BBTF's Sox Therapy Discussion :: Which 5’8” 2B? (Non-Tender deadline)

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1. Randomly Fluctuating Defensive Metric Posted: December 12, 2006 at 02:46 AM (#2258445)

I'm pretty sure Giles would rake at Fenway.

2. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 12, 2006 at 02:49 AM (#2258450)

Could pick up Giles and stick him at third when Mike Lowell's corpse reappears.

3. Darren

Posted: December 12, 2006 at 02:54 AM (#2258455)

Yeah, but Giles would have to agree to join the team and wait around for a couple months. No way he'd sign without a position. I also think he's probably headed to SD to play with his bro.

4. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: December 12, 2006 at 03:15 AM (#2258482)

Pedroia at 2B

5. Darren

Posted: December 12, 2006 at 03:15 AM (#2258484)

I don't hate Pedroia, I think that with another 3-4 years at AAA, he could be a pretty good players.

Just funning with ya, kevin. I'd like Pedroia to be the starter this year. What I really wanted, though, was for him to start at SS and to have Giles at 2B.

6. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: December 12, 2006 at 03:16 AM (#2258487)

Pedroia blows at SS though.

7. Darren

Posted: December 12, 2006 at 03:17 AM (#2258488)

Actually, the whole Giles question is kind of silly--the Sox have their starters already and they don't have much more money. What other non-tender issues do you all think the Sox will face?

8. Darren

Posted: December 12, 2006 at 03:18 AM (#2258490)

Pedroia blows at SS though.

He does? How many times have you seen him play there?

9. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: December 12, 2006 at 03:24 AM (#2258494)

He does? How many times have you seen him play there?

Enough to know that he's better at as a 2B, and that he's worse than Alex Gonzalez.

10. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: December 12, 2006 at 03:31 AM (#2258504)

Giles was a -10 by ZR last year, pretty average in '05, and pretty bad in '04. I think there's a good chance that Pedroia would make up in the field much of the difference in batting.

And there's a larger issue here. Pedroia is a very valuable commodity for hte Red Sox, a guy who can play major league baseball for really cheap, and has at least all-star upside. They have to make a plan and stick with it, and they have to show they're committed to him and that they believe in him (unless they don't believe in him, in which case they shoulda made that clear way before the non-tender deadline).

Giles makes no sense to me as a pick-up for the Sox.

I am interested in the possibility of a mediocre-to-failed starter as a closing option. Always liked Joel Pineiro, though I have to think the Mariners would recognize his value in this market - and if not the Mariners, someone else will.

11. Xander Posted: December 12, 2006 at 03:31 AM (#2258505)

Pedroia over Giles.

12. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: December 12, 2006 at 03:36 AM (#2258511)

Guys, why are you guys even having this discussion? Don't you know? Giles is signing with the Mets and leading the world in runs scored next year.

13. Darren

Posted: December 12, 2006 at 03:36 AM (#2258513)

Darren, are you paying attention?

No.

14. The Answer to the TWolves (GMoney) Posted: December 12, 2006 at 03:37 AM (#2258515)

I still don't understand how the Braves couldn't get something for Giles before they have to non-tender him. I'm guessing it's just rumors mainly from writers of the Mets, Red Sox, Padres or other teams that want Giles.

15. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: December 12, 2006 at 03:38 AM (#2258516)

OK. He's a better secondbaseman than a SS. Tell me again how that translates that he blows at SS?

BECAUSE I SAW HIM AND his throwing windup suggests that his arm isn't strong enough for SS.

16. The Answer to the TWolves (GMoney) Posted: December 12, 2006 at 03:42 AM (#2258522)

So he throws like Eckstein?

17. Darren

Posted: December 12, 2006 at 03:45 AM (#2258524)

They have to make a plan and stick with it, and they have to show they're committed to him and that they believe in him (unless they don't believe in him, in which case they shoulda made that clear way before the non-tender deadline).

Actually, I think they are trying to send the opposite message. I remember reading that they did not want to hand him the job this year because they thought he came in out of shape last year. I think they want to challenge him and make him earn his spot against other competition. From the little I know about his personality, I think he'll respond well.

And for crying out loud, didn't anyone read my post 6 or 8? Pedroia should start and the Giles idea is a bit silly! How many times must I say it?

18. Mister High Standards Posted: December 12, 2006 at 03:55 AM (#2258537)

Then why did you start the nonsense if you thought it was silly.

My god man, be consitent.

Julio Lugo is pretty damn underrated. I don't know how well he will retain his value ofver the life of his contract, but for the next couple years him at 8m is a damn good buy in terms of $ efficency and in terms of actual value to the RedSox.

He is a better player than Renteria was when he signed.

19. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 12, 2006 at 03:58 AM (#2258548)

"Julio Lugo is pretty damn underrated. I don't know how well he will retain his value ofver the life of his contract, but for the next couple years him at 8m is a damn good buy in terms of $ efficency and in terms of actual value to the RedSox.

He is a better player than Renteria was when he signed."

Oh where the hell have you been? I've been fighting this battle uphill for the last two weeks, it woulda been nice to know SOMEONE agreed with me.

20. Mister High Standards Posted: December 12, 2006 at 04:02 AM (#2258553)

You're a Yankee fan with bad music taste, why would I listen to a word you said?

Plus I didn't know, until I looked at the last 2 years PM-SLWTS.

21. Darren

Posted: December 12, 2006 at 04:02 AM (#2258555)

Then why did you start the nonsense if you thought it was silly.

Because I'm not perfect like you.

Oh where the hell have you been? I've been fighting this battle uphill for the last two weeks, it woulda been nice to know SOMEONE agreed with me.

Eric M. Van agrees with you and then some. He projects Lugo at .311 / .378 / .456. That's his conservative projection.

22. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 12, 2006 at 04:04 AM (#2258556)

"You're a Yankee fan with bad music taste, why would I listen to a word you said?"

Well, you listened to those...My god man, be consistent.

23. Mister High Standards Posted: December 12, 2006 at 04:06 AM (#2258561)

Because I'm not perfect like you.

My god I wish. I'm an #######, who has far too little patience - that by itself makes me far from perfect. Couple that with knowing a heck of a lot less about baseball than a bunch of posters here (not you) makes my fallibility a slam dunk.

Eric M. Van agrees with

Eric Van is consistently wrong more than anyone else I ever met. Don't shake my confidence like that. btw: Eric is a nice guy, I've enjoyed our chats. With that said he is the definition of bad sabrmetrics.

24. Mister High Standards Posted: December 12, 2006 at 04:09 AM (#2258567)

Well, you listened to those..

I didn't listen to anything. I read your opinion and realize you know nothing about quality music. Much like, when I read Gaelen or Lar I realize they know nothing about baseball.

25. Darren

Posted: December 12, 2006 at 04:10 AM (#2258568)

I think your standards are too high.

26. Mister High Standards Posted: December 12, 2006 at 04:14 AM (#2258572)

Gleeman agrees with you. Lets pound some bud.

My brain is just turned to ####.

27. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 12, 2006 at 04:16 AM (#2258574)

"I read your opinion and realize you know nothing about quality music. Much like, when I read Gaelen or Lar I realize they know nothing about baseball."

I think I like your posts so much because you're like Dr. Cox on Scrubs for BBTF.

28. Mister High Standards Posted: December 12, 2006 at 04:20 AM (#2258575)

No taste in TV too? Wow.

29. Darren

Posted: December 12, 2006 at 04:32 AM (#2258577)

That's very clever. How's that working out for you?

30. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: December 12, 2006 at 07:59 AM (#2258678)

OK. He's a better secondbaseman than a SS. Tell me again how that translates that he blows at SS?

He's not super good at 2B either.

Pedroia is not some sort of defensive genius.

I don't knowwhat you guys are smoking, but if you think Pedroia is good enough defenisvely playing SS for an entire season without hurting us, then you're a tool.

31. Mister High Standards Posted: December 12, 2006 at 03:11 PM (#2258805)

but if you think Pedroia is good enough defenisvely playing SS for an entire season without hurting us, then you're a tool.

Shouldn't you be calling someone a racist or something, rather than talking about baseball? Specificly calling someone a tool, who likely has actually seen the guy play a number of times?

32. Famous Original Joe C Posted: December 12, 2006 at 03:13 PM (#2258808)

I don't knowwhat you guys are smoking, but if you think Pedroia is good enough defenisvely playing SS for an entire season without hurting us, then you're a tool.

You do know he was NCAA defensive player of the year in 2003? I'm not saying that this would make him a top notch or even good SS in the Major Leagues, but I bet he'd be closer to average than awful.

33. covelli chris p Posted: December 12, 2006 at 03:16 PM (#2258813)

Shouldn't you be calling someone a racist or something, rather than talking about baseball? Specificly calling someone a tool, who likely has actually seen the guy play a number of times?

it's cuz he's white.

34. Josh Posted: December 12, 2006 at 04:18 PM (#2258883)

Can't we just sign Giles and trade Pedroira for David Wright? I know, he'd have a tough time playing with Youks and Lowell, but one of them could play close on off days.

35. Josh Posted: December 12, 2006 at 04:18 PM (#2258885)

Can't we just sign Giles and trade Pedroira for David Wright? I know, he'd have a tough time playing with Youks and Lowell, but one of them could close on off days.

36. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: December 12, 2006 at 04:18 PM (#2258886)

Specificly calling someone a tool, who likely has actually seen the guy play a number of times?

And I haven't? Pedroia will not be a good MLB SS. He will be a decent MLB 2B. Unless you want him to become some sort of never-ending defensive joke like Derek Jeter, don't put him there.

it's cuz he's white.

It's true that we wouldn't be having this conversation if we were bringing in Tsuyoshi Nishioka.

37. covelli chris p Posted: December 12, 2006 at 04:32 PM (#2258906)

It's true that we wouldn't be having this conversation if we were bringing in Tsuyoshi Nishioka.

alex cora would hit better than him.

38. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee Posted: December 12, 2006 at 04:47 PM (#2258934)

I saw Pedroia play SS a few times at Pawtucket, and I'd have to agree that his arm isn't great for SS. He isn't going to make those jump-throws on slow grounders going to his right, but I'm not sure David Eckstein can make those kinds of plays either, and he seems to do ok. Pedroia's range and instincts seemed fine in the brief time that I watched him, but nothing amazing. He did make some nice plays going to his left, where his arm isn't as much of an issue. I don't think he'd kill you at SS for a few games, but I'm glad they have a better defensive SS in Lugo.

Maybe once he's up for good for a little while they could try subbing him in at SS to see if he can handle it.

39. kthejoker Posted: December 12, 2006 at 05:38 PM (#2258996)

Eric M. Van agrees with you and then some. He projects Lugo at .311 / .378 / .456. That's his conservative projection.

Seriously?

Lugo's Career Line: .277 / .340 / .402
Lugo's (Cherry Picked) Seasonal Highs: .295 / .362 / .431

Career OPS+: 92

40. John M. Perkins Posted: December 12, 2006 at 07:12 PM (#2259109)

Most of the rumors seem to coming out of Atlanta.
There's no money. Couldn't offer for Glavine, and they need to clear budget room for salary increases on their keepers. It's almost rotoball here. They don't have room for a $5M Giles, and seemingly no-one else thinks he's worth $5M plus a player in return.

The BoSox could probably get Giles straight up for a B prospect.

OTOH, Littlefield really wants LaRoche and the Braves want Gonzalez. So a Castillo/Giles add on with maybe more names seems good.

41. Russlan is not Russian Posted: December 12, 2006 at 07:14 PM (#2259111)

He projects Lugo at .311 / .378 / .456. That's his conservative projection.

Is he using a CFBPS?

42. PooNani Posted: December 12, 2006 at 07:20 PM (#2259120)

I'm shocked that Eric Van's projection is that rosy!

43. Garth found his way to daylight Posted: December 12, 2006 at 11:14 PM (#2259334)

I like Scrubs quite a bit.

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