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Sox Therapy — Where Thinking Red Sox Fans Obsess about the Sox Monday, July 03, 2023The Case for Doing NothingWith the trade deadline just a few weeks away there is much chatter building about what the Red Sox should be looking to do. Some want the *NSYNC deadline approach (“buy buy buy”) and some want a Barenaked Ladies approach (“sell sell sell”). But I am here to talk about the less exciting but potentially more lucrative “don’t do a damned thing” approach. Let’s start with this. The Red Sox are a flawed team. The holes are obvious and have been since the winter. The pitching is thin (and Garrett Whitlock’s status doesn’t help that), the middle infield is a horror show and just generally the depth on this team is insufficient. After a disappointing in every way 2022 a lot of things are moving in the right direction in 2023. The Sox seem to have found in no particular order; A potential Ace starter They have done those things while locking up their stud third baseman (who is admittedly having a bit of a down year by his lofty standards) and seeing their starting right fielder return to form. There are nits to be picked within the “findings” I listed but the fact is these guys have all shown that they can do a job. On top of that the news from the minor leagues has been almost uniformly good with a couple of exceptions (injuries to Bleis and especially troublingly Mata). Add in the potential return of a pretty darned good middle infielder in Trevor Story and with Marcelo Mayer and Nick Yorke looming the future is bright. Let’s talk about Story for a minute, and yeah I’m jumping all over the place here but deal with it. There has been a lot of complaint about Story and him “not being a shortstop” but I think this may be misguided. Story has been a well regarded defensive shortstop over the course of his career. Much has been made that he doesn’t have the arm for it anymore but just as we see pitchers rebound to show a return to previous high velocities after arm surgery might we see something similar with Story. If he can be an adequate defensive shortstop and return to his offensive form as a Rockie with a 112 OPS+ let’s recognize what a HUGE upgrade that is for this team. This is currently a .500 team with their shortstops combining for an OPS+ of 75 and almost comically bad defense. So in theory they are close enough that a seller’s approach is probably unwise. Having said all that the pitching is terribly thin. While the Sox are only 3 1/2 games out of a Wild Card spot (with the Yanks, Toronto and Angels ahead of them) does this team feel like it’s capable of a run? I’ll be honest, I don’t think so. I feel like the Sox are not just one but two good to very good starters away from being able to consider that. So I don’t really want to see them going overboard on buying right now either. The problem with buying is that you maybe get close enough to make a run or even make a playoff spot but give up potentially useful long term pieces. And all of this gets to the point I’m kind of trying to think about making (like I said, all over the place here). I always find the “buyer” and “seller” idea a bit nonsense in a good year. Every team should be in “buy” mode at all times. That doesn’t mean you buy for right now, maybe you buy for the long term. If the right deal comes up you do it. But selling for the sake of selling has always seemed dumb to me. “Let’s unload Duvall, Jansen, Martin and Paxton” is a great idea if you are dealing with a video game or a fantasy team. But if you are dealing with the real world there IS value in mediocrity. If the Sox can come home at 83-79 and maybe squeak into 4th place I think the fan base will feel a lot better. Trading all those guys and getting “prospects” in return sounds like a great idea but the reality is that you are NOT getting prospects in return. You are getting guys who play in the minor leagues. The Sox have had the unfortunate opportunity to be in a seller’s mindset a few times in recent years. Their deadline acquisitions have been; Reese McGuire The reality is that the Sox are not likely to hit a home run with any deadline deals. Jansen? Craig Kimbrel was traded by the Cubs a couple of years ago at the deadline. The White Sox got Nick Madrigal (88 OPS+, 0.8 WAR this year) and Codi Heuer (7.82 ERA in AAA) for Kimbrel who was having a hell of a year up to that point. I’m a firm believer in the idea that success breeds success. If you create a winning organization it is a lot easier to win on a regular basis. Give Brayan Bello a taste of a decent team (and for the love of god get the guy who throws a lot of groundballs a decent freakin’ shortstop). Give Triston Casas and Jarren Duran role models. Don’t just say “well we can’t win it all so screw it” say “let’s take a step forward.” 78 wins last year, 83 this year, 88 in 2024, 93 in 2025, etc… The Sox have done just this in recent years. 71 That was the 2014-2018 stretch. I’m not suggesting that 108 is in the semi-near future but 93 and a division title or three certainly can be. Having said all of this obviously Chaim Bloom should be working. If he gets a good offer, particularly for a player under club control like the Mariners did with Luis Castillo last year then yeah you do it. But don’t just blow it up. Get better. Send the message that the Boston Red Sox with four World Series titles in 20 years are a team about winning and this last place bullshit is not acceptable. The time for breaking down is past. The Red Sox should be making progress both figuratively (Casas, Bello, et al…) and literally (win more than you won last year). Jose is an Absurd Sultan
Posted: July 03, 2023 at 10:21 AM | 30 comment(s)
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1. DarrenI agree that having Story at SS would be a huge improvement over what we currently have, even if he's a shell of his former self. But the case for him being a good shortstop is a tougher sell. Yes, he was well regarded in his time in Colorado, but by his last season there, his arm strength had already cratered. Last year in Boston, he played an excellent 2B but his arm strength dropped even further into the 8th percentile. The Red Sox have explained that the surgery was for a new elbow issue, not the one that had previously diminished his throwing ability. So will the surgery only restore him to where he was when he left Colorado?
The other concern is that Story didn't have the TJ surgery that usually restores pitchers to full (or higher!) velocity. So it's hard to say what he will look like when he returns.
In these situations, it's a little tricky because us "thinking fans" (LOL) tend to try to put ourselves in the shoes of the GM/front office. But we're also the fans. As a fan, I actually agree that I prefer the team to try to win even if they don't have a great chance of making the playoffs. But if this team's pitching remains so thin, I don't think it's worth it. Also, in terms of building gradually, guys like Duvall and Paxton are gone at the end of the year, and the latter is a ticking timebomb. If you can deal them and get back something interesting, you probably should. Heck, even if you're going for it this year, there's a good case for trading Duvall if you can get something back.
I agree with that. But the problem I have is "something" is pretty vague and as a general rule you get "nothing" more than "something." Don't get me wrong, if someone offers the Sox a top 100 prospect for Duvall, yeah I'm all for it. But this isn't a used car situation where the Sox should sell Duvall for $1,500 or best offer.
1) We should trade Duvall. I'm not saying that because we should throw in the towel on the season. I'm saying this because if you don't think we should throw in the towel, he should be gone. He was Babe Ruth for about a week. Since he came back from injury:
20 games (17 starts)
74 PAs
.152/.243/.258
BB/K ratio is 6/27
1 HR, 4 RBIs, 10-for-66.
The team's best lineup most night is probably an outfield of Yoshida-Duran-Verdugo, DH is Turner, 1B is Casas.
If another team actually thinks Duvall will help them, we should drive Duvall to the airport. He has nothing to do with the future of the franchise, and nothing much to do with its present, either.
2) In terms of the return on a rental, fans always think their team can get Jeff Bagwell for Larry Andersen. Typically, the best you are going to get is Valdez and Abreu for Christian Vazquez.
The real question for Chaim Bloom, if and when he decides to do a bit of a fire sale, is to figure out if the organization would rather take lottery tickets (high-ceiling, low-floor guys in the lower minors) or organizational depth (Abreu and Valdez types, typically in the upper minors, who have a decent chance of making the majors as a reliever or a utility infielder, but a low ceiling.
Generally speaking, I think Boston's organization lacks prospects with blue-chip upside - but seeing the team's struggles to put out competence at shortstop, and the increasing frequency of "bullpen games" is making me think they also need some upper-minors depth of guys who can actually fill in competently for a few weeks or a few starts if needed.
3) In terms of Paxton, if we are going to trade him (and I support that idea), then we need to make a companion trade or two to pick up some veteran arms who can start games at something higher than Kluber levels. Otherwise, we should just wave the white flag, because we'll be starting Pivetta and Kluber. I'm not upset if we mail in the season - but we literally don't have enough starters right now to fill out a 5-man rotation
On Paxton I wouldn't trade him unless I really liked the return. You need him for this year just to have some level of competence and you at least take a shot at signing him for next year.
I would push hard on his agent and try and get an extension done ASAP. If there is any goodwill from Paxton for being paid to rehab now is the time to know. And if Paxton does not want to discuss an extension, trade him.
In the pen, I know his choices are becoming limited, but he seems to select Ort and others in high-leverage situations when he doesn't have to.
Of course, I'm sure there's a lot we don't know, but it is hard to follow what his plan is in a lot of these cases.
The bullpen I think is just a function of not having a ton of options out there. A lot was made of him going to Ort on Tuesday but after Whitlock left the game Sunday after an inning it was basically their second bullpen game in three days and Pivetta was likely not available.
- Chris Sale would get hurt again
- Whitlock and Houck would get hurt
- Pivetta and Kluber would be so bad that both would be removed from the rotation
- the team would basically go the entire 1st half of the season with no good answers at 2B or SS, including consistently terrible defense
- Devers would have a pretty slow first two months
- Casas would have an OPS+ around 90 at the break
I'd be amazed that they were both above .500, and only about three games out of the WC. So what has gone a lot better than expected?
- Yoshida has been better than most expected
- Bello and Paxton have become one of the best 1-2 starters in the league. (This is the big thing, right? They aren't just pitching well - they are pitching deep into games in an era when that doesn't happen a lot. Bello's last six starts, for example: 6,7,7,6.2,7,7)
- A lot of guys have been at the top of their expected range. Duran hasn't been great since his early hot start - but he's giving .270 with some doubles and average defense. Turner has added a little power lately, and he gets on base. Wong has been better at catcher than I expected - some power, and he throws out runners. Verdugo has slumped again lately, but on the whole, his season looks a little more like 2020 than 2021-2022 (that's a good thing).
- They are 16-11 against the AL East this year, including 15-4 against NY, BAL, and TOR. (They are 1-7 against Tampa.) They are 7-0 against Toronto, who currently has the final WC slot, making those wins more valuable than against some NL team or something. It may be that the team thus far is a little bit like when the NBA 3-point shooting competition has a guy who isn't making that many shots - but he keeps hitting the "moneyball" worth 2 points. If the Red Sox keep crushing it against TOR and NYY, maybe they stick around most of the season, simply because it keeps the necessary wins number around 86?
I mean, they also potentially have a playoff rotation leading with Bello, Crawford, and Ort. And the most likely scenario is they have a playoff rotation leading with Sitton, Couch, and Watch.
Would you rather keep Paxton with the hope that the Sox make the post season, and go a round or two, or would you rather they sell him off and get some quality pieces for '24 and beyond? Or do you not have any confidence that Paxton et al would bring any meaningful players to the team? I am totally fine with pursuing the greater good and selling off whoever is on a short contract to benefit future years. It's interesting reading all of the 'we could have magic this year' viewpoints. Completely opposite to how I am approaching this season.
The problem is that is not likely the choice. The choices are likely keep Paxton or sell him and get some guy who play 80 MLB games over 4 seasons and never amounts to anything. Look, if they can get a legitimate prospect of some kind for Paxton it would be negligent not to consider that. But just giving him up for, well look at the list in the original post, doesn’t really appeal to me.
Duvall, OTOH - well worth taking a flyer on a younger player.
I am not particularly concerned with making the playoffs in 2023. If it happens it will be very exciting, of course. But I do want to enjoy watching games in 2023, and I'd rather watch Paxton rather than seeing more of these weird bullpen games. I don't think Pivetta is actually better at pitching innings 3-7 than he is 1-5, that pixie dust will run out. I am for limiting Bernadino>Ort and similar patterns to start games, and Paxton helps with that far more than I believe trading him will help the 2024 make the playoffs.
Tampa 44-35
Boston 42-35
To be clear, I am not saying the two teams or organizations are of similar quality. Right now, Tampa's SS is Wander Franco, and ours is Wander Aimlessly. But can we agree that, as of right now, the idea of Chaim Bloom trading away James Paxton is off the table?
For one thing, they are squarely in the playoff hunt - I've been skeptical, but I acknowledge that NY and Toronto have not been as good as I thought they'd be, and Boston is (currently) better than I thought they'd be. Second, if we don't start Paxton, who is taking his spot in the rotation? As it is, these bullpen games are now part of the schedule. Sunday, Boston is starting Tayler Scott, a 31-year-old scrap heap pitcher we purchased from the Dodgers two weeks ago. The last time he started a game was in 2019 for Seattle. Since then, he has been a reliever for eight different teams - eight teams since 2019. So until some guys start coming back from the IL, we don't have five SPs as it is.
And let's think about Pivetta for a second. There were times last year where he looked like one of the best starters in the league - but by the end of the season, he was what he has always been: A durable, cheap slightly below average starting pitcher. Inconsistent within a season, but consistent between seasons.
He's been a reliever for a while now, although he was initially being used for garbage time, one inning at a time. More recently, he has clearly been used strategically as a "bulk inning" reliever who follows the opener, and then is given 3-4 days off. Cora appears to be using Murphy and Walter in a similar way.
Here is Pivetta in the six relief appearances where he has pitched at least three innings:
21 IP
31 Ks
5 BBs
12 hits
3.33 ERA
His walk rate is down; his K rate is way up; he is giving up fewer hits...his main asset has been durability, but maybe his fastball is faster, maybe he's ditched one of his off-speed pitches, etc., by knowing he is pitching 3-4 innings every four days? I think it is probably fluky, but his emergence in this role is a big part of what has kept the wheels on the pitching staff over the last several weeks.
Do we know who is slated to come in after Scott gives up 3 runs in 1.1IP?
I mean, why not start Wincowski and see if he can give at least two solid innings, then follow him w/Murphy? Scott would be still available to come in if the game gets out of hand, but starting him is all but inviting the Sox to start out in a hole . . .
This post sounds whiny, it's not meant to be!
Winckowski, 7/6 2 IP
Martin 7/6 .2 IP
Murphy 7/4 3.2 IP
Jansen 7/5 1 IP
Rodriguez 6/30, 1 IP
Doesn't seem to be much reason to involve any other pitchers unless you can't piece it together with these guys. Starting Scott reminds me of starting Ort as an opener. Whatever, I'm sure it will all work out.
Verdugo: 292/351/475
Duran: 367/400/611
Then there's Wong. He seems to have settled in as a low-OBP hitter with a little pop and good defense. Jury's still out.
I am happy to have been wrong about them in the last month! I am surprised that Duran's lack of plate discipline hasn't caught up to him yet (he's got 5 BBs is 95 PAs since June 2nd, but is BABIP of .470 during that period probably explains a lot of it).
Verdugo's production during this period is obviously a lot more sustainable (his BABIP is only .314 since June 2nd). It's pretty simple: If you've got an outfield of Verdugo, Duran, and Yoshida hitting well; Turner hitting well; and Casas doing his thing (since May 2nd, he's .269/.354/.450 in 195 PA - except for a few months of Schwarber in late 2021, this is already the best hitting at 1B we've had since Hanley Ramirez in 2016!), then the offense is going to work.
I think the idea of the crappy opener is to create a platoon advantage in the first inning - presumably, against the best hitters on the other team. The opposing manager isn't going to pull his best hitters to get a platoon advantage for one inning. But it theoretically maximizes the chance that you'll get out of that inning with minimal damage, and then you've got the piggyback bulk inning reliever du jour (Murphy, Pivetta, or Walter) to try to get them through the 5th inning. It is sort of working.
Also: I just saw today that Corey Kluber has given up 17 home runs in 55 innings this year. I don't know how I try to frame it, but was this on pace for some kind of record? He was remarkably bad this year.
Also: Between Kluber, Ort, Garza, Brasier, and Bleier, they have pitched about 137 innings this year - that's a lot of innings. Their combined ERA is...6.65. They've given up 32 home runs in 137 innings.
It makes you think that, if the team can just get consistent defense at 2B and SS, get some combination of Sale, Whitlock and/or Houck back in time to help a little bit, and then just replace the Kluber, Garza, Ort, etc with average relief pitching...they could actually be in this for the duration.
I think Wong will turn out to be just as good as Vazquez was.
indeed. Last night they got another "combined quality start" which as a phrase makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit but given the goal is to get to the late innings with a chance to win . . . it worked (again) last night. Sox stole one last night for sure. Another full team effort.
A very mixed bag. Wins are looking good, as are Verdugo's WAR, Devers walks and 2Bs, and Yoshida's BA. The two that are really up in the air right now are Whitlock and Sale. I could see both or neither reaching those numbers.
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