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   101. JC in DC Posted: August 02, 2006 at 08:38 PM (#2123598)
Posada is much better than Mirabelli, which is all that counts right now.
   102. The Original SJ Posted: August 02, 2006 at 08:39 PM (#2123599)
If you want to talk about who is the better player, fine. Just don't limit the discussion to the merits of your guy to the exclusion of everything else.

Um okay, whatever.

76. Johnny Hot Tub (SJ!) Posted: August 02, 2006 at 02:25 PM (#2123407)

Yeah, Posada is much better at blocking the plate this year. Still far behind Varitek though.

I think that was the only area that Varitek was better than Posada, skills wise.


I suppose "everything else" is exclusionary.
   103. Nasty Nate Posted: August 02, 2006 at 08:44 PM (#2123605)
No, I'm just correct, while you've been brainwashed by two years of media Red Sox ballwashing and Jimmy Fallon movies.


i havent seen fever pitch (or Taxi). My opinion of the brawl has not changed once in the 2 years since then. A-rod's lucky the mob swarmed.
   104. covelli chris p Posted: August 02, 2006 at 08:46 PM (#2123609)
the bottom line with that brawl was that arod was ######## about getting hit with a bronson arroyo curveball.
   105. JC in DC Posted: August 02, 2006 at 08:46 PM (#2123610)
I already said Posada has bad hands, a critical defiency in a catcher. That just went right over your head, like you just ignored it.


SJ: How dare you ignore this pronouncement from Kevin! Posada has bad hands. And remember, Kevin also pronounced that he values defense in catching a great deal. In fact, he values it directly proportional to the inability of the Red Sox catcher to hit.
   106. JC in DC Posted: August 02, 2006 at 08:50 PM (#2123613)
JC, take a pill, will you?


Is that Manny's workout regimen, or Big Steroid's?
   107. cseadog Posted: August 02, 2006 at 08:53 PM (#2123618)
Having praised Tek's receiving ,I'll now criticize. He picked that fight with A-Rod and cheap-shotted him.

I also think his plate blocking technique of dropping the leg just as the runner slides is borderline dirty as it could cause an injury to the runner. I'm surprised that this has not yet been addressed by opposing players. I suspect that payback may be forthcoming to a now vulnerable knee.
   108. Sean McNally Posted: August 02, 2006 at 08:59 PM (#2123623)
Why should I respond to something that's so patently silly?


It's silly that Posada's a more valuable offensive player? Call Warner Wolffe, and let's go to the video tape:

Stat  Posada   'Tek    Edge
Games   1145    965    JP
At Bats 3843   3178    JP
AVG     .269   .272    JV
OBP     .375   .350    JP
SLG     .469   .456    JP
OPS+     121    107    JP
RC/27   6.12    5.54   JV


Now of course, I'm cherry-picking random stats that no one uses, right? Also, for reference, this is from BB-Ref, so its only through 2005 and leaving out Posada's above average 2006 and Varitek's mediocre year.
   109. Sean McNally Posted: August 02, 2006 at 09:02 PM (#2123625)
I also think his plate blocking technique of dropping the leg just as the runner slides is borderline dirty as it could cause an injury to the runner. I'm surprised that this has not yet been addressed by opposing players. I suspect that payback may be forthcoming to a now vulnerable knee.


I think Varitek's knee is much more vulnerable to damage due to his tremendous bodunkadunk and less so to scoring runners.
   110. Sean McNally Posted: August 02, 2006 at 09:08 PM (#2123631)
Now cherrypick passed balls, McNally.


Well, I'm not sure how passed balls is a measure of a guy's offensive production, but here we go...

Varitek - 88 PB in 5794 innings
Posada - 97 PB in 6828 innings (0.0142062 per inning)

For those without a slide rule, Jorge actually has fewer passed balls per inning than Varitek, although statistically its a wash. Posada has 0.0142062 per inning, while Varitek has 0.0151881 per inning.

I'm too lazy to count up team wild pitches for the past nine seasons, but I'd guess that's a virtual wash too.
   111. JC in DC Posted: August 02, 2006 at 09:11 PM (#2123638)
Are you the biggest idiot ever? Do you have anything to add other than this stupidity? Why don't you try and respond to the points made in #...?


This only works when you're replying to someone who's not argued anything substantive, as I have, and when you yourself are not talking out of your ass, but you are. Your assertion about Posada's hands is simply that: an assertion by an exceedingly biased observer who's never shown the ability to be discriminating on things "Red Sox". (See your vast over-evaluation of Pedroia, among many other such reaches.)

Nearly everyone here, including Sean, has the ability to concede points, much as SJ did above (twice). We're waiting for you to be so objective before we accept your assfart pronouncement as anything more than that.
   112. Darren Posted: August 02, 2006 at 09:13 PM (#2123640)
Let's see, it's August and Yankees fans are shooting off their mouths on Sox Therapy. It must be that time of year where their team stops playing way below expectations and their management uses a ton of money to paper over their mistakes.

Look out everybody, the Yankees may actually win 95 games with their huge resources.
   113. Srul Itza Posted: August 02, 2006 at 09:17 PM (#2123647)
cherrypick passed balls

Is that some kind of sexual innuendo?
   114. JC in DC Posted: August 02, 2006 at 09:17 PM (#2123648)
Kevin: See page 1. It was there that I gave up on expecting anything more from you than the comparison of Mirabelli's career stats to Varitek's down half-year.
   115. Sean McNally Posted: August 02, 2006 at 09:19 PM (#2123651)
Let's see, it's August and Yankees fans are shooting off their mouths on Sox Therapy. It must be that time of year where their team stops playing way below expectations and their management uses a ton of money to paper over their mistakes.

Look out everybody, the Yankees may actually win 95 games with their huge resources.


Ahh, the sweet smell of Yankees-Lite being cranky about spending money. When do you make your claim on Lieberthal or Javy Lopez.

I guess the fact that Varitek had to catch Wakefield in the late 90's while Posada caught fastball/sinker/slider pitchers is a wash too, McNally.

Great analysis there.


If you want to go through his game logs, be my guest. You just asked about passed balls and I delivered. A simple "thank you" would have been too much?
   116. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: August 02, 2006 at 09:21 PM (#2123653)
I guess nobody disagrees that Posada has a better goatee. Seems about right, as it's so self-evident.
   117. The Original SJ Posted: August 02, 2006 at 09:34 PM (#2123669)
Well, its a huge pissing match. IT MUST BE BASEBALL SEASON! I love it!
   118. Sean McNally Posted: August 02, 2006 at 09:37 PM (#2123672)
You know what I love, SJ? 5'4" walk-on wideouts!
   119. Guapo Posted: August 02, 2006 at 09:39 PM (#2123673)
Look out everybody, the Yankees may actually win 95 games with their huge resources.

The better the fans, the huger the resources.
   120. Darren Posted: August 02, 2006 at 09:39 PM (#2123674)
Seriously, McNally, your gang's timing is pretty funny here. Your team finally pulls back into the race, after months of underachieving, and all of a sudden you're all over on Sox Therapy shooting your mouths off. And it happened last year too.

There's got to be a better use for your time, such as actually adding some content to Count the Ring$$$$$$$$ (see I changed it to dollar signs to indicate the money the Yanks spend ha ha, I'm hilarious). Do you know that when that blog (and others) started, people on Sox Therapy started giving me #### about how they were jealous of how much good, quality stuff was being posted there, as compared to Sox Therapy (and I agreed). And now, after a couple of incredibly hot months, you've had three threads since May. No analysis of the deadline deals? No opinions on the emergence of Melky? Must be too busy debating whether Mirabelli's a .650 (OPS) hitter or .750.
   121. Sean McNally Posted: August 02, 2006 at 09:44 PM (#2123684)
Seriously, McNally, your gang's timing is pretty funny here. Your team finally pulls back into the race, after months of underachieving, and all of a sudden you're all over on Sox Therapy shooting your mouths off. And it happened last year too.

There's got to be a better use for your time, such as actually adding some content to Count the Ring$$$$$$$$ (see I changed it to dollar signs to indicate the money the Yanks spend ha ha, I'm hilarious). Do you know that when that blog (and others) started, people on Sox Therapy started giving me #### about how they were jealous of how much good, quality stuff was being posted there, as compared to Sox Therapy (and I agreed). And now, after a couple of incredibly hot months, you've had three threads since May. No analysis of the deadline deals? No opinions on the emergence of Melky? Must be too busy debating whether Mirabelli's a .650 (OPS) hitter or .750.


Touche... I stink.
   122. Darren Posted: August 02, 2006 at 09:48 PM (#2123691)
No, you're supposed to argue... Come on, do it.... Jeter sucks!.... Nothing?

Well now I feel like a jerk.
   123. Srul Itza Posted: August 02, 2006 at 09:49 PM (#2123695)
The problem for the Sox is that both the Eastern Race and the Wild Card are so tight, a game or two could be the difference. The downgrade from what Varitek/Melvinbelli is likely to give you, to what Dougie/Huckleberry is likely to give you, if it runs on for 6 weeks, could be just that.

Varitek's AB/OPS, Month by Month:

Apr--72/720
May--74/748
Jun--80/713
Jul--78/787

Big boost from June to July

Here is Mirabelli:

Apr--22/535
May--26/472
Jun--26/462
July-28/844

Kev is right, in a few at bats, any damn thing is possible. But over 6 weeks? Playing full time? I don't see it.

As I say, with a race this close, even a one to two game downgrade could mean no playoffs.
   124. Darren Posted: August 02, 2006 at 09:54 PM (#2123700)
Huckaby is just awfullll. It's going to suck when he plays.
   125. The Original SJ Posted: August 02, 2006 at 09:55 PM (#2123701)
I take responsibility for Count The Rings lack of postings.

SG's RLYW is just so good, and everyone who would read CTR would read this, it is sort of pointless.

I respect what Sox Therapy has done, and continues to do. although I see Sox Therapy as a group of Red Sox postings, not a Sox fans only sort of thing, that is what SOSH is.
   126. The Original SJ Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:06 PM (#2123712)
Well, for a while, I really don't post on the mainland to much anymore.

The site sort of split in two, and I sided with the lounge islanders.
   127. Sean McNally Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:06 PM (#2123713)
Well, where have you been, sj? Why the sudden interest in Sox Therapy today?

Darren is right. You guys have been in hiding all year, and only come out to gloat when things are finally starting to go well.


I can't speak for SJ, but this has been the first time in a looooong time where I haven't been slammed at work. Damned transportation issues.
   128. The Original SJ Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:07 PM (#2123714)
Oh, and it isn't like we came back from 50 back. The lead was never bigger than 4 games all season.
   129. Sean McNally Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:09 PM (#2123720)
The site sort of split in two, and I sided with the lounge islanders.


The island of misfit toys?
   130. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:09 PM (#2123721)
42 of Varitek's passed balls through 2005 were thrown by Tim Wakefield.
   131. The Original SJ Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:09 PM (#2123722)
Oh, and I recently got promoted, back to a desk job, which increases my time to point out how inferior your catcher is than mine.
   132. The Original SJ Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:13 PM (#2123732)
Nah, it makes some sense if you know what he does.
   133. Sean McNally Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:14 PM (#2123734)
Geez, what a coincidence. The Yankees tie for first on the same day that McNally's workload decreases. On the first of August, no less.


I work in Washington, what do you want from me?
   134. Josh Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:14 PM (#2123735)
I like it when the Yankee boys come over. It tends to keep levski out :D
   135. Sean McNally Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:16 PM (#2123738)
By the way this is just like old times! Whheeeeeeeee! Nostalgia!!
   136. and Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:18 PM (#2123739)
I work in Washington, what do you want from me?

Lower taxes, better services, world peace and cold beer. Hop to.
   137. and Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:18 PM (#2123741)
By the way, I-Rod scoffs at this discussion.
   138. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:18 PM (#2123742)
Larry, where did you get that from?

I have a complete play-by-play database from 1974-2005 on my computer.
   139. The Original SJ Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:23 PM (#2123747)
Heh.
   140. JC in DC Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:23 PM (#2123748)
For what it's worth, I'm over here simply b/c things have gone well for NY and poorly for Boston and I like to gloat.
   141. Darren Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:27 PM (#2123749)
Lower taxes, better services, world peace and cold beer. Hop to.

And a pony.
   142. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:28 PM (#2123752)
In stopped in because Sean told me to read one of his posts. I just saw the passed ball thing and took the initiative to find out how many of Varitek's passed balls are Wakefield.
   143. Darren Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:29 PM (#2123753)
SJ,

When are we going to get that beer?
   144. Darren Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:30 PM (#2123754)
Larry,

You're grammer is teh suck.
   145. JC in DC Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:34 PM (#2123760)
Larry,

You're grammer is teh suck.


You don't like "In stopped in?" I like it. It reminds me of "Live and Let Die."

"And in this ever-changing world, in which we live in..." That's great stuff.
   146. Darren Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:37 PM (#2123763)
I respect what Sox Therapy has done, and continues to do. although I see Sox Therapy as a group of Red Sox postings, not a Sox fans only sort of thing, that is what SOSH is.

I sure hope so. I like RLYW, but I don't like the tiny little window for comments. Grumpy, you've got to change that.
   147. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:39 PM (#2123766)
Larry,

You're grammer is teh suck.


I worked until 1am last night and had to wake up at 5am to catch a bus for a job interview in Harrisburg at 1pm. And then had to wait around for a bus to go home. And it was 100 degrees, and felt like 110. A a ####### security guard wouldn't let me nap in the food court in the morning.

So cut me some slack.
   148. Darren Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:41 PM (#2123770)
Just took another look at RLYW. Man, SG should crosspost all that stuff over here. It's good stuff.
   149. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:41 PM (#2123771)
I sure hope so. I like RLYW, but I don't like the tiny little window for comments. Grumpy, you've got to change that.

I suppose I could just use the Blogger commenting system, though I like the IP banning Haloscan offers.
   150. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:42 PM (#2123774)
Kevin,
What about throwing out baserunners? That's a wash at best, and this year Posada has been way better, something I really think he has improved.
   151. Srul Itza Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:43 PM (#2123775)
Why the sudden interest in Sox Therapy today?

Darren is right. You guys have been in hiding all year, and only come out to gloat when things are finally starting to go well.


Well, the Big Papi thread after his walk off got a lot of play too from non-Sox fans. A giving credit where credit is due kind of thing.

So it is not just schadenfreude that draws people.
   152. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:45 PM (#2123777)
BTW, I think Kevin is right that Posada has less than great hands as a catcher. I am curious about whether passed balls have all that much of an impact on the course of a season.
   153. Darren Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:45 PM (#2123778)
I worked until 1am last night and had to wake up at 5am to catch a bus for a job interview in Harrisburg at 1pm. And then had to wait around for a bus to go home. And it was 100 degrees, and felt like 110. A a ####### security guard wouldn't let me nap in the food court in the morning.

There should be a ":00 " after "1" and "5." There's no subject in the second sentence. You put too many "a's" at the beginning of the third sentence.
   154. The Original SJ Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:47 PM (#2123780)
Darren, we can have that beer anytime. Should you be retired soon? Are you going to get a house in Florida? Because I have a couple weeks down there next spring.
   155. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:47 PM (#2123781)
The guys at RLYW really do great work. I love that site. I think it might be part of the reason that CTR is neglected. Whoever said there should be more crossposting is right, because I find some of the commenters over there a bit annoying (there's one person who keeps posting under my name just to be a jerk!).
   156. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:48 PM (#2123783)
*shoots Darren*
   157. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:49 PM (#2123784)
The guys at RLYW really do great work. I love that site. I think it might be part of the reason that CTR is neglected. Whoever said there should be more crossposting is right, because I find some of the commenters over there a bit annoying (there's one person who keeps posting under my name just to be a jerk!).

Email or IM SG or me next time that happens. We'll ban them.
   158. Darren Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:49 PM (#2123785)
Getting away from torturing Larry for a moment, I think Posada is a terrible catcher. And this comes mostly from watching him catch Clemens. He seemed very bad at catching foul tips, and he was constantly going out to the mound between pitches. It seemed, to me anyways, that that really messed with Clemens's concentration. That's all speculative, of course.
   159. The Original SJ Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:51 PM (#2123789)
Darren, anyone who has ever caught a game above little league will tell you catching foul tips is 99% luck
   160. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:52 PM (#2123791)
Well, I'm going to turn on MLB.tv and watch the game as I fall into slumber. Hopefully falling asleep just before they blow a lead.
   161. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:53 PM (#2123792)
Wait, that didn't say what I meant to say. I mean, if they lose, I hope I don't have to see it.
   162. Darren Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:55 PM (#2123795)
Lar,

How'd the interview go?
   163. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:55 PM (#2123796)
I can't believe we've gotten this far into this juvenile debate and no Sox fan has brought up the "biggest choke of all time" line. Props for that.
   164. Darren Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:57 PM (#2123798)
Darren, we can have that beer anytime. Should you be retired soon? Are you going to get a house in Florida? Because I have a couple weeks down there next spring.

No way I'm retiring yet. I just got a great gig as a model. You can see my picture in the 'Join My Class Action Lawsuit' ad.
   165. Darren Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:58 PM (#2123799)
Plus, don't forget the Yankees pulled off the biggest choke of all time. A total gaspipe job.
   166. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:59 PM (#2123800)
Well, I'm off to my championship softball game. Can't wait for that five game series.
   167. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: August 02, 2006 at 10:59 PM (#2123801)
Lar,

How'd the interview go?


I dunno. I'm not good at interviews, and I guess this didn't go horribly, but I don't think I'm very good at selling myself.

I can't believe we've gotten this far into this juvenile debate and no Sox fan has brought up the "biggest choke of all time" line. Props for that.

Statistically speaking, that would be the 2003 NLCS.
   168. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: August 02, 2006 at 11:01 PM (#2123803)
So what's the best regular season Yankees/Red Sox game ever? The Jeter dive into the stands/Curt Leskanic meltdown game, or the Bill Mueller walkoff brawl game?
   169. _ Posted: August 02, 2006 at 11:02 PM (#2123804)
"And in this ever-changing world, in which we live in..."

FWIW, it's "in which we're livin," which is still bad lyrics but neverthless gramatically OK.
   170. Darren Posted: August 02, 2006 at 11:02 PM (#2123805)
I dunno. I'm not good at interviews, and I guess this didn't go horribly, but I don't think I'm very good at selling myself.

Don't sell yourself short. You're an incredible whore! :)
   171. The Original SJ Posted: August 02, 2006 at 11:06 PM (#2123807)
you guys want to carry this over into the lounge?
   172. The Original SJ Posted: August 02, 2006 at 11:07 PM (#2123810)
uh, i meant the chatter?
   173. OlePerfesser Posted: August 03, 2006 at 12:23 PM (#2124745)
You can see my picture in the 'Join My Class Action Lawsuit' ad.

That is an obvious lie, Darren, because that guy has "I'm a Yankee fan, dammit!" written ALL over him.
   174. Famous Original Joe C Posted: August 03, 2006 at 01:14 PM (#2124790)
So what's the best regular season Yankees/Red Sox game ever? The Jeter dive into the stands/Curt Leskanic meltdown game, or the Bill Mueller walkoff brawl game?

I'd throw this game into the mix as well. Probably falls behind the two you mentioned, but it deserves a place in the argument.
   175. Wally Posted: August 03, 2006 at 02:15 PM (#2124846)
What about this game?
   176. covelli chris p Posted: August 03, 2006 at 02:45 PM (#2124890)
wally wins. that game was awesome.
   177. The Original SJ Posted: August 03, 2006 at 02:53 PM (#2124902)
Yeah, Wally was close, but I think there were more players doing some incredible things in the Jeter faceplant game. Also, there were many more dramatic swing in that game
   178. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: August 03, 2006 at 03:17 PM (#2124937)
Oh man, that Clemens/Pedro game WAS amazing.
   179. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: August 03, 2006 at 03:19 PM (#2124941)
I remember that 12-11 game and it was a brutal and crappily played affair. It may have had entertainment value, but no way is it one of the best.
   180. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: August 03, 2006 at 03:58 PM (#2124995)
Pedro's one hitter in Yankee Stadium in September, 99 is my favorite game.
   181. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: August 03, 2006 at 04:01 PM (#2124999)
Courtesy of The Onion and Sox fans amusement:

Experts: 'Derek Jeter Probably Didn't Need To Jump To Throw That Guy Out'
August 3, 2006 | Onion Sports


BRISTOL, CT—Baseball experts agreed Sunday that Derek Jeter, who fielded a routine ground ball during a regular-season game in which the Yankees were leading by five runs and then threw it to first base using one of his signature leaps, did not have to do that to record the out. "If it had been a hard-hit grounder in the hole or even a slow dribbler he had to charge, that would've been one thing," analyst John Kruk said during a broadcast of Baseball Tonight. "But when it's hit right to him by [Devil Rays first-baseman] Greg Norton, a guy who has no stolen bases and is still suffering the effects of a hamstring injury sustained earlier this year… Well, that's a different story." Jeter threw out Norton by 15 feet and pumped his fist in celebration at the end of the play.
   182. Sean McNally Posted: August 03, 2006 at 08:57 PM (#2125738)
I kind of enjoy Moose's near perfecto in Fenway myself.
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