers can't be believed" thing: Hanley was an obvious dumpster fire out there, and had to be moved off the position. He might have been OK at 1B, but he was a turkey in LF.
   11. John DiFool2 Posted: December 02, 2019 at 07:08 PM (#5905043)
And now that we've been thankful, who are our Thanksgiving turkeys of the decade?


Not sure why the draft/system busts weren't eligible, but Lars Anderson & Will Middlebrooks have to be on there, for starters.
   12. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: December 02, 2019 at 09:15 PM (#5905067)
WMB almost certainly should be on the turkey list but third base is tough with Fat Panda there. But a guy throwing away an MLB career because he didn't want to wear glasses is just spectacularly incompetent. Anderson I think was just incorrectly evaluated in no small part due to the Lancaster effect.

I'd take Crawford over Hanley on the turkey list. Crawford never stopped whining about being treated badly by the mean people in Boston. Hanley in all fairness handled things about as well as someone in his situation could have. He was a bust but that's on management not him.
   13. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: December 03, 2019 at 10:30 AM (#5905166)

Don't forget Marc Melancon!


Lowrie and Kyle Weiland were taded for Melancon
Melancon, Ivan De Jesus, Stolmy Pimentel, & Jerry Sands were traded for Hanrahan and Holt
Which boils down to Lowrie for Holt

I guess Holt was cheaper, and was able to play all over the field more than Mr. Glass. Would have been interesting to see exactly where Lowrie played with the Sox, SS in 2012 over Aviles, 3B over Middlebrooks? 2013 would be 3B, WMB sucked then, even moreso in 2014. And 2015 brings us to Fat Panda. Ew, forgot just how bad the Sox have been at 3B...So in my theoretical world, Lowrie manages to stay healthy (HAH!) and the Sox don't sign a corpulent 3B to replace him, then the value tilts in Lowrie's favor.

ETA:
And the Sox still have Jenny Dell on the sidelines as WMB doesn't have that extra time to romance her.
   14. Jose Needs an Absurd Ukulele Concert Posted: December 03, 2019 at 11:15 AM (#5905184)
And the Sox still have Jenny Dell on the sidelines as WMB doesn't have that extra time to romance her.


This is a point against Lowrie not for him.
   15. villageidiom Posted: December 03, 2019 at 12:45 PM (#5905224)
Lowrie and Kyle Weiland were taded for Melancon
Melancon, Ivan De Jesus, Stolmy Pimentel, & Jerry Sands were traded for Hanrahan and Holt
Which boils down to Lowrie for Holt

2 years of Lowrie for 6 years of Holt
   16. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: December 03, 2019 at 01:18 PM (#5905254)
2 years of Lowrie for 6 years of Holt


Isn't it 3 and 7? 2012-14 for Lowrie & 2013-19 for Holt?

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